rd2rk Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, jester700 said: I just noticed a 2.4GHz wireless guitar transmitter/receiver setup on the market. This one's stereo and has 3.5mm stereo plugs, plus the plugs fold up. This might be a decent bet for the "cheapo home grown IEM" thing. I might try one. 12ms latency. Not pro gear, for sure - cheap & cheerful. There are a few rebadges of it. This one's $40 US, and nobody's complained that it doesn't play with active pickups yet: https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Rechargeable/dp/B08FDQ2VHW You do know that the subject of this thread is headphones, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester700 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 10 hours ago, rd2rk said: You do know that the subject of this thread is headphones, right? Sorry; I forgot to connect the dots for folks who can't read my mind ;-) If you already have wired phones/buds and aren't looking specifically for headphones as much as for a low latency wireless monitoring solution, there was this idea of using a cheap guitar transmitter rig in this way to fix the latency problem. I saw the new unit that runs in stereo and has 3.5mm plugs and thought that would be even easier & better for this. My comment about active pickups was I figured they more closely matched the output of line level sources you'd feed into this thing when using as a wireless "In Ear Monitor" device. I'll post when I get them. In a new thread. ;-) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arararasha Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/9/2020 at 5:34 AM, jester700 said: I just noticed a 2.4GHz wireless guitar transmitter/receiver setup on the market. This one's stereo and has 3.5mm stereo plugs, plus the plugs fold up. This might be a decent bet for the "cheapo home grown IEM" thing. I might try one. 12ms latency. Not pro gear, for sure - cheap & cheerful. There are a few rebadges of it. This one's $40 US, and nobody's complained that it doesn't play with active pickups yet: https://www.amazon.com/LEKATO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Rechargeable/dp/B08FDQ2VHW 12ms - to much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arararasha Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 17 hours ago, jester700 said: Sorry; I forgot to connect the dots for folks who can't read my mind ;-) If you already have wired phones/buds and aren't looking specifically for headphones as much as for a low latency wireless monitoring solution, there was this idea of using a cheap guitar transmitter rig in this way to fix the latency problem. I saw the new unit that runs in stereo and has 3.5mm plugs and thought that would be even easier & better for this. My comment about active pickups was I figured they more closely matched the output of line level sources you'd feed into this thing when using as a wireless "In Ear Monitor" device. I'll post when I get them. In a new thread. ;-) Gooooood!!!!!! So this is only way for budget home playing guitar and IEM monitoring? Should try it right now! But why he connect his IEM into notebook? Does it output audio through the wasapi driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Arararasha said: 12ms - to much... It would be nice to get 10ms or less but if they work tolerably well as a wireless guitar transmitter then they may be acceptable used essentially in the opposite direction to transmit to the headphones. The OP said he was only looking for a practice option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arararasha Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said: It would be nice to get 10ms or less but if they work tolerably well as a wireless guitar transmitter then they may be acceptable used essentially in the opposite direction to transmit to the headphones. The OP said he was only looking for a practice option. This one have only 5 ms latency To practice the guitar you need a minimum latency, preferably in a total amount (including input, conversion, processing, conversion and output) of up to 10-12 ms, in order to spoil your sense of rhythm.I will give an example for myself, I played through Asio4All for about 1.5 years (measuring the latency, it took 30ms), I decided to switch to another driver where the delay was at least 1-5 ms, I noticed that I was constantly rushing ahead of the rhythm, even the drummer on rehearsals, I am constantly told "Where are you flying ahead of me?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeycronin Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 HI, I've used this solution for preforming for very long time. https://carvinaudio.com/collections/in-ear-monitors/products/em900 . Low price $369.00 on sale. These work awesome and can be used for a ton of different needs. They are RF so latency is not an issues. The ear buds are not bad. I use Shure SE535 (they cost more than the wireless). But that will work and well. EM900 / EM901 SPECIFICATIONS » Operating RF Frequency: 518-542MHz » Frequency Response : 30Hz-15kHz » RF Output Power : 10mW » Nominal Frequency Deviation : ±40KHz » S/N ratio : 80dB (A weighted) » Image frequency rejection : 80dB » Channel separation : 35dB » Audio Input Impedance : 20kΩ » Input level switch : 0dB / -10dB » AC Mains input : 100V-240V (50-60Hz) » Receiver power : 2AA batteries » Battery life : 8 hours » Net Weight : Base 3.2lbs Receiver .45lbs » Dimensions : Base (EM900) 8.35”W x 9”D x 1.75”H » Dimensions : Receiver (EM901) 4.5”H x 2.75”W x 1”D » Fuse : 0.5A 250V 19.5mm x 5.2mm dia EM902 EAR BUD SPECIFICATIONS » Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz » Type : Dynamic » Impedance : 16 ohms » Sensitivity @ 1kHz : 114dB/mW » Distortion : less than 0.3% » Cord length : 58” Inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeycronin Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I just used my Koss Studio (FLAT and fairly good stats) head phone in my Helix Floor last night for the 1st time. Has anyone else experienced the sound being very harsh with ear cans? I know studio head phones have zero coloration (not as ear friendly) but I was a bit surprised by the how edgy thing sounded. The stereo effects were very lush but the guitar was not so nice. Just was wonder what other thought or experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, joeycronin said: I just used my Koss Studio (FLAT and fairly good stats) head phone in my Helix Floor last night for the 1st time. Has anyone else experienced the sound being very harsh with ear cans? I know studio head phones have zero coloration (not as ear friendly) but I was a bit surprised by the how edgy thing sounded. The stereo effects were very lush but the guitar was not so nice. Just was wonder what other thought or experienced. No offense, but "Koss" may be your problem. Not surprised they might sound harsh. The headphone amp in Helix might be a little much for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeycronin Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 These are the Pro4s, not cheep Koss can. It isn't an overdirve issue from the headphone pre amp as far as I can tell. I've used them may times for mixing with no issues. But to the question what is the experience with others and headphone. I should try my wireless setup as a discribed in the previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 12 hours ago, joeycronin said: These are the Pro4s, not cheep Koss can. It isn't an overdirve issue from the headphone pre amp as far as I can tell. I've used them may times for mixing with no issues. But to the question what is the experience with others and headphone. I should try my wireless setup as a discribed in the previous post. Sorry, still not a huge fan. I know that some broadcast folks use them, but there's a reason you never see them on the shelf in a Music store. I think they probably have a harshness inherent in them. I do find that my open back DT990s (Beyer) sound fantastic with Helix, and any closed back headphones are only good for when I have to have no bleed because I'm tracking vocals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeycronin Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 No biggie, Guess I'm just loyal to them because they treated me well for over 40 years. They have always back their products on life time coverage and I've used it a few times. I'm going to try the SE535 later this week. They are truly a higher end product and should be for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, joeycronin said: No biggie, Guess I'm just loyal to them because they treated me well for over 40 years. They have always back their products on life time coverage and I've used it a few times. I'm going to try the SE535 later this week. They are truly a higher end product and should be for the price. VERY different kind of product, but very excellent. And, when you are tweaking for live use, I find that IEM-style headphones work best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeycronin Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 I agree, The IEM is what I use live and festivals, no amps direct to the mixer. I go dual feed and not stereo. One feed the house the second feed my stuff. Has worked great for years. Low volume and I get it to where I like it. walk on stage drop the pedal board. XLR in, Mic in, give them the receiver Done. 5 mins. and fast off stage in reverse. Bar / Clubs longer and been using two of the bose L2 with subs and Tone matches. They have been great for what we do. 5 to 6 people with Roland td20 drum set. Seems to work well for just about anything we do. (we don't do any heavy metal. lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacemaker1000 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Resurrecting this thread after some research , I see someone is using them, what about the Sony RF 995, 985 and 400 (all the same) definitely will work with only 1-2ms, only question is quality? currently use ATH M40X so expectations are high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlic Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 10/10/2020 at 8:04 AM, Arararasha said: 12ms - to much... You know that standing 4 meters from your amp on stage would be the same latency? It would be good practice for live shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 7 hours ago, Pacemaker1000 said: definitely will work with only 1-2ms, only question is quality? I was unable to find any data to support this claim. Please provide a link to those specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arararasha Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 11 hours ago, karlic said: You know that standing 4 meters from your amp on stage would be the same latency? It would be good practice for live shows. Yes I know. Thats why all musicial doing live perfomance with IEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacemaker1000 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 To answer my own question on the Sony rf895... latency not an issue but horrible whine sound when plucking strings. back they go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurvfot Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 11:42 PM, Pacemaker1000 said: To answer my own question on the Sony rf895... latency not an issue but horrible whine sound when plucking strings. back they go! I also have them and can hear it as well.. Did you find any who doesn't have that hissing sound? Or is it something you have to live with when playing on RF headphones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotis Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 This may sound dumb, but I was wondering if some of the higher end gaming headsets out there like the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless or the Astro A50 could be used as wireless headphones for guitar or any other kind of music practice. If I were to connect the headphones output of something like a focusrite scarlet or a Helix to the auxiliary input of the headphones' base station, will they be similar to the the Sennheiser in terms of latency? If these work for gaming with analog audio they probably should work for music practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester700 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Chronotis said: This may sound dumb, but I was wondering if some of the higher end gaming headsets out there like the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless or the Astro A50 could be used as wireless headphones for guitar or any other kind of music practice. There are a few in the <15ms range, including the Arctis Pro: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/non-bluetooth-wireless#comparison_4121 But many don't accept an analog input at the base station. In fact, I think the Arctis Pro is the only one they list that does both. This site tested the A50 at 80ms latency - too high for this use. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotis Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 On 5/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, jester700 said: There are a few in the <15ms range, including the Arctis Pro: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/non-bluetooth-wireless#comparison_4121 But many don't accept an analog input at the base station. In fact, I think the Arctis Pro is the only one they list that does both. This site tested the A50 at 80ms latency - too high for this use. Thanks for the link and the info about the analog input connectivity. In the past I had used a Philips SHD8900 and I did not feel too much latency compared to wired headphones. Doing a bit of research on them now I found out that they were part of Philips' digital wireless headphones for TV watching with high resolution home cinema sound audio, 2.4GHz RF transmitter and wired connection on the charging dock. They included a few different models in the series like SHD8600, SHD8700, SHD8850, SHD9000, SHD9100 and SHD9200 the latter two having the same form factor and design as the Sennheiser RS 185/195. I have not been able to find latency figures for those. Those headphones have almost disintegrated now but I have managed to make at at least temporarily usable and I am wondering how I can go about testing the latency for myself and I could use some guidance on that. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester700 Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Chronotis said: In the past I had used a Philips SHD8900 and I did not feel too much latency compared to wired headphones. Doing a bit of research on them now I found out that they were part of Philips' digital wireless headphones for TV watching with high resolution home cinema sound audio, 2.4GHz RF transmitter and wired connection on the charging dock. They included a few different models in the series like SHD8600, SHD8700, SHD8850, SHD9000, SHD9100 and SHD9200 the latter two having the same form factor and design as the Sennheiser RS 185/195. I have not been able to find latency figures for those. Those headphones have almost disintegrated now but I have managed to make at at least temporarily usable and I am wondering how I can go about testing the latency for myself and I could use some guidance on that. That site mostly tested gaming headphones (with microphones and PC/console connectivity beyond just analog inputs). There may be other suitable wireless models out there for home theater, but the comparisons I've seen usually don't emphasize (or even mention) low latency. A 50ms delay is typically seen as "great", which would be bad for our use. This makes sense; you can get away with more latency for movies (or adjust in software). Games are more demanding, and playing guitar more demanding yet. Testing headphone latency can be a challenge, depending on the gear you have. A stereo recorder or interface would work. Split an incoming signal at the input of the headphone's base station. Feed one of those to one recording channel. Put an analog mic on an earpiece and feed that to the other channel. Record a signal with some kind of sharp impulse - a test signal or percussion sound. In your DAW of choice, measure the time difference between the two channels. Make sense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotis Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 18 hours ago, jester700 said: That site mostly tested gaming headphones (with microphones and PC/console connectivity beyond just analog inputs). There may be other suitable wireless models out there for home theater, but the comparisons I've seen usually don't emphasize (or even mention) low latency. A 50ms delay is typically seen as "great", which would be bad for our use. This makes sense; you can get away with more latency for movies (or adjust in software). Games are more demanding, and playing guitar more demanding yet. Testing headphone latency can be a challenge, depending on the gear you have. A stereo recorder or interface would work. Split an incoming signal at the input of the headphone's base station. Feed one of those to one recording channel. Put an analog mic on an earpiece and feed that to the other channel. Record a signal with some kind of sharp impulse - a test signal or percussion sound. In your DAW of choice, measure the time difference between the two channels. Make sense? I guess manufacturers will not be producing many more wireless headphones with analog input for home theater systems since Bluetooth is the norm and can use the required adjustments in software. Gaming headsets seems to be the road ahead... I do not have a stereo recording setup yet but I am working on it. Thanks so much for the detailed explanation for latency measurement. At the moment I am using a Yamaha THR10C as an interface and I use a 4-way headphones amp to sent the output to a couple headphones with different impedances and to desktop speakers. So I tried another experiment, First, I made a completely dry patch, then sent one output into the Philips SHD8900 charging station and another output to the speakers keeping the volume level on both in such a way that I could hear them simultaneously. And I can not hear a discernable lag in the headphones. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeppsea Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 On 6/12/2020 at 6:56 PM, mgeorge_68 said: Wireless Guitar Practicing: My "Home" rig uses the Line 6 G30 and Sony WH-L600. This is the least expensive pro solution out there. G30 is what it is, you can find the reviews on that in other places, perfect for home use. The Sony WH-L600 are awesome. Turn off the Theatre mode, Digital 2.4GHz Transmission, Less Than 1ms Latency. "Closed Back" headphone design so only you can hear them. No Receiver Pack Required, built into the headphone. Great Dynamic Range with very little compression. Wide Frequency Response for "Play Along" applications. This is a single channel IEM Solution for under $300, that competes with $1K IEM systems. The only down side is that Line 6 Didn't make it. I've tried so many other headphones out there. All of the Sennheiser RF Solutions (RS175/185) and yes there is an annoying 30ms of Latency, not acceptable for IEM. The low end RF TV monitors all drop out or Compress the Cr@p out of your tone. I have tried various Bluetooth 5 solutions with Aptx LL without success, I confirm instead that these Sony WH L600 headphones are fine, the audio output from the mixer is more than good, no interruptions, pops, clicks etc., little hiss and background noise (very tolerable) and a minimal latency that I personally estimate between 5ms and maximum 25ms, which are absolutely not noticeable when playing. There is no radio interference of any kind although my house (building) is full of wireless of all kinds and there is no interference with the 5.8 gh wireless guitar (Ammoon AM 5Ghz) and not even with the Nux B5RC at 2 , 4 Ghz (the latter two are excellent among other things to get rid of the guitar cable, I have tried others but some had an increase in noise when playing). While waiting for someone to produce certified very low latency headphones for guitar (no internal amp like Waza Air) this is an excellent system, I recommend it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmod Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Hello everyone, I also confirm that Sony WH L600 headphone is good for playing a guitar. There is no noticeable delay, no interruptions, clicks, built-in receiver, good sound and 250-300$ price make this device perfect for home use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertTrepanier Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I”m using a Helix LT into a late 2012 Mac mini. As a hobbyist, I normally run the Helix into my amp using the 4cm but I sometimes need to use headphones in the house, pain in the lollipop re the cable. I bought a Razer Barracuda X, 2.4ghz w which uses a dongle, very small, into the Mac’s USB A. I got a uGreen USB A to USB C adapter and it connect no problem. I use Rogue Amoeba’s Soundsource to switch inputs and outputs, very nice. To hear myself, I use Garage Band with a simple audio setup. You can also use Transcribe or other to play tracks. Make sure your Helix patch outputs to multi or USB AND SELECT THE helix for input and the Razers for output and you’re good to go! I paid $125 CAD on Amazon for the headphones and $15 for the adapter. Razers are really nice. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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