roscoe5

Just a glimmer of acoustic hope and gentle prod to Line 6 :) http://line6.com/spider-v/ Spider V doesn’t just sound great with electric guitars—it absolutely shines with acoustics. Enhanced acoustic presets are designed with Variax® acoustic technology to bring out the best tonal qualities of your acoustic guitar. Dialed-in effects like delay and reverb will help you take an average acoustic sound to a higher level. Spider V delivers acoustic tone with depth and clarity that regular electric amps just can’t match.

Yeah, what cruisinon2 said. Depends if you want to haul a rack or not. There are plenty of small SS power amp options. I like the Crate Powerblock because it's 150W at 8ohms and fits in my Helix backpack along with my floor version of Helix. The ISP Stealth small power amp could work too I bet as well as some of these micro bass heads with effects return jack. http://www.isptechnologies.com/portfolio/stealth-power-amp/ My Mesa Walkabout bass amp sounds really great with Helix into its effects return but is bigger than the Crate. It sounds a feels a touch better than the Crate though. I go back and forth on them depending if I'm a tone snob that day or want convenience ;). Seriously, try to get your hands on any SS power amp from a friend or something to try with your cab. I guess GC and some other music stores have good return policies too though. A/B it with your Laney amp too. You never know, that amp has some nice headroom and may have a pretty neutral power section. Oh, and don't be too scared about running a SS power amp with more wattage than guitar cab. You should be running them at well below max to avoid clipping and nastiness.

Most solid state power amps, both external rack-type and internal built into speakers (PA and FRFR), are considered to have linear/flat/neutral response. This means they should pass whatever signal is fed into them an purely amplify it with not sound coloration of their own. This is great for current gen modelers like Helix that capture a tube amp's sound and feel. This can work well with both traditional guitar cabs and full range speakers. Few tube amps are considered flat or neutral, especially guitar amps. Much of a guitar amp's tone comes from its power section. Fryette Powerstation and Line 6 Spider Valve were designed to pass a modeler's full amp models through to a guitar cab. They attempt to additionally keep the tube amp/guitar cab interaction (dampening, impedance curve, etc.) that you got from playing a traditional tube amp into a cab. This is more something a player can feel under their fingers and blowing his pant legs standing in front of a traditional guitar cab that anything the audience would hear or notice.

I meant to post these earlier, but here are the presets I made that pair the Helix preamps and amps with the corresponding DT default amp topology for the 30 HD amps that come with DT. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/49muh8joz4m35ui/AACP3cAXYnijw0uVQGrwUmjqa?dl=0 Use these with 1/4" out of Helix into Effects Return (Power Amp in) of DT. I basically send MIDI CC19=0 to switch to Ch A and MIDI CC 12=1 thru 30 to select the default DT amp topo settings for each amp type. Going 1/4" into DT bypasses the internal HD amp modelling and eliminates the need to turn off DT amp models, cabs and mics via MIDI. Note that Preamps folder contains Helix preamps and the Amps folder contains Helix full amp models. You will want to run the Helix main volume at about 50% up for the preamp presets and 25% up for the amp presets. Of course there are more Helix amps than the 30 DT HD amps, but I thought this was a good first pass to get the low hanging fruit. These are very simple with just the Helix preamp or amps and some level adjustments to try to even them out patch to patch. You can add your own drives, effects, signal splits to XLR/cab-IR models to PA/monitors/recording, etc. When using Helix full amp models, many find changing DT topology really isn't necessary. You can park DT on Class A/B, Pentode, and Topo of your choice. I personally like Topo II for this. Just unplug the MIDI cable with these presets and set DT manually.

Having gone through (what I think is) a similar transition to the OP, Helix into a power amp into his Mesa cab may be a near seamless transition in his gigging modern rock band. Especially if the other axe slingers haven't gone to modelers yet. He could set up all of his patches for this rig to start and later add cabs/IRs/eq as he evolves and/or wants to record. There are some great Mesa Cab IR's out there from 3Sigma, Ownhamer, and others that probably match his physical Mesa Cab (Recto, Traditional, Road King, etc.). A Crate Powerblock is a great, inexpensive option to get him going. It's good to have as a backup if he moves on or he can easily get his money back out of it. I have to say I don't know much about the Laney Ironheart. It uses a 120W 6L6 power section (which is a lot of clean headroom) and may be somewhat neutral. I know a lot of Mesa and Marshall tone comes from their power sections. But maybe the Laney leans more on the preamps. If so, he may not need to get anything. I would try Helix full amps into the Laney power section>Mesa cab and A/B with Helix into any solid state amp he can get his hands on>Mesa cab, studio monitors or headphones (with similar Mesa cab block or IRs). This is how I figured out that my Mesa amps and L6 DT50 were NOT neutral, but my L6 Spider Valve and Crate Powerblock were. Researching the Laney Ironheart, I came across the $399 IRT-X FRFR speakers. He could do some cool wet/dry/wet stuff with a pair of these and his existing tube IRT amp, even without using IR's or cab models, as they go between your amp & cab and tap that signal and interaction. He could just use them alone now or in the future also. They are a pretty cool concept. http://www.laney.co.uk/products/irt-x/

All the gory MIDI details... http://line6.com/support/manuals/dt25hd DT Amplifier MIDI Implementation Guide

Most of what I play on guitar is heavier modern rock as well. Helix preamps into your Laney power amp should sound good to start. But the different Helix pres may likely sound more similar through your Laney than you care for. I started with 4cm Helix pres into the power amp of a Mesa Recto, Mark V, Stiletto, and Simul 290. Each of them had their own coloration and none were really neutral enough to run Helix full amp models. There are more differences between Helix full amp models, and frankly full amp models sound best to me. You can pretty much run Helix full amp models into any solid state amp into a guitar cab (Crown QSC, etc.). So maybe you can get your hands on one to try it. If you like it, a Crate Powerblock can be had for $100-$150 and fits in the Helix backpack pouch. Even if you don't use it long term, its a great backup amp for the stable. A Line 6 HD147 is intriguing as it is 300W, 150W stereo, with switchable impedance for full power at different cab loads (rare for solid state) and looks cool to boot. It has stereo effects returns which should work great for Helix. Now if you try solid state and it lacks the last bit of tube flavor you can't live without (tube amp/cab interaction), you can go for a neutral tube power amp like the Fryette Power Station (I want) or Line 6 Spider Valve (I haveand curently use). These can take the Helix full amp models with very little of their own coloration. Spider Valve was made to take Line 6 POD X3 full amp models into its neutral 100W 6L6 power section. Fryette Power Station was designed to take an attenuated real tube amp signal or modeler through its neutral 6L6 power section into a guitar cab. Note that Line 6 DT amps (I own a DT50) were designed for POD HD preamps and Helix preamps (recommended by Helix manual). I much prefer Helix full amp models into Spider Valve over Helix preamps into DT. By going Helix full amp models>power amp>real guitar cab, you eliminate 50% + of the learning curve and frustrations trying to get a good tone since you are not dealing with cab/mic blocks or IRs. The most difficult, and often initially discouraging thing to deal with are those cab models and IRs. Don't get me wrong, there are good sounds to be had with them. There is just quite a bit to learn about them coming from a physical tube rig. It can eat your lunch and take many hours of trial and testing to discover what you like. Almost every default Helix amp model into my Spider Valve>Mesa 212 sounds great right out of the chute. Then just a little tweaking from there gets me what I need. I've let go of the cab models and IR's and just let the sound guy mic my cab or mic it myself. I will definitely say that I wouldn't go back to my Mesa amps and old stomps after Helix/Spider Valve. I fire them up from time to time, but just smile ear to ear when I go back to Helix/SV. Maybe one day I will go FRFR or amp-less. But the guys in the band still play traditional amps and are loud in our jam space. So a traditional guitar cab works great for me right now.

Thanks guys. I may pull the trigger on a 3S acoustic pack or two then and break out the acoustic live again.

I'm assuming an soundhole rubber feedback buster in a standard piezo-acoustic would have little to no effect on the IR sound, has anyone tried this? I had issues in the past sometimes with feedback and a real acoustic and would have to use the buster. My band's stage volume tends to be high, and the 15" JBL Eon monitors don't help.

I know the L6 L2 series will work well for Helix and PA, but are any of you having success with studio monitors as well? I'm having a hard time justifying other guitar-based FRFR speakers as I already have a few of guitar cabs (aka Helix custom IR generators) that I don't want to part with. The L2m's would definitely be an upgrade to my M-Audio BX5's and I actually have room for them. Here's a Line 6 article I found... http://line6.com/news/general/1508/

Just for fun, I ran the Helix Brit 2204 amp into an Amplitube 4 Brit 8000 cab. 1/2 of the cab is SM57 with Seventy 80 speakers and the other half is a Ribbon 121 mic with V30 speakers. I place the AT4 IR out with the Mesa 212 IR and R5 SP JCM800 preset. Note that with the AT4 IR, I think the preset sounds better with the para eq off. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5aibsur3rl9r3cq/AABAu_rFwpK7xSf9aJIJOFfHa?dl=0 AT4_Marsh800_S80_V30_D57_R.wav Soundcloud clip https://soundcloud.com/michael-potts-995394155/r5-sp-jcm800-at4-cab

Ha, yeah...I did get the main inspiration from your request and the video but I couldn't help myself tuning it to my taste ;) There should be plenty of room to bring the lows down 1-2db in the para eq or add some low or hi cuts on the IR block if you like. I do have to thank you for the video and inspiration though. It was a worth while effort. This patch just replaced my old JCM800 one.

Caught a bit of a break and made a quick soundcloud clip with my patch, IR, and LP... https://soundcloud.com/michael-potts-995394155/r5-sp-jcm800 Add to the list "bite" & "balls" :)

Yeah, those are cool. I like the multi-amp and cab concept. Hard to really tell from the Youtube video, but I think my patch with the IR is a bit livelier. You can take some top end off in the IR high cut if you like, but I actually liked the highs on the IR wide open in this patch. Seems to let some nice harmonics through. It's pretty responsive to the presence control on my guitar. Maybe of note, I set this up using my Gibson LP 68 Reissue. Those 68 custom pickups are fairly bright and hot.

Zooey, I think I heard and know what you are going for. In the video he talks about the pop of the cab and the ring of the of the upper strings against the mids. This is something I get with my EL34 Mesa Stiletto Deuce II (hot rod JCM/Plexi clone), and even my EL34 Line 6 DT50. I noticed the OH G65 cab was also marked V30. With these two pieces of info, I went to my Mesa 212 IR I created using my Stiletto EL34 power section. This should give you a bit of cranked EL34 into V30 cab impedance curve too. I only had about 15 mins for this today, but check this out. R5 SP JCM800.hlx MesRec212_2ioaD_ST_EL34.wav https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5aibsur3rl9r3cq/AABAu_rFwpK7xSf9aJIJOFfHa?dl=0

No, honestly I haven't tried to match it but it could be fun. I'll give it a go.

Assuming you are using Helix cabs and not IRs, try a mono parametric eq block after a dual cab block using different mics in each cab. There are a few factory Helix presets in the 055-070 numbers in the Factory 1 setlist that can be good examples. This can help IR'S too though.

Yeah, the Yamaha HS7 studio monitors should be great with Helix at home. I think a few people here use the HS series.

Hey Zooey, wanna try getting there with Helix amps into Amplitube cabs? You can turn off the amps in AT4. If you get something close, you could send me the AT4 preset with the cabs set up how you want and I will IR it for you.

Sounds really great, and a great concept. I can think of dual path methods that might work, but that would be some serious trial and testing. We'll probably get some good proposals from the users too. But I must say an "easy button" for this as a single L6 Helix effect would be nice.

Off topic a bit, but I can't help but wonder if Line 6 couldn't/isn't making a Variax HX pack and maybe custom piezo retrofit kits with VDI interface for user guitars and basses. Or just release HX intrument packs for use with any mag or piezo pickups like 3 Sigma has done. Of course spending a little now for $10 3 Sigma packs is no biggie and supports a good group of guys. I'm a cheap a$$ though and will probably wait until they have 6 packs I want so I can get the 20% discount ;)

It is really cool that 3 Sigma addressed the need for pro AG IRs. My hack ones were okay and I was about to make an upright bass one. But the 3 Sigma videos elude to upcoming URB, mandolin, etc. So I'm shelving that project as that would be more than $10 worth of time and frustration :) I have a couple of piezo and mag pickup options for my URB to use with a 3 Sigma micd URB IR. Can't use a mic live without feedback, and mic'd URB is the sweetest thing. Maybe I will still make some micd URB IR'S for piezo and mag pickups for comparisons.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that these presets were the end all-be all. I'm not actually using them either. I just thought that they would have been a better starting place to me when I first got Helix for my styles and closer in design to what took me months to reach on my own research and testing. My takeaway from these at my current evolutionary stage was learning a bit about parametric eq settings post cabs when I was previously using 10 band eq post cabs and a little confirmation on my own patch designs. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, or you just don't know where to start when getting a new device. I'll tell ya I was stubborn and I was not about to drop additional cash on 3rd party presets and IR's after I spent $1500 on Helix. I built my own patches and made my own IR's to get what I wanted...bent Helix to my will. The patches that I listed would have gotten me in the ballpark and gave me a better jumping off point personally.

This seems like a no brainer.

I posted this on other threads, but the line in on the Crate Powerblocks DO HAVE A CAB SIM on them, just like the schematics in the CPB manual show. I run 1/4" stereo out of the Helix Phones jack, y splitter to L/R male RCA into the CD Inputs of the Crate Powerblock, then into a Mesa 2x12. No Helix Cabs/IR's on that path. There is much more clarity on the CPB CD inputs. You can definitely hear it when you compare CD Inputs with the Line inputs.