ColonelForbin

So far, this idea is working great for me!!! I listened back to some recording I did, and I can actually hear it as an acoustic tone, and it's quite useable. I am personally very encouraged. I took the basic concept that radatats came up with, and tweaked it some. As I understand it, the EQ is used in place of the amp tone stack, since the amp is entirely bypassed - and it does help. Roll the bass off some and enhance the upper treble slightly. I added wah, compressor, chorus, spring reverb and a delay, assigned those to fs1-4. I made the reverb toggle between the light very subtle reverb, to a more spacious and obvious amount of verb. I messed with the mixer controls, and found that without any boost fx the mixer can be used to boost the overall level which passes into the recording, though I ended up dialing it back if I had any boost FX, or even the wah. Here are some recordings I did, please forgive the rusty / sloppy playing! Just a simple thing, with me just aimlessly noodling over a couple of simple loops. I don't know what specific settings were used, some combination of what I mentioned above, and of course built on the framework of radatats idea. I do know that I upgraded to the 2.0 firmware on the JTV, so the actual acoustic model settings are stock 2.0. The "JTV-Acoustic.mp3" is the most natural sounding, in G major. And actually isn't terrible; though I need to spend some time adjusting, overall it's a decent start! I think that was just direct off the back of the DT25. The "JTV-Am_MIX.mp3" is a slightly out of tune and more wobbly noodle / jam in Am; and the file is a mix of the direct off the DT25 and a stereo mic in front of the amp. I think the two signals are phasing each other a little bit. And the loop may have been a bit shoddy on being in tune. The "JTV-Cm_DT25" is a mix of models, not sure whether it's acoustics or what. It is the mono send from the DT25 converted into a stereo .mp3 file. I had some clipping and had to dial back the mixer channel level in the middle of that track, but overall listenable. I am looking forward to being able to spend some more time with the JTV, in particular with the Workbench HD; haven't had a chance yet to tweak the actual JTV models. Cheers! https://www.dropbox.com/s/4klbkyvsbvve5uz/JTV-Acoustic.mp3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/eoehxr2bieb3yk2/JTV-Am_MIX.mp3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ll4vhyz7iz5z45/JTV-Cm_DT25.mp3

For what it's worth, Line6 doesn't read these forums. Even the people you see with "Line6 Expert" in their name tag are not actually Line6 employees. This is a user forum, the people you are asking here are your fellow L6'ers, users like yourself. I personally own a DT25, which is a much more robust amp over the Amplifi, in terms of: - it's a real tube amp. 25 watts of tube amp is going to be louder than 150watts of solid state. - the amp models are the newer HD series - it has an XLR out - it has an FX loop - it has the L6 Link technology, which allows you to connect an HD POD to up to four DT amps. - it looks way cooler than the Amplifi ;) That being said, it's also alot more money, to invest - you would need to spend at least $2,000 for a DT25 and an HD500x, instead of $500 on an Amplfi. The DT Bogner/L6 amps weigh alot more, and do not have onboard fx, and cannot be controlled with an IOS device. There is also nothing wireless or bluetooth in the DT series. I also own the HD500 and a JTV59, and in terms of the sound volume / quality, it's top notch. I love it. You may want to decide what you actually want to DO with the amp. I'd love to have an Amplifi if I had the spare $$ - have to finish paying for the DT25 and the JTV first! lol :) For me, the Amplifi would be a fun gadget / mess around piece of gear. It's not what I would bring on stage. At home, backstage, even maybe rehearsal, for ease of portability, and the option to interface with an external floorboard, it's not too shabby. Compared to the DT50 or DT25, which is a very serious amplifier, the Amplifi is not really in the same league. I am not disparaging it, nor am I trying to talk you into or out of any options, and I definitely don't work for Line6! Give it a try, why not! Definitely read up about what the HD series is, and how it's pairing with the Bogner/Line6 DT amps is an advancement in modelling and amplifier technology over the previous X3 and prior XT series of FX. The Amplifi uses the older fx technology, the pre-HD stuff - the same stuff that was part of the XT and the X3 - approximately ten year old technology. XT was released around December 2002 and X3 came out around October 2007. The new IOS interface is pretty cool. I can see them moving that concept forward to a certain extent, but in the end since it relies so heavily on third party non-integrated platform apps to function, it turns me off. That's just my personal reaction. So, you have to factor the $500 cost of the Amplifi in to the cost of an iPhone or iPad. At the moment there is no support for Android.

Is there any info on the comparison between the Korean bridge vs something like this GraphTech, vs the bridge used in the American / USA built JTV? For instance, it does appear that one of the principal issues with the standard JTV piezo is the possibility of overloading and causing 'quack' or other unwanted noise. Does anyone know what is entailed with swapping the JTV bridge with this option, and does it work properly with the Variax system? OR for that matter, what are the buying options for purchasing a bridge (if it's different) that is offered on the USA / Custom shop JTV59 model. From the GraphTech description: "Ghost pickups contain a custom engineered piezo crystals that is encapsulated in a set of String Saver saddles. The ghost saddle pickups have a natural compression effect so you can play as hard as you want without overloading the input channel or experiencing the dreaded piezo "Quack". Pickups are individually calibrated so you get a precision-balanced set of ghost saddles, for even string to string output. Any set of ghost pickups can be used in conjunction with any ghost preamp kit as well as many others on the market."

Regarding the acoustic tones, I had some free time and the house to myself yesterday, so I was finally able to update the JTV from 1.7 to 2.0, and I was also able to mess with testing out the acoustic patches going JTV>HD500>L6Link>DT25. I want to try another idea that I had, but I can say that for the most part, a patch idea which another user (radatats) suggested does seem to work reasonably well. The basic concept is build a patch with a pre model, but then set up the amp signal chain as dual. Mute the amp pre model. In the other amp slot leave it as no amp. Apparently this bypasses all preamp functions while still allowing signal to be routed through the L6Link to the DT power amp. From what I can tell, when using this patch the channel volume on the DT and POD no longer impact the volume, and the tone stacks do nothing - which is what you want to accomplish. He suggested some ideas like an EQ set to roll off some of the bass freq and boost the treble slightly, this also helps. And adjust other FX like compressor, reverb, delay to personal taste. I did some recordings, I will need to go back and listen to see what they sound like, I did some using the HD as a soundcard, and some others using the XLR out to a standalone recorded, with mics in front of the DT. Overall, I think the issues with the acoustics have more to do with setting the models up properly for your playing style, and in all likely hood adjusting your playing style. You have to be more subtle using a Variax, pretty much across the board on all the models, electric or not, but in particular it's worth making note of the difference in what they are modelling with the electrics which model pickups plugged direct, vs the acoustics which model the sound of an acoustic guitar with a mic in front of it - a very different overall thing. My second idea for acoustic patches with an HD>DT25 type rig I haven't tested yet. Hopefully soon, but this week is looking pretty jammed up. Basically, my other thought process entailed using the FX loop send from the HD and the return on the DT. The primary concept would be to send the signal out to the DT before any preamp models occur, essentially feeding the DT poweramp with a 1/4" acoustic model + fx signal. It's not ideal, since it involves additional A/D and/or D/A conversions. I also wonder, what happens when you start switching around the combo power amp mode, vs studio/direct - since this setting cannot be saved per patch, it could get quite tiresome to have to switch that mode manually while in a gig situation.

- What Amplifi could have offered, is a wireless input. Wireless VDI would also be outstanding. - Amplifi could have used the L6Link to integrate with the HD pedal boards. - It could have featured an audio "stream in" option, using the already existing Apple technology. - It could have used 24bit Audio technology. -The Amplifi could have featured networking options, and the ability to connect to WiFi sources. - At the very *least* HD amp models and M-Class FX could be included for something claiming to be, well you know what the marketing said. You have all likely used the free Apple software that allows your iTunes library to either stream from your PC to your iPad, or allow your iPad to control the library as it plays through the computer the iTunes is on. It's called Home Sharing. It already exists, and it's free from Apple. I can listen to anything in my iTunes library with my iPad - and the songs do not need to be ON my iPad. But the audio plays through the home network. I should be able to authenticate the Amplifi to my home router, and using my iPad, send the Amplifi audio using the iTunes Home Sharing, from audio source on the PC. http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819 Last time I checked, the X3L is considered - by Line6 - to be obsolete technology, I believe the word is "Legacy". Not exactly a word we associate with anything claiming to be a reinvention. http://line6.com/legacy/podx3live "POD X3 Live are no longer made." Please check out these replacement products: HD300. HD400. HD500. The Bogner DT amps remain the real, true reinvention of the guitar amp. The analog switching component of the DT rigs is what makes them amazing. The L6 link is not too shabby either. Oh, but there is no L6Link in the Amplifi. Don't misread my bitterness, I love Line6 and their gear is incredible. Even with all the problems, they aren't just the best at what they do - they are the only who do what they do. Like Bill Graham said about the Grateful Dead, is also true about L6. This aMplifi is just disappointing more than anything, the hype... This just doesn't hang with the hype! Maybe next time, right? Think POSITIVE. :) You should all click that Behringer link. THAT amp looks impressive. 700 watts. A Dedicated DI out XLR. Proper inputs and a LINK output feature. Just as a point to point comparison. I think the really cool "idea" behind the aMplifi is the IOS remote control. I think they did way better with that idea on the Stagescape mixers. That gear looks impressive - and with a hefty price tag to match. You control the mix with the iPad, and multiple people with multiple iPads can control different aspects of the mix. And it does multi-track recording to an SD card. http://line6.com/stagescape-m20d/ This aMplifi remains a cool idea, rather than a well executed project. But who am I to judge, complain or berate! I am not forced to buy. G.A.S. is not an issue with this latest release, and that is ok. I am gonna sit this one out, and maybe next time. it's definitely a cool notion, of what an amp can be. That is in the end, more meaningful than any stumble along the way - the DIRECTION is True. http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/KXD12.aspx $349.99 -KLARK TEKNIK created the 24-bit, studio-grade effects engine for BEHRINGER -Additional XLR mic input on Channel 1 for direct connection of dynamic microphones -Dedicated 7-band graphic EQ for awesome sound shaping -Full 4-channel stereo operation with separate Volume and FX Send per channel -Link output allows linking to a slave amplifier for true stereo operation - The Link Output allows you to add a second KXD12 with a single mic cable, creating a versatile 1400-Watt portable stereo PA system. -Subwoofer output for ultimate low-end power -Bi-amped 700-Watt 4-channel PA System / Keyboard Amplifier

I ended up ordering one of each; 20' from BestTronics, and whatever the length is of the Musicians Friend / Line6 cable. I concur, the cable they ship with the JTV is only half there, though it's useful in terms of connecting to the VDI interface box, since the one end is unshielded. This way I will have two cables with full shielding / locking, for those "just in case" moments. Will report back when they have both arrived, and I will post a direct comparison! Cheers ya'all, and thanks for the quick feedback!

What length did you end up going with? Sounds like you did 20', which is as you said $30. I am reading odd things about the $30 Line6 cable that is sold in the links above.. Thanks!

Anyone have a VDI cable I can get in the USA? Anyone use this or have any feedback on it's quality? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Line-6-Variax-Digital-Cable-102966157-i1129074.gc $34.99 Line 6 Variax Digital Cable http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/line-6-variax-digital-cable US $29.99 Line 6 Variax Digital Cable Thanks!!

In regard to those who have the JTV-HD-DT trio, and are struggling with the acoustic tones, give this idea a try - patch design / concept by radatats I can confirm that Customtone is All messed Up. If you click a tone name, it takes you to an ad for the new Line6 amp "Amplifi"... And you cannot search by the name that the tone is actually called, you can however sort it by 'author', and page by page down from 'Z' until you get to R.. I put his source tone in the zip, and I also made 5 edited versions, where I assigned the JTV models to Acoustic 1-5, and also assigned the footswitches FS1-4 to the FX he had in place. In the edit patches, the FS= FS1 = toggle between the two EQ's FS2 = analog chorus FS3 = cave verb FS4 = plate verb ----------- - Set input to Variax, same. (you may need to change from global to preset which may mean checking all your other patches) - make a dual channel setup with Fliptop pre amp in channel A with no cab, change topology to III. (topology III changes the physical settings in the power section and just gets that nice sort of resonance you would expect from an acoustic) - no amp in channel B. - in the mixer Mute channel A, channel B to 0 or higher if needed, and center both channels. - place Tile reverb as last effect in chain. - place a graphic EQ in the pre section with the two lower sections set to -2db, top 2 knobs to +1db. (adjust to taste, this worked for my cab) We are not running through the flip top at all. We are only using it to "lock" the DT from switching to the amp in channel B and to control the physical topology. By placing no amp in channel B and muting channel A in the POD we effectively send the clean "unamped" acoustic guitar signal straight to the DT power section through channel B! We also have to change the input to Variax-Same to ensure that our signal is passed to channel B... This setup provides the clean, unprocessed guitar signal from our Variax straight to the DT power section without ANY amp sims... PS this is more easily done in HD Edit... I would post a link to the patch but custom tone is AFU. If you want to search for it I uploaded it as Rads Acoustic DT... ------------------------------ RadsAcoustic DT.zip

That new Strat with the "personality cards" and solderless wiring looks like an interesting concept. http://techandgadgetnews.com/namm-2014-fender-american-deluxe-strat-personality-card-video/ http://www.fender.com/series/american-deluxe/american-deluxe-strat-plus-maple-fingerboard-mystic-3-color-sunburst/ "The remarkable new American Deluxe Strat® Plus guitar is the next step in the evolution of that great tradition, giving you three Stratocaster guitars in one with an innovative design featuring easily interchangeable “personality cards†that instantly give you a wealth of versatile pickup and circuitry configurations. One card comes in the guitar and delivers standard Stratocaster pickup wiring; two extra personality cards are included and let you “re-wire†the guitar with specialized pickup and circuitry modifications quickly and easily. Simply pop the color-coded cards in and out of the easy-access compartment in the back, and you’ve just modded your Strat in record time. Further, the American Deluxe Strat Plus features fully solder-less electronics that literally make other great circuit mods a snap."

I noticed that Fender has got some new technology going in their strat deluxe plus; not sure if this was released at NAMM or prior, but it represents an interesting concept. I wonder if this is the first of many companies to follow the lead set by Variax. I mean, consider the possibility of Line6 Variax technology being available as an option on a high end USA Fender instrument, or a Gibson. The ideas on this new Fender guitar are definitely cool, the ability to swap pickups with a quick change plug, and the "personality card" insert option. Definitely intriguing! http://www.fender.com/series/american-deluxe/american-deluxe-strat-plus-maple-fingerboard-mystic-3-color-sunburst/ "The remarkable new American Deluxe Strat® Plus guitar is the next step in the evolution of that great tradition, giving you three Stratocaster guitars in one with an innovative design featuring easily interchangeable “personality cards†that instantly give you a wealth of versatile pickup and circuitry configurations. One card comes in the guitar and delivers standard Stratocaster pickup wiring; two extra personality cards are included and let you “re-wire†the guitar with specialized pickup and circuitry modifications quickly and easily. Simply pop the color-coded cards in and out of the easy-access compartment in the back, and you’ve just modded your Strat in record time. Further, the American Deluxe Strat Plus features fully solder-less electronics that literally make other great circuit mods a snap."

Yeah, I was worried when they started talking about reinventing the amplifier.. I am glad they didn't! I use the DT25 so it's marginally lighter. I want to get another one.. Gotta pay for this one first! Same for the JTV actually, god bless these web companies that offer payment plans :) Yeah, I mean - it would be pretty cool.. They could launch an HD-Bass POD series built on the same architecture as the HD500 / 500x. I used to love using my X3L for bass; would be so much cooler as a "Dream Bass Rig". Something about how the JTV talks to the HD which talks to the DT. They could launch the BT bass amp series! And like how they partnered with Bogner for the DT, they could team up with MarkBass for the BT!

100%!!!!! I just got the DT, and I honestly have no clue why I waited SOOOO LONG. I've had the HD500 since 2010, and while I love it standalone, and the tones literally make the X3 tones OBSOLETE. Pairing that with the DT and a JTV is definitely the best the HD will ever sound. The A-to-D conversion going on in the JTV is superior to the A-to-D happening in the HD500, so while a regular guitar to the HD to a DT will sound good or great, the JTV sounds AMAZING. Using the onboard mags or the models, this this sings. Now, this Variax Bass you speak of... What a cool idea!!!! JTV Bass Model ideas anyone? Imagine what you could do with a 6 string James Tyler Variax Bass!! - 1977 Fender P-Bass - The Funk Machine P-Bass (James Jamerson, the legendary bass of Motown) - Alembic Starfire - 1963 Hofner Beatle Bass - Modulus Q5-TBX - Modulus Quantum 5-EMG - Languedoc Dragon Bass - 1977 Fender Jazz Bass - 1964 Rickenbacker 4001 - 1963 GIbson EB3 - Guild Starfire - Steinberger XL-2 - 1959 Danelectro Longhorn - 1977 Music Man Stingray

Regarding my confusion about "F-": Yeah, I am an idiot/newbie.... Just took a closer look at the settings, and there it is clearly marked "Variax 600/700, etc", and another setting for James Tyler.... DUH!! hahahaha :)

Yeah, I am an idiot/newbie.... Just took a closer look at the settings, and there it is clearly marked "Variax 600/700, etc", and another setting for James Tyler.... DUH!! hahahaha :)

Very, very, very VERY Cool!! I haven't had much time to dig in with the acoustics, but they are a big part of why I wanted a JTV in the first place. This is awesome! Thank you, thank You! :)

Brilliant! So, I guess, technically, you can use pretty much any amp model in that slot, since it's a muted placeholder? Or, does choosing the FlipTop do some power amp configurations that are advantageous to the acoustic resonance? (IE, choosing the typology III while technically not using the FlipTop PRE, is still doing power amp switching which varies from amp model to amp model). I think I need to get my wife out of the house really soon, so I can test this out!!! :) Thanks, really well thought out solution indeed!!!

Could you explain the thinking here a little bit? I am guessing this is how you accomplish bypassing the portions of the amp modelling that do not place nice with the acoustic, but how is this working with amp A muted? I apologize, I am not able to plug in an try this out at the moment, but I can create / edit patches offline.. By muted, do you mean to leave the amp model "on" and the channel volume up, but in the mixer set it to "mute"?

Yes! Good call using the FlipTop, I dig it. That's exactly what I was hoping to achieve, I just wasn't sure if the rig would actually allow a "no amp" setting to occur - I would imagine if you define no amp with the HD500, then the DT uses whatever amp is set on the actual amp itself. I am thinking you are on to something.. And with that option, looper can stay in POST, and the L6Link remains the primary signal feed which is ideal. I am guessing the FlipTop model works well with acoustics, since it's designed to be a more 'full range' amp model designed for bass frequency. One question - do you know what the difference between "F-ACOUSTIC-1" AND "ACOUSTIC-1" is? Most/all of the Variax models also show these "F-" versions in HD edit... I was wondering at first if that was for "force" or "full", or "Front", or some setting option on the pickup selector. I have been searching the forums, and posting this question, reading manuals, and generally digging, but not seeing what I am looking for. I created some basic patches using the 1/4" FX loop idea, for what it's worth, here they are in a .zip file. JTV-HD-DT_FX Loop_Acoustic-and-Reso.zip

Here are some hastily concocted (offline) HD500 patches with those "acoustic-1" vs "f-acoustic-1" Variax settings. (.zip file attached) These patches are all set up identically with the one variation being the Variax model setting. I have no clue how they will sound or if these will even work. The intention is to send a 1/4" cable from the HD500 Fx Loop SEND to the DT25 Fx Loop RETURN in order to bypass the amp modelling and preamp stages, and essentially tap the direct feed from the JTV into the DT power amp. This would be with the HD500>DT25 also having the L6Link connected, but ideally in this setup, that feed is bypassed in favor of skipping the preamp models. I have left the fx banks all in the 'off' position. Not sure if this is correct either, I set the FX loop block send to 0db and the mix to 100%. I chose random settings for the four FX blocks controlled by FS1-4, so no clue if they will be even remotely dialed in (hence leaving them in the off position) FS1=tube comp FS2=analog chorus FS3='63 spring reverb FS4=dynamic delay EXP1=fassel wah set to 72% mix JTV-HD-DT_FX Loop_Acoustic-and-Reso.zip

Expanded example - "F-Reso-1" vs "Reso-1" There is also an "F-R" for a couple models, such as "F-R-Billy-3"

Question: What is the difference between "F-Acoustic-1" and "Acoustic-1"? I am working on some patches in the HD500 editor, and I noticed when I go to the Variax settings, it is showing me options for the Variax models, is there a distinction to be made between the "F-Acoustic-1" and the "Acoustic-1", for example? There is an "F-" prefix for each Variax model, and another without the "F-" prefix. Thanks!

A follow up question: I started making some sample patches using the HD editor offline, and I encountered a strange option within the Variax page on the patch editor. Does anyone know what the difference between the models in the Variax settings on the HD are, between the models with the 'F' prefix, vs those without? As in, if I want the patch change to force the model change on the Variax, what would be the difference between these options: For example, what is the difference? "F-Reso-1" vs. "Reso-1" "F-Acoustic-1" vs "F-Acoustic-1" etc. There is an "F-" version of every Variax model shown in HD Edit. Does that mean "full" or "force" or "fancy" or "flawed" ;)

So, has anyone come up with a good way to insert the JTV into the DT25 FX loop - while using acoustic models on the JTV going VDI into an HD500? My primary questions would be: - If you send the signal out of the HD500 fx send prior to hitting the amp block, and run that 1/4" into the DT25 FX return, will you get a signal that in theory should be routed direct to the power amp in? - And, will this or any other signal plugged only to the Return on the DT25 also be routed OUT of the DT25 XLR out DI? It would seem you could make patches that would as a result of not coming back to the HD500 skip the preamp portion of the signal path, however this also essentially defeats the L6Link between the HD and the DT. Last question- -Is there a better way to bypass the pre-amp portions of the modelling using some other method? Is there a way to choose no amp in the HD500, and also not use a pre-amp model in the DT? I would guess that since the VDI to HD500 is still being used, you still benefit from the clarity of signal path achieved by going VDI to Hd, rather than for instance, 1/4" out from the JTV to a 1/4" input. As near as I can tell from looking at the HD500 editor, you should be able to move as many FX blocks into the PRE amp stage, with one exception - the Looper. I suppose you could set the looper to PRE, and then still be able to use it, despite the looper then being impacted by all the FX blocks set before the FX loop out. Here is how I imagine you would program this patch: Looper (pre) > FX1 > FX2 > FX3 > FX4 > FX loop [send] > to DT25 FX loop [return] Happy Tuesday, Everyone, and Thanks!

Regarding setting up an alternate signal route when using the acoustic models on JTV>HD500>DT25 : I had a similar thought to what Zap said, and was wondering earlier today if that would work! Question: does the DT have an fx loop return, and can that signal from the POD FX loop out be sent to the DT to bypass the amp modelling and go direct into the power amp? and if some variation of this is feasible, does that signal then also get routed out the XLR DI out from the DT25?>