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HX Edit (2.81) and Helix Native starting with with a "blank" screen and crash

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10 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

The problem when you are in a small minority of users hitting this issue is that there is a lot less incentive for Line6 to invest the resources to track the issue down. Particularly given the possibility that it is not their device causing the issue. For the user this means going through the troubleshooting steps or just picking another computer to use with the Helix. 

 

This is the truth.  

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14 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

I'm pressing this point because when you use comments like "they're sitting on their hands" and "how about L6 fixes their software" it strikes me (as a former software developer and LONG TIME user of computers, and Windows support provider, and L6 user) as just plain ignorant. They try harder than any other HW/SW company I've ever worked with.

 

NOTE:

IGNORANT means "not knowing", as opposed to STUPID, which means "not able to know." Ignorance can be cured, and we do it here every day.

There's no cure for STUPID.

 

The fact is, L6 support will work with you to solve your problem. Hell, if you live in Colorado, bring me your computer, I'll fix it for ya, FREE! THAT'S how confident I am!

 

But if you insist on coming from a position of "It can't possibly be MY problem, it MUST be a bug, and L6 doesn't care!" despite the fact that you're in the tiny minority of users who have the problem, well, is that ignorance or stupidity?

 

I'm sorry that you find my comments ignorant.  I feel that if I am a paying customer I should get the paid software to work on a supported device. 

 

You state that L6 will work with me to solve my problem but L6 support hasn't worked with me yet and I've lodged my bug with them in the beginning of October. Also, I'm not the first person to see this issue. 

 

If anything I am coming from a position that software development is not easy, otherwise everyone would do it.  But, when you charge money for a software product, and don't support it, people aren't going to buy it.  Dare I say that even Apple has pushed updates that has borked applications? I mean it happens pretty frequently across all OS's.

 

I don't have to qualify my statement with an "as a....", this is just a fact.

 

PS. anyone In Colorado that is having this issue can bring rd2rk their pc for support.  Please let line6 know you've closed out the bug.

 

Buggy software happens.  Abandoning the platform for Apple isn't the answer.

  

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19 minutes ago, massatari said:

I'm sorry that you find my comments ignorant.  I feel that if I am a paying customer I should get the paid software to work on a supported device. 

 

I repeat: Ignorant means "Not Knowing". If you knew, we wouldn't be having this conversation. FWIW, I freely admit to being ignorant about many things.

BTW, you didn't pay for the SW, it was free, didn't come with the initial HW release, and isn't even necessary to use the HW.

 

19 minutes ago, massatari said:

You state that L6 will work with me to solve my problem but L6 support hasn't worked with me yet and I've lodged my bug with them in the beginning of October. Also, I'm not the first person to see this issue.

 

I've addressed this, as have others in currently running threads, and I know that you know that. You're part of a tiny minority and the problem is most likely a quirk of your specific HW/SW configuration. IT IS NOT A BUG! Else it would affect EVERYBODY!

 

19 minutes ago, massatari said:

when you charge money for a software product, and don't support it, people aren't going to buy it.

 

See above. You didn't buy it and it's not even necessary. Sales of the HW remain brisk, so it's obviously not as big a deal as you think it is.

 

19 minutes ago, massatari said:

PS. anyone In Colorado that is having this issue can bring rd2rk their pc for support.  Please let line6 know you've closed out the bug.

 

I made the offer to YOU, but if you want to be a jerk about it, I withdraw the offer.

 

19 minutes ago, massatari said:

Buggy software happens.  Abandoning the platform for Apple isn't the answer.

 

You insist on blaming the SW, and it could be, factoring in what I've said about the impossibility of L6 being able to test for the gazillion (means more zeros than you can shake a stick at) possible interactions in every conceivable Windows system. But you won't consider that, without having YOUR system on their bench to troubleshoot it (the basis of my support offer to YOU), it's not likely that they'll be ale to solve a system specific problem.

 

Switching to a more standardized platform like Apple IS the best answer for some.

 

Not using computers at all might even be better for some. People were playing electric guitar long before there were personal computers.

 

Some people actually consider it (HX Edit) detrimental to using Helix. I know, hard to believe. Luddites!

 

Lastly, I repeat, in case you're having trouble retaining provided information:

 

You did NOT buy HX Edit, it did NOT come with the original HW release, and it's not even necessary to use the HW. It's a gratis add-on from L6, and It's ENTIRELY your choice to use it or not. If your purchase of a Helix was contingent on the existence of HX Edit then, knowing as you do that "Buggy software happens", you made a poor choice.Own it.

 

 

 

 

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I'm depressed to even address these statements but here we are. 

 

42 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

I've addressed this, as have others in currently running threads, and I know that you know that. You're part of a tiny minority and the problem is most likely a quirk of your specific HW/SW configuration. IT IS NOT A BUG! Else it would affect EVERYBODY!

 

It does not have to effect everybody for it to be a bug. Also, there are other people having this very same issue with different hardware and software configs.

 

42 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

See above. You didn't buy it and it's not even necessary. Sales of the HW remain brisk, so it's obviously not as big a deal as you think it is.

 

I bought hardware that uses and promotes the HX edit software as a feature and means to control the hardware and I get on fine without it.  Also, I attempted to purchase the HX native plugin but it didn't work in the trial period so I didn't buy it because it didn't work, although I wished that it had.

 

42 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

You insist on blaming the SW, and it could be, factoring in what I've said about the impossibility of L6 being able to test for the gazillion (means more zeros than you can shake a stick at) possible interactions in every conceivable Windows system. But you won't consider that, without having YOUR system on their bench to troubleshoot it (the basis of my support offer to YOU), it's not likely that they'll be ale to solve a system specific problem.

 

I have offered everything that I can to Line6 to troubleshoot this problem for me and everyone else that is having it, but no takers (other than you). 

 

42 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Switching to a more standardized platform like Apple IS the best answer for some.

 

Repeating my first reply to this thread: How does this excuse L6 from supporting the software on an OS that they claim to support? 

 

42 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

You did NOT buy HX Edit, it did NOT come with the original HW release, and it's not even necessary to use the HW. It's a gratis add-on from L6, and It's ENTIRELY your choice to use it or not.

 

If your purchase of a Helix was contingent on the existence of HX Edit then, knowing as you do that "Buggy software happens", you made a poor choice.Own it.

what does this even mean? Use it or don't we don't care? 

 

The product HX Native is not an addon or free. That product is also exhibiting the same issue( as noted in the title of this thread ).  I am seeing exactly what the thread creator is seeing.  So I chose to not purchase that product.  It is still not working for my(and other users') platform.  I chose to not own it, because it doesn't work for the system that it is supposed to work with.

 

So do you have a fix or are you just suggesting that I switch my whole rig back to Apple?  Speaking for myself and others, we'd just like the software to work. Thanks for the headache. 

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I'm depressed that you're depressed, but here we are.

That's a lie.

 

1 hour ago, massatari said:

I have offered everything that I can to Line6 to troubleshoot this problem for me and everyone else that is having it, but no takers (other than you).

 

1 hour ago, massatari said:

So do you have a fix or are you just suggesting that I switch my whole rig back to Apple?

 

FWIW - If this is really that important to you, here's what I'd do, one step at a time, testing after each step:

 

Start by running a thorough hardware scan. Full 24 hour memory test, hard drive analysis the whole nine yards. Establish that it's not a hardware defect to the best of your ability.

Update all the hardware drivers - MB, Chipset, etc.

Get a small ssd, 128 would do it, and they're pretty cheap these days.

Install and fully update Windows10.

Optimize Windows for use with DAW (I assume you've already done this on your machine, if not, google it, and follow ALL the directions).

Install a free DAW like Reaper (I could at least advise you with that one).

Install HX Edit (v2.82) and the Native Trial.

If they give you grief over having already done it (Native Trial), contact Frank Ritchotte on TGP and explain the situation, I'm sure he'll fix you up.

 

If, after following ALL those steps, you still can't get HX Edit and Native to work, send me your computer (modified version, don't want your main HD).

If I CAN'T get it working, I'll pay the round-trip shipping when I return it to you.

 

If I DO get it working, all you owe me is to admit on this thread that it was user error, and suggest to L6 Support that they send me some free swag for my efforts.

 

Why would I do this? Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I feel that you've challenged me and I hereby call your bluff.

 

1 hour ago, massatari said:

Thanks for the headache. 

 

You're Welcome. Take an aspirin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, massatari said:

thanks for your suggestions rd2rk

 

You're Welcome. Hope something there works for you.

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Also - as others have said, Helix is very finicky about USB cables. You may have to try a few to get one that works. And if you're using a desktop, always use the rear USB ports.

 

On 8/6/2019 at 2:30 PM, naturian said:

Hey Fellas,

 

i have one major problem. I can't use HX Edit and Helix Native on my desktop computer (Win 10 1903, i5 8600k, 32 GB Ram, 1080 GTX). I gets stuck when i start both respectively it show nothing. When i connect my Helix Floor to my computer the HX Edit detects the board and shuts down immediately after.

 

I installed an older version and in works until 2.60. I guess this error is due to the login to line 6. This doesn't happen on my Lenovo E460 with Windows 10. Resetting Windows is no option for me tbh. Repair installation didn't help too. 

 

Deactivating the firewall and the anti virus service (both Windows Defener) hadn't had any effect. 

 

Do you have any hint for me how to solve this? :( I don't want to configure my Helix on my NB, because of the squishy control. 

 

Regards

Marcel

 

On 8/10/2019 at 9:36 AM, spenserj87 said:

I’m having the same exact issue, just to offer comfort ;).  I’m not running Native at all, never have. I’ve tried everything you’ve tried with no luck. I’ve given up, it’s in Line 6 hands at this point. FYI, I’m running AMD Radeon graphics, you are GTX. So it doesn’t sound like a graphics card or driver issue.  

 

On 10/13/2019 at 8:27 AM, polemides said:

Same issue here. Also a European user. I followed the patch notes to the letter.  Even formatted my HD and re-installed Windows 10 (1903) in an attempt to fix. I'll open a ticket and report if it gets sorted out.

 

On 12/8/2019 at 1:51 AM, refagaem said:

Hi,

same issue here, ( From France) windows 10 1903 on PC

I used  HX stomp since i bought it with HX Edit without any issue for 6months, i did the necessary with Firmware 2.82 and everything was perfect till last week.

I experiement no conection between HX Stomp and HX edit ( no device connected message), i tried to reload HX edit many times nothing!

I'll also open a ticket and the answer was to press FS2 and FS3 switch and power on the Stomp....

The issue is evidently another thing but what?

I report if something new happens.

 

Sorry for my poor English.

 

On 12/7/2019 at 8:19 PM, terpdude said:

Same issue. I'm in the US. I've contacted support. I've gone back and forth with them trying the usual stuff that I've already tried. Has anyone gotten to the bottom of this yet? 

 

Did any of you resolve the issue?

If so, please post back with your solution.

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Hello from belgium,

 

I've also this bug with the gui of both Helix Native Plugin and Hx Edit on my laptop (Asus G752VS with Intel 530 Deactived by asus... Only the NVidia Gtx 1070 work).

 

The last version know to work on my laptop is the Helix Native Plugin 1.70... When i update to 1.71 -> Black Gui. HxEdit simply crash after the same graphical bug.

 

For those who can deactivate their nvidia card (Uninstall completly the nvidia drivers...) and let the intel card manage the display, this can unblock the situation. (I tested this on my studio pc and that is working... After the initial login in the plugin or HXEdit, you can reinstall the nvidia card ... it should work !)

 

Personally, on my laptop, i can not because my intel card integrated into the processor is disabled by Asus. So, for me, there's a problem with dedicated graphics card...  NVidia or AMD... Same fight !

 

For now, I cannot use the Helix Native plugin or even HxEdit because, simply, I cannot log in to activate them.

 

Line 6, could you please, erase this bug ?

 

Thank you in advance...

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6 hours ago, xlbe said:

Line 6, could you please, erase this bug ?

 

 

No one is listening  here.

Open a support ticket.

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Quote

No one is listening  here.

Why am i not surprised :-)

 

I open a support ticket ... some days ago ;-) I'm waiting for a solution...

 

For now, it's just very annoying... ... ...

 

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 12:10 PM, xlbe said:

Why am i not surprised :-)

 

I open a support ticket ... some days ago ;-) I'm waiting for a solution...

 

For now, it's just very annoying... ... ...

 

 

 

I'm having the same issue. I have a GTX 960. I think it's a graphics card issue as well. I've been going back and forth with Line 6 support, and they can't figure it out. They basically gave up, and said they'd keep me in mind if anyone was able to figure it out >:-(

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I am running into the same issue from the past 6 months did everything the support team said but no luck in getting it running!! They say try on a new machine but I recently got this laptop and do not have access to a computer to try it on!! Any solutions to this?

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4 hours ago, spenserj87 said:

Is anyone experiencing this problem part of the beta testing for 2.9?


I think that it would have been reported, but possibly not in this forum and why would it. At the beta stage it is not relevant to end users.

 

Furthermore, I’m not aware of any of the testers who post on here, commenting that this was an issue on any previous versions of the firmware. It stands to reason if this was a recurring issue it would have been error trapped at a pre-release stage. Although bugs do slip the net, I don’t think that Line 6 would deliberately release software  that doesn’t work - it’s not in their interest.

 

As noted by “rd2rk” in earlier posts there are simply too many variables with how people configure their Window machines, especially self builds. In other threads on here, some have mentioned that the issues that they were experiencing were eventually revealed to be conflicts with Mother Boards, Graphic Cards and other stuff that had been added into the mix.

 

My attitude is, if you are going to use a PC for music, games, 3D rendering or motion graphics then it is probably better if that machine is dedicated to that sole purpose. This is not just aimed at Windows users as there are also many Apple Mac users who spend a large chunk of cash on a new Helix and then hook it up to a 10 year old operating system only to to find they have problems. I believe the term is “Horses for courses”.


YMMV.


Edit:

What surprises me about this thread, among many others, is the fact that nobody bothers to return to say the problem is fixed and what caused it. Maybe just too embarrassed?

 

Edited by datacommando
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On 3/3/2020 at 5:17 AM, datacommando said:


I think that it would have been reported, but possibly not in this forum and why would it. At the beta stage it is not relevant to end users.

 

Furthermore, I’m not aware of any of the testers who post on here, commenting that this was an issue on any previous versions of the firmware. It stands to reason if this was a recurring issue it would have been error trapped at a pre-release stage. Although bugs do slip the net, I don’t think that Line 6 would deliberately release software  that doesn’t work - it’s not in their interest.

 

As noted by “rd2rk” in earlier posts there are simply too many variables with how people configure their Window machines, especially self builds. In other threads on here, some have mentioned that the issues that they were experiencing were eventually revealed to be conflicts with Mother Boards, Graphic Cards and other stuff that had been added into the mix.

 

My attitude is, if you are going to use a PC for music, games, 3D rendering or motion graphics then it is probably better if that machine is dedicated to that sole purpose. This is not just aimed at Windows users as there are also many Apple Mac users who spend a large chunk of cash on a new Helix and then hook it up to a 10 year old operating system only to to find they have problems. I believe the term is “Horses for courses”.


YMMV.


Edit:

What surprises me about this thread, among many others, is the fact that nobody bothers to return to say the problem is fixed and what caused it. Maybe just too embarrassed?

 

I can reply to this with a follow up.  I just seemed to come up with a workaround yesterday.

 

In my case, my windows 10 machine was a 1 year old purchased HP system no mods, no homebuild or add-ins, strictly used for music production.   Helix Native and HX edit works fine in older versions (<2.7 or so) but doesn't display anything after the 2.8 releases. 

 

I ended up adding a video adapter to the system to test this out. Adding an add-in graphics adapter and letting windows 10 choose the correct drivers seemed to have resolved the issue but I am still monitoring this.  That said, the onboard graphics adapter was using the latest drivers available and I had tried to use a number of different drivers to remedy this but to no relief.  I did submit a SOS report and system analysis to Line6 for any support but wasn't able to get over the hurdle.  Maybe this can help, but adding in additional hardware to a preconfigured system provided a workaround. 

 

 

 

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On 3/6/2020 at 3:45 PM, massatari said:

I just seemed to come up with a workaround yesterday.

 

Hi "massatari",

 

My last post was simply as a response to the question of if this problem has cropped up during beta testing, which I felt was a rather odd question to ask. Also I commented as to why some people never seem to bother to let other users know the problem is fixed - so many thanks for the status update - good to know that you seem to have found a "workaround" for the problem.

 

I have just read back over this thread, which started way back in August last year and your first post about this was in October 2019. I am rather intrigued to know how you have managed from then until now, as you say that you only found this fix yesterday. Maybe you could advise Line 6 support, as it is highly unlikely that any members of Line 6 staff would pick it up on here, as they rarely visit these pages.

 

Regards 

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1 hour ago, datacommando said:

 I am rather intrigued to know how you have managed from then until now,

By not using HX edit or Helix Native.

 

Edit: 2.7 worked, I could always roll back version if I wanted to.

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I have the same problem, transparent HX Edit window that crashes. I've tried to install HX Edit 2.70 just to see if it worked, and it did, except of course I cannot connect my Helix LT with 2.82 firmware.

It's funny cause until some Windows or video card update HX Edit 2.82 was working fine.

 

Right now I can only run HX Edit on my laptop as a backup, but I hope they can find the root cause of the issue since it's happening for several users. At least acknowledging there is some problem would tell us if it's something with our PC or some fault between drivers and software. 

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27 minutes ago, Tom067 said:

I have the same problem, transparent HX Edit window that crashes. I've tried to install HX Edit 2.70 just to see if it worked, and it did, except of course I cannot connect my Helix LT with 2.82 firmware.

 

You can probably back-rev the device and HX Edit back to the working versions and get edit to play in 2.7.  You would lose any of the newer features in 2.8+.  This worked for me for my testing.  Assuming something 2.8+ in the way that graphics are rendered.  IIRC the process is still active in the system even when you have no graphic output.

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1 hour ago, massatari said:

 

You can probably back-rev the device and HX Edit back to the working versions and get edit to play in 2.7.  You would lose any of the newer features in 2.8+.  This worked for me for my testing.  Assuming something 2.8+ in the way that graphics are rendered.  IIRC the process is still active in the system even when you have no graphic output.

 

I'd prefer not to revert to 2.7 if I can, but definitely better than trying to reinstall Windows. I guess I'll have to wait for 2.9 to see if they solved it.

 

I wonder what is that trips up HX Edit to show the blank screen and crash. I mean, I don't suppose they updated the UI all that much between 2.8 and 2.7, did they?

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11 minutes ago, Tom067 said:

 

I'd prefer not to revert to 2.7 if I can, but definitely better than trying to reinstall Windows. I guess I'll have to wait for 2.9 to see if they solved it.

 

I wonder what is that trips up HX Edit to show the blank screen and crash. I mean, I don't suppose they updated the UI all that much between 2.8 and 2.7, did they?

I wouldn't expect much from a reinstall I think you'd arrive at the same place.

So here's my question for you: Edit 2.8.2 was working in Windows 10 until a Windows update broke it.  Can you undo the update?

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3 minutes ago, massatari said:

I wouldn't expect much from a reinstall I think you'd arrive at the same place.

So here's my question for you: Edit 2.8.2 was working in Windows 10 until a Windows update broke it.  Can you undo the update?

Not anymore apparently. I think at the moment I'll stick to the laptop for any changes that require HX Edit and wait until the next update.

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Hi all,

 

Just wanted to chime in.

I have 2 Windows systems.

System 1: Full Tower with Helix Rack connected - latest version, all works fine

System 2: Intel NUC with Helix LT connected - HX Edit showing blank screen and crashing straight away since 2.80

 

All NUC hardware drivers are up to date. The NUC has a Radeon  RX Vega M GH Graphics Card, which I wonder if this is an issue? The card seems to work well and I can run most PC games at playable settings without issues. The Helix LT also works fine and I can use it successfully as an ASIO interface, but just cannot open HX Edit to tweak my patches...

 

Has anyone else managed to get their issue solved? I see in a post above that using an add-on graphics card helped. Was it an 'M' class graphics card previously?

 

I did send a support request some time ago, but never followed it up - just resurrecting it again as I'd like to use HX Edit rather than getting on the floor to tweak patches every time...

 

Cheers!

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On 3/20/2020 at 9:17 AM, tshadgett said:

All NUC hardware drivers are up to date. The NUC has a Radeon  RX Vega M GH Graphics Card, which I wonder if this is an issue?

 

Has anyone else managed to get their issue solved? I see in a post above that using an add-on graphics card helped. Was it an 'M' class graphics card previously?

 

 

 

In my situation the onboard intel graphics was an Intel P530 that did not work and gave me the blank screen.  Switching to the Nvidia Quadro FX1800 adapter seems to get the Helix Native plugin and HXEdit to render graphics and not freeze the DAW when loading Native.

All drivers and OS updates were up to date at the time of testing.

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Thanks massatari,

 

My system shows two Display Adaptors:

Intel (R) HD Graphics 630 

Radeon RX Vega M GH Graphics

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Guys, i've got same problem from sepember 2019, when 2.80 has been released.  

 

Reinstalled whole system twice, formatted hard drives, tried different drivers for everything, including frameworks and other software. NO RESULT.

 

2.7 works fine, but up from 2.80 i see black screen in HX EDIT and in trial NATIVE also.

 

Clearly this is a bug, and i am ignored in support tickets, l6 discussion group. I am really pissed right now, because i see this is clearly not fault of my cpu and much more people are ignored with this bug. 

 

How long we have to wait for solution???

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Just updating my situation to say that 2.9 does not fix this. I have not bought a new graphics card to try that route, the plan was to do a new PC build as mine is 5 years old. But the current economic environment has me holding off. So I may now grab an Nvidia card to see if that resolves. My current system has a Radeon card, although if I use the built in Intel graphics, same issue occurs. I’ve done a fresh win10 install so it’s clearly some sort of hardware glitch, just odd that 2.7 ran flawlessly and no version after that does. Same with Helix Native. I continue to use my laptop as a workaround. 

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1 hour ago, spenserj87 said:

Just updating my situation to say that 2.9 does not fix this. I have not bought a new graphics card to try that route, the plan was to do a new PC build as mine is 5 years old. But the current economic environment has me holding off. So I may now grab an Nvidia card to see if that resolves. My current system has a Radeon card, although if I use the built in Intel graphics, same issue occurs. I’ve done a fresh win10 install so it’s clearly some sort of hardware glitch, just odd that 2.7 ran flawlessly and no version after that does. Same with Helix Native. I continue to use my laptop as a workaround. 

 

 

I updated 2.9 and graphics are ok so far with the Nvidia adapter. Issue started in 2.8, installed Nvidia adapter as a workaround.

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TL;DR: skip to the end for a possible solution

I've spent the past 4 days troubleshooting this. Different drivers, different video cards, sound cards, USB ports, cables, everything I could think of. I was able to consistently reproduce the issue, namely that I could use HX Edit 2.70 and Native 1.70 perfectly on my desktop, but all versions of HX Edit 2.71 / Native 1.71 and newer flat out wouldn't work on the same computer, despite working just fine on my laptop. I can confidently say it has nothing to do with the Helix device, the USB cable, or the USB port. (there are other issues that can crop up from each of those, but not THIS issue) You can identify the issue without the Helix connected at all, just from HX Edit opening with a semi-transparent background rather than black, or Native not showing anything at all when loaded. When HX Edit opens with the transparent background, you can let it sit there forever and it will stay open. Once you connect the Helix, you'll see the title bar momentarily switch from No Device Connected to the name of the Helix device, then the program vanishes.

This is what HX Edit is supposed to look like if you open it without a device connected:
HXEdit_Working.thumb.jpg.1afd02523d2b69c9bb07904b522c12e1.jpg

 

And here is what it looks like with no device connected when it isn't going to work:
HXEdit_Broken.thumb.jpg.5b07bd7784cce4d915ee5fd7c7965ef2.jpg

 

The trees are part of my desktop background. Both of those screen shots are taking on the exact same system, same OS install, hardware, software, drivers, etc. Same HX Edit version (2.90). The only difference is the UEFI/Bios drive order.

I stumbled on this by chance as I was testing a clean install on a different drive. This desktop has 2x stand alone Samsung 970 Evo NVME drives, (OS on one of them), a SATA Bluray drive, and 2x 6Tb SATA drives set up as a mirrored Microsoft Storage Spaces drive. When the bios detects either of those Storage Spaces connected drives before the others, HX Edit and Native won't work. As long as any other directly accessible drive is seen as Disk 0, HX Edit and Native work like they should.

And this is really easy to check: open a command prompt as Administrator and type the following commands:
DiskPart

List Disk

You should get a list of the drives in your system. Look on the left for the Disk number and make sure the list starts at Disk 0. It doesn't have to be the drive your OS is on, it just needs to show up as Disk 0 and show a status of Online. When my Storage Spaces drives are detected first, my drive numbers start at 1 or above, Drive 0 isn't listed at all, and HX Edit/Native won't work. I am able to consistently reproduce both the problem and the fix by shifting the bios drive detection order. I think what is happening is that the software does some sort of quick hardware detection at startup, and gets hung up if Disk 0 isn't online. (The emulated Storage Space drive will show up as a separate, higher Disk number) I suspect the same problem might occur when the first disk is part of a RAID.

So if DiskPart doesn't show a Disk 0 with a status of Online,  go into the bios and try to re-order your drives. On my ASRock Z390, I was able to do this by just disabling both SATA controllers, restarting, then turning them back on. That shifted the NVME drives to the front of the line, with the SATA storage spaces drives at the end. (Note: this is the drive detection order, NOT the boot order) You could also try changing the physical port your drives are connected to. Or if all of your drives are part of a storage space or RAID, you could try adding another drive to the mix.

Edited by Camelot_One
Typo on Diskpart command
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Nice troubleshooting. I'm wondering if this is part of the application load process now. I'm thinking instead of a hardware check it's trying to find license or user info or something that looks for user info and the disk enumeration throws off the process.  Also, you have a typo in your cmd. DiskPark should be DiskPart.

 

edit comment. I'm sure we all have submitted SOS or system logs and hardware info with our Bug reports, so L6 should have the info and be able to correlate. FWIW I also use SATA storage in a RAID config on this system, the OS is installed to a different local disk.

Edited by massatari
adding comment

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Good catch, typo fixed.
Yeah your video card fix had me stumped. I tried the Intel IGP, as well as Radeon and Nvidia cards, different monitors, resolutions, all with no luck. It is a bit of a stretch, but I wonder if your RAID was originally Disk 0, and it was the fresh hardware detection being kicked off by a new video card that re-ordered drives.

Or, there could just be multiple things that can cause the problem.

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I'm not a Windows expert so I can't say much about a display adapter interfering with the drive enumeration. Other than to show that there is a faithful reproducer from your work.  And I'm not sure if it's leading to just one issue.

 

Honestly, I'm not really feeling like doing any more work on this, since its working for me (for now).  I hate to have my house of cards Line6 software crap out now that i'm actually able to use it.

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10 hours ago, Camelot_One said:

TL;DR: skip to the end for a possible solution

I've spent the past 4 days troubleshooting this. Different drivers, different video cards, sound cards, USB ports, cables, everything I could think of. I was able to consistently reproduce the issue, namely that I could use HX Edit 2.70 and Native 1.70 perfectly on my desktop, but all versions of HX Edit 2.71 / Native 1.71 and newer flat out wouldn't work on the same computer, despite working just fine on my laptop. I can confidently say it has nothing to do with the Helix device, the USB cable, or the USB port. (there are other issues that can crop up from each of those, but not THIS issue) You can identify the issue without the Helix connected at all, just from HX Edit opening with a semi-transparent background rather than black, or Native not showing anything at all when loaded. When HX Edit opens with the transparent background, you can let it sit there forever and it will stay open. Once you connect the Helix, you'll see the title bar momentarily switch from No Device Connected to the name of the Helix device, then the program vanishes.

This is what HX Edit is supposed to look like if you open it without a device connected:
HXEdit_Working.thumb.jpg.1afd02523d2b69c9bb07904b522c12e1.jpg

 

And here is what it looks like with no device connected when it isn't going to work:
HXEdit_Broken.thumb.jpg.5b07bd7784cce4d915ee5fd7c7965ef2.jpg

 

The trees are part of my desktop background. Both of those screen shots are taking on the exact same system, same OS install, hardware, software, drivers, etc. Same HX Edit version (2.90). The only difference is the UEFI/Bios drive order.

I stumbled on this by chance as I was testing a clean install on a different drive. This desktop has 2x stand alone Samsung 970 Evo NVME drives, (OS on one of them), a SATA Bluray drive, and 2x 6Tb SATA drives set up as a mirrored Microsoft Storage Spaces drive. When the bios detects either of those Storage Spaces connected drives before the others, HX Edit and Native won't work. As long as any other directly accessible drive is seen as Disk 0, HX Edit and Native work like they should.

And this is really easy to check: open a command prompt as Administrator and type the following commands:
DiskPart

List Disk

You should get a list of the drives in your system. Look on the left for the Disk number and make sure the list starts at Disk 0. It doesn't have to be the drive your OS is on, it just needs to show up as Disk 0 and show a status of Online. When my Storage Spaces drives are detected first, my drive numbers start at 1 or above, Drive 0 isn't listed at all, and HX Edit/Native won't work. I am able to consistently reproduce both the problem and the fix by shifting the bios drive detection order. I think what is happening is that the software does some sort of quick hardware detection at startup, and gets hung up if Disk 0 isn't online. (The emulated Storage Space drive will show up as a separate, higher Disk number) I suspect the same problem might occur when the first disk is part of a RAID.

So if DiskPart doesn't show a Disk 0 with a status of Online,  go into the bios and try to re-order your drives. On my ASRock Z390, I was able to do this by just disabling both SATA controllers, restarting, then turning them back on. That shifted the NVME drives to the front of the line, with the SATA storage spaces drives at the end. (Note: this is the drive detection order, NOT the boot order) You could also try changing the physical port your drives are connected to. Or if all of your drives are part of a storage space or RAID, you could try adding another drive to the mix.

 

This is great information - thanks so much for sharing!

 

I managed to have a bit of a play with my system this morning and here's my experience

 

I have two M.2 SSD Drives, 500GB for the OS and 2TB for samples etc.

Looking in DiskPart, they were listed as Drive 1 and Drive 2 with Drive 1 as the 2TB. There was no mention of a Drive 0.

Entering the BIOS, I disabled SATA and rebooted. HxEdit worked! but no second drive available - in DiskPart, the OS is the only disk and it's listed as Drive 0.

 

Tried physically swapping the SSDs. The order was now correct with the OS being Drive 1. Tried both enabling SATA and disabling SATA - both drives were now active (listed as Drive 1 and Drive 2 in DiskPart in the preferred order of OS being Drive 1) but HX Edit does not open.

 

So, swapped the SSDs back around and booted back up with SATA disabled - again, HxEdit worked, but no second drive available.

 

So, for now, I'll re-enable the SATA and be without HXEdit. But hopefully that provides Line6 with some more info! and it's good to know it's repeatable!

If anyone has some advice for me, that would be great!

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It sounds like your 500Gb OS drive an an NVMe M.2, while your 2Tb is a SATA M.2. It also sounds like you have something else is connecting to the SATA controller. A DVD drive, Bluray drive, maybe even just an eSATA port on the case. Do you have any SATA data cables connected to the board? If so, try disconnecting them, and booting up with the SATA controller enabled. If that doesn't work:

 

What is the make/model of the motherboard, and of each of the drives?

What mode is the SATA controller in? (Legacy, AHCI, RAID, etc) - this setting is in the bios

Are you using Storage Spaces on that 2Tb drive?

 

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11 hours ago, Camelot_One said:

It sounds like your 500Gb OS drive an an NVMe M.2, while your 2Tb is a SATA M.2. It also sounds like you have something else is connecting to the SATA controller. A DVD drive, Bluray drive, maybe even just an eSATA port on the case. Do you have any SATA data cables connected to the board? If so, try disconnecting them, and booting up with the SATA controller enabled. If that doesn't work:

 

What is the make/model of the motherboard, and of each of the drives?

What mode is the SATA controller in? (Legacy, AHCI, RAID, etc) - this setting is in the bios

Are you using Storage Spaces on that 2Tb drive?

 

 

Yes, you are correct, the 500GB is NVMe and the 2TB is SATA. No, there is no other SATA device. This machine is an intel NUC Hades Canyon, and just has two M.2 slots that I am using. SATA is in AHCI mode. 500GB SSD is a Crucial P1 NVMe and the 2TB is a Samsung 860 Evo M.2.

No, I am not using Storage Spaces at all.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Tim

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On 4/22/2020 at 11:27 AM, Camelot_One said:

TL;DR: skip to the end for a possible solution

I've spent the past 4 days troubleshooting this. Different drivers, different video cards, sound cards, USB ports, cables, everything I could think of. I was able to consistently reproduce the issue, namely that I could use HX Edit 2.70 and Native 1.70 perfectly on my desktop, but all versions of HX Edit 2.71 / Native 1.71 and newer flat out wouldn't work on the same computer, despite working just fine on my laptop. I can confidently say it has nothing to do with the Helix device, the USB cable, or the USB port. (there are other issues that can crop up from each of those, but not THIS issue) You can identify the issue without the Helix connected at all, just from HX Edit opening with a semi-transparent background rather than black, or Native not showing anything at all when loaded. When HX Edit opens with the transparent background, you can let it sit there forever and it will stay open. Once you connect the Helix, you'll see the title bar momentarily switch from No Device Connected to the name of the Helix device, then the program vanishes.

This is what HX Edit is supposed to look like if you open it without a device connected:
HXEdit_Working.thumb.jpg.1afd02523d2b69c9bb07904b522c12e1.jpg

 

And here is what it looks like with no device connected when it isn't going to work:
HXEdit_Broken.thumb.jpg.5b07bd7784cce4d915ee5fd7c7965ef2.jpg

 

The trees are part of my desktop background. Both of those screen shots are taking on the exact same system, same OS install, hardware, software, drivers, etc. Same HX Edit version (2.90). The only difference is the UEFI/Bios drive order.

I stumbled on this by chance as I was testing a clean install on a different drive. This desktop has 2x stand alone Samsung 970 Evo NVME drives, (OS on one of them), a SATA Bluray drive, and 2x 6Tb SATA drives set up as a mirrored Microsoft Storage Spaces drive. When the bios detects either of those Storage Spaces connected drives before the others, HX Edit and Native won't work. As long as any other directly accessible drive is seen as Disk 0, HX Edit and Native work like they should.

And this is really easy to check: open a command prompt as Administrator and type the following commands:
DiskPart

List Disk

You should get a list of the drives in your system. Look on the left for the Disk number and make sure the list starts at Disk 0. It doesn't have to be the drive your OS is on, it just needs to show up as Disk 0 and show a status of Online. When my Storage Spaces drives are detected first, my drive numbers start at 1 or above, Drive 0 isn't listed at all, and HX Edit/Native won't work. I am able to consistently reproduce both the problem and the fix by shifting the bios drive detection order. I think what is happening is that the software does some sort of quick hardware detection at startup, and gets hung up if Disk 0 isn't online. (The emulated Storage Space drive will show up as a separate, higher Disk number) I suspect the same problem might occur when the first disk is part of a RAID.

So if DiskPart doesn't show a Disk 0 with a status of Online,  go into the bios and try to re-order your drives. On my ASRock Z390, I was able to do this by just disabling both SATA controllers, restarting, then turning them back on. That shifted the NVME drives to the front of the line, with the SATA storage spaces drives at the end. (Note: this is the drive detection order, NOT the boot order) You could also try changing the physical port your drives are connected to. Or if all of your drives are part of a storage space or RAID, you could try adding another drive to the mix.

 

Some stellar troubleshooting work here! If you have not already you should provide this information directly to Line6 in a ticket. Don't rely on them seeing it here. This could be very helpful information if it proves to be accurate and you do seem to have a repeatable test case. If it is not the sole possible cause for this issue it will still help narrow things down and assist in finding any other causes.

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Same problem here. HX Edit 2.90 opens with black semi-transparent screen, then crashes.

Windows 10 event log shows the crash details.

 

- <System>
  <Provider Name="Application Error" />
  <EventID Qualifiers="0">1000</EventID>
  <Level>2</Level>
  <Task>100</Task>
  <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
  <TimeCreated SystemTime="2020-04-23T18:23:49.719526500Z" />
  <EventRecordID>52828</EventRecordID>
  <Channel>Application</Channel>
  <Computer>DESKTOP-M3BAUKE</Computer>
  <Security />
  </System>
- <EventData>
  <Data>HX Edit.exe</Data>
  <Data>2.90.0.0</Data>
  <Data>5e9dddde</Data>
  <Data>HX Edit.exe</Data>
  <Data>2.90.0.0</Data>
  <Data>5e9dddde</Data>
  <Data>c0000005</Data>
  <Data>00299363</Data>
  <Data>4e0</Data>
  <Data>01d6199c457f5bf7</Data>
  <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\Line6\HX Edit\HX Edit.exe</Data>
  <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\Line6\HX Edit\HX Edit.exe</Data>
  <Data>bc96ebdc-e7e1-46ff-8047-24ed497e07b8</Data>
  <Data />
  <Data />
  </EventData>
  </Event>

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12 hours ago, tshadgett said:

 

This machine is an intel NUC Hades Canyon, and just has two M.2 slots that I am using.

 

Tim

I haven't had my hands on one of those. It's a long shot, but you could try disabling the media card reader in the bios.

I did submit a ticket to Line6 with my findings, so hopefully they'll eliminate the problem in the next release.

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That's a nice catch.  I can confirm that in my situation, Win10 doesn't show a Disk0.  I was going to troubleshoot, but I've now run into a situation where I can't boot into the BIOS.  Odd, I've had this board running for a few years and have never had an issue with booting into the BIOS.  I'm not sure what the issue is.  I replaced a drive not too long ago, but I was able to get into BIOS then.  I did a fresh install a few months ago and didn't install any of the years-old motherboard drivers, relying on the Win/Intel generics (the latest posted drivers for this mb are from 2015).  The only other change is I'm running a different second monitor using HDMI.  I don't get a visible POST screen when I reboot and even when I use the motherboard utility to reboot into the BIOS, I just get a blank screen - feels like it's just not displaying, but I've tried removing/adding displays, different display connects.  Not froze, it responds to a Ctrl-Alt-Del.  Motherboard is an ASRock Z97E-ITX/ac.  I'll have to spend some time figuring this out.  I know Win10 updates have changed some of the boot routines, but I'm not seeing a work-around yet.

 

But nice Disk0 catch.  I would hope this would set Line 6 on the right track!

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