Disappointed, I get a better sound with Podfarm.

[lock84]

I asked for a refund of my Helix LT, because I get a better sound with podfarm and my UX1.

 

How ? With the Large Plate Reverb "trick".

 

In EVERY presets, add a "Large Plate" (and only this one) reverb with tone and mix to the max, you'll see!

Unfortunately I couldn't reproduce such a good sound with Hx edit.

I would have liked to know what creates this sound.

 

(I play only at home with headphone)

 

 

[waymda]

Seriously? Has this forum become a troll farm? 

[SaschaFranck]

Would you please:

- Share a soundfile with and without that Plate Reverb?

- Share a dry guitar track without anything on it?

 

I'm having a pretty tough time to believe this.

[SaschaFranck]

Just now, waymda said:

Seriously? Has this forum become a troll farm? 

 

Well, let's wait for the soundfiles...

[DunedinDragon]

So....the OP plays ONLY at home on headphones.  Given his vast experience, how foolish it would be of everyone not to take note of his professional evaluation of what defines great sound.....

[SaschaFranck]

Btw, I have a pretty strong idea of what this "reverb trick" might do, but it most certainly doesn't have anything to do with any core sound quality.

[PierM]

I want 27 seconds of my life back.

[lock84]

It's not a troll, I can't share a file because I have already returned the LT.

But anyway, it's especially the feeling in the fingers...
For those who still have Podfarm, try it, and tell me before accusing me of trolling.

 

edit : here is a recording with podfarm and the "large plate trick" , but I'm not sure it would help.

 

 

[datacommando]

56 minutes ago, lock84 said:

For those who still have Podfarm, try it, and tell me before accusing me of trolling.

Hi,

 

I have PodFarm and a Helix floor - can you guess which one I use everyday without any issues?

 

Oh, yeah, big plate reverb, mmm... well that can be solved by sticking a third party reverb in one of the FX Loops. Very easy and can also be extremely cheap -simply buy a Zoom MS-70 CDR which has a large plate setting.

 

You gotta be kidding!

[SaschaFranck]

26 minutes ago, lock84 said:

It's not a troll, I can't share a file because I have already returned the LT.

 

I meant a PodFarm file.

 

Anyhow, if that Soundcloud file (pretty good playing, btw) is representative of your tone (and tonal needs) you may indeed not need the Helix. I mean, all playing quality aside, that's a pretty generic lead tone that you can get out of pretty much every plugin and/or modeler since years already. So, just enjoy what you have and be happy. Or buy a decent audio interface and enjoy the world of plugins (a Toneport isn't a good choice for that due to its high latency).

[lock84]

2 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I meant a PodFarm file.

 

Anyhow, if that Soundcloud file (pretty good playing, btw) is representative of your tone (and tonal needs) you may indeed not need the Helix. I mean, all playing quality aside, that's a pretty generic lead tone that you can get out of pretty much every plugin and/or modeler since years already. So, just enjoy what you have and be happy. Or buy a decent audio interface and enjoy the world of plugins (a Toneport isn't a good choice for that due to its high latency).

 

Thanks, but as I said it's more about the sensations in the fingers than the sound itself, that's why I'm asking those who can test it.

[cruisinon2]

2 hours ago, waymda said:

Seriously? Has this forum become a troll farm? 

 

Become? LOL... This ain't new.

[DunedinDragon]

2 hours ago, lock84 said:

 

Thanks, but as I said it's more about the sensations in the fingers than the sound itself, that's why I'm asking those who can test it.

How do you get sensations in the fingers if you're only using headphones???

[cruisinon2]

44 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

How do you get sensations in the fingers if you're only using headphones???

 

lmao... this thread needs a new title.  Something like "I'm comfortable with my old setup, and the LT gave me the $hits because I didn't know how to use it, so back it went"...

[cruisinon2]

4 hours ago, lock84 said:

I would have liked to know what creates this sound.

 

And I would have liked to know that my ex-wife was crazy before I got married... but that knowledge doesn't do me any good now though, does it?

 

You've already returned the thing. A revelation won't help you now... if you're looking for reassurance that you made the right decision, then you're barking up the wrong tree in here... post this over in the PodFarm forum, and you'll get all the "thumbs ups", back slaps, and standing ovations you can stomach. But you will get little to no validation from fans of the gear you claim is inferior... especially when the only requirement you seem to have is "I want to drown everything in reverb".

 

We've all bought stuff we ended up disliking for one reason or another. It's unavoidable...but this discussion is irretrievably pointless.

[lock84]

23 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

And I would have liked to know that my ex-wife was crazy before I got married....oh well, sucks for me.

 

You've already returned the thing. A revelation won't help you now... if you're looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, then you're barking up the wrong tree... post this over in the PodFarm forum, and you'll get all the "thumbs ups", back slaps, and standing ovations you can stomach. But you will get little to no validation from fans of the gear you claim is inferior.

 

You're wrong, I'm not a twitter snowflake who need validation.

I just want to know why and how I get this "perfect tone and feel" only with this large plate + this setting and not anything else.

I've already asked the question on the Podfarm forum 2 years ago :

 

[lock84]

44 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

How do you get sensations in the fingers if you're only using headphones???

 

I also use an electric guitar of course.

[DunedinDragon]

14 minutes ago, lock84 said:

 

I also use an electric guitar of course.

So the ear bone's connected to the hand bone which is transmitting the audio into the guitar to produce the sensation in your fingers???

Or....maybe you just find that particular tone inspiring....

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

How do you get sensations in the fingers if you're only using headphones???

 

Wrong question.

How do you *not* get sensations in your fingers when playing guitar, regardless of the monitoring?

[SaschaFranck]

And as far as the "reverb trick" goes, while I can't reproduce it anymore (once had PodFarm installed as well, but those days are long gone), I'm sure it's got to do with some stereo imaging, which, regardless of the minimum predelay and decay, might still be a thing.

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, lock84 said:

I just want to know why and how I get this "perfect tone and feel" only with this large plate + this setting and not anything else.

I've already asked the question on the Podfarm forum 2 years ago :

 

 

And you can keep asking until the end of time and never get a concrete answer... because there isn't one. What sounds good to any of us if 100% subjective, and how you got there is completely irrelevant to anyone's experience but yours. There's nothing to measure, quantify, or validate against any "standard"... It's a useless as hiring a team of PhD neuroscientists to determine why your favorite color is periwinkle blue. It just is...and who cares? Would you stop liking it if they told you the answer was "9"?

 

You've found your secret sauce. That's a good thing. Tearing it apart with micro-analytical philosophical questions is pointless. If you like your sound... go play. This will get you nowhere.

[lock84]

9 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

And you can keep asking until the end of time and never get a concrete answer... because there isn't one. What sounds good to any of us if 100% subjective, and in the end, completely irrelevant to anyone's experience but yours. There's nothing to measure, quantify, or validate against any "standard"... It's a useless as hiring a team of PhD neuroscientists to determine why your favorite color is periwinkle blue. It just is... You've found your secret sauce. That's a good thing. Tearing it apart with micro-analysis is a waste of time. If you like your sound... go play. This will get you nowhere.

 

Well,  it seems you're having fun with your sophistry.

 

I'm waiting for someone with technical experience to do the test and give me their opinion.

 

[cruisinon2]

2 hours ago, lock84 said:

 

Well,  it seems you're having fun with your sophistry.

 

I'm waiting for someone with technical experience to do the test and give me their opinion.

 

 

Test what? You're asking for someone to dial up a bunch of arbitrary settings and explain why you like the end result... Nevermind. Good luck in your quest for objective truth amongst the countless variables that shape individual perception.

[datacommando]

OMG - I bet you will say POD Farm can re-create Andy Summers tone perfectly too. This is very familiar - the gauntlet  is thrown down. Reveal the magic of the Plate verb.

[cruisinon2]

20 minutes ago, datacommando said:

OMG - I bet you will say POD Farm can re-create Andy Summers tone perfectly too. This is very familiar - the gauntlet  is thrown down. Reveal the magic of the Plate verb.

 

Yup... demand an answer to the unanswerable, then scoff at others' inability to accomplish said task. I honestly don't think I've ever been that bored...

 

 

[lock84]

25 minutes ago, datacommando said:

OMG - I bet you will say POD Farm can re-create Andy Summers tone perfectly too. This is very familiar - the gauntlet  is thrown down. Reveal the magic of the Plate verb.

 

Please, your ironic comments aren't funny...

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, lock84 said:

 

Please, your ironic comments aren't funny...

 
They are to anyone who was around when the Andy Summers sound debacle kicked off with ”itsslash”, or was it “Iamtheone”, and his futile insistence on trying to match the “Massage in a Brothel” tone. Search for “Helix cannot reproduce this tone” to see why.

Stay safe

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, lock84 said:

I just want to know why and how I get this "perfect tone and feel" only with this large plate + this setting and not anything else.

I've already asked the question on the Podfarm forum 2 years ago :

 

IMO... (based on the audio samples you posted) The effect is putting a lot of air (space) around the notes, but without an identifiable tail (decay). This makes your guitar sound much bigger than when it is turned off. It's the closest thing to a "gated reverb" I've heard on a guitar tone. 

 

As for why YOU believe this is the perfect tone and feel? There is no science to this... you simply found a sound/feel that you love. There are countless guitar players in history that found their "magic sauce" and rarely is it the same device for each of them. It could be an echoplex, a memory man, a distortion +, an LA2A, an 1176, etc... etc... For you it happens to be the Plate Reverb from Pod Farm. 

 

FWIW: When I gigged with amps my "magic sauce" was a Boss CS-2 Compressor at it's minimal sustain settings. FOR ME, it did everything I wanted to the feel of the amp, regardless of what amp I was plugged into. Trust me... not many people agreed with me, but those same people likes my tone!

 

 

 

[lock84]

30 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

IMO... (based on the audio samples you posted) The effect is putting a lot of air (space) around the notes, but without an identifiable tail (decay). This makes your guitar sound much bigger than when it is turned off. It's the closest thing to a "gated reverb" I've heard on a guitar tone. 

 

As for why YOU believe this is the perfect tone and feel? There is no science to this... you simply found a sound/feel that you love. There are countless guitar players in history that found their "magic sauce" and rarely is it the same device for each of them. It could be an echoplex, a memory man, a distortion +, an LA2A, an 1176, etc... etc... For you it happens to be the Plate Reverb from Pod Farm. 

 

FWIW: When I gigged with amps my "magic sauce" was a Boss CS-2 Compressor at it's minimal sustain settings. FOR ME, it did everything I wanted to the feel of the amp, regardless of what amp I was plugged into. Trust me... not many people agreed with me, but those same people likes my tone!

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your comment, it will be very useful.

 

This makes your guitar sound much bigger than when it is turned off.

That's exactly what it feels like!

When turned on, it sounds "fat and organic" with a lot of sustain, turned off it sounds and feels A LOT thinner, cold and flat.

 

What's weird is that it looks like a "glitch", because it doesn't work at 1-99% mix, but only at 100% like in my screenshot.

 

I'm going to inquire about the Gated Reverb,

Thank you very much!

 

 

[codamedia]

14 minutes ago, lock84 said:

What's weird is that it looks like a "glitch", because it doesn't work at 1-99% mix, but only at 100% like in my screenshot.

 

If it's a glitch, then that is why it is not happening on the newer products.

Don't blame the new products, you just happen to like the "mistake" in Pod Farm :) 

 

15 minutes ago, lock84 said:

I'm going to inquire about the Gated Reverb,

 

Loved and loathed by many. Most stand alone reverbs include "gated reverb" algorithms for ease of use.... but the best way to get the effect (and most control over it) is with a parallel path including a Reverb (often a plate style) followed by a Noise Gate.  

 

[SaschaFranck]

51 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Loved and loathed by many. Most stand alone reverbs include "gated reverb" algorithms for ease of use.... but the best way to get the effect (and most control over it) is with a parallel path including a Reverb (often a plate style) followed by a Noise Gate.  

 

With predelay and decay all the way at 0, I highly doubt the "reverb trick" sounds anything like a gated reverb.

[SaschaFranck]

1 hour ago, lock84 said:

When turned on, it sounds "fat and organic" with a lot of sustain, turned off it sounds and feels A LOT thinner, cold and flat.

 

Could you post an otherwise naked sample with and without it, so we have an idea about it?

[codamedia]

3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

With predelay and decay all the way at 0, I highly doubt the "reverb trick" sounds anything like a gated reverb.

 

Based on those settings.... I would think it would be an extremely short reverb that simply encompass' the tone, and provides very little decay. That said, I paid no attention to the settings and just I listened to the sample he posted (yes in a mix, but still a sample) and based my assumptions by what I heard there. 

 

3 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Could you post an otherwise naked sample with and without it, so we have an idea about it?

 

I agree, that would be nice! 

[codamedia]

Since this is a reverb found in POD Farm... I just dug out my old XT Live that I never use to see if the model is there. Sure enough, there is a "Large Plate" with the same parameters as indicated here. However, I have no idea if it is behaving or sounding the same (or even similar) to what is included with POD Farm. 

 

On the XT Live... with those settings, this is just a really short reverb. It stays extremely pronounced while playing, and decays almost immediately when you stop. Not a gate (as in "shut off"), but certainly an extremely steep envelope. 

 

Long story short, I don't hear anything that couldn't be done with almost any reverb within the Helix. 

 

6 hours ago, lock84 said:

What's weird is that it looks like a "glitch", because it doesn't work at 1-99% mix, but only at 100% like in my screenshot.

 

If the reverb model is the same in the XT Live as it is in POD Farm, mine does NOT behave like this. The mix simply blends in the reverb as expected until it hits about a 50/50 mix of guitar and reverb when full (100%). 

[lock84]

16 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

Could you post an otherwise naked sample with and without it, so we have an idea about it?

 

Good idea

OFF :

https://voca.ro/18kwj5PJ06TH

 

ON : (with the exact setting of my screenshot in the first post, but it sounds better with 10% in delay and predelay)

https://voca.ro/11HfvlwhUAwu

 

("Gary Moore - Shapes of things to come" solo, sorry my hands are a little cold :) )

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, lock84 said:

 

Good idea

OFF :

https://voca.ro/18kwj5PJ06TH

 

ON : (with the exact setting of my screenshot in the first post, but it sounds better with 10% in delay and predelay)

https://voca.ro/11HfvlwhUAwu

 

("Gary Moore - Shapes of things to come" solo, sorry my hands are a little cold :) )

 

Hi,

 

I stole your wet and dry MP3 files and dropped them into Logic, and without doing very much apart from adding a plate verb in Helix Native - got this.

O.K. if you get into doing a proper analysis then they aren't exactly the same, but for the less than a couple of minutes I spent in this - I could live with it, or spend more time getting it nearer.  Although as it isn't me that is so concerned that I would go back to POD Farm - Nah! near enough.

 

 

 

 

[PierM]

7 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi,

 

I stole your wet and dry MP3 files and dropped them into Logic, and without doing very much apart from adding a plate verb in Helix Native - got this.

O.K. if you get into doing a proper analysis then they aren't exactly the same, but for the less than a couple of minutes I spent in this - I could live with it, or spend more time getting it nearer.  Although as it isn't me that is so concerned that I would go back to POD Farm - Nah! near enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really my kind of tone,  but to my ears, Native sounds way better. The original sounds like a 1Watt amp trapped in a tin can. Shrug. :)

[lock84]

Well, as I said, it's more in the sensations in the fingers than in the sound itself that you feel a big difference. That's why I asked those who could, to try.

I tried all I can do with LT and Hx Edit, bought Ownhammer IR etc... and the feeling remained "synthetic".

[PierM]

3 minutes ago, lock84 said:

Well, as I said, it's more in the sensations in the fingers than in the sound itself that you feel a big difference. That's why I asked those who could, to try.

I tried all I can do with LT and Hx Edit, bought Ownhammer IR etc... and the feeling remained "synthetic".

 

Yeah, that's really a 100% subjective experience. Could be the latency in the Podfarm? Sometimes, for example, I do enjoy a very very bit of latency (few extra milliseconds) while playing complex phrases. This usually make me more precise for some reason, but I couldnt explain exactly why. I guess it's related to how we can improve focus, based on how we do perceive our own playing, while playing. Might be, in my case, that this little lag, does give my brain enough offset to auto evaluate the playing, improving control. Dunno, just thinking loud. :)

[datacommando]

22 minutes ago, lock84 said:

Well, as I said, it's more in the sensations in the fingers than in the sound itself that you feel a big difference.

 

Not much anyone can about that, if that is what you think. If only Line 6 could put that in a box, they would sell... oh, possibly one. Shame.