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mitchmarkell

Confused about the use of Volume Pedal

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I am confused about how use a volume pedal block and where to place it in my preset signal path (chain) so that it only acts a true "louder quieter" pedal and does not change the sound or impact other blocks in the chain.

Example: If I place the volume pedal at the end of the chain (last block before Output) it still changes the intensity of my tremolo . So if I turn my pedal down with my tremolo active, - it sounds like there is no tremolo at all, - and only if I volume up on the pedal does it start to sound like there is tremolo happening. So put the tremolo block after the foot pedal in my signal path.

This is also happening with an EQ block I am using. If I set the Graphic 10 Band EQ where I like it at say 70% on my volume pedal, - when I turn the volume pedal down - it starts to sound super mid-rangy. 

Where can I place the volume pedal (or how do I set it up) so it makes everything sound exactly the same, but just a louder or quieter? 

 

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3 hours ago, mitchmarkell said:

If I set the Graphic 10 Band EQ where I like it at say 70% on my volume pedal, - when I turn the volume pedal down - it starts to sound super mid-rangy. 

 

Rule number 1: Setup all your tones at full volume, then use the pedal to back those off when needed. Cutting almost always has less side effects than boosting. In this case, you have learned that you do not like the volume pedal in front of the EQ, therefore, run it after :) 

 

I always run mine after any gain/drives/wah, etc... etc..., but before any modulations (chorus, tremolo, etc...), delays or reverbs. I may place it just before the amp block, or just after it.... 

 

EG: Guitar in > wah > overdrive pedals > any other effects before the amp > Maybe put the Volume Block Here > AMP BLOCK > or Maybe put the Volume Block Here > Modulation Effects > Delays > Reverbs 

 

That's just a general rule... not the only way it can be done.

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Thanks Codamedia. I understand your points. So for my case, all I want to do is boost my leads, which I could do with a present button on Helix instead of the pedal because an on/off boost would serve my purpose. But what kind of block would I use as a "post-amp" if you will? I would be want it to be the same as my normal tone, - but louder. 

Any suggestions?

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If you want an overall up/down with no tonal changes, put it at the very end. Any perceived change in "sound" is psychoacoustic. If you recorded it with volume at all different sweep positions and put it up on a scope, it would be the same for every volume level.

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Yeah, that's actually not true at all, - and the reason for my posted question. If I put the volume pedal at the very end of the chain the effects like tremolo or delay do not actually work when the pedal is at a low volume like if you set them at zero intensity or mix. And at least one of my E.Q. blocks changes the frequency response from scooped out mids to nearly all mid frequency. It's not at all imagined. I am a well experiencd musician and it's not a subtle difference at all. And I actually could record it for and would hear it too. 

But test for yourself. Place a tremolo block with high intensity before your volume pedal and you'll understand my question. 

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9 hours ago, mitchmarkell said:

Thanks Codamedia. I understand your points. So for my case, all I want to do is boost my leads, which I could do with a present button on Helix instead of the pedal because an on/off boost would serve my purpose. But what kind of block would I use as a "post-amp" if you will? I would be want it to be the same as my normal tone, - but louder. 

Any suggestions?

 

If all that you want is to simply boost the existing tone the simplest way is to use a compressor.  If you want more sustain then increase the release time, if you don't want it peaking change the ratio.  A lot of this sort of thing is done almost automatically for you with the Minotaur, but if you want more control over it you can just use a compressor and lift the volume output on the the compressor.  Alternatively you can just adjust the output level on the output block.

I'm just not a great fan of using a volume pedal for such things because it's sometimes hard to get it back to it's original position when you want to turn off the boost in volume.

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put the volume pedal right after the cab or ir. then ur delays and what not after that so you still hear them

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15 hours ago, mitchmarkell said:

But what kind of block would I use as a "post-amp" if you will? I would be want it to be the same as my normal tone, - but louder. 

Any suggestions?

 

There are many ways to do it, but in the scenario I would place a "GAIN" block at the very end of the chain and set it to +3. 

 

Set your tone up with the block on (which is the loudest setting).... when you turn the block off it will decrease by 3db... use that for your regular parts, and turn the block ON for solo's. If you are feeding a PA system, make sure the input level at the PA is set with the block ON (the loudest setting). 

 

Any difference you hear in effects will be "perceived", not real with a 3db cut. With a volume pedal I can see it interrupting the tones through the sweep, but not a basic 3db drop. 

 

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You might wanna make sure that some of your trem/EQ settings aren't being linked to your pedal that the volume is set to. I don't have that behavior at all. If I were going to set up a lead boost that wasn't a "tone" boost, I'd probably just pop a gain block after the amp/cab with the level set wherever you want it and toggle it on/off with a switch, or assign the channel level of the amp model to a snapshot. 

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On 2/19/2019 at 10:20 PM, mitchmarkell said:

If I put the volume pedal at the very end of the chain the effects like tremolo or delay do not actually work when the pedal is at a low volume like if you set them at zero intensity or mix.

 

I have tried it. It gives me an identical sound at a different volume. I'm wondering if you accidentally have a mix param assigned to EXP or something.

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As stated above, the only way I can imagine what you describe happening is if your trem & delay are set so that the mix alters with the sweep of the Exp pedal. Open the editor and check to see if there's a controller assigned to mix or, while playing check and see if the mix changes when you move the pedal. If so, simply remove the assignment.

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If you want to make everything louder or quieter, I think you can map a controller to the fixed output block volume.  If you want to control the output of the amp but not the effects post amp (my preferred configuration), you can map a controller to the Channel Volume of the amp block.  This method is good for volume swells from the amp block into a post-amp effects chain.

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1 hour ago, markbrid said:

If you want to make everything louder or quieter, I think you can map a controller to the fixed output block volume.  If you want to control the output of the amp but not the effects post amp (my preferred configuration), you can map a controller to the Channel Volume of the amp block.  This method is good for volume swells from the amp block into a post-amp effects chain.

 

Just to confirm, I've done all of these pretty regularly with the HX Stomp because blocks are at such a premium. In my opinion it works really well. I tend to use the amp channel volume instead of the final output volume block . . . but I'm not sure why I prefer that. 

 

They both work. 

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17 hours ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Just to confirm, I've done all of these pretty regularly with the HX Stomp because blocks are at such a premium. In my opinion it works really well. I tend to use the amp channel volume instead of the final output volume block . . . but I'm not sure why I prefer that. 

 

They both work. 

Because that way  your delays and reverbs tail off naturally instead of being silenced..

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On 2/20/2019 at 12:20 AM, mitchmarkell said:

Yeah, that's actually not true at all, - and the reason for my posted question. If I put the volume pedal at the very end of the chain the effects like tremolo or delay do not actually work when the pedal is at a low volume like if you set them at zero intensity or mix. And at least one of my E.Q. blocks changes the frequency response from scooped out mids to nearly all mid frequency. It's not at all imagined. I am a well experiencd musician and it's not a subtle difference at all. And I actually could record it for and would hear it too. 

But test for yourself. Place a tremolo block with high intensity before your volume pedal and you'll understand my question. 

But you are just wanting to boost your signal for leads, correct? The volume block at the end of the chain having an affect on tremolo when you turn it way down should not be a concern. 

 

My suggestion, plop the volume block at the front of your chain, play, then keep moving it to the right until you find a spot where it works for your needs. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:18 AM, malhavok said:

 

I have tried it. It gives me an identical sound at a different volume. I'm wondering if you accidentally have a mix param assigned to EXP or something.

Same for me, volume pedal at the very end of the chain gives me an identical sound at a different volume.

Can you upload your preset for testing? Maybe you use a stereo tremolo block and a mono volume block, an assigned mix param or something?

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