roscoe5

I've considered the Alto speakers, and they look like a great full range solution. I had just noticed that the L2t's had built in acoustic guitar body modelling, and was wondering if there was a way to get it to FOH if I were to use an L2t as a monitor or backline. I have been using IRs which work okay for now.

Inspired by my new personal gold standard IR's, the Studiocat Friedman 2x12, and the more intuitive selection and organization of 3sigma IR's, I have made yet another pass at my old faithful cab, Mesa Recto 212 with solid state (haven't made SS IR'S before) and tube power amps. These to me are smoother, more versatile and easier to mix together in Helix or Redwirez mixIR2 than my previous versions. Link to v4 Mesa Recto 212 IR's https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6qheuliyysyypj6/AACqUjJoZ-uxHEduv9_I-RCHa?dl=0 Legend C = condenser D = dynamic R = ribbon SS = Solid State Power Amp Tube = Tube Power Amp MesRec212_SS_C1.wav MesRec212_SS_C2.wav MesRec212_SS_C3.wav MesRec212_SS_C4.wav MesRec212_SS_C5.wav MesRec212_SS_C6.wav MesRec212_SS_D1.wav MesRec212_SS_D2.wav MesRec212_SS_D3.wav MesRec212_SS_D4.wav MesRec212_SS_D5.wav MesRec212_SS_D6.wav MesRec212_SS_D7.wav MesRec212_SS_D8.wav MesRec212_SS_D9.wav MesRec212_SS_R1.wav MesRec212_SS_R2.wav MesRec212_Tube_C1.wav MesRec212_Tube_C2.wav MesRec212_Tube_D1.wav MesRec212_Tube_D2.wav MesRec212_Tube_D3.wav MesRec212_Tube_D4.wav MesRec212_Tube_D5.wav MesRec212_Tube_R1.wav MesRec212_Tube_R2.wav 3-mic Mixes MesRec212_Mix_CDR1.wav MesRec212_Mix_CDR2.wav MesRec212_Mix_CDR3.wav MesRec212_SS_LoFi.wav Bonus IR!!! I made this one for my LoFi guitar patch that I use for a couple of intros and breaks. I basically replicated some Helix effects and eq I was using in the patch with DAW effects and exported to a single IR. Much less complicated in Helix now. The 3sigma Mesa Recto 212 IR's were a little too fizzy and nasally to me. Yes, a Recto 212 can sound like that mic'd, but it doesn't have to. The 3S IR's really didn't sound like that cab in a room or on stage to me. Amplitube 4 Recto 212 had a similar sound to 3 Sigma, so not sure if this cab just doesn't get the love or what. 3 Sigma Road King, Friedman 412, and many other of their cabs sound killer. The Studiocat Friedman 2x12 had much nicer amp-in-room sounds overall, especially when mixed together. But sadly the Friedman 2x12 is not my stage cab. No reason to divorce my long-time faithful cab wife for a similar younger model ;) Excellent references for me though, thanks Jim!!! I think a mix of 2 or 3 of these to my FOH XLR out gets me back to being true to my Mesa 212 cab I am using on stage. This is very beneficial for me for home patch creation/tweaking in headphones (night time) and through the physical rig (day time), as well as reducing potential conflicts between FOH and my stage rig in smaller venues and/or the people up closer to the stage. Anyway, these v4 IR's are working well for me and maybe the will work well for some of you. Link to root IR folder containing everything https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lstuzn05tdpin9v/AADjdknZwdrze5VqaO7whHroa?dl=0

Good points about different speakers with SS amps and sound first, appearance second. I liked the 3sigma Mesa Road King before Studiocat's Friedman 212 masterpiece. The RK cab has a mix of C90 and V30 speakers to give Mesa's real tube "modeller" more versatility. I have a C90 speaker I could swap with one V30 to make that Mesa 212 more versatile. And honestly, my acoustic sim patch (no cab IR) sounded just fine through the V30 cab for monitoring purposes. I knew it sounded as intended through the FOH speakers, so the darker acoustic sound through my stage cab was okay by me. I only use it a couple of times throughout the night.

Sorry, been a bum. Still no clIps. But I used them at a gig tonight in my Helix FOH path. Mesa 212 no IR'S with a solid state power amp on stage. Great 212 V30 sound, better than my Mesa. Luckily they are close enough to my Mesa that I don't have to go out and buy a Friedman 212 ;)

Awesome. Thank you so much for the info. I have though hard about the Godins and am currently considering the GraphTech Ghost piezo system in my PRS Singlecut Trem. I've heard some great YouTube videos of that alone.

I think I heard the same digital artifacts running the CPB through my Crate PA speakers with horns. I interpreted it as distortion since the CPB THD is 10%. Didn't hear any issues through my Mesa 212 tonight though.

Man, the Crate PowerBlock and Mesa 212 was just too easy tonight. Low stress setup, consistent all night, nice contrasts between amps. I enjoyed it. The band liked it, but I get eye rolls with my rig experements (like I probably do here ;)) Honestly they would only have said something if it sounded like poo. Got a few "you guys rock" comments, nothing guitar specific though. I dunno guys, maybe I should quit chasing the FRFR unicorn. I don't feel the drive to have a bunch of different cabs. Friedman 2x12 IR'S to FOH and Mesa 212 on stage was good times. Never felt like I wasn't playing killer tube amps. Thanks Line 6!!!

So are you using Acoustic Guitar IR's in Helix to send to 1/4" aoucoustic out to FOH, or are you just EQ'ing your piezo signal?

I only meant the flatness and range of the SS power amp. It's probably an improper use of the term. I'll edit so as not to cause confusion.

I thought I would start up this thread here on the Helix forum as I have seen a lot of rig discussion on FRFR or 4cm / tube amps, but nothing on using a solid state amp with a regular guitar cab. This seems to have been a popular option in the Fractal groups with amps like Matrix GT series, as well as various traditional power amps. There are many Kemper pics and demos with traditional cabs. New demos for BIAS Head (with SS power setion) are with a Marshall 412. One of the intended uses of my Crate Powerblock with modellers and traditional guitar cabs. I just hooked it up to my Mesa 212 with Helix amp models only (cabs off) and it sounds great! I can really hear the nuances of the Helix amps with the SS amp, even through the V30 cab. I would think Helix amp models to SS amp / guitar cab on stage, then split the signal to XLR/ FOH with a similar cab block or IR to their stage cab would be great for many people. Or just mic the cab traditionally. This seems like the perfect middle ground between FRFR and 4cm tube amp, and very simple to set up. You get a clear, uncolored signal of the amp model as it was designed into a real guitar cab. It's like having 50 heads on the same cab. Is anyone else doing this? Helix 1/4" out into the effects return of the Mesa Walkabout amp sounds great too. A little bigger amp, but not digital power.

Mission Engineering does actually sell some pedal upgrade kits. This $39 kit is actually for a switching expression pedal , but looks like it has the parts for an EP1-L6 (10k pot, jacks, etc.), and maybe also the switch version SP1-L6H for Helix Rack. http://missionengineering.com/?product=kit-a-2 It also looks like you can get a Mission / Line 6 logo pad and baseplate kit for $11. They say it's for their older style Mission pedals, so I don't know for sure if it will fit a Cry Baby. http://missionengineering.com/?product=upgrade-kits

The one thing I didn't do since fixing the speakers was plug the L6 Spider Valve MkII HD100 back into them. Luckily the L6 SV can handle a 4 ohm load. The L6 SV sounds great full range as well. IR's and cabs sound good, as well as my acoustic guitar patches. Little to no coloration, especially for a tube amp. I dig it too.

I found the original L6 Helix forum Acoustic Guitar IR post with links. Thanks to amsdenj and PerterHamm for most of them (I think) http://line6.com/support/topic/16855-acoustic-guitar-impulse-response/

I'm still on a quest for my final FRFR solution and fresh off of experimenting with acoustic guitar IR's. A couple of questions about L2t / L3t acoustic guitar modelling... 1) Has anyone tried to access the L2t / L3t Ch1 Variax acoustic guitar body modelling of the L2t / L3t with Helix? 2) How does the acoustic body modelling sound with a piezo-equiped electric guitar? It looks like the acoustic body modelling is on Ch1 of those speakers. I'm not sure if this is accessible over L6 Link. I would imagine you could run a second cable to Ch1 and set the routing for an acoustic patch. Then you would probably use the speaker's XLR out rather than Helix to FOH to capture the acoustic modelling in the signal.

Yes! Pedal hacks!

Yeah, that's even better...hands off the wheel.

Updating this thread with a better Piezofier IR, Helix Preset, and soundclip. Piezofier IR basically transforms a mag pickup signal into a piezo-type signal for use with some free acoustic guitar body IR's available. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w22td0pu9wq8906/AADGIIeVU5izHXrg9cRrOww7a?dl=0 Mag Acoustic Piezofier.wav Taylor 814 - DPA 4011.wav Preset http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2244635/ AC Sim Mag2Piezo.hlx Quick Sound Clip of my PRS Singlecut Trem with single coil tap engaged and neck and bridge pickups active. https://soundcloud.com/michael-potts-995394155/helix-acoustic-guitar-sim-mag-single-coils

Just sharing a little experience just now...you really shouldn't unplug ANY USB device while updating Firmware. I have a personal computer and work computer setup at home, both hooked up to the same monitor and switch video input. But I move the USB cable for keyboard and mouse back and forth...poor man's KVM. I unplugged my keyboard/mouse USB during Helix 2.01 update and it failed. Thank goodness a message popped up on Helix to reboot the device and try again. I had a momentary bricking scare. In hindsight, that was dumb of me to do. I rebooted Helix and successfully installed v2.01 (patiently) and we are good to go. Thanks for the idiot-proofing Line 6!!!

Thanks for checking this. Not a FH1500 deal breaker for me, but good to know for establishing expectations. I still would like Line 6 support to but together a video of Helix and Firehawk 1500 and make some Helix patch templates.

I totally sympathize with the OP. I had a similar reaction to the OP with Helix coming from a tube rig. Nothing sounded "right" or "good" to me and I quickly got the sick buyer's remorse feeling that all of us dread. I was judging Helix with Sennheiser HD280 headphones and a pair of M-Audio BX-5's and comparing to my Mesa head and 212. In hindsight and lessons learned, the advice and options I would give someone new to Helix and current gen modellers and coming from a traditional guitar rig is... Home use: 1) Record your old rig mic'd they way you like it if you can to give you a baseline, or listen to old recordings of your rig that you like, to get your ear used to its studio sound and understand what it took to get it there (amps, cabs/mics/positions, effects, drives, eq, compression, etc.). This is the sound Helix is going to deliver when adjusted to your liking with similar blocks and settings. Of course, Helix can deliver much more than this...but you may not be ready for that yet. 2) Find cabs and/or IR's that are close to your old rig (or make your own from your old rig) to lower the initial sound/feel shock, then start expanding. Use dual cabs/IR's even of the same cab with different mics to give you more of the physical cab's actual range and fullness. Lower the high cut on the cabs/IR's to 5-10kHz if needed. 3) Get good studio monitors or FRFR, headphones are okay but you don't get the same room feel. I didn't grin ear-to-ear until I got out of the headphones. Live use: 1) Use Helix amp models (no cabs and not just the preamps) into your existing amp's effect return if you don't have FRFR, and use the tube amp Presence knob to tame it. 4CM with your amp's preamp in still play gives you more options, but may not be necessary in your initial exploration of Helix. 2) Get a true guitar FRFR rig or PA speakers with 10" or 12" speakers and a 1" horn (15" are too boomy), it doesn't even have to be super expensive to get you inspired and productive. Even Helix through a bass rig with 10" or 12" speakers and a horn is usable with the right Global EQ and High/Low cut adjustments. 3) Use the Global EQ to flatten out and high/low cut your rig if needed. Unfortunately, Helix was not plug and play for me. It was one of those "you don't know what you don't know" experiences about sound and studio engineering for me. Guys with recording and DAW experience seem to do better with it to me in general. I was mostly a live player and others had always setup the live and recording hookup and settings. Luckily, I think I've come out of it better than I went into it and feel it was worth it. I have certainly learned a lot.

FYI to the forum, I sent an email to Mission Engineering to see if they would just sell us pre-wired/soldered pot/jack drop in expression pedal retrofit kits for our old Cry Baby pedals for about $40. I figure it's about $15-20 in parts and 1/2 hour labor with packing and shipping. Less if you can get bulk parts and an assembly line. They may even be able to get a similar profit margin with just the kit rather than the whole pedal. We'll see what they say. Maybe they could include a plastic plug for the hole when removing the on off switch and include a little grease pack for the gears. Even $50 is better than $130, and you are reusing/recycling. Heck, I would probably do it if you guys were interested. I know not everyone wants to deal with a soldering iron. But really, Mission is a great US company with good expression pedal and FRFR offerings for us already. I would like to support them if they are willing. Or Line 6 could do it and put them in their store ;)

I was running this exact setup with a Mesa head and Recto 212 (slowly migrating to FRFR now). Have you tried a Helix full amp block? Also try adjusting the presence knob on you tube amp as this like affects the power section. I had a similar reaction to just the Helix preamp blocks into the effects return of my tube rig. I also noticed that the JCA22H has EL84 tubes, which are inherently brighter and chimey. I definitely noticed more harshness running Helix into my Mesa 20/20 EL84 amp and Recto 212 than my 6L6 amps. Running full Helix amp models should tone that down as well as setting the Presence on your amp lower.

Helix 31 Band Global EQ Option for use with an RTA app set to a similar 31 band analysis to more directly flatten an FRFR or studio monitor rig. http://line6.ideasca...508?submitted=1

Easing my way into FRFR from tube amps with this budget $200 stereo Crate Powerblock and PE-12H PA speaker solution. Optionally using a Line 6 Spider Valve MkII HD100 full range with great results as well.

One thing I noticed about the Crate Powerblock is the tiniest bit of high frequency distortion that comes through the horns on the PE-12H speakers. It is only noticeable on a super clean patch in a quiet room right in front of the speakers and not with the full band. I dont get this when running through the SS power section of my Mesa Walkabout amp, so it's not the speakers. I looked back at the manual for the CPB and it specifies THD of 10%. This would be likely unnoticeable with guitar cabs. The pic in the manual show it with 4 Crate 112 guitar cabs. I noticed that the CPB THD was also noticed and discussed in the old Line 6 POD forums as well. So in conclusion, the Crate Powerblock will certainly do a fine job live with a band and I still plan on using it this weekend, and more for a while. But it's not going to be the cleanest studio amp. The CPB and pair of PE-12H speakers performance far exceeds the $200 price tag.