SiWatts69

Hey bassman24... welcome to the fold! Ordinary mic cables can be used for L6Link for testing purposes and many people use them all the time, just observe that longer cable runs are more likely to cause problems. If you got some shorter mic cables, use them. Go on, give it a whirl, you know you want to! Oh and the smell is something that has been reported extensively in the past but I thought they'd got over that pungent snag. I didn't bring mine into the house for a long period so not sure whether mine emitted that odour!

Just one last picture then for the full "balance"

Just as a sidenote scotterp... taking up probably less room than your chauvet minis but 2-3 times the light output, have you looked at the American DJ Dotz 1.4's? 4x 9watt cob leds in a unit approx. 13. 5†x 5.75†x 5.75â€/ 340 x 140 x 140mm. and with a doughty 35mm adapter would drop straight on to your existing short top mounted poles. These new COB LED fixtures give a less aggressive colour wash and much smoother colour transitions. Gotta say, I'm eyeing up a pair for my arsenal!

Awesome... Pleased it went well for you.

Just had a thought tochiro... are you connecting to the M20d using 1/4" TRS jacks for both channels and which inputs? If you're plugging in to 13-16, there is no FBS available regardless of preset. As far as I know, if you plug in to 1-12 using a 1/4" TRS you'll also only get "line" level presets where, again there is possibly no FBS in the FX chain for the preset type - but without my M20 to hand I can't double check. Swap out and insert using XLR cables (even if the other ends are TRS jack) and it should show you the full list of presets

Hee hee... Forum layouts catch many of us out! Scenograf... it's "jaminjimlp" who deserves your thanks. The "iknowathingortwo" is the label the forum software has applid to jim based on the number of posts he's made. In much the same way, you've been labelled "Just Startin'" Easy mistake to make and I often have to look twice. No offense intended :-) I played about with the playlist options early doors and gave up very quickly. The media player section of the M20 is one of those areas that doesn't really live up to many users expectations, but as it isn't really a core feature and is just a possibly useful add-on, I can sort of understand why it hasn't been given masses of attention to detail. As much as I hate apple and their products, I have to say that the simplest way of managing a playlist for between sets (assuming that is what you are using it for) is remotely on an iPad. Hook your iPad up via Apple Airport Express and USB to Ethernet adapter combo, insert a 3/8" stereo to 3/8" stereo jack in to the back of the airport express and plug in to the 3/8" input on the M20 and then select "Airplay" on your ipad. Now, you can have whatever playlist you want on your ipad, sorted as you want it and off you go. No need to worry about adding tracks one by one to get them in your chosen order. I guess you could also use the ipad to send backing tracks too.

I think you'll find a hearty "ditto" from a great number of people regarding not being a fan of apple products... I count myself in that camp too, but as with most things in life, the simplest path is the best to choose if you want a straightforward and predictable outcome, even if that simpler path costs a few quid more in the end and you have to compromise on a prior boycott of a certain conglomerates products! It's a real shame that there isn't an android option but I do understand the limitations that mean that, for now at least, the iPad is the only viable remote control method. I gave up on the dongle idea pretty quickly as it seemed almost impossible to locate any of the ones on the recommended list in the UK. I tried to sweeten the situation by choosing a cheaper usb to Ethernet adapter, unsuccessfully and then just went ahead reluctantly and picked up the apple adapter and router. It works flawlessly every time. Plus, I have an entire Northern Soul playlist on my ipad which we stream to the M20 whilst we're not playing, so there is that one massive advantage that kind of compensates for the two additional cables and one extra box. I do however agree that the video showing a dongle being plugged in and off you go is very appealing!

Sadly, I don't have my M20d to hand to tell you where the stereo mic preset is else I would do (our guitarist has it in his possession at present to play with it before our next outing) I seem to recall having to look pretty hard to find it but there is one there. The stage icon for it is an X-Y mic and it shows the stereo input symbol. Pretty certain the one I've used has FBS on the channel but again, without the M20 to hand I can't confirm for you. Sorry.

I have a pair of X-Y mics that go in via a stereo preset which has FBS. Initial preset is pretty flat so you could use that and then change the icon and adapt the preset for your own usage. When you plug in the first of your two connectors and it offers you the presets list, choose the stereo mic option and then plug in the second channel to the adjacent input.

Thanks scotterp. If truth be told, the chances are I'll not run all of it out for most of our gigs, likely just the corebar fixtures mounted on the second L3s pole with one or both of the gobo projectors to push the logo out. But this most recent gig was useful to check that all my inventory played well together and it did what I wanted, which was to minimise on-stage clutter. The simpler FX lights are great on their own, but too many all running together and the light show turns a bit weird. Just need to get some DMX switchpaks to be able to turn them off selectively! Setup was quite time conduming but I was genuinely surprised how quick we packed down... 45 minutes with everything loaded into the correct storage bags and all of it (pa and lights with the exception of the 2 L2m's and the M20d) loaded into my car. Started pack down at 10 past midnight and I was on my way before 1am. As the rest of the band learn where stuff belongs, we'll get considerably quicker. bassman24... I was intrigued by your pico projector idea!

The light slung from the right of the L3m is an ADJ Gobo Projector LED. About £99 (UK money) It comes with a small number of gobos included... this being one; I've 2 of them and had a "custom" gobo made up through GoboPlus for the band logo; (camera didn't do this one any favours as it decided to set the flash off!)

As promised... the new top of L3m mod was rolled out this weekend for a wedding. Room was an ok'ish sort of size, but with a really low ceiling and cross girders which descended down trapping sound and light, but managed to run everything as I intended. It'll work better with more ceiling height so the main stage floods don't interfere with the cross bar mounted to the L3m's

It is almost impossible to not respond... Perhaps if everybody read entire posts rather than apparently honing in on individual sentences taken out of context then we'd all be able to get along better. I have seen nobody deny that the problem you are experiencing exists in your speakers. I have seen nobody suggest anything other than support for those that are experiencing the same or similar issue. I have seen nobody wish you (and others affected by the same or similar) anything other than a speedy resolution from Line6. Personally, I express and hold the opinion that your methodology is not the best way forward and may be counter-productive and that you are making assertions about *your* problem being identical to every other report of a rattle, buzz or vibration that anybody over the past 12 months or so might have experienced. That's my opinion, I'm entitled to it and I'm entitled to express it. I get that you've got a problem. I get that it is causing you severe angst. I don't get why you feel the need to turn on anybody who expresses any opinion that doesn't perfectly align with yours. Accusing any of us of being "rabid fanboys" is, to paraphrase your own comment, laughable. Likewise to suggest that we're all just out to brown-nose for freebies or get into the Line6 reps' favours. Perhaps that's how your mind works. I, however, simply enjoy spreading the word about how good I believe the system to be, how good it has been in usage, warts and all, and assisting fellow users with my experiences and practises in using it in combination with a whole host of gear from other suppliers. So, just to re-iterate in-case these points have been lost in the post... I don't deny you have a problem. I give you my full support in gaining a speedy resolution to that problem from Line6 I give you my full sympathy for having been subjected to what is clearly having a deep impact on you. I am relieved that, at this moment in time, I am unaffected by the same or similar problem to you and I cross my fingers that I remain so. That's all. I don't need to enter into a willy waving competition (my dad's bigger than your dad so I win anyway ;-) )

To my knowledge, no. Each monitor channel has a separate 31 band eq. To be honest, I've not yet done anything with the (three) monitor sends we use aside from setting levels. I drive L2m's from 2 sends and then I personally run a set of IEM's and haven't felt the need to tweak any of the tone settings for monitors.

I had absolutely no intentions of getting involved with this thread. I am unaffected so it seemed unfair and unneccessary to get involved but... A production defect would show in EVERY speaker, not just a few. The sonic frequencies present within yours and others' setups obviously ARE having an impact on you (I have no reason nor desire to rebut your claim) but to state it as a production defect is, in my humble opinion, a little unfair. I'd quite sensibly agree that ALL manufacturers speakers will, at some point in the frequency spectrum under certain sonic conditions exhibit similar symptoms. It would be impossible to test or QC for infinite possibilities. wWhat I do agree with is that once such an issue has been discovered that it would be sensible of a manufacturer to take steps to a) own the problem and B) rectify it. I didn't read it that way at all. Yes, there will be customers who have experienced the buzz/rattle without *any* attempt to create it but there will also be others who have "found" it simply because they've gone looking for it based upon the conditions people with the problem have described. This is in essense what I believe was said. From an outsiders, unaffected point of view, I don't see anyone from Line6 (or indeed elsewhere) trying to blur the seriousness of your problem. They are counter-productive in your opinion but, by the same token, your ever increasing rants are also appearing counter-productive in my opinion since you are gradually alienating a number of your otherwise supportive fellow users. Again, to claim this is, in my opinion, a little unfair. It implies that you've been able to test every single user's speaker where they've reported a rattle, buzz, vibration etc over the past year and been able to isolate all of them to a single cause. Instead, all I can see is you scouring the forum looking for any mention of "vibration", "buzz" or "rattle" and lumping every one of these reports in to your one size fits all "defect"... not to mention delivering the same rant into those threads. Velok, as others have said already, the forum is not the *best* place to get your issue resolved. Use the already established support system and, more importantly, give Line6 chance to respond and take ownership of the problem you are experiencing. Otherwise you increasing look like a troll. Sorry tudscamp, I don't see haw listening to your rattle will inform Line6 of what tomtheguitarguy's rattle sounds like. You are assuming that they are identical. I would *hope* that they are identical, since this would imply a single issue that will be modestly easy to rectify BUT I wouldn't want to *assume* that they are. Truly, I sympathise with *anyone* who has a problem. I am also honestly happy that I am *currently* unaffected. I'd also *like* to think that Line6 are fully investigating and taking steps to resolve any such issues as quickly as is feasible. BUT I'm not convinced that ranting on a user forum, taking pot shots at people who are trying to offer constructive assistance is at all productive. Getting hot under the collar is not good for your blood pressure.

If anyone is looking for the mounts used by Digital-sound, scotterp and litesnsirens, do a google search for "external top hat". We're gigging a wedding on Monday and it will be with all my lighting revisions in place BUT in a venue with a relatively low ceiling. I'll try to get some pictures of the full lighting setup in relation to what I've described above.

Nice quick response Arne, but if we mute the channel... the "real" band member is also muted. If we're playing back the recordings, we can play over the top, but in the scenario I'm talking about we just want say the bass player's recording to play (as he isn't able to attend) but for everyone else to play through their normal channel along with the recording of the bass player.

Are you using specific L6Link, AES/EBU cables or have you just used standard mic xlr to xlr cables? We haven't had any problems but, as I've said in other threads, I'm anal about cabling, ensuring I always use the correct type of cable for the job in hand. I tend to ignore the back panel LED display, referring only to what the M20d has assigned and reassigning if necessary. I also don't follow the L6 advised cable path (my selected cable path being shorter): L3m > L3s > L2m (monitor 1) > L2m (monitor 2) > L3s > L3m Aside from sometimes needing to switch the monitors round, the M20d has always reported and assigned my rig correctly.

I guess the one feature I'd most like to see is; The ability to only play back selected inputs from a recording. We regularly rehearse and yet there are occasions where one, or more band members cannot attend. In these instances, our guitarist takes a gig recording and knocks out all the member who will be there, just leaving behind those who won't be there... but this takes time and we have to do it to a separate wav / mp3 file and play it back off hiss computer/mac. How easy it would be if, on the recording payback screen, we could de-select channels from the recording, thus just playing back the missing member(s), the rest of us playing as normal.

Those mounts are pretty elegant and the simplest method to do what we've done. The main reasons I didn't opt for that as a solution are: The mount stands proud of the top of the speaker so I figured it might damage the Line6 bags if my compatriates didn't load the speker into the bag the right way up. and by utilising a threaded pole mount, I can use existing gear and it all be interchangeable. Some comments I forgot to make in my first post... Line6 DO NOT RECOMMEND A POLE GREATER THAN 24" (the Line6 long pole). My K&M poles are all longer than the recommended Line6 poles (though I do now have a set of them too!) Doing anything like what I've done is "at your own risk" Equally, when loading lighting bars/ mounts etc in this way, please ensure they are well balanced to avoid any stress off-axis on the threaded mounts on your L3s's. If you off axis load your bars too much, you stand a significant risk of the mount pulling free of the L3s and the whole lot toppling over onto some poor unsuspecting audience or band member. Certainly DON'T do it if you are not on a level solid floor. Additionally, the longer the poles you mount, the more risk from someone bumping in to them and again the mounts coming free.

One or two of us have posted our solutions for stage space saving mounting options. These postings have often been as part of an existing topic that has no relationship to mounting solutions. So, I'm creating this topic as a central point of reference in the vain hop that it might give others ideas about how to tackle the nightmare that is rigging up a small (or large!) stage where a multitude of lighting and speaker stands are inappropriate. Background: I have; 2x L3s 2x L3m 2x L2m (used for monitors) I then have lighting: 4x Chauvet COREbar 4's 8x ADJ Mega TriPar mounted (4 onto each) on K&M cross bars 8x other standalone effects lights The problem we most of us face is being able to adequately mount all our speakers (at optimum heights) and rig up a stage lighting rig without using up so much stage space that there's nowhere left for the band to stand! I'll say that my "setup" is evolving but here's where I stand today... L3s are laid flat revealing the twin 20mm screw thread pole mounts. Into the outer pole mount, I insert a K&M 21367 Distance Rod »Ring Lock« http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Distance-and-extension-rods/21367-Distance-Rod-Ring-Lock-black which is then used to mount an L3m Into the inner pole mount, I insert a K&M 21347 DISTANCE ROD http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Distance-and-extension-rods/21347-DISTANCE-ROD-black which is then topped with a K&M 213/3 Extension Rod to get me to nearly 2.9m from floor level. This is used to mount lights In the above picture, I've mounted the K&M t-bar 21393 CROSSBAR http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Lighting-stands-accessories/21393-CROSSBAR-black direct to the top. A suggestion from litesnsirens and taken up by Digital-sound got me thinking and I've spent this morning building a mod for the top of my L3m's that enables the carrying of a small t-bar which I'll use for small moonflowers, lasers and gobos. I started by getting four squares of plywood and glued two together to get me to 24mm thickness. Extract the two cross head bolts from the top of the L3m (also on L2 cabinets). These are the suspension eye points. Make two countersunk 10mm holes in your squares (note I made my square a little big and had to take a couple of corners off for them to drop in) and a 37mm hole in the centre. Mount the square blocks to the top of the L3m by reinserting the two bolts you took out. Now mount a 20mm speaker pole connector plate onto your wooden blocks. I've used a K&M 24116 CONNECTOR PLATE http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Distance-and-extension-rods/24116-CONNECTOR-PLATE-black The 37mm hole in the blocks is for the back of the connector plate to drop in to. You now have a 20mm speaker pole mount tucked away neatly into the recessed panel at the top of your L3m (or L2m). I bought a pair of the short and long Line6 poles and these thread straight in and voila, I can now mount a short (800mm) t-bar direct to the top of my L3m's! As the poles are 35mm, you can use any 35mm compatible t-bar or as I have, a 35mm union with bolt to take the box section bars. For added flexibility (because my Chauvet COREbars only have a 28mm mount), I also have a pair of K&M 24521 REDUCER FLANGE mounts http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Lighting-stands-accessories/24521-REDUCER-FLANGE-black-M10-x-12-mm which accept a 28mm TV-pin K&M 24519 TV PIN http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Lighting-stands-accessories/24519-TV-PIN-zinc-plated such that I have full flexibility to mount any of the lights wherever best suits the venue, the final piece of the puzzle being a set of American Audio light stands that have a 28mm top pole.

Our guitarist, if anything, is the opposite and often has to be told to turn up a tad on stage. He uses an Egnater Tweaker and has the extension cab. The main cab is fired sideways off stage with an SM57 in front of it, fed to the M20d and he then has the tweaker extension cab on an angled stand firing back at him like a monitor from front of stage. As a result, his backline doesn't have much impact at all on the FOH levels as it isn't contributing to the sound projected from stage. Our bass player on the other hand...

Feedback is inevitably the root of all evil for us hobbyist sound techs with our M20's but ultimately, it is generated when our on-stage volume is typically higher than needs be. I hate to say it but guitarists and bassists are the worst... They set the stage levels with their backline then the singers grumble because they can't hear themselves, so the monitors get pushed up and up... hey presto whistles galore. Get your backline players to reduce their on-stage volumes AND direct their cabs away from FOH so it is there purely for them. Now try doing an initial soundcheck with just vocal monitoring and backline (leave the FOH off at this stage), getting the monitors to a point where your singer(s) are happy. If you then "push" the monitors up an extra 5-10db with singers in place behind their mics, you'll likely induce the worst of the feedback frequencies for the M20 to notch out and can then drop the levels back down. Then record something. The last time we ran the rig out, we did just that. Singers happy and on-stage levels sensible. We then did a basic mix in headphoneswith the recording before heading out front with everyone to tweak the mix and set FOH levels. Aside from a few inevitable whistles early doors ( as the room acoustics had changed with people) the M20 notched out the extra frequencies pretty quick. We were complimented on two fronts... how good we sounded AND on how sensible our overall volume was. Loud enough to be enjoyable but not so loud that people had to shout to each other to be heard. My only gripe at present is a bass player who tweaks his bass guitar volume control during the set... we've a full gigs worth of recordings where his levels start out great but by the end of the first set his input has got too hot and is distorting.

Thanks for that Ron... :-)

Yes. You can simultaneously connect a full line or partial line of Line6 L6Link speakers AND analogue speakers to either or both of the main L&R outs and Monitor A-D sends. Analogue L&R will receive exactly the same as is sent to L6Link L & R assigned speakers Analogue monitor A, B, C and D will receive exactly the same as is sent to L6Link monitors A, B, C & D. Connect Analogue L&R to your Tonematch and set whatever crossover point you want to only drive the bose bass units. Connect your stagesource speakers via L6Link and let the M20d manage them for you.