JimGordon

I knew that Digital Igloo only rarely pops in here. I guess I'm just puzzled as to why up through the 3.15 update they had notices of the new updates, and then suddenly stopped. It just seems odd that they wouldn't want to keep potential buyers and new users aware of the new features they add. I bought the Helix when I did (in mid 2019) after seeing the announcement of the planned new features for version 2.8 on this page, and saw that the Helix was clearly a continually improving product (when it was first released, the dearth of models kind of turned me off- no Mark series Mesas?).

Maybe if you have your guitar volume very close to all the way down, as opposed to just the output volume from your speakers. I vaguely recall a bit of glitchiness if i was trying to clean up a higher gain patch with my guitar knob almost all the way down. Do you have the input pad on? That also might be causing the guitar signal to die out early, which could make it harder for the Helix to track it. Otherwise, as others have said, it is likely you hearing the unaffected "acoustic" string ringing at a higher pitch than the amplified sound.

The Vitriol Crunch model no longer totally farts out like a broken fuzz pedal when you increase the gain (either pre or post) above 7. It's still a bit tubby sounding and not that tight, but it sounds about how you'd expect the channel to sound after hearing the real Invective crunch channel in videos. In other words, it's usable without having to put the Horizon drive in front of it to cut the bass frequencies going into it. Thank you to the team for fixing this, and ignoring people who say "what's the big deal? it sounds cool broken!". There's a difference between keeping around something that is "souding different due to the underlying modeled example having an issue" (like the original Rat), and completely jacked up, like the VC model was. You can always stick a fuzz in front of the Vitriol if you want that sound again, anyway. On an unrelated note, is there a reason why no one puts a sticky/announcements anymore for new firmware releases on this page? It doesn't make sense for newer users who might not know about places like Gearpage (and the endless threads about the next update) to not be alerted to the new updates before connecting the Helix to the internet for the auto-update. It also makes no sense PR-wise. Just curious....

There definitely is noticeable sound improvement when increasing distance with the new cabs, as opposed to just using high cuts and distance with the old cabs. With the old ones, you would lose much more presence and high end moving the distance, and especially using high cuts. I'm actually looking forward to the next set of cabs/mics to be modeled, because the new method just retains more of the frequencies than the older "filter method"....and for me, I previously did not care as much about improving the cab block before hearing it in this update.

Please add the 112 Dynamic Mic (AKG) into the new guitar cabs section; the top end on those is useful if you want more high end presence "grind". Also, as someone else said, a new WhoWatt cab model would be great.

Oh, you'll get it in spades. If this is a bug, and "not as intended", you may want to ask them to keep the bugged model renamed as "Vitriol Taco Bell" if they fix it........

Yeah, I tried to see if messing around with the Post Gain would help, but that only makes it sound quieter, and less gainy in an "unhelpful" way, without eliminating the "fart". Guess the Horizon drive may be the only way to make it usable at higher pre gain settings, without completely altering the character. I tried the Pillars pedal first, but it didn't seem to help much at any of the settings. Seems like the bass jumps way up at the input stage at 7.1. Lowering the actual bass control or resonance really does nothing for this issue....

Actually, a Sunn guitar amp model was on my list of "overdue" missing Helix amps. I actually felt a bit let down that there were only 2 new amps in the update, after all the "mysterious" hype from people in the know saying that there would be so much new stuff in the update. We are still missing a few well known amps/amp families that are industry standards: a VHT Pitbull of some sort, a Laney (Supergroup would be nice), Bogner Ecstacy, and some others. I do appreciate this stuff is free, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to them rounding out the collection and filling in the missing spots. However, now that I found out that the new cabs are essentially thousands of IRs funneled into a user friendly UI, I can sort of see why there weren't more amps and effects: all that shooting of IRs takes time and manpower. And I won't lie, the results are actually more impactful than I thought they'd be, even for a guy like me who uses real combo speakers. The 57 mic'd cabs previously sounded grainy, undefined and muffled, so I'd always need to include a 112 dynamic in a matching dual cab with it. Now, there is this punch and clarity, and high cuts don't muffle things quite like they did before. That said........why are the Catalyst amps not included? It seems like such an obvious win from a metrics standpoint to throw in 6 new amp models that are already completely designed, and make the update seem that much more impactful from a "new toys" standpoint. They use HX technology too, so I don't see why they weren't ported over. From a business standpoint, it would make sense- for people who start w/ a Catalyst amp, if they decide to move to a Helix, they'd have a few familiar models they could rely on while learning how the other ones work. And the Helix and Catalyst are not in direct competition with each other- the Catalyst is focused on providing a relatively cheap, loud amp, with a range of models to make it versatile and better sounding than, say, the 90s solid state Peaveys that were dominating the "cheap loud amp" market.

So, when using the Vitriol Crunch model, when the pre-gain is set up to and including 7, it behaves "fine", if a bit "tubby" and undefined. However, the moment you set it to 7.1 or above, it suddenly loses all definition and becomes like a bloated fuzz pedal disguised as an amp model. I've seen video demos on youtube from Ola Englund and Kyle Bull, where it definitely had a fuzzy and undefined low end, but not to this extreme. Could this be a modeling bug? I could see it becoming this bad set to like 9.7 or so, but it seems like the gain taper is "off" and just shoots up without warning. I tried EQ'ing before and after to cut lower frequencies, but none of that worked. Maybe someone who has used it in Metallurgy can answer if this is the way their model works. On a related note, I did find a workaround for this. After hearing that the master boost needs to be engaged in the real thing (Invective) to make it sound "good", I decided to put a Horizon Drive in front of it, because the guy who they consulted to design this amp was also the guy who came up with the Horizon Drive concept. Set the gain to relatively low, level to 10, and "attack" to 3, and guess what? The uncontrollable low end vanished at higher pre gain levels. Lowering the attack to "2" reintroduces some of the tubbiness, but not to the ridiculous levels you hear without the pedal. What's weird is that the lead channel model doesn't have this issue.....

While I agree there are a number of real-life models that the Helix still should get (such as the MRX Distortion +, some kind of Fryette/VHT amp, Laney, etc), this isn't an "either or" choice. The models have already been created using HX tech, so this wouldn't take away from time spent on any other models, and honestly, the more we have in Helix, the better. I held off on buying a Helix for 3 years because the list of models at launch was frankly too small. Regarding cannibalizing sales, I don't see that being a factor at all. As others have said, Line 6 clearly wants to make feature-sharing across products a priority when possible. The Catalyst is in no way a "substitute" for a Helix or vice-versa; they fulfill different roles. The Catalyst is very clearly an attempt to use modeling as a superstructure for affordable amps for people who would've otherwise bought a Peavey solid state amp as one of their first amps, or as a decent sounding plug and go amp solution for people who need a backup, or just want something that sounds good enough for a quick gig. The full-on Helix, on the other hand, is aimed at people who have already been playing for a few years, or who have very specific sounds they want to achieve (and will need a lot of options), and will make the call on what type of output solution they will add. As far as NDAs, I'm aware there's no "but" about it; that said, NDAs are usually there to keep competitors from getting inside info that they could use to copy something and rush to market; the difference here is that the Catalyst models are already out in the wild.

Over at the Gearpage forums, there was a back and forth at one point where someone implied that Line 6 might not include the new Catalyst models (Carillon, Clarity, etc) in the 3.2 Helix firmware update because it would "cannibalize" sales of the Catalyst. Phil_m responded that there wasn't a fear of that, but didn't indicate whether those models would indeed be included. Given that the models have already been put out in the public domain, could someone in "the know" confirm that they will be coming to Helix? I know there's NDAs, etc, but we already know that HX modeling tech was used to create these, and frankly, the cat's already out of the bag as to what these models are all about. I'd love to have at least some scrap of info about a little of what we are going to be getting in the next update.......

I use the Helix straight into the low input a HR DeVille 4x10; I've swapped the preamp tubes to lower gain (12ay7/12at7) to deal with the twitchy volume pot, and it works pretty damn well at giving the best of both worlds- "real amp punch" and the ability to get a ton of different amp sounds out what would otherwise be a vanilla amp. The lower gain preamp tubes might help you match the FOH patch sound and the on-stage amp sound better, as there will be less added gain and noise on the amp end. Gotta say, the one drawback for me to the Hot Rod is the weight, but on the other hand, it just sounds so legit as a platform for Helix that I'm willing to compromise. Maybe the "vanilla-ness" of the Hot Rod series is what makes it good translating the modeling without as much coloration?

I know.......I didn't see the OP's new topic until I was done with my rant......

With all due respect, that's just a somewhat silly blanket statement. I've gotten very good results running the Helix into the front of my Fender Hot Rod, WITH full amp models. In fact, when I first got the Helix, some guy there on the sales floor tried to also claim I "didn't want" the full Helix if I had a real amp because it would sound "wrong". He insisted on not letting me play through a "real amp", instead forcing me to play through the Powercab (because he didn't want to haul a real tube amp over, probably!). Sounded like a muffled dull washcloth to my ears with the presets present, but despite that, I took a chance that it would sound good through a good, CLEAN tube amp. And it did....although it took a while to figure out how to build patches. To answer SJTurbo's question, an HX FX has NO amp models in it. So you wouldn't be able to get the "Litigator sound"; that sound is based around the amp modelling of tone stacks, gain, modelled power stage distortion, and so forth. HOWEVER......major, major caveat, and I mean major. If you do run it straight into an amp, how it sounds will vary greatly on the channel you use, the frequency response and range of the amplifier, how well it takes inputs without "nasty clipping", and of course, the speaker/cab. While sending a Helix straight into an amp drive channel with some gain might have its uses, generally it will sound.....well....nasty. Your amp is a Music Man RD50, which has a tube power section, but a solid state pre-amp. The solid-state preamp *might* clip unpleasantly. I remember my old, crappy solid state amp had a habit of clipping in a bad way with too much signal. I recently swapped the tubes on my amp's preamp section for lower gain tubes, and run it into the low input jack, so the signal will not clip harshly or suddenly. Now the Music Man hybrid amps like yours do have a good rep for a clean tone. I'd suggest you think about getting the Helix from a place with a good return policy. That way, you can try it out, and see if it works with your amp straight in to your satisfaction. You may find that it is adequate at least, and from there, maybe start looking at investing in a cheap, clean tube amp, a Powercab, or perhaps one of those small portable power amps.

I'm not sure what the "wah wah wah" sound you're talking about it. Have you tried putting the 12 string effect first or close to first in the chain? Are you putting it through an amp model as well (a Fender Twin model works surprisingly well for a clean 12 string sound). While it's true that a real 12 string will inevitably sound better than an effect like this, for what it's worth, it's close enough for my tastes. Oddly enough, I'm having more issues with the acoustic effect, in that it's really easy to clip the low strings in many of my patches (especially if I use a JC120 model). I've used a compressor, which has helped with the clipping in a number of cases, but adds too much sustain and compression to get the best acoustic sound. I still like having it in the Helix nonetheless, as it's still sort of adequate in the absence of a real electric-acoustic.

Paul, sorry I didn't get back to you earlier- I just uploaded it to CustomTone (my first one!). It's for Rage For Order/Mindcrime era Queensryche, so it's not the SLO sound from Empire.

If you're looking for that early Van Halen sound, you should be able to get that from cranking the bias (in addition to diming all the gain/master/tone controls) and screwing around with sag and biasX options (I *think* increasing the sag a good deal, as well as the BiasX, will reproduce the weird effect that using a variac to lower voltage would have on the power amp section), in addition to sticking the Echoplex model in front of the amp model (I forgot the exact name) with the level cranked and delay repeats set to zero. The Exotic Boost is also supposed to basically recreate the Echoplex preamp boost, if you want to go that route. Also, weirdly enough, the Soldano crunch model with gain set between 4 and 7 with an EQ set in front of it as a bandwidth boost gives a surprisingly good 70s juiced Marshall sound, complete with the "kerraannngggggg" sound that people say is missing from the Marshall models. I used it for a KISS patch that's not necessarily meant to be a 1 to 1 match with the album sound, but more of an idealized "what if" version of that sound.

As stated above, there is definitely no "one size fits all" answer here. My Helix goes right into the front of a Fender HR Deville, low input, clean, with the preamp tubes being 12AY7/12AT7 to reduce the gain/tame the volume curve and the amp EQ set fairly neutral, so the output is going through a real guitar combo cab, which will naturally tame high frequencies that might stick out on an FRFR, Powercab or DAW setup. This setup seems to be contrary to the approach a lot of people favor, so the fact that I dial in a healthy dose of presence into a lot of the amps might not work for a lot of people not using a normal guitar cab. One thing I have noticed is that some amp models, but not others, have a strange curve to the presence, where it's fine for 75-80% of the dial sweep, but things suddenly get really weird, spitty and thin in that last top part. You can see this in the Cartographer, for example- I was trying to dial out a really raspy, spitty, thin sound in one patch, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't, until I cut the presence down, which restored the body and normality. On the other hand, the Mark IV seems to do very well with presence set high, perhaps due to the fact that the amp has a lot of bass and mids, and where the tone stack is located compared to other amps. Another thing is that I think the gain settings also affect how weird and buzzy the presence control acts. Last night I was screwing around with my 80s Queensryche patch, which uses a JCM800 with the drive set under 5. I noticed that the presence was cranked up pretty high (almost all the way), yet it didn't have that spitty fizz going on; I think it's because the gain is set relatively low. I think this interactivity is one thing I like about the Helix modeling. My prior multi-effects was a Digitech RP-1000. At the time, I was impressed by how good it sounded compared to what I had expected from digital modeling. However, the parameters were so limited (no sag/bias controls, and all amps only had 3 EQ controls, gain and volume), and in retrospect, it really felt like their modeling system basically was a poor man's Kemper. In other words, they modeled a sound based on a single amp setting, and all the parameters did was take away or add EQ and a fixed gain curve from that one point, instead of modeling how the various controls and parameters interact with each other. While the Helix is not in the tier of in depth component/parameter tweaking of an Axe-FX, it does a nice job of splitting the difference, and providing the most important controls and parameters to make a difference.

While I think the expression pedal in the LT may be built slightly differently than in the normal Helix, my non-LT Helix was making creaking noises after a certain point. I ended up loosening the hex screw on the side (but not too much, or it might fall out and be a real something or other to get back in properly). Then I took a slide rule, put some silicone grease on it, and worked it in around the screws/washers to give it some lubrication. Then I tightened the hex nut back up, but only just enough that the pedal will stay in place wherever you leave it.

Thanks- I couldn't find any videos specific to the 12 string on Jason's channel, but I found a section tucked away near the end of one of his more general videos. He seems to indicate that it is an EQ, as opposed to a frequency-specific balance control. I was surprised how well this effect works; given that 12 strings have separate tunings for the top 2 strings, I was dubious about an effect that could do this without using some kind of hex-pickup that processes individual strings. Basically, this free upgrade is a substitute for paying thousands of dollars for a Gibson Custom Shop EDS doubleneck, or at the very least, a Rickenbacker. While I'm sure "the real thing" is discernably more organic sounding, it's "good enough" as far as I'm concerned for my needs now.

Bump, in case anyone has any input as to these parameters.

The Tone Sovereign (aka King of Tone) is probably the best of the traditional amp in a box pedals you'll find on the Helix. I'm not sure which other models fit this description, except maybe for the Legacy Drive, which is kind of an actual preamp in a box. I'd actually suggest trying some "not quite that clean" low gain amps, or even mid gain ones. The JC120 is a solid state model, so it won't interact with pedals in as good of a way as one of the tube ones- it's much more suited to sounds where you want the sound as clean as possible, or are going for an Police/Discipline-era King Crimson type sound. Try the Fender Deluxe, Lone Star, or Mesa Mark VI Rhythm 2 amp models. Surprisingly, the Soldano Crunch Channel also works well in situations where you want the pedal to shoulder a lot of, but not all, the burden of distortion. AC 30 models are also great for blending with overdrives and whatnot, but have a very distinct character that dominates over the pedal sound.

I'm hoping for poly versions of the legacy guitar synth effects. That would be the bomb. Also, more amp models are always welcome. Now that we finally have a Diezel model, maybe we could dive into some of the well known "boutique" amp families like the Rivera and VH4/Fryette ones, as well as the still missing Fender Super Reverb or old Laney models. Of course, that all depends on what amplifiers the team has access to...... While there are far fewer amp models this time around than I was hoping for, overall this has been a surprisingly significant update, for those of us who didn't want to have to spend additional money on the Song Remains the Same SG doubleneck, an acoustic-electric, or a 7 string guitar.

The 12 string effect is pretty awesome, but I'm not entirely sure what the bass and treble parameters do. Are these straight up EQ controls, or are they for adjusting the balance and prominence of the effect (the virtual "2nd string") on the "bass strings" and "treble strings" (i.e. the bottom and top 3 strings respectively)?

Thanks as well!