gunpointmetal

Uhm because those are amps through cabs and this is a modeler into a PA? Apples to oranges. Have you tried the pre models into the effects return of a real amp? Or next time you get to play through a tube amp mic'ed into the PA, go out front where you can't hear the amp and see if it sounds the same through the mic and the house system? A DI POD signal isn't mimicing an amp in a room, its mimicing an entire signal patch from the input of the first effect in the chain to the mic and the room the cab is in, so a DI signal with cab sims is never going to sound like an amp/cab "in the room". That is the sound I prefer, so I go with pre models into a flat amp into a guitar cab 99% of the time and deal with the issues of that (bring my own mic for my IEM rig, having it not sound right in every room, etc). And when I do go DI, I have to deal with issues there, too i.e. no "room" feel, slight disconnection in the speaker response, etc....

Any idea for improvement is welcome. No-one's knocking the idea of improvement, what we're saying, for the most part, is this isn't an issue for everyone. When I got my HD500 I plugged it into my live rig (powerblock/4x12), cranked it up, and dialed in a sound that everyone in the room was happy with in a matter of minutes with just a couple of gates and the Mesa Preamp model. Of course I've tweaked it over time as I notice things or want a little more or less of something, but I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with how the unit sounds out of the box (other than the factory presets, which are never any good on any modeler). I did the same thing with DI patches.....I took my live amp patches, switched the amps to full models, found a cab/mic that sounded good, moved a few EQ knobs, and they sounded really good through our practice PA, even at earsplitting levels. As long as you're creating your tones with the amplification and volume level you intend to use them at, it shouldn't be a problem.

It doesn't really sound like anything was wrong, dude just didn't want to have to figure out how to make it sound good. If you actually care about your sound you WANT to get into the minutia of it to make sure its "you". At least I think so.

Everyones ears are different. It seems you are happy with your POD other than the fact that you had to learn to use it properly before you could be happy with it.

I really wouldn't mind having a programmable stereo EQ pedal with reference mic input and presets so I could "room EQ" my sound at venues I play frequently.

I remember those little gray Zoom boxes from the '90s, too. At the time, I thought those things sounded great in just about every situation, pulled my 505 out of the closet a few weeks ago and now I realise it sounds like total (deflated) balls. Lots of fizz and scoopiness, too much distortion, wierd digital gating..... things are sooo much better now. Kronda, the idea isn't a bad one, but a "fix-all" for this type of thing is never actually a fix-all, because all needs and ears are different. I could see them maybe implementing "ideal" global EQ presets, but I think assigning it to an output mode might cause more problems for people. My personal experience is that an empty chain with an amp/cab/mic and dials at noon sounds about as I would expect to if I plugged into someone else's amp at a gig and didn't adjust anything. EQ curves that make electric guitar "sound good" usually don't translate well into a mix. This isn't meant to be condescending or anything, but maybe you would find your tone easier with an older-generation modeler with more "idealised" amp models like a Floor POD+, X3/T, or something from the Zoom G-series. They are all viable options that gigging musicians use every day and, in my experience, are little more "ready-to-go" right out of the box.

I've said it a hundred times.....its not the gear, its the user. I've been playing out live for over half of my life now, on everything from expensive tube heads, to lollipop solid state combos, and I've used modeling through a guitar cab or FRFR exclusively for the last 7 years or so. If patches through a PA sound flat and lifeless, its not because thats how the POD sounds, could be the implement used to build them in the first place, could be a sound guy that doesn't know his inputs very well (line/mic/balanced/unbalanced).... The only that affects the sound I'm used to hearing from rig is A) the room, and B) whatever the sound guy does after the fact. There is no "magic bullet" to make mediocre patches sound "useable" or make a tone that sounds awesome in your headphones at bedroom volume carry the same through a PA in a 200-person venue. I find it hard to believe its the device's issue when thousands of people use them easily enough with above-satisfactory results on a daily basis......

I call shenanigans

or what we'll end up with is "hyped" sound (like Bose home audio equipment, and "sonic maximizers") that mask the unpleasant parts of a tone by completely removing them, boosting around them, or applying a drastic EQ curve) and will get lost in a mix, but probably sound awesome on its own.

but does it sound the same?

Those keyboards and similar instruments sound "fine" through any "full-range" rig, but I guarantee that they don't sound exactly the same from room to room, PA to PA. Like I said, it could be done with a reference mic and an adaptive EQ....you tell the POD what it should sound like in your "ideal", set that as a preference, then play in a different room where the mic would tell the EQ to make it sound like your preference, but that still requires physical work, a little bit of gear knowledge, and more hardware. Every room sounds different, every PA sounds different, and guitarists are NOTORIOUSLY picky about their sound. I don't think I've ever heard a keyboard player say "Ah, this pad sound a gajillion times different through this amp" because they're usually less concerned with every minute detail in a live setting. I'm not saying its a bad idea, simply a nearly-impossible-to-implement one based on the endless variable in performing music in a live context.

If you just want to buy a modeler, plug it in, and have it sound amazing everywhere you go, thats never gonna happen. I don't think all of us feel like we're using sub-optimal patches. I happen to get lots of tonal compliments, even from guys who play through $2000 tube heads into $1200 cabs, and guys who don't even really like the kind of music I do. Maybe something like the Amplifi, or FireHawk are more up your alley?

You're assuming that a PA system is actually "Flat-Response", which they almost never are. If you had a perfectly acoustically treated room and "true" FRFR speakers and you set your patches at gig volume, then go down to your local club with a full-scale PA and plug in, its probably gonna sound like lollipop, even if the place has massive, high-end speakers and a $20,000 board because all that gear will have EQ'd all that stuff to be "flat for the room" and your pristine patches will not translate. It would be awesome if you could just take your patches from one situation to another and have them sound completely awesome on every output mode, via any amplification source, but thats not very realistic. At the very least, the POD would require a reference mic and a smart, adaptive EQ for it to even work properly. I would venture to guess that if you had a completely empty signal chain and you throw a random amp, cab/mic, and leave the controls at "50" you could get a "useable" tone, just like you would out of a tube amp (honestly though, "useable" and something I would actually use are usually very different things. Everything that appears in the HD's effects chain is something that someone would need to know how to use (except EQs w/percentages, nobody needs to know that besides POD HD users) to get a sound if that piece of gear is actually in your chain. If you like the sound of an amp with nothing but the controls at noon and nothing else, the POD will do that. Whenever I've had friends or acquaintances ask me for help with a POD, or any modeling, the first thing I usually find is too much in the chain, too many EQs, too much gain, wrong amp model for the sound they're after, poor signal chaining, and usually within 5 minutes I can get them "close" to what they're after. If it sounds crap after you've edited your patches, thats on you. If it sounds crap with factory patches, its because, well, they're factory patches and they usually sound like crap. If you build your tones for their intended purpose, know your output modes, and understand signal chaining, there is no reason for the POD to sound like lollipop, ever.

I'd like to see Edit compatible with Windows 8.1RT devices....a lot of them have a full-size USB port, the only real issue being the drivers used on the ARM processors. But, now a lot of the Windows tablets are running full 8.1.....I want RT because I have an RT device....... Actually, all I want is this new firmware, the model pack bundle, and I will be pretty happy with my $500 ($600 w/the model packs) device that gets me compliments on tone every show we play. Oh yeah, and a time machine to go back to the pre-HD programming stage and cack-slap whoever put the EQs in percents. Big ol' mushroom print on the forehead for that guy.

Theoretically.....You'd probably have to work with all of the bands to get a useable loud FRFR patch to translate to headphones, but essentially, yes, you get it sounded awesome in one PA, the global EQ should be able to help you get that sound from another system,

I'm not even interested in using it live, just recording, but this was kinda my final analysis.... It sounded better....at first..... then I realised it just sounded "different", but not better, and no worth spending more money, on more amp models when I have the HD500X that also functions as a soundcard when I'm tracking guitar and doesn't require too much of my computer's resources.

I'm no L6 employee, but as far the EQ goes, I would think the idea is to implement it as a "room corrective" EQ where you have patches that sound great in your cab, but not necessarily in every space, so if you get in a room that's boomy, you can cut some lows from the overall output, or if you're back-lining into an unfamiliar cab that might be harsher than what you're used to, you can cut some highs/mids. I think Digital Igloo said NO EFFECTS are being added/made available (at least not right now), and that that part of the press release was a typo.

but will it be in real-world parameters, or Line 6's fairy-tale world %s?

try turning down your bass and turning up your mids

cool. HD500 was my first Line 6 board, so I was not familiar with the set-up.

soooooo.... do I have to spend $200 to put the model packs on both my 500 and 500X? That would suck donkey balls.

Well, I'll be buying the metal pack and using it. So I'm glad they did it. Tough lollipop if its not for you.

also, wondering if I'm going to have to pay for two sets of model packs for my 500X which is my main board for live work and my older 500, which is a backup. I need them to have the same patches on both....don't really want to spend $200 on model packs, though.

Wouldn't have to be getting some of them to have 50 HD models? Unless that is counting pre/full models separately from each other.