JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Hello there! Yesterday i made the switch to 2.92 firmware and when i play, the sound stops for some miliseconds and then back.Tried the factory reset,global reset etc but nothing worked... Has anyone experienced something like that? Using a Mac mini and my Behringer UMC sound card. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Why are you using the Behringer? Which Behringer? How are you using the Behringer? If you take the Behringer out of the equation, does the problem go away? Which Helix are you using? Floor, Rack (with controller?) or Stomp? Have you tried different cables? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 What do you mean why am i using the Behringer? UMC404 is the model.I don't have another interface to answer if the problem goes away.The unit is Helix Floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, JohnKoutsikas said: What do you mean why am i using the Behringer? UMC404 is the model.I don't have another interface to answer if the problem goes away.The unit is Helix Floor. The Helix itself can serve as a USB audio interface, you know... I’m curious as to how you have everything connected as well. Is the audio cutting out while your playing guitar or during playback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 Yes but i am using Behringer as an audio interface.So...the chain is the following. Guitar - Helix - Behringer UMC 404 - Mac -Speakers. It only occurs when i am playing guitar not on playback either Youtube or Logic etc.It happens sometimes not often so i have to test first the Helix i guess as main interface and then go on with other options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, JohnKoutsikas said: What do you mean why am i using the Behringer? UMC404 is the model.I don't have another interface to answer if the problem goes away.The unit is Helix Floor. 3 minutes ago, phil_m said: The Helix itself can serve as a USB audio interface, you know... I’m curious as to how you have everything connected as well. Is the audio cutting out while your playing guitar or during playback? Also, you do not need to be connected to a computer to use Helix. Troubleshooting step 2 (after swapping out cables) is to eliminate unnecessary stuff from the signal chain. So, if you use the Helix without an external soundcard (direct to speakers), does the problem go away? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 You have a point...i will test all parameters and come back to send some feedback about this!Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, JohnKoutsikas said: Yes but i am using Behringer as an audio interface.So...the chain is the following. Guitar - Helix - Behringer UMC 404 - Mac -Speakers. It only occurs when i am playing guitar not on playback either Youtube or Logic etc.It happens sometimes not often so i have to test first the Helix i guess as main interface and then go on with other options... My standard configuration is Guitar into Helix, Helix USB in/out Logic Pro X on Mac, XLR cables from Helix OUT into a pair of Tannoy Reveal 802. Arturia Keylab 61 USB MIDI into Mac on another input. Second pair of EGO•SYS nEar5 monitors on 1/4'' jacks from Helix as nearfield reference (if needed). Works a treat and never failed yet. I have UCM204HD simply as a standby spare if needed, never really gets used. Hope this helps?makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 Thanks mate....as i said in the previous topic i will go through some changes in the chain to see what happens with various configurations and then come back with feedback! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty42 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Step 1 of troubleshooting anything is to break down the problem into simple, isolated parts. Control one variable at a time. I can't recall anyone reporting something like you describe with their Helix on firmware 2.92, so I'll wager a cup of coffee on it being something else. Unplug the Helix from your interface (and unplug USB if you have that plugged in, too), and plug directly into it via headphones or one of its other outputs to your monitors. If you don't hear the issue anymore, the problem is very unlikely to be the Helix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty42 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 4 hours ago, JohnKoutsikas said: Guitar - Helix - Behringer UMC 404 - Mac -Speakers. Are your speakers plugged into your Mac instead of the Behringer interface? If so, that's definitely something needing changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 No my speakers are plugged in my Behringer interface.I have a mini Mac.That happened today...i am gonna test things these days and come back with feedback about what happens.Thanks for the response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 The easiest/quickest test is to simply plug a set of headphones into the Helix headphone jack. If the sound does not stutter there, it is not the Helix causing the problem. Do you also have the Helix connected to the computer via USB (for HX Edit), even through you are using the Behringer for an interface? If so.... The MAC and Logic will see both devices as audio interfaces and there could be a mismatch in sample rates and/or clock timing. A MAC and Logic both have ways to deal with this, but sometimes it requires human intervention :) (ie: it takes some trial and error to set it up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) UPDATE. Hello there. So far i have tested the following solutions and had either success or failure. I will post NO/YES that refers to the glitch (sound stop). 1) Playing ONLY with the Helix itself with Headphones - NO 2) Different power supply socket and USB Connection - YES 3) Different USB socket at a USB Hub - YES 4) Connecting USB to Mac Mini straight - YES 5) Connecting Helix through XLR cables to my interface with NO USB connected to either my Mac or my USB Hub - NO So...i think there is something wrong regarding the USB connection.I am saying that because i want to run simultaneously HX Edit to modify the patches, Logic to record and maybe some Youtube for videos.The thing is that i am using this setup for 2 years now and never had any such issues. I will continue searching for stuff and post but i am late because this thing occurs suddenly after a while not too often so i have to play some time. Let me hear your thoughts. Cheers,John. Edited September 21, 2020 by JohnKoutsikas wrong word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty42 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Hi John, my thought is: what changed? If this config used to work, and now it doesn't -- did you recently update macOS? Did you recently update Helix and/or HXEdit? Are Helix and HXEdit on matching versions? Do you have any other new devices plugged in via USB that weren't there before? Your test cases above pretty well prove it's not Helix's standalone audio processing causing the problem, and test case 5 sounds like it's not the Behringer interface (or if it is, it's a problem that only happens when both the Helix and your interface are plugged in via USB). I'm not a Mac user, so I can't help with specifics, but I would be inclined to check your audio configuration in macOS. When you have both your interface AND Helix plugged in via USB, they both should show up as audio interfaces to your OS. My suspicion is that something related to that is causing the problem -- maybe they are somehow conflicting and fighting each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Yes as i said before i updated both Helix Floor and HX Edit to the latest firmware 2.92. With previous firmwares i didn't had these glitches.ALSO I TESTED SAMPLE RATE BOTH TO HELIX AND LOGIC TO HAVE THE SAME (44.100) and still had the same.When i plug Helix via USB Logic asks you if you want to use it as an interface and i choose NO and in the sound settings my interface is configured as basic sound source.So i am starting to believe there is some sort of bug in the firmware... Also this shouldn't be a problem because i didn't had glitches with previous firmware. Let me hear your thoughts. Thanks,John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnKoutsikas said: So i am starting to believe there is some sort of bug in the firmware... Easy way to deal with what you believe to be a “bug” is to do a reinstall of the firmware. As I mentioned in the prior post I use a very similar set up everyday, as do many others, with no problems whatsoever. To me that doesn’t indicate a bug, more likely a glitch. Reinstall the firmware and when completed see if it is fixed. If not, turn off the power to your Helix and wait a few seconds, then turn the power on again while holding down FS 10&11 during boot up. See if that clears the glitch. Hope this helps/makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 5:51 AM, JohnKoutsikas said: 1) Playing ONLY with the Helix itself with Headphones - NO One more test please.... Start by getting the Helix to "glitch" as you are describing through the interface/computer. Leave everything hooked up and plug in a set of headphones (to the Helix) Is it glitching through the headphones? If the headphones (Helix) are fine but the sound through the computer still glitches.... the problem is at the computer level. It is NOT the firmware on the Helix. If the headphones are glitching as well, then you may need to re-install the firmware again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, codamedia said: One more test please.... Start by getting the Helix to "glitch" as you are describing through the interface/computer. Leave everything hooked up and plug in a set of headphones (to the Helix) Is it glitching through the headphones? If the headphones (Helix) are fine but the sound through the computer still glitches.... the problem is at the computer level. It is NOT the firmware on the Helix. If the headphones are glitching as well, then you may need to re-install the firmware again. Not 100% sure about that. Presumably there is a piece of Helix firmware that is responsible for handling the USB port. I guess it’s possible that there could be a bug in there that would not be detected via the Helix headphones output. However, if that were the case all users would notice it. The fact that most users are not reporting this issue is, to me, a more persuasive argument that this is not a firmware bug.There is something in this user’s computer environment that is the cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, JohnKoutsikas said: When i plug Helix via USB Logic asks you if you want to use it as an interface and i choose NO and in the sound settings my interface is configured as basic sound source.So i am starting to believe there is some sort of bug in the firmware... FYI... Telling Logic not to use the Helix as an interface is a high level operation. Do you have any way to tell the MAC not to use the Helix as an interface? If there is a conflict between the Helix and Behringer... it would be at the computer level (MAC) and just manifest itself at the program (Logic) level. 12 minutes ago, silverhead said: Not 100% sure about that. Presumably there is a piece of Helix firmware that is responsible for handling the USB port. I guess it’s possible that there could be a bug in there that would not be detected via the Helix headphones output. Keep in mind the OP is not using USB audio on the Helix. He is plugging a Helix Output into the Behringer interface. Headphone out, 1/4", XLR, doesn't matter. The outputs need to be tested "directly", not through the Behringer/computer. BUT this should be done WHILE the glitching is known to happen through the interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, codamedia said: FYI... Telling Logic not to use the Helix as an interface is a high level operation. Do you have any way to tell the MAC unot to use the Helix as an interface? If there is a conflict between the Helix and Behringer... it would be at the computer level (MAC) and just manifest itself at the program (Logic) level. The Mac can switch between audio in/out devices on the fly. You configure what does what, via the main Audio MIDI Setup application and then select as needed. Within LogicProX if the device isn't selected then it won't be used. Note that the ProTools Aggregate device will allow yo to create multi input device from whatever you have available to use. In my case that is setup to allow 12 ins and outs. Example Pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 I just reinstalled the firmware but nothing...same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Logic has my interface as audio device...and everything seems to be working just as it should. I don't know what else to do...pffff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty42 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 3:51 AM, JohnKoutsikas said: 5) Connecting Helix through XLR cables to my interface with NO USB connected to either my Mac or my USB Hub - NO To clarify -- when you say 'NO USB', do you mean no USB at all? Meaning, neither your Helix or your UMC are plugged in? Or does this statement mean 'UMC plugged in via USB, Helix not plugged in via USB'? At this point I would take Helix out of the equation, and plug something else into the *same* input on your interface, and see if it also does this glitching. If it does, the interface is the issue, not Helix. Doesn't fix your problem, but at least helps you know what needs fixed. Also, I agree with @codamedia -- when it's glitching, plug some headphones or monitors directly into Helix and see if you can hear it direct. We need to isolate this issue to Helix or the UMC to make any headway in fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKoutsikas Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 NO USB refers to NOT having the Helix connected via USB.Just straight into my interface with XLR cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, JohnKoutsikas said: I don't know what else to do...pffff Take the Berhringer U-Phoria UMC494HD out of the equation. Connect your monitor speakers to the Helix balanced XLR output and connect the Mac Mini and the Helix via USB (DO NOT USE A HUB). Fire up Logic Pro X and select Helix as the audio in/out device. Plug your guitar into Helix, select a clean amp preset and strum. Does that work or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 23 hours ago, datacommando said: The Mac can switch between audio in/out devices on the fly. You configure what does what, via the main Audio MIDI Setup application and then select as needed. Within LogicProX if the device isn't selected then it won't be used. FYI... I am quite aware of that - I use Logic often. But what that doesn't do is solve a possible underlying issue that "may be occurring" at the MAC OS level. OP says that when the Helix is not connected via USB to the computer (for HX Edit use only) the glitch goes away! That means when both the Behringer and the helix are connected... there is likely a conflict in the computer that is causing the glitch. 18 hours ago, JohnKoutsikas said: I don't know what else to do...pffff Try this test, and report the findings! Start by getting the Helix to "glitch" as you are describing through the interface/computer. Plug a guitar into a different channel on the interface (directly).... and play it. Never mind the terrible dry tone it will have, Does it glitch? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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