roscoe5

Thanks for dignifying my question with a good response mileskb!

I still run with no cabs into that Mesa 2x12 and mic it. Sounds great with V30 speakers. So many threads in the past say the CPB manual has an "confirmed" error showing cab sims on the line ins. I will say they are somewhat subtle, not like a Helix cab or IR, but they are definitely there. I didn't catch what kind of speakers are in your 2x12 cabs. If they are brighter speakers, then the CPB cab sims actually may be pleasing and part of the overall "cab" sound of your rig since they are in the signal chain after the Helix amp models. You are micing you cabs anyway, so it will work fine and be consistent to the PA either way. It sounds like you have been playing the CPBs and those 2x12 cabs this way for years and may be tuned to that sound, and that will be fine. Now if you want to try to put Helix Cabs and IRs through your rig, I would definitely go into the CD Inputs. You probably won't want to double dip cab sims.

Ugh, my Helix is a dirty girl. I should give her the once over...

Hey man, just wanted to make sure you caught my reply about trying the CD Inputs instead of the 1/4" line inputs, which have cab sims in them, on the Crate Power blocks. It made a huge difference with Helix for me.

Just having a little fun with ye olde Helix, bending it to my will ;) I think this is like a lo-res manual attempt at eq/amp match. Im not sure if maybe I could do better with a parametric block. You can actually nail it running the Helix patch through a DAW with eq match capable plug+ins. Too bad you can't just import that eq curve straight into Helix. You can manually transfer similar settings to the current Helix eq blocks though. Of course, you can make an impulse response of the DAW eq curve (amp match, imprinting, etc.), but that defeats the purpose not using IR's. To be honest, it helped me understand some of the frequencies that i didnt care for in the Helix cabs and adjust them to be similar to the IR's that I did like. Cutting 500Hz was the biggest impact for me. In the end, i think I actually got a tone with a Helix Dual Cab block and eq I liked better than the original IR that I previously Ioved.

Ha, sorry. Wasn't trying to start trouble. Reading through some more posts, my question even seems a bit off-topic now. Carry on. I'll go back to silently watching you all-in FRFR guys with your greener grass rigs from the other side of the tube fence :)

Good posts on the constency factor of FRFR. It seems there is some agreement in this from you guys. To me without owning FRFR, it seemed maybe guitar cabs would have been more consistent. Can anyone comment on FRFR feel vs tube amps/guitar cabs? Fryette goes into great length on this in a 4 video series with various modelers and his "FRFR" capable, neutral 50w x 2(100W bridged) LXII amp on Youtube. The 50w x 1 Fryette Power Station is also marketed as uber-transparent for modeler use. He talks a lot about SS amp low impedence vs the high impedence of tube amps and the reactive interaction with guitar speaker cabs (impedence curves, damping, etc.). He never gets into the SS amps into tuned full range speakers as in an FRFR system though.

Messing around with Line 6 HX Cabs and the 10 band EQ trying to get them into IR territory to maybe start getting away from IR's. I started with my favorite Studiocat Friedman 2x12 IR. I posted a basic Line 6 2204 Mod preset with Snapshots 1/2 to A/B the StudioCat Friedman 2x12 - RE20_2 IR and the Line 6 2x12 Interstate HX cab with 20 Dynamic (EV RE 20) mic at 2". Both are 2x12 cabs with vintage 30 speakers. This is my favorite StudioCat Friedman IR and favorite Helix cab. They both sound great with all Helix amps to me. I think I could have gotten the HX cab closer with a 31-band eq, but I actually really like the HX cab with some post eq tweaks. A Dual HX Cab with both 2x12 Interstate cabs with different mics and the mono 10-band eq block to sum the stereo is killer! But I tried to keep the HX cab as close to the Studiocat IR as possible for the comparison. Snap 1: Single HX Cab + 10 band EQ Snap 2: IR Snap 3: Dual HX Cab + (mono) 10 Band EQ I posted both the preset and the IR for convenience since the IR was free on this forum from Studiocat (thanks again...very generous!). I left the looper block in front so you can loop a riff, change snaps, and change amps easily to experiment and compare. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1s6l7rkd5m4hmux/AADvo8ILTRUxG_gF2SECh0EJa?dl=0

Despite some of the negativity, in think there are some good points in this thread. There are a lot of older, pre-modern-FRFR Fractal threads where solid state amps EV 12L speakers were preferred for their flat response. You can see this in the spec sheets of the EVs. I've often considered putting a pair in my Mesa 212 and running just a single path with cabs/IRs to FOH and stage. I worry a bit about the Recto 212 cab itself coloring too much for full range though. I personally haven't gotten along with Helix through stage monitors and L2 at close range pointed up at me I think because of the split sound from the tweeter. Its really harsh unless i get way back from it. Studio monitors and headphones sound fine, and of course PA. If I do go on later to try a real FRFR rig, it would probably be the Mission Gemini with coaxial Eminence Beta 12CX speakers and the eMpower eq feature that adjusts the response between flat and tradional guitar cab. I do also agree with other posts about giving the FOH a good, consistent sound to your close range stage sound. I tried my best to IR my own cab as it would be best dual micd and send that IR path to FOH, even though I'm using the physical version of that cab on stage. But yeah, if i had a Variax with acoustic models and a bunch of synth or organ type effects, I'd probably go to FRFR...take the red pill and enter the Matrix...there is no spoon :)

Ha, I just put one of my lo-fi telephone mic guitar cab IRs in a snapshot. It going to make for a really cool song break or intro. I was using it in a different preset, but gave it up after snapshots. Now its back in play! Thanks for the tip CF!!!

Oh wow, this is crazy. These may seem like basic or dumb suggestions, but they are all I can think of... 1. When you just hover your mouse pointer over a path line in the Helix editor, it should put a little gray preview square where it would put a block if you clicked there (it turns white when you click) See pic below. Even using the keyboard arrow buttons moves the little square around on the paths in the Helix editor. Does this even work for you? https://goo.gl/photos/oCRVsrvRN5X8BwyZ6 2. Is Helix plugged into a USB 3.0 port and not a 2.0 port on your computer. These are usually marked "SS" for super speed. Sometimes this can cause issues. 3. Try a different USB port for your mouse 4. Try a different mouse 5. Do you have more than one pointing device (mouse, etc. plugged into your computer. 6. In Helix app Help>About it says that it was develped using Qt software. From their website, it seems that it may utilize Open GL, Direct X and hardware acceleration. Is your Windows OS up to date? What version are you running? Is your graphics driver up to date? 7. Have you tried rolling back and re-updating the Helix Firmware Helix Application Pilots Guide lists a bunch of keyboard shortcuts. Maybe you can try some of these to rule out the mouse or the Helix App as the issue. http://line6.com/data/6/0a06439c4dbd577d594db0bd0/application/pdf/Helix%20App%20Pilots%20Guide%20-%20Rev%20B%20-%20English%20.pdf

Yeah, cant do that with Helix cabs. There was definitely some Line 6 thought into the IR slot method.

On another note, I do wish CustomTone would let you update a patch file. I think you have to just delete and make a new one. I've got some old ones up there I need to replace.

Indeed.

Very cool. Will give them a shot!

A little credit in the notes would be cool. I think it's actually collaborative, flattering to the patch OP and somewhat forwarding for multiple people to tweak and potentially improve a patch. . Just a direct copy and post is senseless unless say the name or info about it was inaccurate, offensive or just useless. Still then credit should be given. "Sorry Bob, this is an awesome patch, but a Fender clean patch really shouldnt be named Kitty Massacre". Consider this...what if we started a sticky thread for list of the top 20 artists/type tones needed. Then posted corresponding patches with say HUG (Helix user group) as a prefix, middle naming stayed constant, and the user handle and version sequence for a suffix when the patch was modded. It would give us a place to post feedback, put up sound clips, images, etc. too since you can't do it on Custom Tone. Maybe we could also agree on a single site, folders, and naming convention for our HUG custom IR library

Oh dear Lord, real DT integration please!

That's true. I do use some acoustic IRs I created of my acoustic guitar on a couple of song breaks. They never get swapped out though. There is certainly room for improvement on the Helix IR scheme. It's no good when a seemingly simple update procedure can break your patches if you are not careful.

This is exactly the reason I IR'd my own Mesa stage cabs with multiple mics and the exact amp(s) I use with it. My FOH IR is a mix of two mics/positions of my own cab. With this approach, I can actually play a few rare gigs where no amp is allowed and have the same sound too (casino, etc.). I have Helix IR slot 1 on all of my patches and can just put in the IR of the amp/cab I am using for a gig. If I'm using the small 1x12 open back combo, then I put that IR mix in slot 1. If I'm using the 2x12 Recto, I put that in 1. Sometimes I don't care and leave the 2x12. It's flexible. This is totally my personal preference and I understand it's not everyone's, but I actually didn't really feel compelled to have different cab/IR blocks on every patch to craft my tones. I do have a love for the V30 speaker and any other cab/IR model sounds odd to me, so for me this works well. I feel I have plenty of variety with Helix amps, drives, EQ's, etc. without swapping cabs, as it did with physical multiple Mesa amps into the same cab pre-Helix. I think there is a tonal consistency for me/band/audience/sound man gained by locking in on a good core cab/IR block(s). Of course you dont HAVE to make your own and can certainly find a cab or IR similar to yours, or just go old skool and mic the cab.

Ooh, I see the Line 6 M9 on there. How is that working out with MIDI for you? I've thought about bringing in my M5 for the effects that Helix doesnt have yet. It would be nice if we could tempo clock sync the Helix and M5/9/13.

Ha, no doubt. We definitely have a tech-savvy group here. Get a bunch of engineers in a room and tell them to design a box ;) I think we were having a bit of fun with this one. mileskb, I definitely can see from your write up how the current Helix IR system could be a constraint to 3rd party patch importing, swapping and management. I haven't jumped into the 3rd party patch game and have pulled back from 3rd party IR's. I prefer to build, know and control every moving part of my sound (no offense, it's a personality trait). I prefer my own IR's, which are basically tone matches of my Mesa cabs and amps applied to similar Helix amp models. Very few were biting on them when I threw them out there earlier this year, and granted it was a flood of random, unorganized experiments. But tone match IR's seem to make sense to the master patch builders and their users now. I guess I never incorporated the golden ones into a patch pack like Fremen and Glenn. Ah well, not trying to capitalize on it, was just trying to help out the community. Wonder if any of them are "free sources" for the patch masters ;)

Agreed. Thank you Line 6 for putting such great sound and so much flexibility and capability into a single easy to use package. Please don't mistake my ever changing fickle rig configurations, IR madness, and flood of Ideascale ideas for discontent with Helix. That's just the way I'm wired...especially with so many options and possibilities :)

Interesting. I never noticed it before. I'll have to test it myself tomorrow in a new patch.

Appologies in advance if this was previously mentioned. Helix app will read in an IR *.wav file's title by default. If it is null/blank, it will bring in the file name. Note that when you export IR's from the Helix app, it populates the file title with the name that appeared in Helix. At that point, you could rename the file whatever you want, but the file title will always come into Helix on reimport. What would really be cool is if the Helix app gave us the option to append the IR list sequence number 001-128 to prefix the file name on export without changing the file title (i.e. 096_Marsh412_SM57_2in). This would keep the files in sequence in the computer OS file system so you could drag them all back in order after an update, but the IR names in Helix would not show the redundant sequence prefix as the file titles would be populated with the original pre-export Helix names. Regardless, you could still do this manually if you file your active Helix IR'S separately. Note the Helix app IR sequence, maybe use Excel to manage this. Export all IR's once. Add a 3 digit prefix to the file name (note the file title will still bear the name as it was in Helix). Then drag them back in after an update. Of course you could use Excel macros and a little scripting to read in the IR file names from a specified folder, manually sort them once in the order they were in Helix, concatenate the filename with a corresponding sequence prefix, then rename IR files with specified sequence prefixes.

Maybe the reverb is creating the "muffled" sound you are hearing. If you pull the reverb down so that the path splits, you are basically now passing 50% of the dry amp and 50% of the wet reverb signal. You might try adjusting the wet control of the reverb block to 50% or so when it's in the single path.