Issues with Helix+Variax on synth patches?

[johnnyvlee]

I've got a JTV-89F.  Have tried a number of synth patches on Helix and all of them sound like absolute crap.  Doesn't track well.

 

Anyone else run into this or am I having gear problems?

[theElevators]

Synths usually start tripping all over the place when the input signal is too weak, or if your guitar is not tuned correctly.  Try adding some compressor or gain in the beginning of the chain.  Do your synths track better with a different guitar? 

 

I've used some filters etc, and I found that the gain settings (where my volume knob is positioned) create a very big discrepancy in how the filters and synths sound and track. 

[spaceatl]

I found the synths in HX not very diverse. Good for a few things I suppose but the tracking is a bit slow for my needs. I opted to get a source audio C4. I also have an EQ2 that is first in the chain. EQ2 right channel is tweaked for the C4 that comes in the Loop return. Left channel of the E2 is for the guitar. I am using an HX Stomp XL. This approach saved me a bit of dsp too. The EQ2 also helps the HX synths track a little better without using a block in the HX for that.

[johnnyvlee]

1 hour ago, theElevators said:

Synths usually start tripping all over the place when the input signal is too weak, or if your guitar is not tuned correctly.  Try adding some compressor or gain in the beginning of the chain.  Do your synths track better with a different guitar? 

 

I've used some filters etc, and I found that the gain settings (where my volume knob is positioned) create a very big discrepancy in how the filters and synths sound and track. 

 

I'm connected via the DVI for Variax. I'm only using non-Variax if I break a string as I only have one Variax thus far.  Will get a second one and will be using only DVI.  You would tend to expect that it would "just work" over DVI, but I'll try with a compressor at start of the chain later tonight. 

 

Obviously I can only use a Compressor within Helix. I can't boost the signal going INTO Helix.

 

 

[johnnyvlee]

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5 minutes ago, spaceatl said:

I found the synths in HX not very diverse. Good for a few things I suppose but the tracking is a bit slow for my needs. I opted to get a source audio C4. I also have an EQ2 that is first in the chain. EQ2 right channel is tweaked for the C4 that comes in the Loop return. Left channel of the E2 is for the guitar. I am using an HX Stomp XL. This approach saved me a bit of dsp too. The EQ2 also helps the HX synths track a little better without using a block in the HX for that.

 

I'm not trying to do much really. Just fill in a one-note riff on stuff like Cars songs until we find a keyboard player that suits the band.

 

I'm not familiar with the Source Audio C4.  Have you compared it to EHX SYNTH9 for example?

 

I kind of hate to spend a chunk of cash on a pedal I don't intend to keep using. I just don't know how long I'll need to do this.

[spaceatl]

1 hour ago, johnnyvlee said:

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I'm not trying to do much really. Just fill in a one-note riff on stuff like Cars songs until we find a keyboard player that suits the band.

 

I'm not familiar with the Source Audio C4.  Have you compared it to EHX SYNTH9 for example?

 

I kind of hate to spend a chunk of cash on a pedal I don't intend to keep using. I just don't know how long I'll need to do this.

I did not compare them. I went with c4 mainly because I already had a neural hub, ultrawave bass and EQ2. I use my rig for guitar also, but more bass focus with the c4...EHX may track better than c4...I do not know. I mainly got it because it tracks better than stuff in the HX and the neural hub makes the midi integration with HX really simple and it doesn't take up much space. I grabbed a used one off reverb for about $180...seems used ones are around that...If I just needed a synth or two that worked for the situation you are talking about, I might look to the EHX SYNTH9 instead...it's simple and EHX always sounds great and the resale on the them seems similar to the C4....find a good used one to fill the gap and then sell it....

[codamedia]

5 hours ago, johnnyvlee said:

Obviously I can only use a Compressor within Helix. I can't boost the signal going INTO Helix.

 

Even with the Variax.... just put a compressor at the start of the path to help establish a consistent guitar signal - then try some of the synth blocks. 

That said... I find the Helix synth options to be sorely lacking at this time - I'm hoping future updates will give us more options, but I'm not counting on it. 

[waymda]

I've had the syths be a little 'glitchy' but OK, especially for the sort of sounds you're after. Variax Standards into Helix via VDI.

 

I've used both a compressor and distortion as inputs into synth modules to even out the signal, and for the Cars sounds found the grittier input help get some of that sound.

 

I also find the bridge pick-up of either the lp or strat models to be the effective.

 

Getting a good synth sound has required a bit of mucking around with other effects and/or amps/cabs on/off to get them to sound decent.

[scotterp]

18 hours ago, codamedia said:

That said... I find the Helix synth options to be sorely lacking at this time - I'm hoping future updates will give us more options, but I'm not counting on it. 

 

^^^^^^ Me too... :(

[johnnyvlee]

 

19 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Even with the Variax.... just put a compressor at the start of the path to help establish a consistent guitar signal - then try some of the synth blocks. 

That said... I find the Helix synth options to be sorely lacking at this time - I'm hoping future updates will give us more options, but I'm not counting on it. 

 

I had concluded the same thing. But I just had to make a post because it seemed so odd. It seems to be the only Helix feature which they didn't really try too hard to nail it. Most of the features of Helix are just outstanding and they show that the people behind it really thought it through. Kind of a bummer for such a great piece of gear.

[theElevators]

46 minutes ago, johnnyvlee said:

 

 

I had concluded the same thing. But I just had to make a post because it seemed so odd. It seems to be the only Helix feature which they didn't really try too hard to nail it. Most of the features of Helix are just outstanding and they show that the people behind it really thought it through. Kind of a bummer for such a great piece of gear.

Maybe Line 6 will add some improvements.  After all, Boss just released another synth for guitar, and it sounds pretty sick.  It all happens in increments.  I lost all hope about having an acoustic simulator, and was very bummed out... Like how come 20 year old processors came with acoustic simulator.. And then bam!  Line 6 Helix released an update.  Having said that guitar synths are kind of a low demand thing IMO, so it's probably on the bottom of the priority list in terms of features for Line 6. 

 

I was able to use some cool filters and things here and there from the Helix.  I find that a lot of synth'y sounds are achieved by heavy processing of otherwise dull filtered sounds.  Meaning you can add some crazy pitch delays and all of a sudden it sounds a lot more "synth'y". 

 

[cfhmonkey]

Hook up an iPad to the Helix via USB, score "Midi Guitar 2" by Jamorigin:

 

https://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar-for-ios

 

and whatever iOS synths tickle your fancy, preferably ones that are auv3 compatible so you can load them in AUM for iOS:

 

http://www.kymatica.com/apps/aum

 

and prepare to have you mind blown by the possibilities (and the tracking).

 

I realize I skipped over the specifics of routing/setup in the Helix and AUM, but if I can figure it out anyone can.   

[scotterp]

33 minutes ago, cfhmonkey said:

Hook up an iPad to the Helix via USB, score "Midi Guitar 2" by Jamorigin:

 

https://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar-for-ios

 

and whatever iOS synths tickle your fancy, preferably ones that are auv3 compatible so you can load them in AUM for iOS:

 

http://www.kymatica.com/apps/aum

 

and prepare to have you mind blown by the possibilities (and the tracking).

 

I realize I skipped over the specifics of routing/setup in the Helix and AUM, but if I can figure it out anyone can.   

 

This is kind of what I have done myself. It would just be nice to be able to do it all within the Helix. :)

 

If the synth is AUV3 compatible, you don't even have to use AUM to make it work. 

[amsdenj]

I have used Midi Guitar 2 with good results too, including with a Variax, pickups or models. Midi Guitar 2 can be configured to deal with the sensitivity of the guitar. I you want synths with a guitar, this is a really flexible way to do it. But you need a computer or iPad. I use the computer with the PA mixer.