FW 2.10 Expression Pedal Question

[davidb7170]

Probably user error, but when I change a snapshot, the display above the expression pedal changes from EXP 1 EXP 2 to EXP 1 only and EXP 2 no longer works. I assign my volume control to EXP 2 on all my presets so when I'm tweaking settings with the Helix up off the floor I plug my mission EXP pedal into the EXP 2 jack. So far that is all I use it for, not out gigging. Is there a setting I need to make? So far haven't found one. If I reboot, the display and function is back to normal, until I change a snapshot. Thanks.

 

Dave

 

Quick p.s. when I change presets, it stays only EXP 1, have to reboot to get back to EXP 1 EXP 2.

[Rocco_Crocco]

Yup... me too. I reported it in the Helix Bug Report thread.

[markus506]

Same here. I thought I was losing my mind. lol

[hefonthefjords]

Hey,
I noticed this straight away at band practice tonight, it seems to only happen with presets imported from an older firmware - here's how to fix it.

Select your preset.
Change to any snapshot in the preset to trigger the problem.
Unplug your guitar cable (with your guitar connected - IMPORTANT) from the guitar input and plug it into the EXP2 jack for a second then unplug it.
You should now see "EXP1 EXP2" in the expression scribble strip again.
Click save twice before doing anything else.
Switch to the next snapshot.
Repeat for all the remaining snapshots in the preset.
Finally switch back to the snapshot you want to be loaded by default when you load the preset and hit save twice again.

Your preset will now function normally in the 2.10 firmware.



The reason you have to keep your guitar connected to the cable is that you have to create a short circuit within the EXP2 jack and then remove it so that the Helix thinks it had an expression pedal connected for a second. When it sees that this connection was removed it will default the EXP2 function back to the internal expression pedal, thus solving the problem. This status is now saved with the snapshot which is why you need to repeat the process for each snapshot.

This solution definitely works on the floorboard Helix. I presume it will also work with Helix Rack but I don't have one here to test it on.

[Rocco_Crocco]

^^^

 

How the heck did you figure that out?!?

 

Thanks will try right away.

[hefonthefjords]

I'm a genius for a living.

[HonestOpinion]

Hey,

I noticed this straight away at band practice tonight, it seems to only happen with presets imported from an older firmware - here's how to fix it.

 

Select your preset.

Change to any snapshot in the preset to trigger the problem.

Unplug your guitar cable (with your guitar connected - IMPORTANT) from the guitar input and plug it into the EXP2 jack for a second then unplug it.

You should now see "EXP1 EXP2" in the expression scribble strip again.

Click save twice before doing anything else.

Switch to the next snapshot.

Repeat for all the remaining snapshots in the preset.

Finally switch back to the snapshot you want to be loaded by default when you load the preset and hit save twice again.

 

Your preset will now function normally in the 2.10 firmware.

 

 

 

The reason you have to keep your guitar connected to the cable is that you have to create a short circuit within the EXP2 jack and then remove it so that the Helix thinks it had an expression pedal connected for a second. When it sees that this connection was removed it will default the EXP2 function back to the internal expression pedal, thus solving the problem. This status is now saved with the snapshot which is why you need to repeat the process for each snapshot.

 

This solution definitely works on the floorboard Helix. I presume it will also work with Helix Rack but I don't have one here to test it on.

 

+1 Absolutely awesome troubleshooting and thank you for the workaround! Hopefully this will get fixed in the next update.

[hefonthefjords]

+1 Absolutely awesome troubleshooting and thank you for the workaround! Hopefully this will get fixed in the next update.

Nae bother. Maybe they'll throw me a more difficult one next time! :)

 

This shouldn't be a problem ever again. It only happened this time around because they now save the status of which EXP you have selected per snapshot (meaning you dont have to manually switch back to where you started in the snapshot anymore!!).

[BuckeyeTodd]

I'm a genius for a living.

I'll bet you were the one guy that could program a VCR... :D

[HonestOpinion]

Nae bother. Maybe they'll throw me a more difficult one next time! :)

...

 

Laughing my a$$ off...  :D

[hefonthefjords]

I'll bet you were the one guy that could program a VCR... :D

I was that kid that took the VCR apart to find out how it worked. :lol:

[texasdave]

Brilliant solution.  Has anyone tried saving patches immediately after loading to see if that solves the problem?  That is, load a patch and save while still showing  EXP1 EXP2?

[HonestOpinion]

Brilliant solution.  Has anyone tried saving patches immediately after loading to see if that solves the problem?  That is, load a patch and save while still showing  EXP1 EXP2?

 

Interesting thought and worth investigating, that worked a few firmware versions ago when certain presets were causing Helix and Editor lockups.

[davidb7170]

hefonthefjords - Thanks for the workaround! I used my mission pedal, as I use my JTV's with the VDI. That works too. Don't have to save after each snapshot, it worked with a save when they were all set right. Still a pain, as I have most of my presets with active snapshots. Unadjusted snapshots didn't have the issue.

 

Taking a break right now, but will try just saving the preset to see what happens... Good thought.

 

Thanks folks!

 

Dave

[texasdave]

The other idea that could reasonably fix the problem would be to do a final restart holding FS 10 & 11.  which is supposed to update user presets to current firmware.  I know the reboot is supposed to do that, but IIRC there was a prior update where this solved some problems.

 

I'm not sure I've saved anything in snapshots other than maybe a test file, so I may not be the best crash test dummy.  

[davidb7170]

Quick update -- tried just re-saving a pre-existing preset with snapshots I had reloaded from my 2.01 set lists, that didn't make any difference, had to do the workaround anyway. Well it was a good thought... Worked my way through all my gigging presets in my set list. Next up is my "test bench" set list, where I try out amps & settings. Played a little with Litigator -- cool, it's gots good bones...

 

Dave

[hefonthefjords]

Brilliant solution.  Has anyone tried saving patches immediately after loading to see if that solves the problem?  That is, load a patch and save while still showing  EXP1 EXP2?

Yes, I tried that first. It doesn't work, which is why I wrote a guide on exactly how to fix it completely and properly.

 

The other idea that could reasonably fix the problem would be to do a final restart holding FS 10 & 11.  which is supposed to update user presets to current firmware.  I know the reboot is supposed to do that, but IIRC there was a prior update where this solved some problems.

 

I'm not sure I've saved anything in snapshots other than maybe a test file, so I may not be the best crash test dummy.  

Doesn't work. My instructions above do.

[TLF2007]

I ended up keeping the firmware. TIP: instead of plugging / unplugging your guitar, plug a spare 1/4" in the EXP 2 and create a circuit with a screwdriver across the free tip/sleeve or with a bypass pedal (switch ) that is plugged into one side with a guitar that you engage as you move to the snapshot. ...(To minimize the repetitive "plug/unplug" thing. ) Worked. Went through a lot of the affected patches this way. They are seeming to work as intended...

[texasdave]

 

 

Doesn't work. My instructions above do.

 

 

Confirmed.

[Joepeggio]

Fix doesnt work. It reverts back when changing presets. Reverts back when restarting.

 

Im going back to 2.01

[HonestOpinion]

Not sure how this bug got past beta testing as all it required was switching from one snapshot  to another and using the expression pedal switch to become immediately obvious. This bug is not exactly buried deep in a complex preset or arcane hardware configuration. Not saying this to fault anyone because that is rarely productive. Just means that a more comprehensive test of snapshot and expression pedal behavior needs to be added to the procedures used in the beta testing before every release (assuming this bug did not creep in unexpectedly at the last minute).

[hefonthefjords]

Fix doesnt work. It reverts back when changing presets. Reverts back when restarting.

Im going back to 2.01

Are you on floorboard or rack version?

 

Can you send me a preset to investigate via dropbox or something?

This deffo worked perfectly for me and a lot of others so there has to be something unique about your configuration. Maybe we can identify it.

[HonestOpinion]

Fix doesnt work. It reverts back when changing presets. Reverts back when restarting.

 

Im going back to 2.01

 

I am not experiencing this. The fix does work for me after switching presets or after a reboot. I am on the floor version. Sorry to hear it is not working on your presets or your Helix fido083.

[Rocco_Crocco]

Hef's fix works 100% for me as well.

[Joepeggio]

already back on 2.01.  I guess i can try another update.  Maybe something else went wrong.

[davidb7170]

Mine is good with the fix, rebooted a number of times since last night.

 

It only happens with presets I reloaded from my 2.01 set lists that had snapshots made. Not with any new preset I made. Think this is how it slipped through beta testing...

 

Dave

[HonestOpinion]

Not sure how this bug got past beta testing as all it required was switching from one snapshot  to another and using the expression pedal switch to become immediately obvious. This bug is not exactly buried deep in a complex preset or arcane hardware configuration. Not saying this to fault anyone because that is rarely productive. Just means that a more comprehensive test of snapshot and expression pedal behavior needs to be added to the procedures used in the beta testing before every release (assuming this bug did not creep in unexpectedly at the last minute).

 

 

Mine is good with the fix, rebooted a number of times since last night.

 

It only happens with presets I reloaded from my 2.01 set lists that had snapshots made. Not with any new preset I made. Think this is how it slipped through beta testing...

 

Dave

 

I just noticed the same thing myself, you beat me to the punch. New presets create perfectly without demonstrating this bug. So... I have to amend my earlier comment or risk being a hypocrite. I have stated on the forum before that if new functionality or better sound occasionally require that we dig in and modify old presets I am more than willing. Well, here is a perfect example. We now have major improved functionality on the expression pedal behavior. Would it have been nice if the upgrade had been seamless with old presets? Sure! However, I am perfectly willing to go in and modify my old presets if they released this firmware, perhaps aware of this 'bug'/limitation, but also knowing the benefits the new firmware brought or not wanting to make us wait too long for it.  Of course, if there is a quick fix that will obviate the need for the workaround, please bring it as this one requires a lot of work as it affects every snapshot! Thanks again for the new features Line6, I am more than willing to spend a little time adjusting old presets to get this in return!  :)

[TLF2007]

Confirmed the main fix and the speed process of bridging tip / sleeve of the open end of a cable plugged into Exp 2 to create a loop work as well. Did multiple reboots. Great initial catch.. Thanks again...

[hefonthefjords]

Did a bit of digging into what causes this problem.

 

Seems that individual .hlx presets are stored as plain text scripts.

 

There is an entry for each snapshot designating which pedal is selected which i guess must not have been there before as shown below.

 

"snapshot3" : {

"@ledcolor" : 5,

"@name" : "Lead",

"@pedalstate" : 2,

"@tempo" : 120.0,

 

My guess is that for whatever reason this entry is not added in the import or rebuild process for old presets and Helix doesn't enjoy it when it can't find that entry.

 

Because these files are plain text it would be mega easy to make a standalone translation app to translate .hlx from older firmware to work straight away but it seems that the .hlb and .hls files are compressed so it's not as simple to conform them from older firmwares to the new 2.10 syntax.

 

Anyone know anything about zlib compression and wanna throw me some hints on how to extract and recompress them?

[Joepeggio]

I currently recerted back to 2.01 so i cant test.

Can it be tried to delete the volume block, save, then put it back and resave. I wonder if that would cover all snaps

[TLF2007]

Did a bit of digging into what causes this problem.

 

Seems that individual .hlx presets are stored as plain text scripts.

 

There is an entry for each snapshot designating which pedal is selected which i guess must not have been there before as shown below.

 

"snapshot3" : {

"@ledcolor" : 5,

"@name" : "Lead",

"@pedalstate" : 2,

"@tempo" : 120.0,

 

My guess is that for whatever reason this entry is not added in the import or rebuild process for old presets and Helix doesn't enjoy it when it can't find that entry.

 

Because these files are plain text it would be mega easy to make a standalone translation app to translate .hlx from older firmware to work straight away but it seems that the .hlb and .hls files are compressed so it's not as simple to conform them from older firmwares to the new 2.10 syntax.

 

Anyone know anything about zlib compression and wanna throw me some hints on how to extract and recompress them?

 

Compelling investigation!

[HonestOpinion]

I just noticed the same thing myself, you beat me to the punch. New presets create perfectly without demonstrating this bug. So... I have to amend my earlier comment or risk being a hypocrite. I have stated on the forum before that if new functionality or better sound occasionally require that we dig in and modify old presets I am more than willing. Well, here is a perfect example. We now have major improved functionality on the expression pedal behavior. Would it have been nice if the upgrade had been seamless with old presets? Sure! However, I am perfectly willing to go in and modify my old presets if they released this firmware, perhaps aware of this 'bug'/limitation, but also knowing the benefits the new firmware brought or not wanting to make us wait too long for it.  Of course, if there is a quick fix that will obviate the need for the workaround, please bring it as this one requires a lot of work as it affects every snapshot! Thanks again for the new features Line6, I am more than willing to spend a little time adjusting old presets to get this in return!  :)

 

I should probably keep my mouth shut as this post will probably not endear me with DI or Line6 as well as some of the old faithful here (that ship probably already sailed a while ago anyway ;) ) but I feel I need to make a comment. I admit to feeling a little conflicted on this issue. As I expressed in my earlier comment I actually am ok with having to occasionally do some work to take advantage of a new update, comes with the territory. What I don't understand here is the baffling silence from DI and the rest of the Line6 crew regarding this fairly substantial issue in the new update with upgrading old presets. After a year in the open field there are many Helix users with quite a few presets from their old firmware, these include not only ones they have spent hundreds of hours crafting but presets they have purchased as well. This bug could theoretically cause people to have to update thousands of snapshots (number of presets multiplied by up to 8 snapshots). Obviously most people will not have filled all their User preset slots or modified all their Factory presets but the potential is there.

 

Given the monumental amount of work that would be required by many users that this conversion issue from the old presets to the new firmware could entail, would it not behoove Line6 to have the courtesy to chime in here and let us know what they are planning? Forgive me if I have missed it but I have seen no official comment regarding this. It seems like it would be common decency to either let us know a fix is coming in short order or to inform us that this was the cost of improving the expression pedal behavior so we can get moving on a conversion plan of our own. Usually I understand why Line6 does not share its plans ahead of time and you will rarely to never see me on the boards complaining about 'transparency' but this is ridiculous. Would someone from Line6 please make a statement regarding their plans or lack thereof for fixing this. This appears to me to go beyond the usual corporate reticence and borders on rude, or at least an extremely poor decision regarding communication with the user base. Maybe I just don't understand the reason for staying mum on this issue, would not be the first time, but this issue appears to require Line6 let us in on whether they are planning (or not) to fix it, and if so, how soon. Please let us know what you guys are planning on this one. Thank you!

[phil_m]

I don't believe you have to go and do the fix for every individual snapshot - just for the preset itself. Line 6 has acknowledged it as a bug and posted a workaround in the Knowledge Base for now. I suspect a patch will be issued shortly, but I doubt it will be before the holiday.

 

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/helix/pre-210-snapshot-presets-can-eliminate-exp-2-f-r844

[HonestOpinion]

I don't believe you have to go and do the fix for every individual snapshot - just for the preset itself. Line 6 has acknowledged it as a bug and posted a workaround in the Knowledge Base for now. I suspect a patch will be issued shortly, but I doubt it will be before the holiday.

 

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/helix/pre-210-snapshot-presets-can-eliminate-exp-2-f-r844

 

Thanks very much for the response Phil! You are the man!   :)  That information is huge and I would not have expected a fix before the holiday. Just good to know it is coming shortly, not everyone may be aware of it yet but I think I just heard a huge collective sigh of relief. Btw, if you know a way in the meantime of executing the workaround without having to do it for each snapshot, please let us know. I have not been able to get it to work without doing a save in between each snapshot fix.

[HonestOpinion]

I ended up keeping the firmware. TIP: instead of plugging / unplugging your guitar, plug a spare 1/4" in the EXP 2 and create a circuit with a screwdriver across the free tip/sleeve or with a bypass pedal (switch ) that is plugged into one side with a guitar that you engage as you move to the snapshot. ...(To minimize the repetitive "plug/unplug" thing. ) Worked. Went through a lot of the affected patches this way. They are seeming to work as intended...

 

 

Line 6 has acknowledged it as a bug and posted a workaround in the Knowledge Base for now. I suspect a patch will be issued shortly, but I doubt it will be before the holiday.

 

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/helix/pre-210-snapshot-presets-can-eliminate-exp-2-f-r844

 

It looks like there may be a fix for this prior preset conversion issue in short order (thanks so much for that info phil_m). In the meantime, if anyone has to play a show and is bent on fixing this themselves I highly recommend using the method above suggested by TLF2007 using a screwdriver to short the cable. I cannot think that it is good to be inserting and pulling a cable out of your EXP 2 jack hundreds of times unnecessarily. I know these jacks are built to last but why push your luck?  ;)

[davidb7170]

At least with mine, I found I could do the plug in/out for each snapshot, THEN save the preset and it was good. Was a bit of a pain, but I see it as a one time deal. All new presets have not had an issue with it. I copied one I fixed, and the copy was fine. I'll work through my "test bench" set list, then save my fixed set lists in my 2.10 backup - done.

 

Dave

[HonestOpinion]

I don't believe you have to go and do the fix for every individual snapshot - just for the preset itself. 

 

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/helix/pre-210-snapshot-presets-can-eliminate-exp-2-f-r844

 

 

At least with mine, I found I could do the plug in/out for each snapshot, THEN save the preset and it was good. Was a bit of a pain, but I see it as a one time deal. All new presets have not had an issue with it. I copied one I fixed, and the copy was fine. I'll work through my "test bench" set list, then save my fixed set lists in my 2.10 backup - done.

 

Dave

 

I just figured out what is required to eliminate the save in between each snapshot to correct this problem. You must have the parameter 'Snapshot Edits' set to 'Recall' under Global Settings > Preferences. This eliminates the need to save in between each snapshot and cuts the saves down to one per preset (versus a potential of 8 saves, 1 per snapshot, if you have the 'Snapshot Edits' parameter set to 'Discard). You still have to switch to and short the plug for every snapshot you intend to use however. If you have blank snapshots you don't need to fix them as long as you don't stomp on them.

[HonestOpinion]

At least with mine, I found I could do the plug in/out for each snapshot, THEN save the preset and it was good. Was a bit of a pain, but I see it as a one time deal. All new presets have not had an issue with it. I copied one I fixed, and the copy was fine. I'll work through my "test bench" set list, then save my fixed set lists in my 2.10 backup - done.

 

Dave

 

Thanks for everything hefonthefjords and you have contributed on this conversion issue. This workaround is probably huge for people with relatively few old presets or for someone who wants to use the new firmware with snapshots before the fix comes out. For people with a lot of presets though that conversion fix in an updated firmware release is going to be most welcome!  :)

[phil_m]

I just figured out what is required to eliminate the save in between each snapshot to correct this problem. You must have the parameter 'Snapshot Edits' set to 'Recall' under Global Settings > Preferences. This cuts down the saves in between each snapshot from a possible 8 (snapshots) to 1. You still have to switch to and short the plug for every snapshot however.

Yeah, I can confirm this now... I went and tried it, and I did have to select each preset. plug the cable in, pull it out, and then after I did it for each one, re-save the preset. A pain in the butt, yes, but at least there's a workaround for now.

[davidb7170]

I probably do have it set that way in the global settings. You can set it that way temporarily, then back after you're done with them.

 

Dave