HonestOpinion

Hmm, I wonder what the common factor is here. I also was connected to the Editor and could not get this bug to happen. Hopefully others will weigh in on this one. Is this happening on multiple presets and User presets as well as Factory presets?

LOL, and on that note, whatever someone's sentiments may be towards them, I definitely recommend unplugging it before peeing on a tube amp. ;)

No one who isn't playing in a hardcore punk or noise band is equating "tube warmth" to "noise/buzzing, inconsistencies in volume, inconsistencies in tone, and general lack of clarity in comparison to recorded studio material". Those are definitely all the issues that have been recognized here already as what people don't miss or prefer about tube amps. Tube amps and analog effects do also have their virtues and you are right about people forgetting the negative elements of the "good old days" but they don't have to reminisce about those days as analog amps and effects are still quite popular, used by discerning musicians everywhere, and can sound great. I do prefer gigging with the Helix these days and not lugging around hundreds of pounds of potential problems as you so correctly point out. Not quite sure I am quite ready to relegate tube amps and analog effects to the same category as the Edsel and the 1950's era avocado green refrigerator down at the city dump although I can understand why some people look at them that way and respect the fact that you feel their time has passed, maybe it has. I hate using car analogies on the forum but just because you buy a new hybrid with Bluetooth, built in WIFI, and advanced safety features doesn't mean you can't also appreciate some aspects of an old Porsche or Corvette; even if you have no intention of running out and buying one because the mileage sucks and they spend half their time in the shop. They also have a lot of power and are way fun to drive. I just want to retain the power and joy of driving elements without the negative aspects in my new equipment. There have been some amazing tube amps and analog effects made along the way as well as newer fairly innovative tube amp and analog effect designs that are even being produced now. I don't think recognizing their attributes and wanting some of them to transfer to the newer technology translates as false memories of older technology or to not appreciating or not understanding new digital technology. It certainly doesn't in my case, I embrace new technology and spend a lot of time thinking about where it will go and how it can be improved. Appreciation and recognition of technological advances is one of the reasons I think many of us bought a Helix in the first place. From what I can see the Helix was designed to emulate the best of the equipment that came before it and build on that tradition and create something even better or at the very least different. I don't feel like I have to spit on great older equipment (which is an electrocution hazard anyway, a lot of that stuff is not properly grounded) to love the new stuff. ;) Note: I find it interesting that the example you provide as your revelation to the possibilities of emerging technology was a high quality vinyl record of a digital recording of Ry Cooder (great player!). I could not have come up with a more perfect example of hybrid technologies combining the old and the new had I tried.

Weird! I can't replicate this behavior. I dialed up the 'Say It Ain't So' (Factory 2, 26A) preset and it behaves perfectly normally. However there seem to be two users here reporting the same thing. Seems like more than coincidence. I wonder what is different in your setups? By any chance did you guys restore bundles? If you did, you are looking at a Factory preset restored from the previous version rather than a preset from the latest firmware. That would be a bit alarming though as it might imply this could impact other restored presets. If it were me I would be backing up and doing a global reset and restore of setlists, not bundles. Bundle restores overwrite the Factory presets and the Templates. If that didn't work it would be on to re-flashing my firmware. Have you guys made any changes to these presets or have anything new set in the global settings?

Phenomenal idea!! I think you are probably right. Sort of a convolution IR approach to cab modeling. Let's start a company. First we need to get Line6 to support convolution IRs though. :)

I agree and neglected to mention this. The reduced tap-dancing is a huge benefit to modelers/MFX; not to speak of the number of I/O options, the external amp switching, and the MIDI functionality that allows many other devices and a DAW to be controlled simultaneously with a single footswitch.

The capacitors tend to go after many years as well, pots gets scratchy, etc.. Amps definitely require more maintenance to stay dependable. Love the way an an old worn in speaker can sound however. Not worrying about any of that with the Helix these days though.

Audience members please place your electrodes on so the band can telepathically broadcast the show directly to your frontal lobes... :D

Was just about to add something like this post myself, you read my mind. Would love to see some guitar-synth instruments, polyphonic would be awesome. But even if it has to be monophonic the ability to quickly dial up some basic orchestral/band instruments like flute, sax, piano, organ, harmonica, strings, didgeridoo ;) , etc.. would be towards the top of my list. Oh... and the Slow Gear (some kind of auto-volume). :) Used to have one, can't believe I ever sold it.

Thanks! :)

I haven't submitted this as an idea to Ideascale yet but I would just like to say that I would happily give up one of my preset lists (128 presets) to get more room for IRs (I know, preset lists probably use three times as much memory ). Shuffling them in and out has just become an enormous pain. Adding the capability to the Editor to audition/preview them without having to load them into the slots would be a huge move in the right direction but when it comes down to it the Helix simply has way too few slots available for IRs once you really get into using them.

I think what support was saying is they wanted him to roll back to the 2.01 firmware and re-import his old stored backups from 2.01 and see if they were working properly there. He could then export again or use his old 2.01 backups, upgrade the firmware back to the 2.10 version, and restore his 2.01 backups. I don't believe they were trying to get him to load 2.10 backups into 2.01 firmware.

Great run down on the character of various speakers although I am personally still more of a fan of using an FRFR or PA speaker with a modeler. I do think however people should use whatever sounds and feels best to them, whether that is FRFR or guitar amp/cab. I am not surprised to hear that the Mesa Black Shadow C90 works well as it has high power handling capacity, plenty of headroom, and in my opinion has more of a full range sound than some of the other offerings from Celestion.

I think there is some irony in this discussion. There have certainly been enough people who have turned their noses up at modeling over the years in favor of tube/analog technology. Now the discussion seems to be tilting in the other direction with people taking a poke at analog technology. Like others here I love both a great old tube amp with vintage effects and a high-end modeler. I think it takes a bit more effort and know-how to get a great sound out of a modeler than a great tube amp. A great tube amp is more plug and play although they take a bit of knowledge to optimize as well. Words like 'feel' or 'warmth' may be subjective but sound and the feeling of playing a guitar are difficult things to describe, quantify, and qualify. I actually think many people who have been around long enough to use analog equipment and then be part of the digital revolution do have a general consensus as to what these adjectives mean in the context of sound. I think we generally know what others mean when they describe a guitar sound with words like muddy, sparkling, dark, bright, sterile, searing, brittle, ice-pick, etc.. Everyone may get a slightly different impression when hearing those cliches but they can give us a ballpark concept of what the sound is like. I remember the first CD players to come on the market and their low sampling rate meant that they did not yet do a very good job of emulating the nuance in a sound wave produced by a good stereo and a quality record player. People described the old records as sounding 'warmer' and everyone with decent ears knew what they meant even if there was a technical reason underlying the difference in the sound that only the more nerdy understood. Tube amps have a certain 'feel' and 'warmth' that has been difficult to attain until recently in the digital realm. Unless you really took the time to learn how to program them they simply were not as easy to get a good sound from 'fresh out of the box' as a tube amp and pedal. 'Feel' probably has more to do with things like sag, impedance, responsiveness (lack of latency), sound wave reflections from the walls, ceiling, floor, and back, front and sides of the cabinet, as well as the actual air being pushed by the cabinet in your general direction. Warmth speaks primarily to the 'detail' (sample rate, complexity) of the sound, how it is EQ'd, and to some extent some would argue its variability which many think makes it sound more 'organic' (another cliche that does have the underlying implication of a certain random factor). We humans tend to rebel when things sound too 'orderly' or 'digital'; in short, too perfect. It is sort of like the old argument between fans of the 'Rolling Stones' versus 'Yes'. How much grit and flaws do you like/need in your rock & roll? Modeling has finally gotten to the point where I believe it does a very good job of being able to get the feel and warmth of a tube amp without some of the attendant problems of constant repairs and maintenance, tube replacement, vulnerability to shocks and vibration, temperature and humidity changes, etc.. A modeler also has the benefit of predictably reproducing the same basic sound every time it is plugged in, affected of course by the room just like analog equipment, but the source sound remains more constant with digital equipment. Most of all digital has the huge benefit of the sheer amount of effects and virtual amps that can be carried around in a light package at a lower cost; not to speak of the potential for speedy innovation. I would agree many people cannot tell the difference on Youtube videos between a recorded tube amp and a modeler. I don't really think that is a fair test. By the time the amp and modeler are miked up, run through a DAW, and then played through computer speakers, the differences between the two are vastly diminished. A much more valid test is to have people turn their back in a blind test where they are actually in a room with the equipment. The differences between how tube amps and modelers/FRFRs tend to generate sound are much more audible then. Those differences can be even more evident when you are not just listening but actually playing through the equipment such that the elusive element 'feel' comes into play. I don't put much stock in these sort of comparison videos anyway there is such a huge array of variables that must be set properly to compare things apples to apples. With that said, modelers are getting so good that the advantages of modelers simply have begun to outweigh the benefits of tube amp and analog pedalboard setups for many players. Device makers like Fractal and Line6 are modeling feel (amp parameters like 'sag', etc.) as well as providing myriad tools to get the 'warmth' and even flaws or variability associated with tube amps' and vintage effects' sounds. These methods include various EQ's, IRs, and digital effects that can emulate elements like tape warble or the light bulb flicker in a Univibe, etc.. The sampling rates are plenty high now too and that means a more contiguous and complex sound wave can be created/emulated. I really like amsdenj's comment about the next step forward being to create amps and effects that don't exist in the analog world. Of course that is exactly what the analog amp and pedal makers were trying to do but they did not have the far vaster array at their disposal of digital virtual 'circuits' and processing to play with which can be quickly and easily reconfigured without having to solder capacitors and transistors, design and manufacture circuit boards, or find just the right material for the cone and coil for a speaker. Anyway, I took the plunge, I rarely ever use tube amp and effects any more. To me the advantages of modeling technology direct to the PA simply outweigh my older methods. I know we are on a forum dedicated to the use of modeling equipment and as such the perspective is bound to be skewed towards a digital approach but I do think we are finally starting to see a genuine sea change in what equipment will be used going forward. This applies not only in the studio but particularly for live performance where light, dependable, and flexible are of utmost importance unless you have a crew of roadies and techs at your constant disposal.

I agree with the whole approach of using an FRFR or just a powered PA speakers for a monitor. They tend to give you the best idea of what will be coming out of the PA and make it far easier to customize your presets predictably. Use one at home and go direct to to the PA at church with the second speaker as your monitor. You can even dispense with the monitor at church if your soundman can get you a good enough guitar feed from the mixing board in the PA's vocal monitors (assuming that you can live with that just go direct to PA from Helix). If you don't have the cash to shell out for one or two of the more expensive Line 6 Stagesource speakers or FRFRs there are plenty of less expensive powered PA speakers that work great. People have even reported good results with some of the least expensive models like the Altos.

So true, professional musicians get to do their whining in guitar magazines, television interviews, and most of all in 'power ballads'. ;)

I suggest humming as well and a large bottle of Ripple, makes everything sound better... :P

Did you do the global reset (FS 9&10 on the floor version) before loading your presets?

Thanks for the response. I hope this helps some other users experiencing update issues.

When you say you checked every preset do you mean you tried all the snapshots? Rebooting will always reset the display back to normal (EXP1/EXP2). I find simply selecting a restored preset does not invoke the bug so what you are seeing seems to be consistent with that. You can scroll through and select presets and not invoke the bug. I have to start selecting snapshots on a preset that has not had the fix applied for the bug to appear and the scribble strip to get stuck on 'EXP 1'.

Nice tip on using an alternate browser and glad to hear you got your Helix back in action. I am curious, you said your Helix was bricked. Usually that means either a scary message is frozen on the screen or it will not boot completely or properly. Often the Updater cannot communicate with the Helix when it is in that state. Did you manage to get back to it booting normally before updating or were you able to update while it was 'bricked'? What were the symptoms of your bricked unit? Hoping your experience can help someone else.

No doubt this is where a lot of people go wrong. They update the firmware using their current version of the Updater without downloading the Helix app first which, as has been pointed out, has the latest versions of the Editor, Updater, and driver. Ideally each version of the Updater should check to see if you have the matching driver and Editor on your computer before allowing you to upgrade to the latest firmware. That would prevent a lot of the firmware/software mismatches that have caused many users' update issues. Line6 says they are working on changing the upgrade process for 2017 so that the process will become more bullet-proof. Until then, you best bet is following the release notes to the letter and reading the forum for tips on the upgrade process. Preaching to the choir here, I know.

My post was referring to restored presets that had not been fixed. Sometimes they work normally for several clicks and then they go buggy. Every preset I have fixed acts normally every time, no problems. I like my bugs to be consistent, if you're gonna break, break reliably... ;)

I know what you mean. I have found some of my restored presets that have not been fixed yet don't display the behavior after a reboot. They sort of work normally although if I press the snapshots enough times they display the bug. I actually find this more disconcerting then them consistently displaying the bug.

Don't know if you have tried actually downloading the 2.10 Helix app again. I would try that as well as the uninstall and then reinstall. Did you do the global reset (backups first!)?