Snapshots- Ideascale

[jbuhajla]

Anyone recall seeing in Ideascale the idea of having two different snapshots groups within a preset? The idea is having all of my amp parameters and drive pedal parameters being controlled by one snapshot group, then all of my time based effects controlled by a separate snapshots group. This would allow having individual control over core tone and individual control over time based stuff. It would greatly increase the flexibility of the 8 snapshots you can have in a preset. 4 can be controlling from snapshot group A, and the other 4 snaps controlling from snapshot group B. They could have different colored brackets in the parameters in each block. 

[silverhead]

Not sure I understand. Can you not achieve the same result now by arranging for this grouping in your snapshot design? If you use, say, Snapshots 1 through 4 for your different amp/drive settings (leaving the time-based FX constant) and Snapshots 5 through 8 for your different time- based FX (leaving the amp/drive settings constant) does that not achieve the result you want?

 

If not, pleasant provide further details of what you want to achieve that this arrangement doesn't support. Maybe I'm just not getting your idea.

[captainnemo70]

Not sure I understand. Can you not achieve the same result now by arranging for this grouping in your snapshot design? If you use, say, Snapshots 1 through 4 for your different amp/drive settings (leaving the time-based FX constant) and Snapshots 5 through 8 for your different time- based FX (leaving the amp/drive settings constant) does that not achieve the result you want?

 

If not, pleasant provide further details of what you want to achieve that this arrangement doesn't support. Maybe I'm just not getting your idea.

 

 

what he said ^^^^^ 

(confused face)

[jbuhajla]

So when you are currently creating snaps, ALL parameters that you put in brackets are saved into a single snapshot. Currently if you want clean dry, you have to create a snap with clean amp settings, no OD pedals, and all your time based stuff off. Then if you want clean with a little delay, you keep the same amp/drive parameters, but put in some delay and save another snapshot, then if you want clean and really wet, you create a third, etc... So you get 8 different "sounds" with the 8 snaps. 

 

If you were have two different sets of parameters you can save as snaps, for example you can have the top 4 snaps controlling amp parameters and drive pedals. You can create clean, grit, crunch, and heavy core tones. Then on a separate set of snapshot parameters, you can have the bottom 4 snaps  called dry, moist, wet, and ambient. The two banks of 4 snapshots are controlling totally different parameters. This would allow you to chose clean from the top, and then any of the 4 from the bottom (so you are actually running two snapshots at once). Or you can choose clean from the top and ambient from the bottom. Or you can choose crunch from the top, and moist from the bottom. This give you a total of 16 different "sounds" that you can achieve with 8 snapshot foot switches. 

 

I hope this makes sense. This takes the hugely flexible functionality of snapshots and multiplies it times two, but you are still limited by 8 foot switches. Or maybe they can put in a 10 snapshot mode just like the 10 stomps option. 

[silverhead]

Ok - I get what you mean, but I think what you're asking for would involve the actual implementation of 16 rather than 8 snapshots. I don't think it's a simple matter of grouping snapshots in some virtual manner. The current implementation does not support two simultaneous snapshots; they are mutually exclusive.

 

But no harm in submitting to Ideascale......

[jbuhajla]

It would definitely be a firmware upgrade creating two different snapshots subgroups within the code. A big bang for the buck getting up to 16 combinations out of 8 foot switches. I would use it in every preset I create. 

 

Posted on Ideascale:

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Snapshots-two-banks-of-parameters-to-be-controlled-independently/889285-23508?submitted=1

[silverhead]

A firmware upgrade might be able to do this but only, I think, by reducing the overall number of parameters that could be controlled by snapshots. The primary constraint would be memory for the many different parameter values. Right now the parameter limit is 64. It would probably have to go down significantly; at least half I would think and probably more for other implementation overhead.

[jbuhajla]

A firmware upgrade might be able to do this but only, I think, by reducing the overall number of parameters that could be controlled by snapshots. The primary constraint would be memory for the many different parameter values. Right now the parameter limit is 64. It would probably have to go down significantly; at least half I would think and probably more for other implementation overhead.

You are probably correct, but an easy trade off. I'd bet not many people are controlling 64 parameters with snaps currently anyway. I think the most I have ever implemented within snaps is probably a dozen or so, and that seemed to be a LOT for my applications. 

[hideout]

Will this one do it for you?

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Two-Phase-Snapshot-Footswitches-Mode/857489-23508

 

Or this one?

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/A-Zero-Snapshot/837506-23508

[jbuhajla]

Those are similar in desired affect, but different implementation. I would think 2 separate sets of snapshot parameter sets would be fairly simple to implement (going purely off of speculation of code and data structure within the Helix). 

[hideout]

If I understand you correctly, I think my idea gives you pretty much what you're asking for.  Having each footswitch be able to toggle between two sets of independent settings will pretty much give you 16 snaps from 8 footswitches. Each Snapshot assigned to either phase of a footswitch can be assigned to radically different parameters from the other.  In my idea, each foot switch accesses two wholly independent Snapshots. You can arrange the Snaps in any way you want to do what ever you need in any manner that you want.

[vmoncebaiz]

Any thoughts on letting snapshots control the amp and drive parameters as well as on/off for fx,  Then tie your time based FX and what ever to an expression pedal ( I like using external pedal 3 for this).  You can then just blend up and down how much ambiance you want.  I usually have the mix only for delays and reverbs on the expression pedal.  The feedback, decay and other parameters I might want to change are still on the snapshot.

 

I like the idea you brought up, with 2 groups of snaps though.  And the double snapshot/ toggle snapshots that hideout linked are worth the up vote too.

[phil_m]

I understand what this post is talking about, but to me, it kind of becomes something conceptually different than a snapshot once you start introducing more layers like this. I think the idea of snapshot is powerful because it's relatively simply to grasp on a conceptual level - most people can grasp the idea of freezing the bypass states and parameters of blocks and saving that data as a single collection of data. I think once you start adding to that, the complexity will start to increase quite a lot. I just see it leading to a lot of potential confusion down the road... I don't mean to be a downer (well, perhaps I do, I'm an engineer, so I always say crushing dreams is a big part of my job :D ...), but I guess I think there are a lot of ideas like this. They make perfect sense, and could be implemented, but they also might be a support nightmare.

 

But, that's just my opinion... Vote it up if you like the idea!

[RRMark]

Is this not pretty much achievable in 4 snapshots and 4 stomps mode? Snapshots for core tone and stomps for time based FX

[MusicLaw]

Joe, did you inadvertantly down vote your own Idea submission? I see the current tally as minus 1.

[jbuhajla]

Is this not pretty much achievable in 4 snapshots and 4 stomps mode? Snapshots for core tone and stomps for time based FX

Kind of, but you can only turn on/off with the 4 stomps for the most part.

[jbuhajla]

Joe, did you inadvertantly down vote your own Idea submission? I see the current tally as minus 1.

Wasn't me. I just upvoted it back to zero.

[hideout]

Joe, did you inadvertantly down vote your own Idea submission? I see the current tally as minus 1.

I still think the whole downvoting thing is BS and should go away. If you don't like an idea, don't vote for it. Downvoting just seems belligerent.

[Fazer1k143]

I still think the whole downvoting thing is BS and should go away. If you don't like an idea, don't vote for it. Downvoting just seems belligerent.

I don't see it that way. Implementing certain ideas could make Helix less usable for some so being able to vote against those ideas is valuable.

[Ka5par]

Maybe if there would be a way to specify the blocks affected for each snapshot?
Checkmarking all blocks that you want to control and leaving others blank.

[tonymuka]

I had a similar idea when I was playing with helix the other day. I found myself wanting an independent global Rev/delay path that was independent of multi amp/dirt pedal snapshots. You can sort of work it by assigning several verb/delay mix and feedback params to a stomp switch, but at that point since they're automated they're also recalled with snapshots. If snapshots could ignore them or something. Anyway, it gets my upvote.

[jbuhajla]

I had a similar idea when I was playing with helix the other day. I found myself wanting an independent global Rev/delay path that was independent of multi amp/dirt pedal snapshots. You can sort of work it by assigning several verb/delay mix and feedback params to a stomp switch, but at that point since they're automated they're also recalled with snapshots. If snapshots could ignore them or something. Anyway, it gets my upvote.

Yeah, that's what I am doing now, but it would be so much more elegant to use a separate set of snapshots parameters for just the time based stuff. I find myself having to use more delay and reverb blocks that way though because you can just turn things on/off with stomps. 

[MusicLaw]

Upvoted.