Hx Stomp Preset Switching: Delay

[akalchschmid]

Hi all,

 

I just setup all my presets on my new Hx Stomp, and it sounds great!

However, when rehearsing, I noticed that there's quite a delay when switching presets. Is that normal? For me that would be a real show-stopper, we have quite a lot of songs where I need a clean sound for the intro, and then a heavy distortion from one moment to the other...

 

[foxmeister]

For any given song, you need to have all the blocks you require in a single preset, as preset switching does introduce a noticeable delay that you probably can't get away with mid-song.

 

You can then use snapshots to adjust those blocks for different parameters,  so you might have a clean snapshot, a crunch snapshot, and a dirty snapshot.

 

Since HX Stomp only allows 6 blocks, this does mean you are rather limited compared to He;ix LT/Floor/Rack/Native (where you could switch amp for more dirt), but if you use the right amp model you should be able to get by.

 

 

[akalchschmid]

Ah, okay... Thanks for the quick reply!

Okay, all snapshots for one song in one preset. Hm. I'll try this...

 

And there won't be any delay when switching presets?

[cruisinon2]

11 minutes ago, akalchschmid said:

And there won't be any delay when switching presets?

 

When switching between snapshots, no.... because whatever changes you've made, they all exist within the same patch. A snapshot is the "current state" of one particular preset. But there will always be an audible gap when switching between different patches/presets... that can't be helped. 

[akalchschmid]

Yes, I meant snapshots. Thanks!

[gunpointmetal]

I think this is an oversight as far as the HX Stomp goes. They should have locked it down even more (old-school Boss style, one block for amps, one block for drive, one block for mod, one block for delay, one block for reverb) so they could reserve some DSP for seamless patch changes and spillover. I was looking at the HX Stomp for a backup rig, but between not being able to load a patch enough to actually use snapshots through a whole song and the patch lag, it really didn't seem worth the $$. I feel like its really only good as an addition to a fully-loaded rig where it can be switched in and out like any other FX pedal, and not a full-on "mini-rig" that works well standalone (unless you're a one amp/one sound guy with minimal FX needs) for live use. 

[moehuh]

Does anyone know if they are working on this and if it's even possible to have a spill-over?

Having to work with 6 blocks and 3 snapshots per preset is extremely limiting, while a smooth preset change would offer near endless possibilities (escpecially with a MIDI controller). Without this, I feel like the Stomp will never live up to its large potential...

[Peter]

No it's not possible I think. When you switch the preset, the Helix needs a little moment to clear the memory and load the new effect blocks. This cannot be fixed by an update.

...if you need more blocks and snapshots, you have to buy the floor/rack/LT  ;)

[moehuh]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

No it's not possible I think. When you switch the preset, the Helix needs a little moment to clear the memory and load the new effect blocks. This cannot be fixed by an update.

...if you need more blocks and snapshots, you have to buy the floor/rack/LT  ;)

 

I think the number of blocks and snapshots work well for the bigger units. Couple of friends have the floor and I use Native for recording.

 

The Stomp has a unique role, because the bigger units are not really feasible for a normal sized pedalboard. There is simply no way I could upgrade as there is no room for a bigger unit on my board and I'm not interested in replacing my pedalboard completely.

Plus I don't need more sounds simultaneously, I just need to be able to make use of the preset functionality.

 

The Stomp could become a no-brainer-pedal for most bigger pedalboards and really threaten all the H9 and Strymon pedals. It just lacks some "pedalboard friendliness" compared to them (e.g. power connector)

[Kilrahi]

3 hours ago, moehuh said:

Does anyone know if they are working on this and if it's even possible to have a spill-over?

Having to work with 6 blocks and 3 snapshots per preset is extremely limiting, while a smooth preset change would offer near endless possibilities (escpecially with a MIDI controller). Without this, I feel like the Stomp will never live up to its large potential...

 

Extremely limiting compared to what? You revealed you use a regular pedalboard, what do your other pedals do that it can't?

[codamedia]

Going all the way back to the BOSS ME-5 and ME-10 and another dozen or so different multi effects over the years.... I have always encountered a lag when changing presets and it has never been an issue for me. I've seen people suggest a BOSS is instant... since when? A colleague of mine has a GT 100, it's not instant! I've seen people say Zooms are instant... really? I own a G3 (and have owned a G5), it is NOT instant, and some changes are slower than others.

 

How long is the lag in the HX Series? 200ms, 300ms? Planning your snapshots vs presets should not be that difficult to work around this. Need instant change.... work it into a snap. Have a half second or more to make the change.... you can do that with a preset. 

 

Disclaimer.... I use an LT & I have not walked a mile with the Stomp to witness it's limitations first hand :)

I did own an HX Effects for a while and had no problems working around any lag with that. 

[moehuh]

2 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Extremely limiting compared to what? You revealed you use a regular pedalboard, what do your other pedals do that it can't?

 

I mainly use the Stomp as a dual amp setup with 2 amp models and separate IRs. That's 4 out of 6 blocks always on (or turned off when using real amps). The 2 remaining blocks would actually be sufficient if I could swap presets during a song.

Another interesting usage would be two or three different amp models for your clean, rhythm and lead sound (think of Eric Johnson). Currently you cannot use that potential (unless you have multiple units).

 

It's less about what the Stomp / Helix cannot do, it's more about sounds and pedals I love and I'm not interested in replacing (e.g. the POG has really good tracking with chords, fuzz pedals are always a bit different and if you like one just keep it, a real photocell vibe is hard to copy, Chase Bliss builds crazy analog stuff, Strymon has exceptional delay and reverb units, etc.). I think there are many guitarists out there, who feel the same way and are not willing to "give up" their favorite pedals for a big floor unit. The Stomp offers a great entry point into the digital simulation world.

 

I grew tired of carrying around heavy amps and the Stomp offers a great solution for that, but it could do so much more. I wouldn't mind spending more $ on a double DSP unit with perfect spill-over!

[Kilrahi]

13 minutes ago, moehuh said:

 

I mainly use the Stomp as a dual amp setup with 2 amp models and separate IRs. That's 4 out of 6 blocks always on (or turned off when using real amps). The 2 remaining blocks would actually be sufficient if I could swap presets during a song.

Another interesting usage would be two or three different amp models for your clean, rhythm and lead sound (think of Eric Johnson). Currently you cannot use that potential (unless you have multiple units).

 

It's less about what the Stomp / Helix cannot do, it's more about sounds and pedals I love and I'm not interested in replacing (e.g. the POG has really good tracking with chords, fuzz pedals are always a bit different and if you like one just keep it, a real photocell vibe is hard to copy, Chase Bliss builds crazy analog stuff, Strymon has exceptional delay and reverb units, etc.). I think there are many guitarists out there, who feel the same way and are not willing to "give up" their favorite pedals for a big floor unit. The Stomp offers a great entry point into the digital simulation world.

 

I grew tired of carrying around heavy amps and the Stomp offers a great solution for that, but it could do so much more. I wouldn't mind spending more $ on a double DSP unit with perfect spill-over!

 

I certainly agree it could be MORE powerful - and cost more too. That wouldn't even necessarily be a bad thing. I might even buy it. 

 

I just have a hard time interpreting it as extremely limiting compared to what it's designed to compete up against (traditional pedals). It's great you'd rather use other fuzz pedals and I do that sometimes too (as well as sometimes other compressors, reverbs, etc.), but the Stomp is far more versatile than any fuzz pedal I know of . . . I'd call a pedal like that extremely limiting before I throw that label at the Stomp.

 

I can't think of another pedal options expansive as the Stomp. Just because I can think of more it could do doesn't make it an extremely limited pedal. 

[moehuh]

2 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

I certainly agree it could be MORE powerful - and cost more too. That wouldn't even necessarily be a bad thing. I might even buy it. 

 

I just have a hard time interpreting it as extremely limiting compared to what it's designed to compete up against (traditional pedals). It's great you'd rather use other fuzz pedals and I do that sometimes too (as well as sometimes other compressors, reverbs, etc.), but the Stomp is far more versatile than any fuzz pedal I know of . . . I'd call a pedal like that extremely limiting before I throw that label at the Stomp.

 

I can't think of another pedal options expansive as the Stomp. Just because I can think of more it could do doesn't make it an extremely limited pedal. 

 

Ah, now I get why you were asking :-) Of course the Stomp is mega versatile compared to other pedals. No question about that! Just as a side note though: a great fuzz face is probably the most versatile analog pedal possible: likely every gain stage you'll ever need just controlled by your guitar's volume ;-)

 

Ok, so let me rephrase: Without being able to fully use presets while you're playing, the Stomp is very limiting to ITSELF.

 

Think of the thread "Are 6 blocks enough?". I think they can be enough for one specific sound. But for a full song, 6 blocks are not a lot to work with. Sure you can work around that with using snapshots, using amp gain instead of overdrives etc., but compared to having and being able to access 126 completely unique presets, this seems really limiting. You could do: ambient swell for intro, crunch for rhythm parts, blistering solo with a Wah part in the middle and then a clean outro with a slight chorus. This would be really hard to do with one preset, but very easy with 4 different presets. Even without any other pedals!

 

So I stand by my word, so much unused potential without good transition between presets.

Always a matter of perspective, I guess ;-)

[moehuh]

Someone on the RJM forum suggested quickly switching the Stomp to true bypass, when a new preset is loading. I think this would be a cool and simple solution to reduce the pain of the current 200-300ms complete blackout. Especially, if not using amp sims and only effects. This would make preset transitions much less audible for sure!