ColonelForbin

They are quite versatile, both linked to an Hd500, or in 'standalone' mode. I went the DT25 route, started with one, now I've got two of the combos and one head, and two of the cabs. I recently started messing with the MIDI editing of the DT for standalone and it's quite easy! And, for what it's worth the default mic setting as loaded on the DT25 is what gets modeled for the DT's XLR out. And, interestingly, when using the MIDI to configure the DT, you can set any of the eight presets (A I-IV and B I-IV) to different amp, cab and power amp settings, including a boost setting that defaults to "on" for most of the amps. On the DT50 that boost goes through a 12ax7 tube. On the DT25, it doesn't have the extra tube, so not sure if that boost is digital, or what. Also when you set one of the slots, say A I to "no amp", the setting also impacts the HD500 even when linked, since when you define no amp on the POD it then defaults to the onboard DT amp. This is useful to have both POD and DT set to 'no amp' when using a JTV with the acoustic and reso models.

I had that issue, or a variation of it. Sent my defective unit back to Sweetwater, they sent me a replacement M20d, which has been flawless since.

Interestingly, he doesn't use Red Special on FBG! "Fat Bottomed Girls,†which is in dropped-D tuning, is played with a Red Special replica that's green and was built by British luthier Andrew Guyton." The picks, or lack of one is also going to factor in heavily: "May rocks his various Red Special models with the help of sixpence coins because they give him the ultimate touch-sensitivity control allowing him to feel every contact the coin has against the strings. Plus, he enjoys using the serrated edges of the coin for an added bite." Also, the wet-dry-wet rig does make a pretty significant impact as well! "Instead of hitting a dirt box for distorted tones, May simply uses the volume control on his guitar to wrangle all he needs out of his trio of Vox AC30s. The amps are set up in a wet-dry-wet configuration with the center amp receiving a totally dry signal and both of the outside amps getting a different delayed signal. The ping-pong effect is mirrored in the onstage monitors as well. Each amp has been heavily modded to remove all the unnecessary (at least to May) reverb and tremolo circuits." "The only real effects May uses is his Fryer Treble Booster mounted on his guitar strap, a Dunlop rackmounted wah, and a pair of TC Electronic G-Major 2 delay units (one set to 800 ms and the other 1600 ms)." Of course it helps to have a guy off stage switching your tones up for you with a MIDI controller! "His longtime guitar tech Pete Malandrone handles all the switching offstage via a KAT MIDI controller." http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21168-rig-rundown-queens-brian-may

Zzounds says (for the sunburst) "PREORDER TODAY Expected Jun 15"

I think when you change the I-II-III-IV setting with the switch on the DT25, while linked to the HD500, that is actually only changing the topology of the amp model as selected in the HD500 - though it may be changing the topology to whatever is programmed in 'standalone mode', not sure... Worth a test, I was wondering that today. Easy way to find out, program the DT25 in standalone mode so all the voicings use topology I. Then with the HD500 linked, and connected with USB to HD edit, change that I-II-III-IV switch around, and see if the corresponding value changes in the HD Edit setting. Also, your ears will know! If it uses the topology I that is set on the DT25 it would not get louder as you changed the switch, but if it's changing the topology of the amp model as linked, then going to say, topology III or IV should result in a considerable volume increase.

Take note of the 'boost' on / off setting when you connect the MIDI to configure your DT25. Just discovered that yesterday, that setting has a lot to do with those huge volume jumps!

Did a quick test, connected two DT25 1x12 combos, side by side. With my JTV59, using the mags only, ran the 1/4" to one of the DT25's, and the VDi to the HD500x, linked to the other DT25. It seems the 'boost' setting is similar to the input doubling that occurs on the HD500 when you set the input 1 to something (guitar) and input 2 to 'same'. Using the Treadplate model, with the gain, levels and tone controls in equal positions on both, got extremely similar results. This is with the Treadplate loaded onto the DT25 in standalone mode, set to topology IV, and boost set 'off'. On the HD500, it's important to note, that using the 'pre' model vs the 'full' model yields RADICALLY different results. To make them match, use the PRE model. I set the input 1 to variax and input 2 to guitar, so the signal is 'single'. ALSO, the default L6link setting is "left/right", which also doubles / boosts the signal. Setting this to 'left' (or right) only is also required to get the tones to match. Once I did all that, it was quite tasty!! Psyched to try this idea on some of the other amp models, see how they sound. Also recorded what I was playing, so will listen to that and A/B the sounds. Need to still test if changing the onboard DT25 mic model also impacts the XLR out when using Line6 Link. I am pretty sure it does. Cheers!

Quick update on the experiment - configured A-I and B-I to be 'none' for amp model on the DT25, set A-I to topology II, B-I to topology IV. Plugged the JTV into HD500, linked to the DT25. Using a blank patch with no amp model, with the DT set to A-I / B-I works as hoped! And it sounds sweet! And, the XLR out from the DT25 to the L2t's sounded excellent as well. I am optimistic this will be how I use the JTV in acoustic and electric modes, with the DT25 linked to the HD500! The real test will be jamming with the guys at volume (with drums!), but thus far, pretty good.. By defining no model in both the DT25 and the HD500, it definitely makes all the acoustic and reso tones sound pretty sweet. I was doing some looper jams, and just toggling through the sitar, banjo, tricone, even the 12 strings sound nice. And, if you put the -12 bass octaver in the HD500, you get a gnarly, passable bass tone! Sounds wild with the banjo and sitar; gives the bass note a cool almost auto-wah tone. Radatats had originally presented the idea about using the JTV with the DT way back when, so credit where it's due! I just never thought to also remove the amp model from the DT25, since I was rarely ever using the amp without the HD500. Will need to spend some time with my patches now; go back to using the VDI cable, and trigger JTV model changes with each patch change. I haven't used that feature before, so I am psyched to make use of it!

CipherHostYesterday, 11:25 PM I thought I could sneek into the MIDI of my HD500X and find out what the boost settings were for the new models. I suppose we could infer some of them from the Colonels findings, but I thought I would try and see myself. When I send a CC 11 (HD Amp Select) with a value of 0 thru 30 on FS1, DT Edit responds by displaying the correct amp in real time according to the "DT25 Amplifiers - MIDI Implementation Chart". So I just kept increasing the value one at a time thinking the new amps might show themselves. No dice. When I tried to CC 12 (HD Amp Select with Defaults), DT Edit did not respond at all. Bummer. Does anyone here know if the DT Edit software has to be updated/rewritten to read the new amps or am I just poking in the wrong place? I was using DTeditOSX. ---------------

BrazzyYesterday, 09:51 PM That's a great post Colonel. Thanks for doing all that research and sharing it. I toyed around with that setting just a little with my DT50 and found it usable. ---------------- Thanks!! My day off from work is Monday's this month, and I had the house to myself all day today :) It was awesome!!! Played pretty much all day, with the amp cranked up loud, from around 8am to 8pm. Another trick I discovered, is to set one of the preamp slots on the DT25 to 'no amp', for use with the JTV acoustic models. You still choose the topology; and you can use the boost if needed. Way better sound than running the acoustic models through any of the preamps! Not as clean / clear as going through a full range speaker - but a good way to make it work! I am going to test that, and listen to the signal as sent through the XLR to the mixer, out to an L2t; curious to see how well it sends the signal to the full range PA system. I kept trying to find ways to split my signal so I could send the JTV acoustics direct to the mixer; if this works well it will still benefit using the Link - define one set of the voicings as the "no amp model", and then in the HD500 choose no amp model, and I would guess that should do pretty much the same thing - direct tap to the power amp. That way you can still run some EQ and compressor or whatever to shape the JTV acoustic tones a little. Worth a shot! --------

DT 25 'standlone' (firmware v2.0) Amp models with "Boost ON" by default: - Gibtone 185 - Tweed Bassman Normal - Tweed Bassman Bright - Divided 9/15 - Phd Motorway - Class A-30 - Brit J-45 Normal - Brit J-45 Bright - Brit Plexi 100 Normal - Brit Plexi 100 Bright - Brit P-75 Normal - Brit P-75 Bright - Brit J-800 - Bomber Uber - Treadplate - Angel F-Ball - Line 6 Elektrik - Line 6 Doom DT 25 'standlone' (firmware v2.0) Amp models with "Boost OFF" by default: - Blackface Double Normal - Blackface Double Vib - Hiway 100 - Super O - Blackface 'Lux Normal - Blackface 'Lux Vib - Class A-15 - Flip Top Bass

Sorry guys, I accidentally deleted the entire thread!!! I was using my phone when I messed up, so I was able to go back and copy everything I had written, and the responses... ---------------------------------------------- I spent today updating the firmware on my DT25 amps, and while messing around with the MIDI editing software, DTEDIT, discovered something called "boost on" and "boost off" - it is an option when configuring the DT25 and DT50 for standalone mode. The DTEDIT software says "DT50 only" under this setting, but that is inaccurate. This boost on/off works on both the DT25 and the DT50. HOWEVER: - On the DT50 the boost is handled by a 12ax7 tube. - On the DT25 the boost is digital. AND Just looked at the HD500 edit again, to confirm - there is NO setting on the POD / HD500 that corresponds to the "boost on" / "boost off" setting that was added with the DT25/50 2.0 firmware update!!! Proof for the folks who have been saying all along, that there is a difference between the DT amps in standalone mode, vs linked with an HD500, they were quite correct. I totally missed it, never bothered to update my DT firmware until today! I never took the time to listen to the difference.. Good ears lads and ladies! :) See, it turns out, this boost is ON in most of the amp models, by default!!! It probably sounds way better on the DT50, since it's a 12ax7 tube. I did various A/B comparisons of the boost on and off, in the DT25, and prefferd it 'off' - so I reconfigured mine to have the digital boost 'off' in ALL the amp models I chose. No clue what that means for using the HD500 linked. I might need to set up both of my DT25's, link one to my HD500, and run the other in standalone. Use the MIDI, configure 8 different amp model options, turn off boost in all. Then choose those same amp models in the HD500, and compare. With the tone, gain and volumes set the same, and the input on the HD500 set to single, IE, input 1 guitar, input 2 variax, they should sound almost the same. My hypothesis is that the amp models with boost on by default will not match their L6Linked counterparts until the boost is turned off... Will do a test and report back!! -----------------------

Actually, certain aspects of what you configure on the DT25 in 'standalone' mode (with the MIDI software editor) do carry over when using the HD500 in link mode. Not major stuff but things such as - reverb assignments - amp model settings when no amp model is chosen on the HD500 - the microphone model that feeds the XLR out on the back of the DT25. In particular, #2 is very useful. Set a pair of the 'voicings' on the DT25 to 'amp none', and do the same on the POD. This works quite well to use acoustic guitars with the DT25, or the JTV acoustic models. Bypassing the preamp and cabinet also bypasses the mic model, so in essence you get something resembling 'studio/direct' - basically a direct tap into the DT25 power amp. In this case, the topology is whatever you define in the DT25 editor using the MIDI option. That stays with the amp after you disconnect the MIDI, so it's a useful option, to be able to incorporate acoustic signals into the DT rig. And the reverb dial on the DT25 is independent from the reverbs defined in the HD500, and you can load any of the HD500 reverbs, which can be quite useful to off load that DSP to the DT25! Like, particle verb for example. The mic model as loaded in the DT25 is what you hear when using the XLR out from the DT25, not the mic model as defined in the HD500. The default setting is SM57 off axis I think? One of the two SM57 options. I will test that to be sure..

Yes! I used my old M-Audio Delta 1010, worked just fine

Oh yeah, for what it's worth, here is "take one" of configuring my DT25 head in 'standalone mode'. Going to take a pass with the DT25 combo too, maybe try different setting ideas. One idea I had early on, was to make each A/B pair a set of the amp models that have two channels modeled. like, A-I = plexi normal, B-I = plexi bright; A-II = solo 100 crunch B-II = solo 100 overdrive A-III = Bassman normal B-III = Bassman bright A-IV = P-75 normal B-IV = P-75 bright stuff like that. The SLO models work well for that! Some of the other models have considerable volume differences between the channels modeled. For starters, I targeting amp models and settings that "play well" together at basically equal volume and tone settings. Don't want to have to redial in the amp just to toggle between the other amp model 'A and B' options! So, here is take 1: (note these setting on all: *409 dynamic mic model, '63 spring reverb, pentode, class A/B) (* the best way to figure out what this needs to be for your sound, is to connect the XLR out to your live sound system, and either get someone to play, or listen to you play, and also maybe record that signal. Maybe have a mic so you can note what change you are making - like "409 dynamic mic, plexi channel A, or 121 ribbon, treadplate. Unfortunately, you can only set this globally, unlike when using the POD in studio direct, when you can program patches with mic model changes. I still need to spend some time figuring out which mic model I want to use - was getting a ton of bass in certain mic models, and harsh tones in others, but also varied by amp model, so it's a moving target - some compromise of a mic setting that works well, and pairs nicely with an actual SM57 is my goal.) Channel A: [rhythm / clean / crunch] Voicing A-I: Blackface Double Vib / 2x12 Blackface Double cab / Topology I Voicing A-II: Brit Plexi Bright / Brit T-75 cab / Topology II Voicing A-III: Solo 100 Crunch / 4x12 Greenback 25 cab / Topology IV Voicing A-IV: Brit P-75 Normal / 4x12 Blackback 30 / Topology IV Channel B: [louder / crunch / lead] Voicing A-I: Brit J-800 / 2x12 Blackface Double cab / Topology I Voicing A-II: Brit J-800 / 4x12 Brit T-75 cab / Topology II Voicing A-III: Solo 100 Overdrive / 4x12 Greenback 25 cab / Topology IV Voicing A-IV: Treadplate / 4x12 Tread V30 cab / Topology IV

Ok, I tried that, and I discovered that the 'boost' setting does nothing in low volume mode! Also, the typology setting didn't seem to have any effect on the sound either. So, I went back to full power mode, and just recorded the various mic options, tried to play similar riffs each new setting. Also recorded a Shure beta 57a, off axis on the closed back cab. Interesting sound, when you pan them left and right, since it's the same peformance, but a variation in the tonal character, especially when using mic models other than the SM57. Might work more with that idea for live sound.. Next test, need to determine if the 'standalone' mic setting in the DT25 impacts the XLR out when using the HD500 linked. That could be huge - run two DT25's, and set different mic models in each, so the XLR outputs sound different.

Yeah buddy! You got it, that was my next test; to plug a piezo acoustic guitar in. Taylor - nice!! I am pretty certain that those other two settings do nothing on the DT25; they are definitely specific to the DT50. Definitely makes sense, to consider that people have always had some issues getting the 'standalone' DT25/50 to sound the same as when linked with an HD500. I will need to take a closer look at the editing options in the HD500 / HDedit software, in terms of those three settings that are part of the DT amp configuration options - but I am not sure those same parameters are duplicated in the HD500; and I think there are settings in the HD500 that are not available on the DT amps. Makes sense; they use the same amp models, but are not the same in all manners. Turning off the DT25 digital boost - which is on by default on MANY of the amp models- makes them ALL sound quite different to me. Those ENORMOUS volume jumps between certain amp models / typologies was also being exacerbated by the 'boost' setting. I am paraphrasing / editing from the Line statement on the firmware page, but I imagine this is accurate: "Variable 12AX7 Boost (DT25) You can now set a digital boost per amp model. In earlier DT25 firmware versions, some amps were boosted, some were not—now you have the option to set each one however you like." After deciding to turn off the boost in ALL configurations; I was able to put together a set of eight 'voicings', and set them up as four pairs. I treated all four on 'A' as rhythm / clean / crunch, and set up all four on 'B' as louder / lead / high gain. I wanted to be able to leave the gain / volume / tone knobs in the same place, and not have drastically louder or quieter amp models when toggling through A-I-IV and B-I-IV. I wanted to set it up, with a dual latching footswitch, to be able to toggle between A and B, and reverb on/off. Then, by hand, between songs, be able to switch over to a different 'A' and different 'B' - but not cause volume spike or drop mayhem.. After swapping them around several times over the last several hours, I came up with four combinations of just a select few preamps, and a few specific cabs, and using typologies I, II and IV. I found that with typology III, it's ALOT louder, no matter which preamp is paired with it. Leaving all the volume and tone controls straight up and down, (except reverb), I was able to basically swap between A-I. A-II, A-III, A-IV with out any major volume spikes, except when using typology III! I was aiming for the sets to be A-I and B-I, both using typology I - A-II and B-II using typology II, and so forth. I did a set of typology I, one of II, and two of IV. I am going to do a microphone setting test next. Here is an easy way to audition the microphone setting - it's global on the DT edit - and I am guessing that setting is what determines the XLR DI output - whether in standalone OR when using Line6Link... Need to test that! Anyway - standalone you don't hear the mic, so try this - put the DT in low volume mode, and leave it in standby. Run the XLR out to a full range / monitor speaker, and it still sends that signal in LVM when the amp is in standby! Going to try that next. Got used to just hearing the SM57 off axis, figure it's worth test driving the other microphone configurations too!

This is a variation on an idea Radatats had a while back. I have spent today with my DT25 head+cab connected to my PC with MIDI, and I have been messing with swapping out and trying different settings on the 8 slots for amp models. If you have a DT25, and have been just using it with your HD500/HD500x, give it a try, definitely an educational experience in terms of understanding how the amp is thinking about the volumes and such between different amp models and their corresponding settings. A side on that, I noticed there are three features shown in the DTEDIT software which are labeled 'DT50 only'. Oddly, one of these - 'boost' has a noticeable impact on the volume you hear when auditioning different amps. And I checked, and can verify that this 'boost' setting carries over to the DT25 when it's not connected with MIDI. From what I understand, in the DT50 the extra 12AX7 handles this boost, but in the DT25, I think it's a digital boost of some sort. Variable 12AX7 Boost (DT50 only) You can now set the 12AX7 boost per amp model. In earlier DT50 firmware versions, some amps were boosted, some were not—now you have the option to set each one however you like. So, on the topic of JTV -> DT25, with the acoustic models: I discovered, while testing different combos of A and B pairings, by setting one of the amp models to 'no amp', and wow... Sounds about 99% better than going through any of the preamp models. That's where this is a variation on Radatats idea, he discovered this and figured out how to program it with the POD. I took that idea, and worked it into standalone mode, where you set one of the eight amp model slots to 'no amp', and then try the different typologies - IV sounds pretty good. It's worth noting, when you change between 'voicings' I-II-III-IV on the actual DT25, you are just toggling between the amp models - "voicings" as loaded/configured on it. When you are in the DTEDIT software, you are setting the amp models to the physical switches (voicing) I-II-III-IV on the DT25, AND you are also able to change the "typology" associated with each amp model 'voicing', in terms of I-II-III-IV. You don't have access to those 4 settings when in standalone mode, you have to configure them in advance. A good way to think of it, is a voicing is the pairing of an amp model preamp, and set of power amp configuration instructions for the Bogner portion of the DT25 to follow. You have control over the pentode/triode, and class a/ab settings on the amp itself, but NOT the typology settings, those must be preconfigured. Think of it like this: assign the same amp model preamp, say, Plexi Normal, to A-I, A-II, A-III and A-IV. Now, change the typology in each of those to be A-I = I, A-II = II, A-III = III and A-IV = IV. Though it's the same preamp in each, you will experience radical volume and tonal differences from each combination, IE, 'voicing'. I think some folks have sorted out ways to use a MIDI controller to trigger those additional parameter changes. Cheers!

get an AES/EBU cable for using the Line6Link! There are many options.. A standard XLR will work in the short term. Using it linked with a POD does open up a lot of options, and should make balancing the volume jumps between the amp models much easier to handle. Plus, you have access to all of the amp models, which have corresponding settings that you can tweak, pentode, triode, all that stuff. One thing to keep in mind, the 'default' input setting on the HD500 doubles the input level, so if you want to make it sound - with a single amp model - closer to the way the DT25 sounds in 'stand alone' mode, set input 1 to 'guitar' and set input 2 to something else, say variax. The caveat to that, is if you are using dual amp models, then set input 2 to 'same'. Typically I use the 'pre' versions of the amp models when making my patches for use linked to the DT25. They use less DSP, and allow the DT25 to handle the power amp side of things rather than digitally model it.

One more thing... If forum rules allow, copy the eBay listing for your gear!! There are plenty of folks here who would be happy to buy your stuff for a good price.. :)

Wow, it's even more expensive than I imagined!! $3500 for a new one on Reverb.com https://reverb.com/item/135081-fractal-audio-axe-fx-ii-xl-14-black-new-in-box I guess the thing about forum suicides as they are oft referred to, is it's just that. Suicide. Personally, I would love to have an Axe FX II, a Kemper, and keep my Line6 gear. I've realized that selling all of your 'brand A' gear to purchase 'brand B' gear doesn't usually work out very well, in terms of the value vs the price.My guess would be, a used DT25 will be at or below $500-$700 in the current market, and a used HD500x, probably around $300? Is that $$ really going to make the difference when you 'brand B' new gear is basically in the $4,000 price range? I guess so.. But the equipment itself has more value as equipment. The DT25 is still a killer amp, all by itself... And I mean, common sense would dictate, at the very least, learn how to use the HD500 as a MIDI controller for the damn Axe FX, right? But I get it. It's like they feel as if a relationship is ending, and people all have different styles for the breakup. All I can say to Gazza Bloom, is Keep Making Good Music! The gear matters not; it's a privilege and an honor to be able to make music, don't ever forget it. The gear isn't channeling that music, YOU are. The audience isn't there to see your gear, they are there for you and your music. Music, of all that Humans have invented, is likely the greatest accomplishment of the species, in all the time we've been on Earth. To quote JK Rowling by way of Albus Dumbledore: ~"Ah, music! A magic beyond all we do here!"~ Best of luck to you Gazza Bloom, and don't be a stranger! Report back with some killer sound samples, you know you want to :)

To clarify, you are using the DT25 in 'stand alone' mode? IE, plugged into the head, as opposed to using a POD linked? Assuming your DT25 head is still 'stock' and has not been reconfigured using MIDI, channels A and B are identical. Meaning typology I is the same on A and B. To clarify what typology I, II, III, and IV are - they are four different amp models. You can connect the DT25 using MIDI to a computer and reconfigure the four default amp models, and if you want you can make A I-II-III-IV different amp models from B I-II-III-IV. You can also swap up the default reverb for those eight configuration options. This feature was added with the firmware update: http://line6.com/dtv2update/ The four default amp models and their specific settings are in this thread, noted by user granding (http://line6.com/support/user/82951-grandinq/) http://line6.com/support/topic/972-hd500-as-dt25-controller-without-amp-modeling/?hl=default&do=findComment&comment=96602 Topology I Amp: Blackface Double Normal Cab: 2x12 Blackface Double Class A/B Pentode Topology II Amp: Brit P-75 Bright Cab: 4x12 Blackback 30 Class A/B Pentode Topology III Amp: Class A-30 Cab: 2x12 Silver Bell Class A Pentode Topology IV Amp: Treadplate Cab: 4x12 Tread V-30 Class A/B Pentode The 63 Spring Reverb is the default reverb for all topologies.

sweet! good to hear, looking forward to playing one

Not sure if they'll honor this price since it says out of stock, but Walmart is showing the DT50 4x12 cab for $299.... http://www.walmart.com/ip/25835604

Yeah, I take a similar approach, in terms of setting up all inputs for recording rehearsals, including basic drum mics and all that. Typically need kick drum, guitars, vocals and bass in the monitors anyway (for rehearsals), and same goes for live. Live mix always benefits from a little of the guitars, drums and bass in the mix anyway. Doing multitrack sure is fun!