HonestOpinion

Delighted to hear it is working!

From what I am seeing in other posts this is all about getting Native properly authorized with Line6. Make sure you have a proper internet connection and a registered copy of Native tied to your account first and then deauthorize/reauthorize Native. You can do that by clicking on the gear icon or your username in the bottom left hand corner of the Native screen. Bring up the Authorize/Deauthorize dialog box and re-authorize Native.

My experience has been similar. I just don't find enough of a difference to warrant not using my Master volume for on-the-fly stage monitor adjustments.

This post speaks to some of the inherent compromises demanded by an effort to get as close to stage volumes as possible when designing presets. There can often be a substantial difference in a preset's tone when it is played at low or high volume due to the Fletcher Munson curve. Hence the common advice is to design the presets you intend to use for stage at a volume that is closer to stage levels than bedroom levels, making sure to use adequate ear protection. We still have to make compromises here though as few people are going to actually crank their presets up to actual performance levels while designing them. Many people find that band rehearsal can provide a final opportunity to tweak your presets at something more closely resembling performance levels. Similar compromises are required when you use your Master volume only for your onstage monitoring therefor sending the full Helix output to the FOH. Theoretically leaving your Master volume at max ensures the closest match between what you hear from your stage monitor and what the audience is hearing from the FOH. However the convenience of not having to reach around the back of an FRFR while you are performing to adjust the volume makes the Master volume perfect for that task although admittedly it may detract to some lesser or greater extent from how closely your stage monitoring matches the FOH. I find that ultimately balancing the demands of preset design and convenience for issues such as controlling my monitor volume onstage just inherently require some give and take. While I like knowing what the ideal scenario is and letting it guide my decisions as much as possible I find myself looking for the spaces in between that balance conflicting requirements.

@phil_m's post regarding DAW recording levels: Really appreciate these points DD. I find a juxtaposition and similarity between Phil_m's recent comments in another thread on how 24 bit processing and above allows levels hitting DAWs and plugins like Helix Native to be lower than the levels you might have targeted with the older 16 bit processing standard. The increased definition in 24bit processing and above allows a certain amount of loss of bit depth due to reducing levels in a DAW without audibly impacting the signal. I think the same thing applies to how the Helix's Master volume is used. You can use lower input levels in your DAW than those recommended for apps/hardware using the older 16 bit standard, and you can also use your Master volume at less than max if it works with your setup. The loss of definition in either case, DAW or Helix Master volume is likely to be inaudible, at least up to a point. DD's comments above help tie preset design into these principles as you need to be aware if you opt not to run your Master at max of how balancing Channel volume with the Master volume may impact as he stated the response of effects downstream.

No kidding!

Sounds like all may be well but props to Propower for trying to do the right thing!

You may find this method to be a much better and simpler way to do this(if it works for your scenario). This approach just assigns both volume blocks to the expression pedal simultaneously. As you move the expression pedal one volume block's volume will go up as the other's goes down allowing you to set the balance between one path and the other. One of the advantages of this approach is it still leaves the EXP1 setting available if you wanted to assign it to, for example, a wah block. The disadvantage is that the expression pedal is now simultaneously setting the balance of both players volumes in relation to each other e.g. if you boost your volume, you reduce your bandmate's volume, that means you need to use an additional strategy, such as changing an amp model's 'Channel Volume', if you want to increase only your volume without impacting your bandmate's : Set up your two volume pedal blocks, one in each path Make sure they are both assigned to EXP2 (should assign to EXP2 by default). Doesn't matter what switch you use to bypass them, the default toe switch assignment is fine but you could always change it as detailed in the earlier post. Highlight one of the volume blocks, go to 'Global Settings' --> 'Controller Assign' and change the 'Min Value' = 100% and change the 'Max Value' to 0%. Now when you rock the expression pedal the volume block on one path will move towards 100% while the volume block on the other path moves towards 0%. Make sure both volume pedal blocks are active (not bypassed) and save the preset. Now when you rock the expression pedal at halfway both volume blocks will be at 50%. Rocking in either direction will turn the volume block up in one path simultaneously while it pulls the other one down. No need to use a footswitch or toeswitch at all in this scenario as the expression pedal will control the balance between the two volumes. Btw, I alluded to this in my original response as did a couple of other posters here. If you find the gyrations to get everything controlled from the Helix getting excessive or you are not getting exactly the result you are looking for you may find a small inexpensive mixer in combination with the Helix to be a simpler solution in the long run. It may get you a better sound for the second microphone and make balancing the two guitars easier as well. I definitely understand the fascination with trying to get it all to work solely from within the Helix though.

You are right. Hope you did not spend too much time on it. I have used this approach successfully before when I wanted a footswitch other than the toe switch to move the expression pedal between for example a wah and a volume block but the problem in this scenario is that it turns the volume block off in one path. Not sure how to get this working where it will could leave both volume blocks on when you switch and maintain the position of the last one while you operate the alternating block. I will keep working on it but not sure there is a way to do it without perhaps sending a midi control message assigned to in this example footswitch#9 back to the volume blocks to make sure they both stay on. Even that might cause an audible gap or event. Back to the drawing board.

First Question: I have never tried to set up the Helix with two mics. Not sure how a mic will sound coming into a Return input as it does not include a mic pre as the Helix's mic input does. If I did attempt this I might try to use some brand of mic preamp such as a Presonus or even a small mixer for the mic that I intended to use in the Helix Return input. Frankly I don't know how impedance issues or mismatches plugging a mic into the Return might effect the sound but you could try it. Might work just fine with the right mic and mic preamp. I suppose you could also just plug the mic into the return jack and try to use the Helix's Mic Pre block and whatever other effects you want to include but I have no idea how this would sound either. Maybe someone else here has tried this. Let us know if you get this working and sounding decent. 2nd Question: "Setting up volume blocks on two paths and using a footswitch instead of the toe switch to flip back and forth." These instructions are for making the changes on the Helix but you should be able to do this from the Editor if you prefer. Create a volume block on your first path. It will be assigned to the toe switch and EXP2 by default Highlight the volume block got to global settings and press controller #1 'Global Settings' --> 'Bypass Assign' Change the assignment from "Toe Switch" to whatever pedal switch you want on the 'Switch' parameter e.g. 'Switch' = "Footswitch 9" Create another volume block on your second path. It will be assigned to the toe switch and EXP2 by default Highlight the volume block got to global settings and press controller #1 'Global Settings' --> 'Bypass Assign' Change the 'Switch' parameter assignment from "Toe Switch" to the same footswitch you used for the volume block in your first path, e.g. "Footswitch 9" With the volume block in the second path still highlighted go to global settings and press controller #2 'Global Settings' --> 'Controller Assign' Set the parameter 'Controller' = "EXP1" Save the preset Now Footswitch #9 (in this example) will control which volume block is being operated when you click it - first path or second path. Remember, the toe switch no longer controls the two volume block bypass states. If the bypass state of the two volume blocks in the two paths is not flipping bypass states the way you want just set their bypass states to the desired combination via the Helix's 'Bypass' button e.g path#1=on and path#2=off and Save again.

I would definitely try a less aggressive high cut at a lower volume. That aggressive a cut may be exactly why you are craving more volume.

Fletcher-Munson curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

Talk to Line6 support. Maybe there is a comprehensive self-test sequence you or they can run. Maybe they tell you it was a fuse reset as intended and is so well protected there is no chance you hurt the device. Might be worth talking to them. There is also the Helix test mode (FS3&FS4 global reset on the Helix Floor at least according to https://helixhelp.com/reset-options/) don't know how comprehensive it is though, it may just test the LEDs. Hard to tell if the subsequent issues you have had are related to a heat event or just the normal glitches that occur with any piece of equipment like this over the course of multiple upgrades. Not that there aren't a ton of people who would sell this without disclosing but barring a way to definitively test the unit, the honest and right way to go about it would be to tell the buyer it had a heat event once but has seemed to operate mostly fine since and has been reliable at gigs and just take the hit when the buyer expects to get a discount on the price. Hopefully not too substantial. Btw, is there still any warranty left on it?

Doesn't sound like speaker positioning is the problem then. Try some of the other solutions - ear protection, room conditioning, EQ adjustment, monitoring your decibel level, and at the risk of being redundant, turning it down.

A "better" sound is pretty subjective but the difference in the frequency response curve and the way a smaller speaker can emphasize more mids/high-mids might get you closer to the sound you want without all the volume.

Scary man! Cruisinon2's has it right, listen to the doctor and do yourself a huge favor and get some serious db cut earplugs if you have a tendency to play at loud volumes. If as you said you are experiencing ear pain, you are well on your way to permanent hearing damage. You really need some ear protection. There is no substitute! Also turn down the volume, save your hearing while you can! A couple of things that might get the volume reduced without killing the tone you like: Don't know how you have them positioned and this might seem counter-intuitive but if they are pointing at your legs you might want to angle them towards your ears and turn the volume down. Have to say though a pair of L3Ms in your average basement ought to be able to blast you out at high volume settings even if they're face down on the floor :-( Put up some absorbent materials if your basement is all hard surfaces. Hang a couple of blankets on the wall and/or ceiling, egg shell cartons, acoustic insulation, throw down a rug, move a couple of couches in there, whatever it takes to cut down on the reflections off hard surfaces. Concrete and cinder-block basements can be killer that way. Turn down your volume and play with the EQ instead until the sound cuts through the way you like it without ear-damaging volume. Consider turning up the mids so the sound cuts with less volume. Consider getting some less powerful and much smaller speakers like 8" if you just can't keep away from high volume settings. They can be FRFRs, guitar amp, studio speakers, whatever suits you. Anything that doesn't pump out so much volume. Download a free decibel meter on your smartphone/ tablet or you can buy one and monitor your volume. They can be had cheap on Amazon. Monitor your volume for a while until you get it under control. Look it up, long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can lead to permanent ear damage and it doesn't hurt to err on the conservative side of that number especially when you are practicing by yourself. Lastly, ear pain can also mean an ear infection, damage or some other medical issue. It is probably just the volume but if the pain persists even after getting the levels under control it is time for a visit to your local medical professional. Those guys can preserve your hearing.

Generally speaking I use primarily two different kinds of combinations of amps for max versatility depending on the sounds I'm going for. Sometimes I use the clean, crunch, lead channels of the same amp for consistency as mentioned by DD and other times I use a combination of amps that are renowned for their clean sounds such as a Fender, Roland Jazz Chorus, or maybe even a HiWatt, combined with an amp model famed for its crunch/dirt/lead tones like a Marshall, Soldano, Mesa Boogie, or any of the higher gain amp models. A little EQ and tone shaping after the amp/cab and you can give even fairly different amps some measure of consistency. Sometimes I find that is the best way to get the perfect clean and the perfect lead tone even if it is not quite as seamless as using multiple channels of the same amp. And of course you can always blend the two - clean and dirty. If you are looking for the absolute most versatile combination in a single preset I would probably use a combination of different amps/cabs and leverage them with snapshots. You seem to be on the right track with your original post and some of the specific suggested amps in other folks' responses. I think it comes down to what works with the material you cover and also what tones sound good to you. The beauty is if one preset doesn't cover it, there's another empty slot waiting for some variation. I have a few general purpose presets that are a catchall and then a bunch of specific presets named after and designed to nail the sound I hear on the cover as closely as possible. Sometimes constructed from the exact models the artist used if I can find it on the internet and want to go to the trouble. So easy to have it all with a digital setup. Lastly once you start adding effects it gets more difficult to pick a "most" versatile amp as they can respond quite differently when pedals are applied.

Good luck getting things fixed up properly. Sounds like a visit to the service center is the way to go at this point.

You mention that you rolled back to 2.70. If the firmware rollback was successful did you also roll your HX Edit version back. Is the sound muted at the 1/4 outputs and headphones when you disconnect the USB from the computer and restart the LT? A global reset does sound like a likely place to find relief, if that does not work I would try updating the firmware again. Not to belabor the obvious but since i don't see these mentioned here: Expression pedal is in the toe-down position Probably good here as you are getting sound in tuner and USB but ensure guitar is plugged into the 'Guitar In' input and the Input block is set to Multi or Guitar, couldn't hurt to try another guitar and cable either Have you tried alternate headphones or monitors/cables on the 1/4 output on the incredibly small chance that both the headphones and monitors have a cabling or hardware issue

I have not done the A/B comparison although it appears to be close enough for rock & roll. It is great that there is a workaround and one that works well; contingent as it may be on having extra cable(s) and DI(s) in good working condition. I will never be as much of a fan of a jury-rigged workaround with additional points of failure as I am of an elegant solution that uses only the core equipment as intended with minimum fuss. In the big picture though this is just not a looming issue for me. Hopefully it will be addressed at some point, even if only on later hardware but you won't be seeing my Helix up on REbay any time soon over this. Lastly if the choice was damaging speakers or alternatively sometimes necessitating a DI connection it would seem Line6 made the correct decision. At least for now...

I'm with you, I'm a freaking boy scout when it comes to redundancy and unexpected contingencies and I always carry a couple of DI's, but it is a disruption to my setup. For example, my master volume only controls my 1/4 outputs and goes to my stage monitors. My XLR outputs go direct out to the board. That means that not only do I need an extra TS cable(s) and DI(s) but I also have to remember to switch what is controlled by my global Master volume setting. If you know you are dealing with phantom power ahead of time, it only takes a couple extra minutes to set up, not a huge setback but yup, less than ideal. If like me you set up directly from the XLRs to PA by default and you are caught off guard by the phantom during the show a bit more of a problem. I realize I could set up with DIs by default but I prefer the more direct approach wherever possible for the reasons I listed in my previous post.

Really good points. Perhaps initially there was some scenario or potential in the firmware/software that could blow out PA speakers if people did not follow the correct power-up protocol(Helix first, then PA) and/or power-down(PA first then Helix). Or maybe it wasn't just about the plugging-unplugging scenario and they were also trying to guard against random ghosts in the machine during normal operation while already being connected. Also curious regarding your observation about the other outputs. Just speculating but perhaps the anti-pop circuitry exists in for example the 1/4 outputs as well but as we know, because it is a TS instead of TRS connection, it is not impacted by phantom power. Just clutching at straws and I will certainly take the phantom power issue in lieu of blown speakers just because I forgot one time and neglected to follow the proper power-up procedure or because, and this is wild irresponsible speculation, there is the remote possibility that there could be a speaker damaging pop during "normal" operation. Have to agree with you though, that is quite a trade-off and it seems like it would be worthwhile for Line6 to meet the challenge of dealing with the pop potential and also being able to deliver a worry-free standard XLR connection.

As always Phil, u da man! Thanks very much for responding, that is the first time I have ever heard a justification for the design. Now all they have to do is figure out a way to keep the anti-pop feature and get rid of the vulnerability to phantom power. Hopefully they are not mutually exclusive.

Apologies for the topic hijack but how do you like the Steinberger Spirit? Always loved the headless Steinberger design and the Spirit can be had fairly cheap these days.

Some discussions are just so nostalgic, but in a bad way, like that time Uncle Fred got Legionnaires' from the local Chipotle . Pete, you are simultaneously warning not to tempt fate "you'll break something" while later asserting that the "phantom power will not damage Helix". While those two statements are in direct opposition to each other I get it. I also don't tempt fate and pushing phantom power through any circuit including any mic not designed for it is not the best practice. Many devices deal with it transparently however. It would be nice if Line6 device users did not have to worry about it, especially in future devices. People seem to still be warning about it with the LT and Stomp so not sure why it wasn't changed in the devices that followed the Helix. The issue was well documented by then. I would be interested to know what exactly in the Helix design creates this problem. At least according to amsdenj it appears not to be an issue with the output from the Powercab which gives Powercab owners a way to easily address the problem. The workaround using DI(s) still chafes me as direct from XLR outputs to the PA is the gold standard and at least theoretically the best way to go. Any solution that requires additional cabling, impedance changes, jacks, and boxes to get there is in my mind less than ideal. Luckily the mixers(per channel phantom) and stage setups(no mics requiring phantom) I overwhelmingly encounter allow me to use my XLR outputs with no issue. Just think Line6 should stop releasing devices with this issue or alternately explain why their design makes it impossible/difficult to fix but offers an advantage that makes the compromise worthwhile. I always find it easier to comprehend issues when someone tech"splains" the reason to me.