Helix output completely cuts off when using a lot of reverbs.

[mareiou]

I have been experiencing a problem with some of my helix patches. If i try to simulate an amp breaking with some boost plus a two or more reverb block, after playing it for ~3 - ~5 minutes I hear that the output of my headphones and/or speakers start cracking, like if there was a lot of static and then suddenly the sound cuts off completely. To "fix" this I have to exit the patch and then enter it again. The problem will still happen after a couple of minutes playing it.

 

I notice that it only happens when I am strumming the guitar and really pushing the amp model in the patch. I have contacted line 6 and they haven been able to replicate the issue. I was wondering if people in the forum can give it a try and tell me if they see the problem and can find a root cause for it.

 

Please make sure when you test the patch that:

LA compressor is on

volume pedal is on

tubescreamer pedal is on

the two amps in parallel are on

double tank reverb is on

 

 

Patch with problem double tank reverb.hlx

[datacommando]

3 hours ago, mareiou said:

 

Patch with problem double tank reverb.hlx

 

 

Hi mareiou,

 

Well, that was an experience that I don't want to try again.

 

I downloaded your "Patch with problem double tank reverb.hlx" and loaded it into a blank "New Preset" slot in HX Edit where it came up as "Worship 1" and I sent that to my Helix floor unit. It all seemed to be perfect normal and without changing anything in the settings proceeded to strum for a while. Not exactly the way that I would have set up a patch, but hey, each to their own. Anyhow after about 7 or 8 minutes and for no apparent reason, my left hand side monitor simply stopped putting out sound. About 30 seconds later there was a rather loud thump sound through my right hand Tannoy - then silence! For one horrific moment I though my whole monitor system was fried! Luckily, by switching back to one of my regular daily use patches everything returned to how it should be and normal service was  resumed.

 

Now none of this matches the cracking, static type of noise that you have described as the problem, but now it gets very weird. While typing this reply I was listening to my iTune playlist through the Helix and I had switched back to your patch so that I might check some of your amp and FX settings. Guess what? Yep, while typing, there was a loud crack through the monitors followed by total silence! It seems that just having the preset selected for a short time was enough for it to shut down my audio playback system with an heart stopping thud. Considering I had a quintuple Coronary Artery Bypass Graft operation a few years back it is something I can do without.  O.K. I have now disconnected my Tannoys and am about to check out  some of your settings.

 

First up the LA Studio Comp: - (This has some of the strangest settings that I have ever encountered)

Peak Reduc 2.0

Gain 2.9

Type Compress

Emphasis 9.1

Mix 57%

Level +0.6dB

 

Followed by a Simple EQ which seems to be doing nothing other than moving the high gain from 0 to 0.1dB

 

Then these seem fairly regular

Tube Screamer: Gain 5.2 Tone 9 Level 6.3 

Minotaur: Gain 4.2 Tone 5.3 Level 6.0

Volume Pedal 0 - 100%

 

Then 2 amps

Jazz Rivet and a US Double Nrm which are both not too far off stock settings (could possible benefit with high and low cuts on the cabinets)

 

Then a PlastiChorus not too far off stock setting but set for Vibrato rather than Chorus - maybe benefit from increased headroom?

 

At the end there are 3 Delay blocks and 3 Reverb blocks which a first glance seem average.

 

So, after all that I am no wiser as to why this patch suddenly and very frighteningly cuts out all audio. It doesn't appear to be a DSP issue as the only options that are "greyed out" are for amps and cabs and there are already 2 in the signal path. As noted previously the sudden demise of my monitoring system is something I would rather do without - therefore the patch is about to be erased from my system. If anyone else would care to offer an opinion please don't say that you didn't know this thing is possessed.

 

Sorry I cannot offer any solution to this other than you may need to consider reading up on studio compression.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[Kilrahi]

Wow . . . in my experience this equates to something outputting from the Helix is overloading the audio system but .  .  .

 

in this case . . . why?

 

It's like mareiou discovered the haunted patch from hell. Anyone else want to take a shot at this preset of perdition?

 

You say Line 6 tried this preset and had no problems?

[mareiou]

@Kilrahi I sent it to the folks of line 6 but they said they were not able to replicate the problem. I thought it was something i was the only one able to see it but seems now that is just more than me :)

[cruisinon2]

This is precisely why I don't download anything from random strangers on a forum... and it's clearly why L6 felt the need to post that "warning about download tones" thread that adorns the top of the forum. 

[johnnyfi0718]

I am friends with Mario. I convinced him to buy the Helix. I feel bad he has had all these issues. I tried to help him debug this patch. I thought it might be the Double Tank reverb block. Doesn’t make any sense really. 

 

While it’s not showing as a DSP overload, i am guessing this is a memory taxing combination. A lot of memory intensive blocks. Possible the development team didn’t test this type of memory load. Guessing they didn’t anticipate this. 

[phil_m]

39 minutes ago, johnnyfi0718 said:

I am friends with Mario. I convinced him to buy the Helix. I feel bad he has had all these issues. I tried to help him debug this patch. I thought it might be the Double Tank reverb block. Doesn’t make any sense really. 

 

While it’s not showing as a DSP overload, i am guessing this is a memory taxing combination. A lot of memory intensive blocks. Possible the development team didn’t test this type of memory load. Guessing they didn’t anticipate this. 

 

It's probably just a corrupted patch... It can happen sometimes. I've had a few patches that I've had to delete because they got corrupted. It's usually best to overwrite them and start from scratch.

[Kilrahi]

Easy enough to test. Recreate the exact settings in a new patch.

[datacommando]

7 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

It's probably just a corrupted patch... It can happen sometimes. I've had a few patches that I've had to delete because they got corrupted. It's usually best to overwrite them and start from scratch.

 

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Seems like something got screwed up in this one and it’s a very odd set up. First block is an LA Studio comp with the most strange settings, I can’t think of any reason for that. Then an EQ that is essentially doing nothing. A Minotaur and a TS  into a Jazz Chorus - uh? Well, each to their own, but not for me. File under plain weird.

 

 

5 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

Easy enough to test. Recreate the exact settings in a new patch.

 

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

I’m glad you mentioned that, because that is exactly what I intend to do when I get back in the studio later today. It will need some blocks to be moved around or dropped. Example - delete the EQ block for the time being as it’s not contributing anything. Put the LA comp after the amps, as it would be in a real world set up (in the control room). Then check out those multi delay and verbs. Then we may be able to hear if we are getting rid of that audio thump and silence. I can only think of that as being some sort of overload protection kicking in, but I have never encountered it before with Helix. I’m really glad I wasn’t using headphones when that patch gave up - damn scary!

 

[datacommando]

8 hours ago, johnnyfi0718 said:

I am friends with Mario. I convinced him to buy the Helix. I feel bad he has had all these issues. I tried to help him debug this patch. I thought it might be the Double Tank reverb block. Doesn’t make any sense really. 

 

While it’s not showing as a DSP overload, i am guessing this is a memory taxing combination. A lot of memory intensive blocks. Possible the development team didn’t test this type of memory load. Guessing they didn’t anticipate this. 

 

Hi johnnyfi0718,

 

Glad to hear that you convinced Mario to join the rest of us Helix users.

 

As for the flakey patch , well maybe we can put this one down to inexperience and throwing everything into one preset.

 

I am am going to take another look at it and try a little debugging.

 

It’s possible that the patch has given the Helix too much to chew on and something got stuck in it’s throat.

 

Sometimes less is more.

 

Have fun.

[codamedia]

Based on what I am reading here, there is no way I am loading this into my Helix.... but I did load it into Helix Native where I can monitor the CPU/RAM usage closely. 

 

On the PC it took 10 minutes to reach death... just sitting idle, with the patch loaded, nothing changed, and nothing played through it. Everything the OP asked to be on was on, and the "mod/chorus echo" is also on when the patch is loaded so I left it on.

1. Ram usage did not increase
2. CPU usage did not increase
3. The volume increased slowly, but exponentially. The louder the volume got, the faster it increased until it reaches a state of hard clipping and the audio completely cuts out. This is the cause of the problem!

 

Repeating the TEST

This time, as the volume was reaching a clipping state I tried the following....

• Turning effects off made no difference...
• *** Removing the Double Tank Reverb stopped the problem immediately
• Repeating the test with a new instance of the Double Tank (with same settings) has the exact same results
• First conclusion.... the problem likely lays within the Double Tank Reverb

< at this point I did a long list of tests and experiments >

 

This is what I have found....

 

Focusing on the reverb.... the decay setting of 10 on the Double Tank Reverb Block appears to be the problem.

Once I get the levels on the meters to the point of exploding if I lower the decay setting a little (even to 9) it relieves the pressure. It seems that when it is fed enough signal (even just noise from the effects and amps before it) the reverb is building up internally. It gets to a point where even eliminating any input can't help it any longer.  (note: the more input you feed it, the faster the problem occurs. That is why it takes longer when there is no input, than it might when you are playing through it)

 

Here is where it gets really odd. Every meter in my DAW is showing the build up (including the master output in my DAW) and once it goes past it's limit all audio is shut down. BUT - the meters on my console (external) don't show the volume increasing at all, and I don't hear it increasing. This problem is completely in the digital realm, but does not appear as audio externally. There is the problem.... you cannot hear it building up, It just reaches it's breaking point and ends with a sizzle/crash/bang leaving you wondering what just happened. On the Helix where there are no meters, you would never know this is coming. 

 

This problem doesn't seem to exist with the other two reverbs in this patch... only with the Double Tank. Although I believe this is a bug that should be fixed, the simple solution is to turn down the decay setting on the double tank... even just a little. 

 

 

[Kilrahi]

Knowing all this, is there a way to get Line 6 to look deeper into the problem?

 

Do they have a bug report like they do new ideas?

 

He reported it and they said they couldn't repeat it which sounds bonkers considering how easily everyone else has repeated it.

[codamedia]

23 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

He reported it and they said they couldn't repeat it which sounds bonkers considering how easily everyone else has repeated it.

 

I think there is more at play... we were given a dead patch to work with, but did he actually deliver that same patch to Line 6 or just tell them he was having a problem with a vague description. 

 

I didn't have a problem with the patch until I left it alone for 20 minutes... came back and saw the meters in the red. On the next test for the first 5 - 7 minutes it looked normal, then started to show slowly. 

 

Under normal circumstances this problem would likely never show itself. I don't know anyone that turns the "DECAY TIME TO 10" on a Reverb then leaves it there for 5 - 10 minutes until the problem reveals itself. Unless Line 6 is given explicit instructions of how to reproduce the problem, I don't think they would find it! Stock settings (ie: simply inserting a double tank) would NOT have revealed this problem. 

 

23 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Do they have a bug report like they do new ideas?

 

The simple ticket system has always worked fine for me... I find Line 6 to be very receptive to potential bug reports.

[datacommando]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:28 PM, codamedia said:

Based on what I am reading here, there is no way I am loading this into my Helix.... but I did load it into Helix Native where I can monitor the CPU/RAM usage closely. 

 

On the PC it took 10 minutes to reach death... just sitting idle, with the patch loaded, nothing changed, and nothing played through it. Everything the OP asked to be on was on, and the "mod/chorus echo" is also on when the patch is loaded so I left it on.

1. Ram usage did not increase
2. CPU usage did not increase
3. The volume increased slowly, but exponentially. The louder the volume got, the faster it increased until it reaches a state of hard clipping and the audio completely cuts out. This is the cause of the problem!

 

Repeating the TEST

This time, as the volume was reaching a clipping state I tried the following....

• Turning effects off made no difference...
• *** Removing the Double Tank Reverb stopped the problem immediately
• Repeating the test with a new instance of the Double Tank (with same settings) has the exact same results
• First conclusion.... the problem likely lays within the Double Tank Reverb

< at this point I did a long list of tests and experiments >

 

This is what I have found....

 

Focusing on the reverb.... the decay setting of 10 on the Double Tank Reverb Block appears to be the problem.

Once I get the levels on the meters to the point of exploding if I lower the decay setting a little (even to 9) it relieves the pressure. It seems that when it is fed enough signal (even just noise from the effects and amps before it) the reverb is building up internally. It gets to a point where even eliminating any input can't help it any longer.  (note: the more input you feed it, the faster the problem occurs. That is why it takes longer when there is no input, than it might when you are playing through it)

 

Here is where it gets really odd. Every meter in my DAW is showing the build up (including the master output in my DAW) and once it goes past it's limit all audio is shut down. BUT - the meters on my console (external) don't show the volume increasing at all, and I don't hear it increasing. This problem is completely in the digital realm, but does not appear as audio externally. There is the problem.... you cannot hear it building up, It just reaches it's breaking point and ends with a sizzle/crash/bang leaving you wondering what just happened. On the Helix where there are no meters, you would never know this is coming. 

 

This problem doesn't seem to exist with the other two reverbs in this patch... only with the Double Tank. Although I believe this is a bug that should be fixed, the simple solution is to turn down the decay setting on the double tank... even just a little. 

 

 

 

Hi codamedia, and fellow Helix mystery fans,

 

This is what I have found....

 

I took the original supplied preset and decided to rework the thing to see what would happen.

 

This is what I rejigged from the patch. I stuck the volume pedal out front then I ditched the EQ which was doing nothing. Likewise the Tube Screamer which was just slamming the Minotaur into the 2 amps. Overdriving the clean JazzC seemed a bit pointless and I moved the Minotaur to overdrive the US Double then both amps into the delays/reverbs etc.

 

Anyhow, when I though about maybe reinstating the 808 I went to check and lo and behold no DSP available for the Screamer. In fact what limited processing power was left was a couple of tremolo units an EQ and a Deluxe comp. There must have been a bug in the original preset where he had managed to shoehorn those extra bits in.  No matter, this is what I came up with.

 

 

 

Here is where it gets really odd.

When this patch is selected and an audio track is opened in Logic, the channel strip meters show a signal is present. Uh? I thought maybe some strange vibrations were possibly rattling my guitar in it's stand. Erm, no - it wasn't that, but I could hear a strange rattling and bubbling noise being emitted from the monitors. It was quiet so I cranked it up - whoa - that's weird. I thought that it must have been the Double Tank Reverb thing that you have mentioned, except when I re-worked the patch I rolled off the decay setting to 7.5. O.K. I thought I would simply hit the Double Tank foot switch and turn it off. Nope that didn't work. Then I hit the switch for the US Twin and away it went. So that must be another avenue to check out for mysterious goings on.

 

It was a bit difficult to capture the strange audio from nowhere but with the help of Audio HiJack and a gain boost in Audacity I captured this 30 sec clip.

 

If anyone is interested - the thing sounds like this.

 

 

 

Any further clues would be nice.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by datacommando
Deleted large audio files

[Kilrahi]

9 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi codamedia, and fellow Helix mystery fans,

 

This is what I have found....

 

I took the original supplied preset and decided to rework the thing to see what would happen.

 

This is what I rejigged from the patch. I stuck the volume pedal out front then I ditched the EQ which was doing nothing. Likewise the Tube Screamer which was just slamming the Minotaur into the 2 amps. Overdriving the clean JazzC seemed a bit pointless and I moved the Minotaur to overdrive the US Double then both amps into the delays/reverbs etc.

 

Anyhow, when I though about maybe reinstating the 808 I went to check and lo and behold no DSP available for the Screamer. In fact what limited processing power was left was a couple of tremolo units an EQ and a Deluxe comp. There must have been a bug in the original preset where he had managed to shoehorn those extra bits in.  No matter, this is what I came up with.

 

Mareiou.hlx

 

Here is where it gets really odd.

When this patch is selected and an audio track is opened in Logic, the channel strip meters show a signal is present. Uh? I thought maybe some strange vibrations were possibly rattling my guitar in it's stand. Erm, no - it wasn't that, but I could hear a strange rattling and bubbling noise being emitted from the monitors. It was quiet so I cranked it up - whoa - that's weird. I thought that it must have been the Double Tank Reverb thing that you have mentioned, except when I re-worked the patch I rolled off the decay setting to 7.5. O.K. I thought I would simply hit the Double Tank foot switch and turn it off. Nope that didn't work. Then I hit the switch for the US Twin and away it went. So that must be another avenue to check out for mysterious goings on.

 

It was a bit difficult to capture the strange audio from nowhere but with the help of Audio HiJack and a gain boost in Audacity I captured this 30 sec clip.

 

If anyone is interested - the thing sounds like this.

 

Strange Noise.mp3

 

Any further clues would be nice.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow . . . it's like a high def performance of someone with the runs, complete with high quality Helix effects delay and reverb processing!

 

Does it still eventually blow the sound to smithereens? 

[datacommando]

2 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Wow . . . it's like a high def performance of someone with the runs, complete with high quality Helix effects delay and reverb processing!

 

Does it still eventually blow the sound to smithereens? 

 

 

Ha, ha, ha - yeah it's that bad and I didn't hang around for a total destruction test - I will let someone else do the honours. Never come across anything like this one before!

[phil_m]

16 minutes ago, datacommando said:

If anyone is interested - the thing sounds like this.

 

Strange Noise.mp3

 

Any further clues would be nice.

 

 

That might be the coolest sound I've ever heard from the Helix...

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

That might be the coolest sound I've ever heard from the Helix...

 

Yep, it’s the voice of Helix. I always knew it was some sort of alien technology. 

 

This thing knows what we’re thinking!

[codamedia]

4 hours ago, datacommando said:

Anyhow, when I though about maybe reinstating the 808 I went to check and lo and behold no DSP available for the Screamer. In fact what limited processing power was left was a couple of tremolo units an EQ and a Deluxe comp.

 

That's bizarre.... did you keep the reverbs on the 2nd path... separate from the amps to spread out the DSP usage?

EDIT TO ADD: I finally got a moment to  open Helix Native and my LT and was able to re-create that patch from scratch without any DSP issues on both. 

 

4 hours ago, datacommando said:

Then I hit the switch for the US Twin and away it went. So that must be another avenue to check out for mysterious goings on.

 

It was a bit difficult to capture the strange audio from nowhere but with the help of Audio HiJack and a gain boost in Audacity I captured this 30 sec clip.

If anyone is interested - the thing sounds like this.

 

Strange Noise.mp3

 

That is a strange sound... I actually found some inconsistency with the "twin amp" in the patch, but I couldn't reproduce it test to test so I didn't dig deeper. The Double Tank Reverb would act up as described with every test so I concentrated on that.

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

That's bizarre.... did you keep the reverbs on the 2nd path... separate from the amps to spread out the DSP usage?

EDIT TO ADD: I finally got a moment to  open Helix Native and my LT and was able to re-create that patch from scratch without any DSP issues on both. 

 

 

That is a strange sound... I actually found some inconsistency with the "twin amp" in the patch, but I couldn't reproduce it test to test so I didn't dig deeper. The Double Tank Reverb would act up as described with every test so I concentrated on that.

 

Hi,

 

Re: the second path layout of blocks remained the same as the original. The only changes made to each Delay/Reverb was the trails were turned on and  the mix lowered a small amount, which I thought might help. Following your observations, the big change was to lower the Double Tank decay from 10 to 7.5. I mistakenly thought that should fix the “weird almost silent feedback” thing.

 

NOTE: It could be that the Helix ran out of muscle because I went to add the TS808 back into the top path. Although that would not explain why you still had enough DSP on your LT. I do see why HX Native doesn’t have any issues with processor power, as that comes from the host computer that it is running on.

 

In theory, there was less going on the first path. The Jazz Rivet and US Double Nrm are essentially standard presets, other than the high and low cuts that I made to the cabs. After you had mentioned the Double Tank maybe the problem block, I was surprised that after noticing the DAW channel strip flickering as if a signal was present, when the DT Rev was switched off it seemed to get stronger, but turning off the US Double stopped it.

 

if you would like to investigate further you can find my reworked patch attached in the earlier post above (mareiou.hlx)

I don’t think you will need a radiation suit, but be cautious.

 

Regards

[codamedia]

12 hours ago, datacommando said:

I do see why HX Native doesn’t have any issues with processor power, as that comes from the host computer that it is running on.

 

As I understand it, Helix Native puts copies the limits of the hardware at this time so you can exchange patches without issues. The 2.8 update will give the option of overriding this if you want, but right now it mimics the DSP limits. 

 

I loaded up YOUR patch this morning in Helix Native.... then tried to recreate it on my LT

1. The DSP issue you face is because you loaded the MINOTAUR as a stereo effect rather than mono. If you change that to mono the TS808 can easily be loaded. With the placement you have, I don't see any benefit to loading it as a stereo effect. The OP's patch on the top row was all MONO effects. 
2. The strange sound you hear is actually the "Partical Verb" at the end of your chain. It is creating/modulating the sounds that it is being fed. 
3. The DOUBLE VERB NRM amp is feeding it the LOW HUM to get it moving. If you turn the HUM down in the DOUBLE VERB NRM the amp no longer creates a problem... but the partical verb is still loaded and waiting for something :) 

 

What you uncovered is reverb regeneration... the problem was locating the source of the input... in this case, hum. 

The OPs problem is different. The regeneration is not audible... it just builds up slowly & silently until it crashes the audio engine

 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

As I understand it, Helix Native puts copies the limits of the hardware at this time so you can exchange patches without issues. The 2.8 update will give the option of overriding this if you want, but right now it mimics the DSP limits. 

 

I loaded up YOUR patch this morning in Helix Native.... then tried to recreate it on my LT

1. The DSP issue you face is because you loaded the MINOTAUR as a stereo effect rather than mono. If you change that to mono the TS808 can easily be loaded. With the placement you have, I don't see any benefit to loading it as a stereo effect. The OP's patch on the top row was all MONO effects. 
2. The strange sound you hear is actually the "Partical Verb" at the end of your chain. It is creating/modulating the sounds that it is being fed. 
3. The DOUBLE VERB NRM amp is feeding it the LOW HUM to get it moving. If you turn the HUM down in the DOUBLE VERB NRM the amp no longer creates a problem... but the partical verb is still loaded and waiting for something :) 

 

What you uncovered is reverb regeneration... the problem was locating the source of the input... in this case, hum. 

The OPs problem is different. The regeneration is not audible... it just builds up slowly & silently until it crashes the audio engine

 

 

You are correct about the limitations of HX Native in its current form - that’s my misunderstanding and confusing it with what I had read about the future update. Oops!

 

Doh! Now a second goof - a stereo overdrive! - never really felt a need for one of those. Once again, that was completely my mistake, I had noted that the OP’s (Mario) signal chain was all mono. Put that down to me being clumsy with the joystick!

 

And finally it appears that you have discovered what I suspected and was intending to check out later today - the Particle Verb. I have had that produce some very odd audio effects before - especially when the thing is set on anything other than stable. Although I was unaware of the hum from the amp, I have usually managed to tame the particle thing with the built in noise gate. Also, I know this is a legacy reverb, but I think it reacts in a slightly different way to how I recall it did on my POD HD500. It may have a little more “energy”.

 

Note: You may be interested in this post that I have just uncovered - it’s from a couple of years back, and it seems the poster never even got a single response.

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/23913-particle-verb-low-frequency-noise/

 

Thanks for your time in checking this stuff out.

 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, datacommando said:

Note: You may be interested in this post that I have just uncovered - it’s from a couple of years back, and it seems the poster never even got a single response.

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/23913-particle-verb-low-frequency-noise/

 

I just tested this persons problem and I believe it is directly related to the hum of the amp like yours was. 

1. I inserted a DOUBLE VERB NRM amp.
2. I set the partical verb to 100% dwell, 100% mix and "stable" position and trails on
3. I set the amp HUM to 0
   • Faded in a chord
   • Turned off the reverb
   • RESULT: The verb hung forever with a nice clean spacious chord. I could play over top without any additional low end
4. I set the amp HUM to default of 5
   • Even before I faded in the chord I could hear a low end hum
   • Faded in a chord (low end still increasing)
   • Turned off the reverb
   • RESULT: The low end did not get worse once the reverb was turned off, but it was over powering and would fluctuate in volume... appearing at times to get worse.  

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, codamedia said:

 

I just tested this persons problem and I believe it is directly related to the hum of the amp like yours was. 

1. I inserted a DOUBLE VERB NRM amp.
2. I set the partical verb to 100% dwell, 100% mix and "stable" position and trails on
3. I set the amp HUM to 0
   • Faded in a chord
   • Turned off the reverb
   • RESULT: The verb hung forever with a nice clean spacious chord. I could play over top without any additional low end
4. I set the amp HUM to default of 5
   • Even before I faded in the chord I could hear a low end hum
   • Faded in a chord (low end still increasing)
   • Turned off the reverb
   • RESULT: The low end did not get worse once the reverb was turned off, but it was over powering and would fluctuate in volume... appearing at times to get worse.  

 

Sir, I salute you - you are an absolute star.

 

I would never have thought that the virtual "hum" from the amp model would create such a phenomenon. It must be a digital thing because I don't recall the real world Fender Twin having a constantly rumbling reverb problem.

 

It's a shame that the poster (metalpr) of the that other thread didn't mention what amp model he was using when he encountered his low end rumble/feedback problem? It would have been interesting to know if this is only related to the Line 6 US Double Nrm model or many more. I may just have to try a few at random and find out.

 

It's also a shame that we haven't heard anything  more from our Original Poster "mariou" or his friend "johnnyfi0718".

 

It would be nice to know if and when an issue has been resolve by forum users.

 

Once again, many thanks for taking time to investigate. Very interesting stuff.

[Kilrahi]

This whole post has convinced me that this forum needs a weekly segment called, "Unsolved Helix Mysteries." 

 

Complete with a creepy theme song. 

[arislaf]

Also the fender champ has increased ripple by its own, need to nullify it to make it sound normal.

[datacommando]

20 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

This whole post has convinced me that this forum needs a weekly segment called, "Unsolved Helix Mysteries." 

 

Complete with a creepy theme song. 

 

 

You're welcome to put the "Helix Twilight Zone" theme together using the "Strange Noise" clip a sample for the backing track. - go for it!

 

9 hours ago, arislaf said:

Also the fender champ has increased ripple by its own, need to nullify it to make it sound normal.

 

Hi arislaf,

 

I didn't know about the ripple effect in the US Small Tweed or that it was an issue -  I just loaded it up and you are correct. When it's turned up it goes crazy, although it is actually mentioned in the Helix Owner's Manual.

 

On page 27, under the section named "Common Amp Settings" it states for Hum and Ripple - "Controls how much heater hum and AC ripple interacts with your tone. At higher settings, things get freaky." Damn right they do.

 

These effects of ripple and hum are also noted on the helixhelp website where there is a link to an article about "The Strange Effects of AC Ripple on a Class AB Power Amp".  One for the mad scientists to read I think.

https://helixhelp.com/models/amps/

It appears that a lot of this stuff is already known by Line 6, I mean they even have all those extra knobs for some amps – "If an amp has a small number of knobs, then we will invent the knobs in a way that makes the most sense to us." Seems reasonable - although sometime I forget!

 

 

 

Also, must say thanks to Jason Shimkoski who put together the helixhelp.com site - an amazing resource -  sometime I forget that it's there!