Big volume difference between Helix LT and Stomp XL

[badgerbaj]

I have owned my Helix LT for about 6 years and love it. I needed a backup to my LT that was closer in functionality than my old POD HD500, so I purchased a brand new Stomp XL after exploring various options and doing some research on the XL. I noticed immediately on powering it on that volume output was way lower on the XL than my LT.

 

I went ahead and set up an equivalent to my favorite custom patch on my LT - I went block by block and set every dial the way they are set on my LT, but still there's a huge difference in volume. LT set at 55% roughly the same as the XL at 85%. Wondering if it was just a difference in headphone output, I checked with my FRFR hooked up, but the same issue persists - way lower volume on a roughly equivalent patch. My HD500 behaves very similar to my LT volume wise.

 

I've gone through all the menu settings and found no setting that would explain the drop in volume, so I ask the community - am I missing something? Did I receive a dud? Both LT and XL are on patch 3.71.

[rd2rk]

In Global Settings>Ins/Outs, are the MAIN OUTS set the same?

There's no PAD on the XL, so you use the INST/LINE settings to accomplish that.

[badgerbaj]

I checked the Ins/Outs and have them set as close to the same barring limitations between platforms - PAD is off on my LT - not sure if that's what makes the volume so awesome.

 

I played the XL live this weekend and the volume at 80% made the house happy, where LT is usually at 50%. Other than having to dial the volume so much higher, it performed very well.

 

Later, I got a second USB B cable out and had both up in HX Edit. No revelations as far as volume, but did discover that my cab mic, delay, and reverb were all slightly different between LT/XL due to legacy, stereo, and such. After correcting, tone is more consistent but none of that improved the difference in volume.

[theElevators]

Do you have any effects in parallel?  That can really change the output level. 

[badgerbaj]

No effects in parallel - and I should also mention that the volume difference is consistent across all built in patches - they are all quieter on the XL than the LT

[PaulTBaker]

that really sounds like you may have the LT outputs to Line or digital and your XL outputs set to mic.

 

 

[stumblinman]

I have the same issue, but coming from the other direction.  I've used a Stomp and a Stomp XL for the last few years, and just bought the LT to allow me to move pedals off of one board and onto another to complete three pedalboards for three different locations.  Plugging the LT into my Soldano Astro was markedly louder than my Stomp or XL.  I thought it was just my imagination but now I'll go dig through the global settings and compare.  Thanks for posting this.

[badgerbaj]

On 4/23/2024 at 1:08 PM, stumblinman said:

I have the same issue, but coming from the other direction.  I've used a Stomp and a Stomp XL for the last few years, and just bought the LT to allow me to move pedals off of one board and onto another to complete three pedalboards for three different locations.  Plugging the LT into my Soldano Astro was markedly louder than my Stomp or XL.  I thought it was just my imagination but now I'll go dig through the global settings and compare.  Thanks for posting this.

This is exactly what I am experiencing - LT is louder than my XL

 

On 4/23/2024 at 1:07 PM, PaulTBaker said:

that really sounds like you may have the LT outputs to Line or digital and your XL outputs set to mic.

 

 

I'll work on getting some pictures of my global settings - outputs on both units are set to line

[Schmalle]

Changing Global Settings -> Ins/Outs -> Output Level from Inst to Line results in a significant boost. That might be the cause.

[silverhead]

I’m wondering whether the difference in volume levels is actually a problem. First, I assume the difference is noted when both devices have the overall device volume at max, or ‘unity’. I also assume that even if that’s true, you could lower the device master volume on the louder one to equalize them.

 

What am I missing? Do we expect every device from every manufacturer to be equally ‘loud’? Is there some industry standard I’m not aware of?

[stumblinman]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:50 AM, silverhead said:

I’m wondering whether the difference in volume levels is actually a problem. First, I assume the difference is noted when both devices have the overall device volume at max, or ‘unity’. I also assume that even if that’s true, you could lower the device master volume on the louder one to equalize them.

 

What am I missing? Do we expect every device from every manufacturer to be equally ‘loud’? Is there some industry standard I’m not aware of?

 

C'mon now, I think you are being facetious and are aware that the question is: why are products based on the same architecture notably different in volume levels at the same (alleged! I haven't verified my settings yet) volume settings with a patch simply shared between the devices. It's not a "problem" per se, merely an odd characteristic.  Could simply be an input/output setting change, or it could be because the Helix/LT is twice as POWERFUL, so it must be twice as LOUD.  

 

I dunno.  I'll update with my findings when I'm home.

[silverhead]

Sorry. I may be naive about it but not being facetious. I just don’t see the problem. A curiosity, yes. Just not something I would be inclined to spend time on. I’d just twist a VOL knob and be done with it.

[rd2rk]

I tested my Helix Floor vs my HX Stomp.

Identical presets - just the Whowatt+Cab at default settings.

With the Input Pad on the Floor OFF and the HXS Input at Instrument Level, 1/4" Outputs of both set to LINE.

Guitar connected to ABY Box via G10.

1/4" outs from each to Channels 1 and 2 of my Scarlett 18i20.

All identical cables.

Ableton LIVE 12 with IK TR5 db/LUFS meter on both Channels.

 

The difference? <>1db. 

The Floor was <>1db louder.

Until I swapped the cables 1-2/2-1.

Then the HXS was 1db louder.

I got identical results with the Outputs set to Instrument.

IDK if it's the cables (Identical GC Live Wires) or the ABY Box (GC Live Wires), but either way, <>1db is NOT a big difference.

I'd call it statistically insignificant.

 

Beats me why you guys are getting radical differences.

I suppose you could speculate that the LT/HXSXL pairing is different than the Floor/HXS pairing, but I doubt it.

[badgerbaj]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:13 PM, silverhead said:

Sorry. I may be naive about it but not being facetious. I just don’t see the problem. A curiosity, yes. Just not something I would be inclined to spend time on. I’d just twist a VOL knob and be done with it.

Thank you for spending time replying then :) 

 

The issue for me is twofold - first, the LT set the expectation for what the volume level should be, which was let down by what the XL volume is. It made me wonder if there was something wrong with the unit itself, or the expected behavior of the 'little brother' unit. I was looking for other's experience with both units to confirm that.

 

Second, since I usually have my LT set at 50% volume to my FRFR and DI to house, there was some comfort in knowing that I had quite a bit of headroom left. There are times when I might bring the volume up to maybe 65 or 70% for example. But on the stomp XL, there's not a lot of headroom left in the same situation.

 

Thanks @rd2rk for the test, it makes me think something is not right with my XL for there to be so little difference between your floor and stomp. Do you ever plug headphones direct in to your floor and stomp? Is there a similar negligible difference in volume output there?

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 4/23/2024 at 7:45 PM, badgerbaj said:

Do you ever plug headphones direct in to your floor and stomp? Is there a similar negligible difference in volume output there?

 

I never use the HPs on either unit, they're normally in different locations (office/studio) and connect to mixers to combine other audio sources.

I'm pretty sure that they are known to use different HP amps and that there IS a difference.

[badgerbaj]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:07 PM, rd2rk said:

 

I never use the HPs on either unit, they're normally in different locations (office/studio) and connect to mixers to combine other audio sources.

I'm pretty sure that they are known to use different HP amps and that there IS a difference.

Here's the difference! I have my volume knob on both set to control the headphones and line outs. When line outs are excluded from being controlled by the volume knob they default to max. I'll need to check in Ableton, but I'm guessing I'll see similar volume output levels that you're seeing. 

[stumblinman]

My difference was simple.  Finally got a chance to look last night.  Stomp had Outputs at Inst, and LT was at Line.  Easy fix, just never looked before.