Wondo100

Hey David, I have been down that road before. It is easy to give up on the Helix and then especially when adding the Powercab. It is hard to accept sometimes that because the Helix covers SO much ground, that plugging in and landing on the tone you like is not so easy. It is not always plug and play. First thing to do is determine what you want the Helix and Powercab for. If you are getting it to replace your tube rig and make things easier, in the long run that is possible, but you will not land there right away. With a regular amp, you just plug in and then turn some knobs. The Helix is a professional piece of gear suited for studio and live playing. It is a big investment in time to get things right, but well worth it in the end. To say the Helix is garbage is just not fair. It is just something that takes time to learn. If you have the Engl stereo power amp, try plugging the Helix in to that with no cabs and into a regular speaker cabinet. That sounds awesome. Adding Powercab is another learning curve. Gets good results, but takes time. Garbage they are not. I own the Helix and have had the PC 112 and 212. For me, running the Helix in 7CM with two Hughes and Kettner Grandmeisters sounds the best for what I want from a live rig, recording is Helix all the way. With my live rig it has taken quite sometime to even dial that in because with the Helix there are so many ways to hook things up and how it interacts with the amp takes some work, but that would be true with any multi effects. I have dialed in some great tones now, and I know the Helix is not garbage.

Still no ideas about this? I continue to have issues with this.

Well, when it comes to the PC, be prepared to spend time tweaking like you do with the Helix. What I have come to learn with the PC and the Helix is that the tonal options are huge, so expecting it to land on what you like is not realistic. You need to spend time with it. I had two PC112s and sent them back because I had spoken to a few people on the forums that suggested what I was going for might be better produced with the PC212. Got the 212 and have had it a couple of weeks and have spent some time with it. Still working on getting to fit in just right. However, I do see some promise with this unit. Here are some things I discovered and if anyone here has a different approach or I am doing something wrong....all advice welcome! When you get the PC make sure you first download the latest firmware update. Turn off. Turn back on. Make sure you download PC Edit (If you are using Helix into PC via L6 Link, you will not need much of PC Edit, but will need it to load IRs. If you are not using L6 Link and going into PC with XLR or 1/4 inch, then you need to be storing your presets in the PC and controlling changes through MIDI). First big learning curve- getting the right gaining stages to drive the PC. The jury is out on this one as many here have different ways of doing this. Below is one way: You can leave the PC as is. That is don't adjust any of the levels on the PC and just use the Helix. If using L6 Link. In Global Settings on the Helix have the Master Volume on Helix for digital turned OFF. (This is like having the big Volume Knob always all the way up). Use only the Amp Channel Volume to drive the PC and perhaps bring up the Output Block as needed. You could default to 0.0db and add in a +3db boost if you like. If you can get the PC to move from green and into the orange with perhaps an occasional dip into the red, then you have a really good signal to the PC. You do not want it pushing into the red easily, but you do not want it staying in the green either. Another way of doing this is how I am finding is working best for me, but I have not tested all of the presets I will be using to see if this works without too much volume variation: Using FRFR, Speaker and IRs If using L6 Link, control everything through the Helix. PC Edit to load IRs. No need to save presets as the Helix will call up your PC settings as stored in the preset through the Helix. If using XLR or 1/4, then extra steps of storing and possibly assigning MIDI will be required. If wanting to use FRFR in a preset and even within a snapshot within that preset, pick your cab or IR model in the Helix and that is what will be sent to the PC. This usually sounds good as is. May need to adjust ch volume or output block. Keep all of your Helix settings as you normally would when listening to studio monitors. Speaker mode in the PC for me, as many have stated, are mediocre. Some of the models are okay, but not as good as bringing in your own IRs IMHO. Choose IR mode and load in some IRs. What are good IRs for the PC? Matter of preference really, but I have found that the Redwirez are really the best for the PC IMHO. Don't know what it is about them, but there are some really good options there. I own Ownhammer, Live Ready Sound, Celstion, Sun City, Arcadia. I use all of these in the Helix and only some Ownhammer and Live Ready Sound in the PC. Redwirez are showing up in the PC pretty much all of the time for me now. You can get the free Redwirez GM12 pack from their Big Box set to try them out. Definitely worth the effort. They just sound like a real speaker in the room. Some of the Allure IRs already loaded in the PC are also not bad. Here is where the debate is. A lot of people keep the PC speaker levels at -18db and increase the gain staging from the Helix. All fine and good, but I find that the speakers in IR mode sound muffled and off in the distance even when you bring up any gain staging in the Helix. We are used to having our amps do all of the work to push a cab. In analog world, yes, that is what we do, but in digital world, the speakers have the options of being increased in volume. What I do is bring the speaker levels up in IR mode. I usually bring it up between -12db and -10db. When I do this, the PC input goes into the orange and sometimes dips into the red, but only when really picking hard. This sounds really good. The plus is that when I switch to FRFR mode, I do not have to tweak hardly anything in the Helix. However, you will need to bring up the speaker volume in FRFR mode, unless you want to lock in Ch. Volume and Output Block Volume in snapshots within the Helix. This is another way of doing this. So, do not be afraid to bring up the speaker levels in the PC. That is why there is the option to do this. I think this is really where the PC comes alive. So, all of this said, can the PC sound like an amp in the room? Yes. It can. Can it sound like a tube amp? Yes, believe it or not it can. It took me a while to get there and some people on here know the pains I went through to get here. The key is to not give up (I did a few times, but ended up with the PC again determined to figure this out). If you hate taking the time to dial in the tone, then don't get the PC. Better yet, don't even use the amp models in the Helix. Just use it as an FX processor and run it 4CM with your tube amps. Sounds great and it is usually plug and play. Of course you will also need to set up MIDI, but all things considered, it is an easier route. However, if you can spend the time with the PC and work with it in FRFR and IR mode (maybe speaker mode if Line 6 can do an upgrade) and getting both options to line up, the possibilities are endless. I have even toyed with sending the 212 back, but with the Holiday deal getting $250 off the price, I think it is worth it to just put the time in and get this working. We all won't be gigging at any usual capacity for a while, so why not take this time to dial it in?

Oh, okay. That would make sense, I think in that you have to adjust levels to go from one to the other. I think I noticed that happening, but once you get everything programmed for a specific preset, going back and forth should not show up.

I am new to the 212 and have not experienced this yet. Yet being the operative word here. How, do I avoid this?

Okay, So spent some time with the PC 212. Here is what I have discovered. FRFR always works good with either some stock cabs in the Helix but mostly I prefer some IRs that I have. I have some Ownhammers, Redwirez, Celstion, Sun City. So, with FRFR, with those IRs, I am getting really good tone. The stock speaker choices in the Powercab are not to my liking. The stock IRs, a couple of the Allure sound really good, but I am primarily using either the Live Ready Sound Powercab pack or the Redwirez Modern Classic Pack which is really doing a great job. What I like about running to from the Helix to the PC with the L6 Link is that I can choose between IRs or FRFR. The challenge is getting the volumes to match. I am usually brining the speaker volume with the IRS in the PC to between -12db and -10db as I find that the -14db is just not hitting the PC in the right way. I know I can use either the output on the preset or the amp ch volume, but I am finding that bringing the speaker volume up just a couple of db sounds more like AITR for me anyway. Then, I have to increase the FRFR speaker volume up to its +6db. My lingering questions with this is if I am sending XLR out to monitors or FOH, what is being sent out? I think it is the speaker mode? Since I am not running any cabs in the Helix when using PC IRs. Also, how do I get the Helix to control the global setting of the Stereo spread on the PC? In other words, if I have the Helix set to control the PC in preset mode, can I go in and choose global and choose the stereo spread I want and have that locked to snapshots and be able to have that changed within a snapshot or preset? For example, I have one snapshot that uses PC IR and the other uses FRFR with Helix IR, but I want the Helix IR with FRFR to have a wider stereo spread. Other than these questions, all seems to be working good. Still not sure if I should just leave the volume levels alone on the PC and just control everything from the Helix, but as I mentioned, I just feel a couple of db bump on the PC sounds better than the output level bump on the Helix. Came to the conclusion that the PC will not replace any of my tube amps. I was hoping to do that to make life simpler, but there is just so much good with the tube amps, and there are good things about the PC. Not saying that the more time I spend with the PC, might allow me to not use the tube amps as much.

Yes. I know they will not see it. I already put a ticket in. Just stating a fix this please as a statement for all of us.

Same here. Sucks! We all looked forward to 3.0 and it came and left its mark. Fix this please.

I have a new 212+ and it came with the latest firmware. No hiss at all when volume knob is off. Did you try to plug it in to a different outlet or maybe in another room in the house just to see if it is the room or the particular outlet?

Actually was not raving about it. I was replying to a thread about using IRs and what sounds good in the PC as opposed to the stock cabs, etc. I would really love to rave about the PC, trust me. I want this thing to work. I also did not say it sux. I am trying to get it to sound good compared to my amp and cabs. I am trying to eliminate the convoluted 7CM and have an easier more flexible solution in the PC. Taking time off to fool my ears does not work, because as soon as I compare the PC with a dialed in tone to my tube amps and cabs, the ears immediately know the difference. I take no offense to what you said rd2rk, because you have been the biggest help to me so far on the forum and I know you are suggesting to just take some time away, but that is not feasible right now. I only have a small window of time where I can dial things in or send it back. For those with experience, I am hoping for some technical advice.

I must be doing something wrong. Was playing the Helix through 7CM into two Grandmeisters. Sounds great, but the amount of programming involved with those two amps and MIDI, etc. plus all of the cables was just a lot. I wanted the simplicity And versatility of the Power Cab. Got two 112s, did not like the tone too much. Kind of Boxy, but then again I have played mostly 212s and 412s for a very long time and 112s were never my favorite. After speaking with several people on the forums, I was convinced the 212 would be more to my liking. Well, it is a great amp for sure, but running into that muffled sound again. I have a good signal so that the inputs are orange. I am using the IR setting. I have lots of good IRs. The Redwirez sound good, but most everything else, muffled and only some of the Redwirez sound the way I think they should. After dialing in some tones, switched back to the tube amp rig and everything is wide open and organic. I know the PCs can sound good, so I have to be doing something wrong. I want to figure this out somehow.

Ok. Got the 212. Digging it. What a great addition to the Helix.

rd2rk is correct. Those options are great places to start. The Allure free pack already comes installed in the PC + ( I think all of that pack is there, correct me if I am wrong). The Redwirez free GM12 pack is awesome and a great way of knowing how things can sound. Of the IRs for PC, these are some of the best so far. I like the LiveReadySound has IRs already designed for the Powercab. However, that being said, I feel the Allure and the Redwirez have more presence to them. The LiveReadySound are good, but I have only liked them when I mixed them with an Allure or a Redwirez. The Ownhammer are always a good bet, but I find these sound better in the Helix and using the PC in FRFR mode. That is where they shine. For just the IR mode in the PC, the ones mentioned are the best. If you are new to PC, be aware that until Line 6 changes their IR availability on the marketplace, you will need to go to the product source pages for IRs and make sure that they are in .wav files and in 48kHz-24bit. The ones being sold on marketplace only work in the Helix not in the PC. We suspect, they will be changing that at some point and offering the PC as one of the hardware devices to choose from in the market place, but now it is not and so be forewarned.

Watching the Helix Hour and noticed at around 24:00 minutes in the video, there was a loud hiss that happened with the 212 and it had to be turned off and on again. I had this happen a couple of times with a new PC + 112. Sending my pair back and getting the 212. I am hoping this is not a known issue. Has anyone experienced this? Follow the link below and look at 24:00 HELIX HOUR

Yup. The Helix and PC gets priority...

Any word on Big Sur yet? My computer keeps wanting to update, but I will not until it is compatible with my Line 6 gear.

Where do I find a link to that rig?

And rd2k, you are the person that got my 7CM preset working so good. If I hold on to these PCs, I will be running two PC 112s through L6, and two GMs through 7CM, and studio monitors through XLR, and an acoustic amp for my Piezo pickup. This should keep me busy for the rest of my life....

Thanks man. Think I might keep these a while closer to the return policy end. If I am going to be doing some ambient stuff, I may want something like what the PCs can do, especially with the FRFR option. Obviously I have good studio monitors with the Yamaha HS7, but if I am going to showcase any of the ambient stuff, the PCs would be a better pick for me than my Grandmeisters. I got a good deal on them. $150 off of each of them. If I keep them all hooked in to the Helix, I can switch between Powercabs, Studio Monitors, and 7CM with the Hughes and Kettner and can control everything from the HX Edit. Everything is already all hooked up. Unbelievable that the Helix can do all of this. Just the connectivity of the Helix is worth the price of admission!

All of that was very helpful. I now have good gain staging set up. Dialed in some FRFR stuff with IRs in the Helix. Used the different FR settings for the PC. Used some IRs for the PC, especially the LRS powercab pack which is good. Got some tones that are pretty usable. However, made the mistake of bringing up my 7CM preset in the Helix into my two Grandmeisters, bypassed all amp models and cabs. Used only effects and routing in the Helix, and sounded so much better. I think my conclusion is that the power cabs are good for using as monitors for your Helix presets. The speaker sims in the PC are nice, but does not take you to that same place as a real amp and cab and if you have great presets in the Helix with internal IRs, PC works best as FR speaker. So, since I have a great set of studio monitors, Yamaha HS7, I will use the Helix modelers and cab sims through the HS7 with my DAW to record and create ambient presets. But, for most of my other guitar playing, I will be going into the Helix in 7CM to my two grandmeisters. That is a much more organic tone. I might actually play out with another ambient player who has had some ambient gigs and if I do, I might just get an FRFR stereo cab for that. I don't think I would use the speaker sims since my ambient presets will all be dialed in with the internal IRs on the Helix. Although, since I have both PCs at this point, I may work with them a bit longer and actually keep them around because they do serve a good purpose. If ever I wanted to get FRFR cabs again, the PCs are probably a really good option.

Got to save that write up. That is exactly what should be in the manual. And, some of the techs on the customer service hotline could use this too. Thanks!

I have been coming here a lot lately and do my best to show respect for those that have knowledge in using the gear at a level that I do not have yet. I have been playing for over 30 years. Played small rack systems at one point, but mostly tube amps with either effects processors or some stomp effects. Took the dive with the Helix because of all of the possibilities with modeling, effects and connectivity and now trying to figure out best set up for Power cabs. I often get discouraged with the steep curve to learn all of this, but I have given up many times before only to come back and try to figure things out. I am determined to learn because I know this gear can deliver, but it is not as easy as plugging into a tube amp and a couple of pedals. It takes time and work and I am grateful for those that can help. Maybe I can help others as I learn more.