JimGordon

So 2 of the bigger factors that might make it unpredictable are: a. the power amp section appears to be some type of modeling- I'm not sure how well running 1 modeler into another modeler by a completely different manufacturer will sound (but it does look like there's a couple of controls to adjust the power amp section), and b. the amp has only 1 speaker in it, which might limit some of the tonal capabilities. That said, if you buy the Helix at a place with a decent return policy, you can see if you like it through your amp.

I do this All. Day. Long. To be fair, my amp, a Fender Hot Rod Deville, is a pretty bland amp on its own, but it has a good amount of clean headroom, so your results will vary most definitely if you are sending the full amp model into, another amp like say, a Marshall. Even on a "clean" setting, Marshalls tend to overdrive easier than other amps, and are so focused on certain frequencies, that they will probably exhibit a ton of coloration. As others said, though, you have literally nothing to lose by trying it. Even using cab models aren't necessarily a no-no, as they can be used as filters to get specific frequency shapes. What amp are you thinking of plugging this into? If you like what you hear, and you have the money, you might even want to try a full Helix. IMO, it goes very far towards completely replacing a pedalboard. The King of Tone model alone feels like it can do the job of a fair number of overdrive/boost/distortion models. And that's just 1 of many pieces of gear this can emulate, chained together.

It's funny because I'm a bit the opposite insofar as I want to have maximum variety in patches, and even within patches. I have a number of patches where in that very patch, there are 2 different amp models that I switch between. For the metal patches, it's typically a distorted, higher gain amp, paired with a clean one; I assign a switch for the amp model, and often I will associate a chorus effect with that same switch. Some patches are what I call "dual-tone", where I may have 2 different artist sounds that I try to work into the same patch, such as pairing a Police "sound" with a King Crimson "sound"- one amp (the Roland JC) is focused on the Police and 80s KC, whereas the Hi-Watt model is geared towards 70s King Crimson. I actually don't even use snapshots yet; I set up my switches to all be stomp switches, and then just hit the up/down switches to temporarily drop into pre-set mode if I want to select another patch. As far as consistency, maybe the issue you are having when switching between patches is more about the patch/amp volume. The actual relative volume of each amp model can vary wildly. For some reason, the max volume for the Derailed Ingrid model is noticeably lower than that of one of the Marshall models or a Twin. I actually ended up putting a mic preamp model after the Derailed, to boost the volume enough to match other models. Another thing I do in most of my patches is use at least 1 or 2 EQ blocks, and set a switch for the mid frequency and/or mid gain for a parametric EQ block. This essentially adds a "mid frequency" shift switch, that you will often find on more complex amps, or on modded amps. There's a lot of options you have available. If you're feeling like you're wasting potential, don't sweat it. A lot of people gravitate towards favorite amp and effects models. It's better to have all those options available for later on, when you feel the urge to experiment, than not to have them at all. Maybe you just need to see how much you can get out of a couple models, until you really have the hang of how to dive into all those parameters. I was hesitant to get a Helix at first, because the technical number of amplifier models was lower than my RP1000, and I actually held out as long as possible until the number of models and FX increased enough from launch. When I actually dove into the parameters, I was surprised at how much variance you could get from 1 helix amp, as opposed to the Digitech's very limited parameter control. The bias and sag controls alone can make one Helix amp model have the variations equivlanet to 2-3 RP1000 amp models. Just go at your own pace, and get familiar with how all the parameters work.

One thing a lot of people seem to agree on is that the Brit 2204 model seems to have noticeably more gain than the real thing. Now, coming from the RP1000, where it seemed the JCM800, among other models, was UNDER-gained, I have no problem with this- it just means that for less saturated sounds (e.g. 80s Queensryche), you need to be in the bottom half of the drive range, and then maybe use a light overdrive or booster for solos. The 2204 mod definitely has more gain than the stock version- I use it when playing something like Helloween circa 1988, although it might be more mushy than what you are looking for. Cabwise, I actually tend to use the dual cab option (separate block). Offhand, I can't remember which ones I use the most, but I'd imagine mixes of the greenbacks, blackback, 1960 T75, and the XXL (for brightness!). Pairing different mics and cabs gives you more frequency range. As far as alternative amp models, there are a number of good choices- the Cartographer, the SLO (aka Solo), and Placater all have some degree of Marshall DNA somewhere in them, but are different enough to not be "Marshall clones". Here's a bit of secret sauce I discovered- the Solo Crunch model, paired with a good overdrive pedal model that's "always on", and setting up a footswitch to simply bump the gain on the overdrive.

This clarifies things further- I appreciate it. When I experiment with the power amp input, I'll switch to "line level". No load box here, lol. I'm curious if my patches that I created for the preamp-in method will all need to be changed or not to sound ok..... Much appreciated!

Thanks for clarifying things here; I was under the impression that the power amp saturation will always occur as you approach the peak output levels, regardless of input levels. So my amp's clean channel (which is all I care about- the HR Deville's "drive" channel is crap) has no volume control, meaning that if I go straight to the power amp, it will be full on, with only the Helix volume knob controlling it. Is there a global setting for the output I should change here, like from "Instrument" to "Line"? The DeVille is 60 LOUD AS HELL watts, and I obviously don't wanna wreck my ears, but I also don't want too weak a signal hitting the front. I guess as long as I am cautious in adjusting the knob, I should be safe. The way it's set up now, using the front end low input and keeping the tone controls no higher than 50%, the sound is a bit noisy in the background on higher gain patches, but it also tends to more or less behave admirably in giving me a range from clean on a Twin patch set clean, to really organic breakup on some of the more unruly Fender models, to some great high gain sounds where you can really hear the distorted notes going from just the model distortion to a controlled feedback if you just let it sustain. If the straight to power amp option can work for my patches and setup, it would be a nice alternative with less background hiss. I don't think I'd personally want to go with the FRFR speaker option, as when I bought the unit, and demo'd it at Guitar Center, the "sales" guy flat out refused to hook it up to a clean tube amp, and made me play through some kind of Line 6 powered cab. (He also tried to shunt me off into buying an HX Stomp or FX instead, when I told him I had a real amp- not a real good sales job there, when I clearly wanted the full enchilada). It sounded so bland and muffled and all the presets sounded so similar and, well, dead........I took a chance and bought it anyway, after looking at all the parameters available, which ended up being a good thing. I'm not a huge fan of modern DI sounds or headphone out sounds from a modeler either, though.

So maybe I'm looking at this wrong or being dumb here, but whenever people talk about getting power amp distortion on a non-master volume amp, it makes it sound like the volume knob acts as an attenuator for the power amp, and that that controls the power amp saturation. I have a combo amp that really has no control over the power amp volume, and long ago when I tried running a multi FX into the power amp, it ran at full blast with really no volume control. So how would one control the volume if running the Helix straight into a power amp? I always thought the big volume knob on the Helix was supposed to be run at full or close to full, as that would be unity gain. And if there wasn't any way to control headroom on a tube power amp if no preamp is involved, how do people go direct to the power amp without full saturation occurring? I guess maybe my rule of thumb about saturation and headroom on a Helix/amp combo only applies if you are going into the front end of the amp, and the headroom in question is the preamp headroom, not the power amp?

Yeah, I go into the low input, tone controls set at 12 o'clock or lower, using full amp blocks. I know that it will color the sound somewhat compared to a neutral FRFR, and adds some noise on the higher gain patches, but it keeps it sounding very much "live amp in the room", which is a tradeoff I'm willing to make. But my amp is pretty clean, and bland, and has a 4x10 combo speaker setup, so it has a pretty decent frequency range.

I think a major factor in whether to use the preamp or full amp is how much headroom your power amp is going to have, as well as whether it is tube or not. I actually go straight into the preamp of a Hot Rod Deville using the low input and full amp models....but I don't know if that would work if it wasn't such a clean amp with a relatively high wattage. If you are going into a low wattage amp that starts distorting early in the volume curve, a full amp model might hit it with too much signal to keep things clear for the volume level you want. And if you are going into a solid state power amp, I feel that might be too "unforgiving" in terms of how it clips to handle too hot a signal. Just my .02.

Cali IV Lead is what you want for that 1986-1988 Metallica sound. Make sure you tweak the on-board 5 band graphic EQ that's on the last page of the amp's options. Don't use too much of the bass control in the tone controls as the amp's design causes that control to overload the bass and interfere with sustain; use the GEQ instead to add the low end. Stick a parametric EQ into the mix for fine-tuning to match the production, and if for some reason the gain isn't quite right or enough, add an OD to the front with only a little gain to juice it. Finally, make sure that the impedance isn't set too low; try either auto or 1M settings to ensure you are getting a sufficiently hot signal. MOP settings will need to have somewhat more mids than the Justice settings, which had massive EQ scooping in not just the mid-mids, but some of the frequencies around them too.

So I think one of the problems here is that you want to go direct input for recording ease, but your sound is pretty dependent on the actual AIR moving, as generated by a bass amp and cab. I'm still not sure that pure DI using modeling as "simulated air", no matter how good the impulse response may be, is quite there yet. I've heard some pretty good Helix users on youtube, who really understand how to use it, go DI, and it still sounds thin compared to sound coming out of a real cabinet, using a real power amp. If you are willing to forgo the DI route, however, I think you will find a lot of great options inside the Helix, if you are willing to take the time to tweak it. As someone else above said, start by dialing in some sounds using your current power amp and cabinet. Start basic by trying out some amp models or preamp models, a couple EQ modules, a close-in reverb set low for just a little bit of room ambience, and add an OD as needed. I'd also take a look at the firmware- with 2.8 they set the cabinet defaults to have high/low shelfing that's a bit closer to the real frequency cuts you'll find in guitar cabinets. But most importantly, you probably will not find anything really worth your while in the presets- those are there mostly to "show off" what effects and models can do, or give an over-idealized impression of "famous sounds". I have a feeling you may find quite a bit to like, and actually add to your sound in the Helix, if you take some time to get comfortable with it. Just remember, it's as easy to sound like lollipop using the Helix as it is to sound great, as there's not much in the way of "guardrails" (one of the disadvantages to the unit allowing you flexibility, I suppose). But once you figure out what to do, it is rewarding.

No problem. BTW, when I said make sure the input block is set to "auto" or a high value, I actually meant the impedance setting. A lower setting might be better if you are using a fuzz pedal for a more lo-fi sound, but most metal tones won't use fuzz pedals as part of it (except maybe some gnarly stoner metal sounds).

One of the few actual "rules of thumb" for multi-effects you can count on is "don't rely on stock patches". You'll do much better building your own sound once you learn the basics. That being said, there are a LOT of amp models and overdrive/distortion pedal models that can help you get what you want. First off, though, make sure your input block is either set to auto, or the highest value; otherwise, you might find the gain underpowered. Then, if you are focusing on just a general metal tone that's not based off a specific album/song/band, maybe try to create a bunch of very basic patches, each with a different amp with a parametric EQ and a graphic EQ block afterwards, followed by a speaker cab block, and then a very basic reverb that won't thin out the sound (try a room verb under the Legacy reverb categories, set just high enough to give a touch of ambience, but not so high that it thins out the sound). Then experiment, and figure out what each amp model is good at , and what the EQ frequencies accentuate. Keep in mind that the Brit 2204, which is the Marshall JCM800 model (a major player in metal/hard rock that a lot of other amps were inspired by), is actually higher gain than most of the real life JCM800s out there, so you might need to keep the drive level a bit lower than you think. There are a lot of pretty good higher-gain models in the Helix; about the only one in that category that disappointed me was the Elektrik, as it felt like it sputters out sustain-wise too quickly. The Cali Texas model is a pretty good jack of all trades for AOR hard rock sounds, as is the Cartographer. If you wanna go more metal, the Archetype is a real unsung hero. For mushier, more liquid lead guitar tones, the Soldano ("Solo") and Friedman ("Placater") can hit that sweet spot. There's just a ton of potential in there, and you shouldn't be afraid to experiment with non-obvious things, like using the Tone Sovereign with both boost and distortion modes active at the same time, with a slightly dirty "cleaner" amp. This unit demands you put in the time.......but hell, that's what the fun is about here, right?

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. First, I'd get an idea of what the basic "character" of each model is. The Mahadeva model is sharp and not so high gain, the Cali IV Lead has a distinct "midrange bark" with unrefined, "feral" distortion, the Cali Texas has a very "classic album rock but with more gain" type sound, the Solo Lead is sort of mushy/spongey but with good sustain, the Placater Dirty tends towards darker tones with a lot of gain, etc.etc. One model you might want to consider for a very versatile high gain sound is the Archetype Lead- it's not too dark, too muddy, or too bright, but it can lean in any of those directions if you want to tweak it that way. Another decent combination for old-school, more mainstream metal/hard rock is to combine the Solo Crunch with an overdrive set low in the gain. Next up is familiarizing yourself with what each EQ bandwidth tends to affect. 250K cuts can cut a bit of the muddier side of bass, while a boost between 2K-3K can add a sizzly grind. With enough tweaking, you can EQ different amp models to have some crossover. Now in terms of the lead sound, you can assign a footswitch to boost a select mid-frequency with either graphic or parametric EQ; the latter's Q control will let you expand how much is boosted. Or you can slap a simple OD/boost like the Kinky Boost or Top Secret OD in front of the amp, for a little bit more definition and gain......or you can do both, and assign the OD bypass AND the frequency boost to the same footswitch. Hope this gives some more ideas.

To address some of the things discussed: "Lots of mids" isn't *always* the answer; sometimes you just need to make the mid cut less severe or more "focused" (use the Q parameter in the parametric EQ). Everyone talks about how Metallica "found" the mids for the Black Album, but there's still a fair amount of mid-scooping; it's just that they changed the frequency and amount of the mid-cut so it didn't sound so extreme. You absolutely should use at least 1 EQ block whenever trying to dial in a metal tone. Using the amp without EQ might work for lower gain or much more "traditional rock" types of sounds, but once that gain is pumping, you are dealing with so many frequency factors heightened by the gain, that you'll need something to emphasize or de-emphasize certain frequency bands. Don't be afraid of using the "Q" parameter (sometimes you'll want to zone in on eliminating or boosting a very specific frequency without affecting nearby ones), and don't be afraid to use more than one EQ block. One microphone model that really helps bring out some bright yet well-bodied dynamics is the 112 Dynamic. Give it a shot. In addition to that, I'd really suggest using the "dual cab" block if you're not using an IR. It gives you a much wider spectrum of control. You could have the same cabinet doubled, but with different mics for each one to get a broader sound. And make sure the volume level is decently set on them. Not sure if I'm the one to advise on "modern" metal (my metal tastes are more old-school/power/80s aggressive melodic metal), but the Archetype Lead gives a good defined sound. The new Revv model is good as well, as well as the "Epic" Line 6 model. In fact, there's quite a few that will give a ballsy sound if you EQ it right. If all else fails, you could try the old "Tubescreamer/overdrive model with low gain/high volume in front of the amp" trick to tighten things up, set it as on by default when paired w/ the high gain amp, and set one of the switches to bump the gain up a bit for the lead parts...........

I believe someone from Line 6 (Digital Igloo?) was saying "look for continued support and updates for the Helix not in terms of months, but years". I'm guessing they will eak out at last a couple more years worth of time from the current Helix now that they just did a big overhaul to unify the Helix platform across various types of hardware.

Not sure about the cabinets to use, but it sounds pretty heavily scooped. Maybe try the 2204 Mod amp, with the mids cut, and that "boost" setting setting to a negative value in a mid to high frequency band. Also, maybe add a para EQ afterwards with another mid cut, with a high Q value, somewhere in the 650-1 KHZ range?

I've noticed the same thing. At first, it seemed like setting the program to "run as an admin" in properties fixed it, but then it started happening again. When I plugged it into a different USB port on my computer, the problem seemed to go away. The one I was using was labeled as "superspeed" USB, so it seems to me that the new 2.8 USB drivers have a bug in them related to certain high-speed USB inputs. Try another USB port if possible.

Was having a similar problem, which was totally messing with trying to create backups. Apparently this used to happen after an older update, and a search showed that people have worked around it by right clicking on the HX Edit shortcut, and setting it to "Run in Admin mode" under the compatibility tab. It seems to have worked for me so far. Give it a shot.

If they had taken that approach during the release window ("make do with what you have"), I wouldn't have gotten the Helix this year, as the selection of models/effects at launch was, well, a bit skimpy for the high price point. I think the idea was that the promise of continual updates would justify the price. At this point, they've added enough that it has more or less justified the cost for me, but it's not wrong to hope for further new additions which could convince others to jump on board for "that model" that they absolutely need. I do think people who ask why all the channels for an amp haven't been added should realize that, per the developers, sometimes each channel has so many variables in interaction that for modeling purposes, it's not just a simple "tweak" of an existing channel to add it. I'm impressed enough with the results compared to prior-generation modeling that I've jumped to a Line 6 product for the first time ever.

Jason Sadites seems to have literally addressed my question directly about the Grammatico in his latest "Dialing In" youtube vid for the Grammatico Nrm and Zendrive, lol. Apparently the exaggerated sag when the drive is pushed is a feature of the amp and not a bug in modeling. Glad to know I'm not going cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs here. Like he does, I'm going to use a drive pedal for gain in front of this model if I'm going for a more than slightly dirty sound, as opposed to cranking the gain. Thanks for another very informative video, Jason. Although he goes for a much more "direct to computer" sound than I do, it speaks volumes that I can still learn a lot from his explanations.

I run my Helix straight into the low input of a late 90s Fender Hot Rod Deville, with the bass and treble controls currently at noon, mids around 9 o'clock or so, presence 9-10 o'clock. The amp's sound by itself is really "flavorless", so 4CM would be worth little to me, but as a platform for modeled amps and effects, it works well in really warming it up, and giving actual physical feedback. I figure the preamp/tone controls work not too differently from how people use the studio mic preamp after an amp model to "warm it up", and the physical tone controls on the amp let me tweak the overall sound on the fly in a pinch. Also, the DeVille doesn't have a good effects loop, so volume control without the preamp is.....well, yeah. Since the Helix volume knob is supposed to be always maxed for unity gain, I don't think using it as a master volume for the power amp will work that great. When I went to buy the Helix, the guys at GC on duty that night seemed to be doing their best not to put any effort into helping me see how it would sound the way I would use it. "Uh, you need to use this powered cabinet we're selling for $1000. So I'm not gonna hook this unit into a tube amp like you want, cuz uh, I don't want to take the time, and it'll suck anyway. Maybe you should just get an HX FX." I bought it in SPITE of their attempts to sabotage the sale. When I played it through the powered cab, it sounded so.....lifeless and dull. Of course, presets always kinda suck, so maybe that had something to do with it.

One of the amps not covered by the Helix that my RP1000 has is a Laney Supergroup or similar old Laney. I'm using the Park model to substitute at the moment, which works fine w/ a treble booster, but I'm surprised Laney isn't in there yet. I hope they add it. A Sunn Coliseum PA model for the Leslie West sound, a couple Randalls for that Pantera sound (even tho there's plenty of options now that can fill in for that), 1 or 2 Diezel models, a late 70s Marshall Master Volume, maybe even a VHT or Rivera Knucklehead for that mid-90s gainy boutique sound? Oh, and an Engl Savage 120 would be sweet for that mid-late 90s German power metal sound. Oh, maybe also a JMP-1/ADA style voiced pre-amp. A boy can dream, right?

I'm actually not having a lot of luck with the Grammatico models without a pedal. If I set the drive levels lower, I can get an okay clean-ish tone, but once I start turn up the drive, this weird, exaggerated "sag and bloom" effect happens, even with sag set low. Sounds like the input volume dropping at the attack and then swelling up weirdly, like a compressor kicking in. It's also a very "bassy" yet brittle sound. The Fullerton model is supposed to be in the same gene pool as the Grammatico, yet sounds normal with the same guitar. If anyone has suggestions on how to use the drive/tonal controls to normalize the sound, that would be great. The guitar I tried with the Grammatico is an Ibanez RG3120, which does have a bass-heavy bridge pickup, but I have it set a decent amount away from the strings. I haven't tried my Les Paul with it yet, which has less-bass heavy pickups.

That sounds like an interesting new take. Right now I'm focusing on recreating a wide variety of "established" sounds and recreating my old RP1000 patches, but once I go full on "let's see what new and strange things I can come up with", I'll give that a shot!