ColonelForbin

It looks amazing! Interestingly, the multi-track recording feature requires outboard equipment; doesn't do the onboard SD card as the M20d does - though it seems more tracks are able to be recorded total using the outboard option.. "Live recording capability is becoming increasingly important in live sound systems. From simple 2-track recording and playback using a USB storage device* to all-out multitrack recording with a computer based DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), the TF series is ready to roll. TF consoles come supplied with Steinberg’s Cubase AI DAW application, providing an easy way to simultaneously record up to 16 tracks to a computer connected to the console via USB 2.0.For more complex recording requirements an optional DAW such as Steinberg’s Nuendo Live application allows up to 34 tracks to be recorded simultaneously" And, they definitely offer some really cool features as pertaining to monitor mixing from mobile devices: "The MonitorMix application for the TF Series allows individual wireless AUX mixing from up to 10 iPhone, iPad or iPod touch devices simultaneously. Each performer can have convenient control over the AUX buses assigned to them, without having to deal with complex settings or parameters. They can also create personal Group settings for even easier adjustment: all levels on just one fader, for example. Since up to three devices running TF Editor or StageMix and up to 10 devices running MonitorMix can be connected at the same time, even large bands can have the personal control they need, reducing demands on the sound engineer." The smallest deck in that series still has a lot of options over the M20d - though it also has an extra $1,000 on the price tag. I can see why they lowered the M20d price.. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TF1-16/ Anyone know how these "D-Pre" mic preamps compare to what is onboard the M20d>? "The mic preamps play a significant role in defining the sound of your mix, that's why the Yamaha TF1 16-channel digital console is loaded with 16 if their acclaimed D-Pre mic pres. Utilizing a circuit based on a discrete inverted Darlington configuration, D-Pre preamps provide you with a clean, precise sound that captures every nuance and subtlety of your source."

Yup, I agree- multiple output modes!! I hear ya, gets steep price to need two HD500 units, a DT25 amp and an L2 speaker to do what you described: mags in combo poweramp to the DT25 and models in studio direct to the L2

Good points! I have my eye on the L3s next. Have had the M20d and pair of L2t for a year or so, just added a pair of L3m recently. The weight is manageable- but I need to do some working out so I can move the rig around without tweaking my back! Talk about a niche market... Workout and Exercise book and video series targeting weekend warrior working musicians! Hey, gotta be able to lift, lug and carry the gear to the gig if you want to make music!

I have been considering a new rig arrangement that would entail using a G70 with a Variax, and two HD500 units... VDI to one HD500, wireless 1/4" to the other HD500. Run one rig in studio direct, to a mixer or full range setup; run the other L6linked in combo/poweramp to a DT amp rig. Send the variax mags through the VDI, send the variax models through the 1/4" wireless.

Considering the lowest priced DT is still twice the cost of the HD500; can we just call it even and give all the DT folks a sweet, sweet bone? pleeeaaaseee~! :) I really mostly use the DT with the HD500; but it is quite nice to plug in direct, and that's how I intend to run one DT25 rig with my band, my buddy on lead guitar is using my keeley pedalboard into a DT25 mini stack; and I am using the other set of DT25's. Interestingly, two DT25 extension cabs don not stack as well as I imagined.. The base is slightly deeper, so the feet have to be just so for thee top cab to sit right. However, the DT25 combo stacks perfectly on top of the DT25 extension cab. GO figure! It's not any more top heavy than two cabs and the head on top. Plus, looks cool since the controls are on top.

Ahh, I misinterpreted! yeah, that port stuff is scary when it gets to threatening the food supply; which is nearly as important as the guitar supply! 😊

I agree with everything 'cept that slam on Obama!

I would imagine Yamaha intends Line6 to remain it's own brand; the recognition, product history, all of that. The M20d is one heck of a solid piece - within certain limits. Huge stage bands, with keyboards, a horn section, three backup singers, two lead singers, two guitars, bass, drums, percussion - they might need something a bit more. But if you are creative with how you handle monitor mixes, and inputs; you could still run that whole band with the M20d; but it would be a challenge: 1. lead (vocal 1) 2. lead (vocal 2) 3. backup (vocal 3) 4. backup (vocal 4) 5. guitar 1 6. guitar 2 7. bass 8. kick drum 9. overhead drum (left) 10. overhead drum (right) (* or go single overhead and two horn section mics) 11. horn section 12. percussion (condensor mic overhead? or possibly use a small second mixer, send a sub-mix to a 1/4" stereo pair) 13/14. keyboards (figure out how to make it work using 1/4" inputs) Not ideal; but you can make it happen, still have four monitor mixes, and probably also pull off a decent multi-track recording.. Maybe not the main mix; you'll likely have to shape that to fit the room and match stage volumes of things like drums, to vocals, horns, etc. If you believe you can make it work, and well - you can. :) Development wise? Who knows. The M20d sports some pretty intense A/D converters, and the DSP is extensive. The Line6 link option is also something that is quite a benefit, depending on how you run the stage. I love it; but my needs of it are more limited than others, so it does everything and more for what I want to do with it.. My band is four piece, with one vocal mic.. This thing handles that no problem!! I mic the heck out the drums, can even run four guitar tracks; does a stellar job in rehearsal; we have only used it for one gig thus far - I didn't have the L3m mains yet at that gig, and it still worked fine. Ran the main outs to a power amp to a pair of speakers, and used my two L2t's with the link for the stage monitors. One up front for the vocalist and myself and the bassist to hear, and one dedicated to the drummer. The stage bleed between the two monitors covers it well enough for now. I could see myself adding another L2m down the road, even out the monitor mixes. Maybe add a L3 sub to the center mains; but, for me, don't need much more. Bigger stages, bigger bands, more complex in and out routing; might hit some snags. Overall, I have definitely enjoyed using it. It's intuitive, and not as intimidating as a 'standard' mixer. I used a regular mixer with the old band back in the day, it was good, nothing special, just a 16 channel Behringer. This M20d has substantially higher sound quality though. Without using a bunch of FX or the DSP features, just using the standard presets, and adjusting the gain, it sounds insanely good. In part, the extra power on the L3 mains and L2 monitors allows extra headroom, and the anti-feedback features do work wonders. The multi-track recording is spot on, I never have any trouble. Key there, is get the correct SD card. Record, copy to computer, and then format the card before using it again. Whether they update or not, just as it is, this thing is perfect for my needs, and I still have no clue how to use well over half of it's deep editing features.

Just get it from Sweetwater, free shipping! Depending on where you live, it only takes one day for stuff to get to me.. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Firehawk Yes, It's In Stock!This item is available for immediate delivery. You'll enjoy the fastest delivery time in the industry with our centrally-located warehouse and latest shipping cut-off times.

Nice! Yeah, I had been pestering my Sweetwater sales guy, but I never heard back from him, lol... I think now the bigger issue is the ever extending lead times!! I hate to imagine all those guitars cooking in the west coast spring, sitting on a non-climate controlled cargo boat, queued up in line, stuck because the west coast port strike mess.. The strike is over, but the backlog of work is extensive, and the damage is done.... "The labor dispute that wreaked havoc on West Coast ports and on shippers for months was tentatively settled on February 20. By then, it was too late. Cargo had been delayed for weeks. Perishable goods with sell-by dates were stuck in refrigerated containers somewhere. Companies around the country spent endless working hours to keep the supply chain from collapsing. Cargo was shipped by air at a big additional cost. Demurrage charges and other costs piled up. Manufacturers, like Honda, ran out of parts and had to cut production…. It was a fiasco shippers won’t forget."

Sweetwater finally updated their page; they changed up the photo officially http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VariaxStdBurst

I had a similar issue when mine was new, turned out to be a hardware issue and Sweetwater replaced the entire unit for me. How long have you owned it? Open a service support ticket with Line6, you should be able to get it repaired under warranty

Yikes....Now Zzounds says end of May! "More Expected We have been given a date of May 25 for the arrival of this item. This date is not guaranteed, rather an estimate based on either information obtained directly from the manufacturer or historical delivery data for the specific manufacturer."

ahhh, port strikes. that can be brutal for lead times, especially if it's coming through the west coast ports..

What is entailed in getting this kind of repair done? Do you have to ship them, or were you able to do it at a local 'authorized service center'? Is that repair covered under the standard warranty, or is it something they've acknowledged is a design issue, and will be covered past the point of warranty?

I wasn't an early adopter, but have been learning how to use mine for about a year; though only at about half capacity or less of what it can do! Primarily, with my band, we used it for rehearsal and recording. HOWEVER.. I just bought a pair of the L3m speakers recently, and with our newly recorded five song EP, we're looking to book some gigs this spring and summer! At that point, I have a feeling I will need to get a LOT more familiar with the 'live' mixing features.. Or, at least get our sound guy interested enough to read up and give me some tips; or learn how to use it so he can run sound for us sometimes! I think the lack of robust discussion and community may come from the initial price being off putting, and the continued rather steep cost of utilizing the entire system. I can see why QSC was smart to put out a competitor, and they certainly filled a market gap for people who don't associate Line6 with PA,. mixer or live sound speaker equipment. Personally, I've used a lot of random, piece meal PA systems with my prior various band experiences. Back when I played bass, and we had to do our own sound, I usually brought a mixer, mics, cables, someone else had a couple of powered mains; Behringers. The monitors were always cobbled together with whatever anyone had. A cheap poweramp, speakers with banana plugs. By comparison, the Line6 M20d + Stagesource speakers is a slick, hi-def, amazing sounding ensemble of gear! The L3m are definitely heavy, but their slender, vertical shape is quite easy to carry. They also look sharp. The L2 speakers are relatively east to lug around, you can one hand those with something in your other hand and not throw out your back. I think, at the price point a person would need to put together a really 'full' stage rig, vs say, the minimum that I have (two L2t's, two L3m's, and an M20d), the price gets pretty astronomical. For even just a casual like me "music is fun, I play in band, but it's not my full time job" player, the thing is spendy. It took me over a year to add the L3m's; and I don't see adding a sub or two anytime too soon. All that aside; pretty kickass set of gear. Way over my head, but I am learning as I go. Keep your ears and eyes out for price drops and random sales.. If this stuff got within reach for the folks already using other Line6 gear, you might see more forum discussion.. While it was painful when they dropped they M20d price by $500; after I had already bought it... It is a step in the right direction. Get the M20d down closer to $1000, add an M36d as the new $2000 price point, and keep dropping the prices on the Stagesource speakers. They are on sale through April, but that sale price should be the regular price, and the sale price should be another $200 less. I love mic'ing up the drums with ours though; even just through the L2t's the drums sound awesome; can't wait to run the full band through the L3m's. Also; the 12 XLR inputs on the M20d do make a difference; I run out if I go crazy with drum mic'ing or stereo amps, but with my four piece band, the 12 is enough, most of the time. QSC was smart, to offer 16 XLR inputs, but making 12 XLR only, and 4 'combi' as XLR mic or 1/4" line. The extra four XLR inputs makes a definite difference; and their starting price is a good bit lower. And they went with 6 AUX outputs; the extra monitor mixes make a difference, and for some folks, that's a deal breaker - they need more than the four Line6 is offering. The M20d has to make it work with the L6Link, so four was the limit. What does 32 bit broadcast mean? I noticed the multitrack recording uses an external hard drive only, no SD card slot. It also has a talkback mic input, and built-in wifi for using wireless tablets... Dang!

Guessing it's going to be soon; Zzounds has popped it into an advertising spread; "Fresh Pick of the Month" http://www.zzounds.com/lp/product-of-the-month/218

That is where you are missing what they are telling you. Don't connect the POD via Link to anything!!! Connect link cables ONLY between the two speakers. Run the analog outputs from the POD to the analog inputs on one of the speakers, using the inputs on the L3t MIXER panel, not the back panels. Be sure to set the "stereo Link" rather than "mono" switch on both of the L speakers.

Ok, try this, just because! Since you have both an HD500 and an HD500x, and a JTV.. Connect the VDI cable from the JTV to one HD unit, and connect the 1/4" plug from the JTV to the other HD500. Depending on your amplifier options, my thinking here was something like this: On the JTV, set the model that you want to go to the HD500 set in 'studio direct' mode. Connect it direct to PA, or to a full range speaker. That POD gets the 1/4" cable - I am thinking for ease of stage use, make it a wireless, but for test purposes, any 1/4" will do. For example, set the JTV to your favorite acoustic models, and set the studio direct accordingly - doesn't have to be acoustic, but the concept being the acoustic patches work best in full range mode. Then on the other HD500 - the one getting the VDI, connect it to an amplifier - I happen to use a DT25, but anything that sounds good; that HD500 gets set to 'combo poweramp'. Make the HD500 getting the VDI process the 'variax mags'; set it up however you want - make sure there is a volume pedal programmed in all HD500 patches Make the HD500 getting the 1/4" process the 'variax models', set it up with the notion that it's specific to going full range. I was thinking this would be an interesting way to send the variax acoustic models direct to the PA, the mags to an amp or amps; and you can run them A / B / A+B, using the volume pedals to control the level balance. You can also go with duplicate patches - say, same basic configuration on both, but since one is going full range and one to an amp, you can achieve a tonally massive sound.. Just a thought; you've got the extra HD unit, that makes it possible - can't do it with just one, need one in studio direct and the other in amp mode (combo poweramp, combo stack, etc.) In terms of use with a DT, would actually be a really cool side by side 'recording direct' comparison. Send the two signals, same model or mags to both HD500 units. Set up two identical patches on both units; route one with the L6link to a DT amp (or multiple DT amps), and send the other 'studio direct' to a mixer / recording. Get them both dialed in, and play a bunch, record it all, and see how much difference there really is between the preamp only+ DT version of an amp model, vs the 'studio direct' full amp model. All things being equal, I've always felt a tonal thing happening with the DT's that I preferred, but I have never done a true recording comparison, and listened to both signals as the audience would hear. Because lately, at home I have been really liking the studio direct stuff; but anytime I jam with my band, when the drums and bass and everything is loud, I prefer the DT amps - for playability purposes. But the actual tones as heard via the XLR out on the DT to the main mix? It sounds fine, but I haven't been too critical in comparing it with the studio/direct version.

Good to know!! I figured it was something like that; it did just fit at one table per page. It does seem logical that if you keep adding speakers, that are vertical it will most likely just keep adding L/R when the numbers are odd and equal pairs of L/R when the numbers are even. I suppose it would matter if someone wanted to position some subs center to get L+R. I think one of the smartest features they included with the M20d is the 'ping' function. Having only a couple of speakers, not needing it much - but what a great way to quickly identify which speaker on your link list corresponds to which speaker in the actual stage! Way easier to re-assign a speaker in the M20d that move it around or change cables.. So - if anyone out there has more than nine L2 / L3 speakers and wants to test this for us.. ;) The 'Wall of Sound' ain't got nuthin' on that rig!! I am pretty far from having anything near that # of speakers connected any time soon, but it never hurts to wonder.

As for troubleshooting the current setup you are working with, double check that tiny switch on the mixer panel, near middle towards the bottom - says "dual mono" or "stereo link" .. Set it to 'stereo link' Or, Try just using the Line6 link from the HD500x to the first L3t, the Link out from that speaker to the Link in on the second speaker. Go into the HD500x system settings, and from there you can assign L3t #1 to get "left" and L3t #2 to get "right"..

Yes, 18 is the total - but to be specific, I think that means a total of 9 mains + 9 monitors. I don't know what it would do it you linked more than 9 mains or monitors! The two charts right after that page in the manual were quite informative!; in terms of, when you have 9 or 18 speakers connected, how it configures by default which speaker gets what. Table 1: Default Output Assignments for Vertically Oriented L3t and L3m Speakers: 1 Mains L+R 2 Mains L Mains R 3 Mains L Mains L+R Mains R 4 Mains L Mains L Mains R Mains R 5 Mains L Mains L Mains L+R Mains R Mains R 6 Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains R Mains R Mains R 7 Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains L+R Mains R Mains R Mains R 8 Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains R Mains R Mains R Mains R 9 Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains L Mains L+R Mains R Mains R Mains R Mains R Table 2: Default Output Assignments for Horizontally Oriented L3t and L3m Speakers 1 Aux A 2 Aux A Aux B 3 Aux A Aux B Aux C 4 Aux A Aux B Aux C Aux D 5 Aux A Aux A Aux B Aux C Aux D 6 Aux A Aux A Aux B Aux B Aux C Aux D 7 Aux A Aux A Aux B Aux B Aux C Aux C Aux D 8 Aux A Aux A Aux B Aux B Aux C Aux C Aux D Aux D 9 Aux A Aux A Aux A Aux B Aux B Aux C Aux C Aux D Aux D

And change the cab!! I didn't like how it sounded with the 2x12 that it defaults to. Lately my alt cab go to has been the Hiwatt 4x12. That same Hiwatt option worked well for the new JCM800 and the 5150; didn't like the stock cabs in either of those.

Yeah, I noticed that too - changing the cab helps alot! Try the hiwatt 4x10 for starters. The greenback 4x12 does tame the fuzz / bees nest sound

Yeah, the 50' L6 brand Link cable is too expensive. $81 for the 50' length!!! You can get Bestronics to make you one in the USA, using Belden cable, 50' length, far superior cable quality, for a good bit less $$$. Hosa should be high quality too; good price usually! Looks like $25 or so for the Hosa 50' http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSEBU $24.95 http://btpa.com/AES-EBU1-XX.html AES/EBU1-XX Male to Female 3 Pin XLR AES/EBU Digital Cable using Belden 1800F Cable Selected options: Cable length (Feet): 50 $44.86