DT25 Bricked - Any more ideas other than already on the forum to date ?

[Joeleft]

Hi

I have tried to update my DT25 to the ver 2 firmware.

Before this the amp worked perfectly well.

 

The update failed - Error 8000000A, which seems not uncommon judging by the forum and other places.

The current firmware (as detailed on L6 Monkey) is now "This item is installed but its version cannot be determined".

 

The amp now does not work. Can turn it on, and most of the lights are on, but cannot select channel A or B (light indicating B is lit), cannot select I, II, III or IV (none are lit), Pentode and Triode are both lit, Low Volume is lit regardless of where the switch is set and cannot select Class A/B or Class A (neither are lit).

 

I have logged and updated a ticket with Line 6 but so far to no avail - the suggestions have made no difference (probably all detailed somewhere on this forum previously from what I've seen).

The three day turn around is frustrating to say the least, with "fixes" that don't work.

 

I have tried to update with both Mac using the M Audio Uno (purchased on L6 recommendation to sort this problem), and on good spec modern W10 PC using the same interface plus my L6 Pod 500X and my Steinberg UR242 interfaces. Have tried with the amp in normal and safe modes.

As some on the forum have said they had the same problem, but some seem to have made it work after many attempts, I have tried MANY times so far.

 

None of these things made any difference and I currently have a "brick " of an amp.

 

Does anyone have any other suggestions please?

Thank you :-)

 

[psarkissian]

Have you tried turning off security settings on your computer, Flash update the amp,

then turn the computer security back on to what you had it at.

 

Undefined error and not a MIDI time out,... might be a memory thing, buffer loading rate or something.

 

[Joeleft]

17 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

Have you tried turning off security settings on your computer, Flash update the amp,

then turn the computer security back on to what you had it at.

 

Undefined error and not a MIDI time out,... might be a memory thing, buffer loading rate or something.

 

Hi.

Thank you for this.

Have just tried your suggestion.

Made no difference :-(

[phil_m]

Did you try powering it up in Safe Mode? Hold the channel select switch down to 'Channel B' and power on the DT amplifier while holding this switch down. Let go of the switch after 10 seconds or so, then re-start Line 6 Monkey and follow the steps above to update/re-install the flash memory.                    

[Joeleft]

8 minutes ago, phil_m said:

Did you try powering it up in Safe Mode? Hold the channel select switch down to 'Channel B' and power on the DT amplifier while holding this switch down. Let go of the switch after 10 seconds or so, then re-start Line 6 Monkey and follow the steps above to update/re-install the flash memory.                    

Hi Phil

 

Thank you for this.

Yes, tried with amp in safe mode too.

Made no difference.

 

[csakibela74]

Hi, during the update, was the stby on the amp switched to "on"? 

[psarkissian]

Yes, very good question that hasn't been asked yet. Very good.

 

Also make certain any USB Hubs are disconnected, go direct.

[PDKTDK]

I guess you tried this - From the manual:

 

DT Amplifier Factory Reset

 

As mentioned in the above sections, when customizing any settings via MIDI, your changes remain “saved” internally on the DT amplifier. This includes changes made to the preamp and power amp per Voicing switch value, Reverb and more. To return all settings back their factory default state, you’ll need to perform a “Reset” of the DT amp. To perform the Reset, start with the DT amplifier powered “Off,” then simultaneously hold the Voicing toggle switch DOWN and the Pentode/Triode toggle switch UP while powering the amp “On.” Continue to hold these toggle switches in this position until you see the Voicing “I” indicator light up (this takes about 15 seconds). The DT factory default settings are then fully restored and your DT amp is ready to play.

 

https://line6.com/media/dt50/DT_MIDIGuide_v2_0_RevA_English.pdf

[Joeleft]

10 hours ago, csakibela74 said:

Hi, during the update, was the stby on the amp switched to "on"? 

Hi. 

Tried it both ways. 

Same result. 

[Joeleft]

6 hours ago, PDKTDK said:

I guess you tried this - From the manual:

 

DT Amplifier Factory Reset

 

As mentioned in the above sections, when customizing any settings via MIDI, your changes remain “saved” internally on the DT amplifier. This includes changes made to the preamp and power amp per Voicing switch value, Reverb and more. To return all settings back their factory default state, you’ll need to perform a “Reset” of the DT amp. To perform the Reset, start with the DT amplifier powered “Off,” then simultaneously hold the Voicing toggle switch DOWN and the Pentode/Triode toggle switch UP while powering the amp “On.” Continue to hold these toggle switches in this position until you see the Voicing “I” indicator light up (this takes about 15 seconds). The DT factory default settings are then fully restored and your DT amp is ready to play.

 

https://line6.com/media/dt50/DT_MIDIGuide_v2_0_RevA_English.pdf

Hi PDKTDK

 

Thanks for this. 

Yes, tried it. Many times. 

Did nothing.

[Joeleft]

9 hours ago, psarkissian said:

Yes, very good question that hasn't been asked yet. Very good.

 

Also make certain any USB Hubs are disconnected, go direct.

Hi psarkissian

 

Thanks for this. 

Tried various USB sockets on the PC. 

Some are USB 2 and some 3. 

Made no difference. 

There are no external hubs attached to the computer. 

[Joeleft]

Thanks for all these suggestions.

 

Although unlikely, I’m wondering if possibly the inability for Monkey to ascertain the installed firmware type is the problem causing no progress on installing the latest version??

Even if it is, can’t find a way to reinstall it. 

It seemingly isn’t available on the L6 website anyway. 

 

Very baffled and frustrated. 

This is currently an expensive ornament. 

[PDKTDK]

1. Did you try re-installing the M Audio driver?

 

https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/midisport-windows-driver-v6.1.2

 

2. try a different computer?

 

 At that point I would take it in to a service center. 

[Joeleft]

2 hours ago, PDKTDK said:

1. Did you try re-installing the M Audio driver?

 

https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/midisport-windows-driver-v6.1.2

 

2. try a different computer?

 

 At that point I would take it in to a service center. 

Hi PDKTDK

 

Thanks for the reply. 

Yes, installed the driver as the MAudio midi connection was purchased new for this problem as advised by L6 and it was reinstalled just in case. 

Didn’t make any difference. 

I also tried different midi interfaces with the same result - one of them the HD500X. 

 

Have also tried Mac and Windows PC. 

Same result. 

 

This does seem to be a problem others have had on the forum.

 

The nearest service centre to me is about 160 miles away and obviously being without the amp would be inconvenient. The amp was perfectly OK before the attempt at updating. I feel a bit aggrieved that I’m now likely to incur expense and inconvenience because of what looks like a software problem. 

 

I have 10 line 6 items registered so I have invested quite a bit of cash with them. I’m hoping they can sort before I have to resort to sending it off. 

Was thinking of buying another DT25 amps to run stereo but I think that’s looking like a no now after this problem. 

 

Can’t say that I’m looking forward to updating my Helix floor and Native !

 

Thanks again.

[psarkissian]

"The nearest service centre to me is about 160 miles away"--- E&M Electronics in Milton Keynes? If it's still

under warranty, that would be the place to go. Good advice here, gone through it all. Sounds like it needs servicing

at an authorized service centre.

 

Is Mark Wright Music in Northampton closer to you? He was my opposite number at Line 6 in Rugby when we had a

location there. Might want to ring him up.

 

[Joeleft]

41 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

"The nearest service centre to me is about 160 miles away"--- E&M Electronics in Milton Keynes? If it's still

under warranty, that would be the place to go. Good advice here, gone through it all. Sounds like it needs servicing

at an authorized service centre.

 

Is Mark Wright Music in Northampton closer to you? He was my opposite number at Line 6 in Rugby when we had a

location there. Might want to ring him up.

 

Hi psarkissian

 

I'm in Lancashire so both quite a way away.

The amp is no longer under warranty.

It has had very light home use only though.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

[psarkissian]

Had the amp four years,... when was the last time the valves (tubes) were replaced?

I ask, because if the valves (tubes) are getting spent, they can pull down volts to other circuits and create a host of glitches.

[Joeleft]

2 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

Had the amp four years,... when was the last time the valves (tubes) were replaced?

I ask, because if the valves (tubes) are getting spent, they can pull down volts to other circuits and create a host of glitches.

Hi psarkissian

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

The valves have never been replaced.

The amp has hardly been used even though I've had it from new for a while (June 2015).

I don't play in a band or gig. Just very light occasional home use.

I use mainly DAW and Helix Native and prior to Native, other computer based amp sims, so hardly use it.

 

I'd be amazed if they were spent.

 

 

[psarkissian]

They will more than likely need replacing just the same. As good as the seals are, the gas will

eventually seep out, weakness in the elements creep in.

 

Even the 1924 Theremin I saw at the Mechanical Music Instrument Museum in Brentford had been

sitting around for years, they still had to change out the valves and condensers before they powered

that one up again.

 

Seen valves (tubes) last for five years, maybe twice, in all of my decades of doing this. Play it safe, when

having it service, change out the valves,... and use the specified ones (see the list below).

 

 

Tubes choices to use for the DT Series,...

 

DT-50 Series:

12AX7EH Electro-Harmonix approved for the DT50 pre-amps.

EL34EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

DT-25 Series:

12AX7B China for pre-amps.

EL84EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

Power amp tube choices are crucial, and must be properly biased by a tech or Line 6 authorized service center who knows the product.

Don't do this yourself, the shock hazard is too great,... and it hurts when you get electric shock. Leave it to a tech trained who is for this.

 

These valve amps are particular about tubes and tube brands. Do Not use substitutes, No Mesa, Groove Tube, Tung-Sol or JJ substitutes. No hot rodding of an already Bogner hot rod.   (I see way too many fail because of this).

 

 

[Joeleft]

10 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

They will more than likely need replacing just the same. As good as the seals are, the gas will

eventually seep out, weakness in the elements creep in.

 

Even the 1924 Theremin I saw at the Mechanical Music Instrument Museum in Brentford had been

sitting around for years, they still had to change out the valves and condensers before they powered

that one up again.

 

Seen valves (tubes) last for five years, maybe twice, in all of my decades of doing this. Play it safe, when

having it service, change out the valves,... and use the specified ones (see the list below).

 

 

Tubes choices to use for the DT Series,...

 

DT-50 Series:

12AX7EH Electro-Harmonix approved for the DT50 pre-amps.

EL34EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

DT-25 Series:

12AX7B China for pre-amps.

EL84EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

Power amp tube choices are crucial, and must be properly biased by a tech or Line 6 authorized service center who knows the product.

Don't do this yourself, the shock hazard is too great,... and it hurts when you get electric shock. Leave it to a tech trained who is for this.

 

These valve amps are particular about tubes and tube brands. Do Not use substitutes, No Mesa, Groove Tube, Tung-Sol or JJ substitutes. No hot rodding of an already Bogner hot rod.   (I see way too many fail because of this).

 

 

Thanks again psarkissian

I didn’t know that about tubes.

 

Your responses much appreciated. 

[psarkissian]

:)

[Joeleft]

On 8/8/2019 at 9:03 PM, psarkissian said:

They will more than likely need replacing just the same. As good as the seals are, the gas will

eventually seep out, weakness in the elements creep in.

 

Even the 1924 Theremin I saw at the Mechanical Music Instrument Museum in Brentford had been

sitting around for years, they still had to change out the valves and condensers before they powered

that one up again.

 

Seen valves (tubes) last for five years, maybe twice, in all of my decades of doing this. Play it safe, when

having it service, change out the valves,... and use the specified ones (see the list below).

 

 

Tubes choices to use for the DT Series,...

 

DT-50 Series:

12AX7EH Electro-Harmonix approved for the DT50 pre-amps.

EL34EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

DT-25 Series:

12AX7B China for pre-amps.

EL84EH Electro-Harmonix (matched pairs) for the power amps.

 

Power amp tube choices are crucial, and must be properly biased by a tech or Line 6 authorized service center who knows the product.

Don't do this yourself, the shock hazard is too great,... and it hurts when you get electric shock. Leave it to a tech trained who is for this.

 

These valve amps are particular about tubes and tube brands. Do Not use substitutes, No Mesa, Groove Tube, Tung-Sol or JJ substitutes. No hot rodding of an already Bogner hot rod.   (I see way too many fail because of this).

 

 

Thanks again psarkissian

I didn’t know that about tubes.

 

Your responses much appreciated. 

[psarkissian]

Yeah,... seen tubes last five years, seen some last two weeks. Most last 18 to 20 months depending

on how much they are used and how hard you drive them.

 

[Lukedog82]

Have the EXACT SAME PROBLEM!!! Did you ever figure out a solution???

[psarkissian]

How long since your tubes were changed out?

 

[gtrman100]

I had the same problem until I realized you need to connect both midi in and midi out cables to your midi interface. Hope that helps.

[Joeleft]

10 hours ago, gtrman100 said:

I had the same problem until I realized you need to connect both midi in and midi out cables to your midi interface. Hope that helps.

Hi Gtrman 100

 

Thanks for the note.

Yes, already did this - did just about everything imaginable really !!

Nothing moved the brick :-(

 

 

[psarkissian]

Take it to a Line 6 authorized service center in your area to be troubleshooted by a tech,

as they will have experience with our product. And they can consult me if they want.

 

https://line6.com/find/service_center/

 

 

[elrenato]

Hi,

 

Same issue for me . The amp is only 6 month old and it’s bricked after a firmware re-install and there is no way to rollback. I Tried with Mac OS and W10 with a miditech midiface 2x2 usb interface and after that with my X32 with no luck. Even if I start in safe mode or if I try the reset method, no results ! I have tested all solutions provided by others on the line6 forum. No results at all. 

Any clues ? 
 

 

[psarkissian]

My post above. If it's at that point, then it needs to be service by an authorized service center.

 

If the tubes haven't been replaced after two years, there may be a voltage pull down somewhere,

and that can be a problem during an update. If they are not the specified tubes and bias, that can

add to the problem.

 

[Joeleft]

Hi Elrenato.

 

I got no further with mine. Have given up on it. 
I’m not prepared to “take into an authorised Line 6 centre” every time it needs new valves or a looking at. As far as I know there’s only one in the UK which is Milton Keynes, which is a long way from me. 
The thing is too fussy. I have better things to do with my time.

Mine still sits looking brand new but dead.

Would not have bought it if I had known about this.

Pity L6 don’t tell us about it’s peculiar requirements up front.

 

Good luck with yours.

[psarkissian]

Though he's not on the official list, there's Mark Wright Music in Northampton. He was my opposite number

across The Pond at Line 6 Rugby, back when we had a location there. Good mate and he knows his stuff.

 

Check my posting on the top DT page about Line 6 tube amps.

 

 

[elrenato]

HI Psarkissian, Joeleft, 

 

Thanks for your posts. @psarkissian I will try a last time with a Roland UM one mk2 midi interface to be sure that it's not a midi issue at all, but in the meantime I have contacted Audiotronic in Bordeaux, France. It's the nearest authorized service center  (at 350 km from my home). I will keep you posted about this aventure.... I hope it will be ok because i liked the sound of this amp.  It's a second hand from a guy that didn't liked it after 6 months, so I hope the warranty will work for me. 

 

@Joeleft yeah, I agree. I saw a lot of posts in this forum regarding midi issue with DT25/50. I think L6 made a bad design. Too bad because linked with the HD500x, it rocks ! If it's the tubes, I saw that Eurotubes sells special kit for DT25/50 with bias indication to do it yourself. It may be worth a try for less that 100$. It could resurrect it ... 

 

 

 

[psarkissian]

The kit uses JJ tubes. Do not use JJ tubes. See my prior post on that.

These are not all analog tube amps.

 

I like JJ's, they are very good,... just not in a Line 6 tube amp. Have had problems in the past with amps failing

because of non specified tubes and bias. Use only specified tubes and bias.

 

Using anything else may be considered to be an unsupported modification, it may and can void any warranties.

 

[Joeleft]

Hi Psarkissian/elrenato

 

Psarkissian

Thanks for that. Northampton isn't far from Milton Keynes, so same issue really.

 

elrenato

Thanks for this.

I have seen valve sets for sale, but as Psarkissian has kindly explained to the forum several times, the amp still needs setting up after new valves (note the comment from Psarkissian re ONLY using the specific brand of valves) by the experts - these are not like "normal" valve amps. As I said, because they are so fussy, I've given up on mine. Just not worth the expense and bother. I'm wondering what to do with the lovely looking brick I have !! It even still has the cardboard cheat sheet on top of it.

I don't gig and have Helix and Native as well as my Blackstar Stage 60 (yes, it is a bit loud for the studio !!) so not relying on the DT25. It did sound good though while it worked.

Let the forum know how you get on with yours - I bet you aren't the only one who will have this problem.

[elrenato]

Hi Guys,

 

An update to let you know the end of the story. 
I just received the amp from the Service center. They had to change the motherboard… so it wasn’t the tubes. 
I’m happy that the amp is still under warranty. 
 

Cheers. 
 

[Joeleft]

6 hours ago, elrenato said:

Hi Guys,

 

An update to let you know the end of the story. 
I just received the amp from the Service center. They had to change the motherboard… so it wasn’t the tubes. 
I’m happy that the amp is still under warranty. 
 

Cheers. 
 

Hi Elrenato.

 

Glad you got it sorted. 
Thanks for the information.