Thinking of converting to Helix LT from Fractal FM3

[jackzucker]

Mainly because fractal has such poor support for bass but I'm also a guitarist. Over on fractal forums, this is considered a "downgrade" but I wanted to get an unbiased (or at least the other formum's bias) view on this.

 

I spend most of my time playing clean or with a small amount of overdrive (guitar only, rarely overdrive on bass).

 

Here's a clip I did on the fractal with bass and guitar to give you an idea.

 

 

Seems like a used LT can be had for a little over $800. Any issues I should know about in terms of reliability for used items? Obviously there's no way to tell if it was dropped or abused...

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jack Zucker

www.youtube.com/c/jackzucker

 

[jackzucker]

any thoughts? Also, does it always take a full day to get a post approved?

[codamedia]

There is nothing in that video clip that can't be done with a Helix LT.... actually....

There is nothing in that clip that would scratch the surface of the capabilities of the Helix LT. 

 

What you would gain from the switch is a lot more control via footswitches and the built in EXP. 

What you lose (at this time) is the fabulous cab block options in the Fractal... Not the number of cabs, the options within. 

[Kilrahi]

I don't know about "unbiased." 

 

If I wanted to be a Fractal user I'd be a Fractal user. 

 

That tells you I already decided they're the downgrade - but to be clear - if tomorrow I had to have a Fractal for the rest of my life I think I'd still have a rocking good time. Modern guitar gear has a lot to offer and most of the devices out there can get some pretty great sounds. 

 

I say "most"because I assume there is a dud, but from Fractal, to Line 6, to Kemper, to Boss, and yes Headrush and some of the others - I've been able to make my guitar sound like I needed it to on all of them. 

[rd2rk]

Half-a$$ed guitarist since 1960. Semi-pro bassist since 1963.

TBH - I play bass thru an ancient ME-50B. More options than I've ever needed and right there, easily accessible.

Much easier to get a good bass sound out of than my Helix.

Not that it can't be done. It just feels like using an AR-15 to go rabbit hunting.

 

[brue58ski]

There have been numerous posts that say that they are equal if you use IR's. I think the Fractal sounds slightly better using Line 6's cabs with the Helix's amps. AND there is a major update coming that, if the rumors are true, that the sound quality among other things will be going up. The words game changer have been used. Maybe wait until the update. It's referred to as 3.2 and the absolute soonest it will show up is sometime in September. As far as I know it is not in the beta testing stage so my guess would be more like October before it shows up. i would say at the very least, the Fractal definitely does not sound better enough to warrant paying so much more for it than the Helix. I love my Helix.

[The_Beexter]

I can only speak from a guitarist POV but I went from an AX8 to an HX Stomp (and HX Effects). Soundwise, I couldn't fault the AX8 but from a usability perspective, the Helix family is so much easier. I can adjust an entire signal chain from the hardware whereas even after 2 years with the AX8, I'd still have to hook it up to a computer for anything beyond simple parameter adjustments. I also got fed up with having to adjust presets after every firmware update. 

The AX8 had so many options to tweak anything you could imagine and sounded ace but I don't miss it at all since moving to Helix. Line6 support is also exemplary. 

[jackzucker]

Thanks guys. Has anyone compared the headphone output of the 2 units? I'd like to be able to use it as a practice/headphone amp for travel. The FM3 headphone output is a tad bright and thin sounding with my ATH-M50X headphones.

[Kilrahi]

On 8/16/2022 at 11:59 AM, jackzucker said:

Thanks guys. Has anyone compared the headphone output of the 2 units? I'd like to be able to use it as a practice/headphone amp for travel. The FM3 headphone output is a tad bright and thin sounding with my ATH-M50X headphones.

 

I play with headphones all the time.  It's great.  However, for me saying "x headphone port" is too  bright ... I just dunno how to think about that.  Helix has a gazillion EQs among other things.  If when you plug in it sounds too bright ... darken it. 

 

With that said, headphones presets and performance presets will never be the same.  Create presets based on the purpose. 

[chstd]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:38 PM, brue58ski said:

 AND there is a major update coming that, if the rumors are true, that the sound quality among other things will be going up. The words game changer have been used.

exciting news. i wonder if it will be done by improving amp modeling or stock cabs.. will wait and see.

[theElevators]

I bought an LT lightly used.  Everything works.  I have had 2 issues:

1. The expression pedal was squeaky.  I greased it and that addressed that issue.  There were many complaints in the past where the expression pedal broke.  That was limited to a particular year/production run. 

 

2. One of the plastic color rings around one of the buttons cracked for me.  I used eye glass repair glue and that seems to be holding fine.  The plastic ring/washer is held in place from underneath, so even if it cracks and breaks in two, the button will still work. 

 

Otherwise, Helix (Floor or LT) is more than capable of doing everything other processors do.  Some weak points IMO are:

1. defaults for modulations and filters are very bad.  For some reason, adding an envelope filter on a Boss processor was very easy and everything just worked out of the box.  On the Helix, there are a lot of "useless" parameters that make it very difficult to dial in the sound that you want. 

 

2. some effects in particular filters are very very finicky, but if you are patient, you can dial them in right.  Same for "auto fade-in" effect.  I wound up using "Auto-Volume Echo" with feedback turned off and that accomplished what I needed. 

 

3. acoustic simulator is amazing, but also very finicky and unforgiving if you use dial in your sound with one guitar, and try to run acoustic sim with another guitar.  The EQ can be completely different, and the volume discrepancies can be huge. 

 

So there you have it.  A TON of different options, all the sounds are there, but getting to them can be time-consuming. 

[Kilrahi]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:54 AM, theElevators said:

I bought an LT lightly used.  Everything works.  I have had 2 issues:

1. The expression pedal was squeaky.  I greased it and that addressed that issue.  There were many complaints in the past where the expression pedal broke.  That was limited to a particular year/production run. 

 

2. One of the plastic color rings around one of the buttons cracked for me.  I used eye glass repair glue and that seems to be holding fine.  The plastic ring/washer is held in place from underneath, so even if it cracks and breaks in two, the button will still work. 

 

Otherwise, Helix (Floor or LT) is more than capable of doing everything other processors do.  Some weak points IMO are:

1. defaults for modulations and filters are very bad.  For some reason, adding an envelope filter on a Boss processor was very easy and everything just worked out of the box.  On the Helix, there are a lot of "useless" parameters that make it very difficult to dial in the sound that you want. 

 

2. some effects in particular filters are very very finicky, but if you are patient, you can dial them in right.  Same for "auto fade-in" effect.  I wound up using "Auto-Volume Echo" with feedback turned off and that accomplished what I needed. 

 

3. acoustic simulator is amazing, but also very finicky and unforgiving if you use dial in your sound with one guitar, and try to run acoustic sim with another guitar.  The EQ can be completely different, and the volume discrepancies can be huge. 

 

So there you have it.  A TON of different options, all the sounds are there, but getting to them can be time-consuming. 

 

The idea that the Helix "takes time" in a way more than other devices is a complaint I hear a lot. Yet, I watch people sit down in front of real amps, sit down in front of Boss processors, Ax effects, King of Tone pedals, Q Tron Envelope filters, you name it . . . they always diddle the hell out of the knobs. No one seems to find exactly what they want right at default. 

 

I don't think any of Helix's settings are "useless." Well, MAYBE the Bias-X setting . . . MAYBE . . . I might just be too stupid with that one. 

 

Helix is a powerful tool. If you want power, you gotta learn how to use the tool, and no, a five minute sit down isn't enough. Would people have less options paralysis and the feeling that it's easier if Line 6 dumbed it down making it harder to destroy your tone? Absolutely, but it would lose some of its power. I think anyone with a somewhat decent knowledge of specific amp models and effects ought to be able to have a workable tone in a matter of minutes.

 

Will they be much better at it a year later though if they keep using it? Absolutely. 

[Mako2112]

Many people view the Kemper as the better sounding unit for amp sounds and the Helix as the better sounding unit for effects.

 

However, for the sound you are playing in the video the Helix would serve you much better. Even though you do not use a ton of effects, I find the Kemper struggles more to get that cleanish to breakup range of tones. So the Helix will be as good (if not better) for you and you will get more flexible options and effects.

 

With the Helix you can easily run multiple amps. Run one cleanish and one with some gain to get into that singing clean tone you have in the video.

 

And for recording, the Helix will let you do all kinds of stereo paths with multiple cabs, effects, or IRs.

So unless you play out live with a lot of external pedals I would point you at the Helix LT. And for $99 you can sometimes get the DAW plugin which makes it like getting two Helixs since you can play at a PC also without the hardware. And the plug-in can do things the Helix cant like show your input/output volumes.

[jackzucker]

The problem with kemper is the way the samples are captured that include the speaker. Was never able to get great results with their speaker cab swapping technology. Additionally, with the single CPU, kemper is extremely limited in processing power for time based delays, reverbs, etc. And then, because the captures are dependent on amp settings, it's really hard to find good captures that capture the amp the way *YOU* would play it. I once bought a fender twin preset from a well known preset vender and after trying it and it sounding awful, I contacted the vender who said he captured it with all the tone controls on 7. I don't know *ANYONE* who plays a twin like that. Most people I know have to set the bass to 2 just to get rid of the "woolyness". And I never liked any of the reverbs because of the CPU compromises they've had to make. I felt like even a boss reverb pedal sounded better.... I've kind of given up on them , particularly for the clean bass stuff I like.

 

Sorry for the digression, lol. Yesterday my Fractal FM3's usb port stopped working so I have to send it in for repair. In the meantime, I bought an HX Stomp to tide me over and to use as a backup. It'll be a good introduction to the line6 world. Should have it by friday with any luck.

 

On 8/17/2022 at 12:11 PM, Mako2112 said:

Many people view the Kemper as the better sounding unit for amp sounds and the Helix as the better sounding unit for effects.

 

However, for the sound you are playing in the video the Helix would serve you much better. Even though you do not use a ton of effects, I find the Kemper struggles more to get that cleanish to breakup range of tones. So the Helix will be as good (if not better) for you and you will get more flexible options and effects.

 

With the Helix you can easily run multiple amps. Run one cleanish and one with some gain to get into that singing clean tone you have in the video.

 

And for recording, the Helix will let you do all kinds of stereo paths with multiple cabs, effects, or IRs.

So unless you play out live with a lot of external pedals I would point you at the Helix LT. And for $99 you can sometimes get the DAW plugin which makes it like getting two Helixs since you can play at a PC also without the hardware. And the plug-in can do things the Helix cant like show your input/output volumes.

 

[Mako2112]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:16 AM, jackzucker said:

Sorry for the digression, lol.

All discussion is great discussion. The more we talk, the more we learn the subtle things you cant get from a manual.

 

Like, why did you settle on the Stomp instead of the LT/Helix? Size? A lot of traveling musicians really like the smaller sizes so they can carry their equipment on a plane. Or they use a lot of other pedals so the smaller footprint works better on stage?

 

I hope it all works out for you. It is hard to go wrong with any modeling stuff these days. It is all so good.

 

MY JOURNEY

I do not play out. Size does not matter. I always use a PC interface so my units are hidden in my computer desk normally.

 

I have always been a Line 6 player. POD XT Live, UX8, and HD. I always felt like the units struggled to make a Stack on 11 type sound. After watching some YouTube stuff I ordered a Kemper. After playing the Kemper for 6 months I was not happy with how "mine" sounds. It does not sound anything like videos I watch. So I purchased the Helix LT and Plug-in.

 

Now I have the best of both worlds. When I want a screaming stack I run the Kemper into the LT/Plug-in. Clean to breakup I run the Helix straight. That is why I leaned more towards a Helix for your use. To me it gets there faster and easier.

 

Under $3000 to get almost any sound I could ask for. Not bad, since a single great tube head would be $3500.

[jackzucker]

I got my hx stomp yesterday. A few impressions.
 

• It blows away the rig I was previously using for bass. I had been using a heavily modified JC120 along with a graphic EQ for bass and a custom Aguilar SL112 IR but using the HX Aguilar amp and the same IR, i'm getting way better tones that sound less processed to me.
• For guitar, i like the fractal clean amps a little better
• fractal reverbs and delays are better but I actually like the tape mod in the HX a lot though I didn't a/b it with the fractal.
• One annoyance on stomp is that i was unable to add a 2nd parallel branch to the HX and I was unable to find a mix control on a per block level so it appears that flexibility there is way in favor of fractal.
• HX Mutes the outputs when you turn it off/on. So tired of the fractal clacking loudly when I turn it on through my phones and my amp even with the outputs turned off. In fact, the fractal's behavior in this regard blew out the diaphragm in my studio headphones! I have complained about this many times but received ridicule on the fractal forum from folks who told me to just unplug the outputs every time. Sorry but not a good solution!
• helix overdrive pedals so far didn't knock me out but I need to do some more playing. Many of the fractal overdrives are also uninspiring though. And after playing through a real gladio sc, the fractal zendrive sounds toy-like. Not sure if helix has a zendrive...
• Having only 6 blocks on the Stomp is somewhat limiting
• portability-wise, it's hard to beat the hx.
• headphone output sounds really good. I think the fractal sounds thinner/brighter
• The power switch on the stomp feels cheap...
• inputs and outputs are obviously in favor of FM3 compared to the stomp...

I need to spend some more time with it but when my fractal comes back from the usb port repair, i'm considering selling it and getting a helix LT because I'd rather spend my time with one user interface. I wish line6 made a form factor similar to the FM3, i really love the FM3 size for studio use...

[jackzucker]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:41 PM, Mako2112 said:

All discussion is great discussion. The more we talk, the more we learn the subtle things you cant get from a manual.

 

Like, why did you settle on the Stomp instead of the LT/Helix? Size? A lot of traveling musicians really like the smaller sizes so they can carry their equipment on a plane. Or they use a lot of other pedals so the smaller footprint works better on stage?

 

I hope it all works out for you. It is hard to go wrong with any modeling stuff these days. It is all so good.

 

MY JOURNEY

I do not play out. Size does not matter. I always use a PC interface so my units are hidden in my computer desk normally.

 

I have always been a Line 6 player. POD XT Live, UX8, and HD. I always felt like the units struggled to make a Stack on 11 type sound. After watching some YouTube stuff I ordered a Kemper. After playing the Kemper for 6 months I was not happy with how "mine" sounds. It does not sound anything like videos I watch. So I purchased the Helix LT and Plug-in.

 

Now I have the best of both worlds. When I want a screaming stack I run the Kemper into the LT/Plug-in. Clean to breakup I run the Helix straight. That is why I leaned more towards a Helix for your use. To me it gets there faster and easier.

 

Under $3000 to get almost any sound I could ask for. Not bad, since a single great tube head would be $3500.

 

picked the stomp because originally i was looking for a backup to the FM3 but also wanted something portable for traveling. 

[medbad5150]

Had AX2 and still got AX8 but Helix is preferred. Truth mate they can both sound pretty much the same, always found Fractal too boomy and bassy but the tweaking and learning curve is totally in the NASA hemisphere, so don't expect great results at first. Honestly not joking. Much more tweaking on the Fractal, even changing tubes!! Good luck though