Why doesn't the Noise Gate block do what it says?

[kylotan]

I have a noise gate block as the first thing in my patch. Threshold is -45dB, decay 30ms, level is 0. I monitor it in Helix Native, and my input signal is below -60dB. Yet still hiss is slipping through.

 

If I bypass the gate, the output sound gets a lot louder, so it is obviously strongly attenuating the signal - but it's certainly not gating it. The gate options on the input itself seem no better.

 

The Hard Gate is a bit more usable thankfully.

 

It would be great if there were some real documentation for the blocks!

[lungho]

Try using the built in noise gate instead.  For Helix hardware, move the cursor over your input....the icon all the way to the top most left that looks like a guitar.  In Helix Native, the icon will look a like a sound wave and will say Host.

[kylotan]

I did.

 

11 hours ago, kylotan said:

The gate options on the input itself seem no better.

 

[SaschaFranck]

11 hours ago, kylotan said:

It would be great if there were some real documentation for the blocks!

 

Amen to that. There's some FX types (and even amps) where it's more or less guesswork regarding what the parameters are doing.

[BBD_123]

14 hours ago, kylotan said:

The Hard Gate is a bit more usable thankfully.

 

Back in the days of HD500, the Noise Gate wasn't a true noise gate but the Hard Gate was and so worked better. It sounds as though this may still be the case with Helix:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/ampTone#noiseGates

[ioannisfidelis]

You could try to use 2 noise gate instances with lower threshold.

I am using active EMG pickups without the pad activated, the input gate is set at -72db, 10ms, and I am using a second one set at -46db, 10ms.

Keep in mind that the second instance of the gate is positioned after my drive TS808 for better results.

Hope this helps

[themetallikid]

31 minutes ago, ioannisfidelis said:

You could try to use 2 noise gate instances with lower threshold.

I am using active EMG pickups without the pad activated, the input gate is set at -72db, 10ms, and I am using a second one set at -46db, 10ms.

Keep in mind that the second instance of the gate is positioned after my drive TS808 for better results.

Hope this helps

I do this as well on anything above medium gain.  I have my input gate set to -53db, 0ms this just helps mute the guitar between songs, as soon as I play it opens up like nothing was there.  

 

I add a noise gate block between OD's and Amp block.  this helps clean up noise between those....usually set to -48db/0ms.  When I kick my leads on...I disable the 2nd noise gate as I don't want it to choke any sustaining/feedbacking notes I get through my wedge. 

[rd2rk]

Using my Strat's bridge pickup and a high gain amp or distortion pedal, I get the expected single-coil noise.

I apply the Input Block's noise gate, noise be gone.

Maybe something else going on here?

[SaschaFranck]

I'm using the input blocks gate to adjust the patch in use (I usually just use one patch per gig) according to the situation. Sometimes there's noisier enviroments (light interferences and such), so it's nice being able to get rid of a portion of noise as close to the source as possible. And I usually switch on another gate simultaneously with other things introducing noise. I usually don't need to touch that gate once the patch is done.

[gunpointmetal]

The "Noise Gate" in the dynamics FX section is more of a suppressor than an actual gate, similar the Boss NS-2. If you're battling noisy environments or for high-gain staccato use, the input gate with a hard gate a little later in the chain (my preference is after any dirt/compressors and before any amp models).

[BBD_123]

10 minutes ago, gunpointmetal said:

The "Noise Gate" in the dynamics FX section is more of a suppressor than an actual gate, similar the Boss NS-2.

 

That's certainly the impression I've now got from experimenting with it compared to the Hard Gate, which does appear to be a true noise gate.

[codamedia]

3 hours ago, gunpointmetal said:

The "Noise Gate" in the dynamics FX section is more of a suppressor than an actual gate, similar the Boss NS-2.

 

This is my experience as well. 

IMO.... only the HARD GATE is a real gate. The others should be treated as suppressors. 

 

There is a difference between a suppressor and a gate... each have their job. I much prefer a suppressor over a gate... but that's just an opinion :)

[gunpointmetal]

Just now, codamedia said:

 

This is my experience as well. 

IMO.... only the HARD GATE is a real gate. The others should be treated as suppressors. 

 

There is a difference between a suppressor and a gate... each have their job. I much prefer a suppressor over a gate... but that's just an opinion :)

They definitely both have their uses. I can't get the normal gate to do anything constructive if I put it in a high-gain patch without a hard gate following it somewhere. I really wish Line 6 would implement a gate the way Boss does (or at least used to, haven't used anything for an extended period since the GT-10), where you can essentially do the "X" pattern with a single gate like you can with the NS-2 so you can place the gate wherever in the chain, but set it so trigger off the input, or the input gate. That was a cool function because you could use a mild settings triggering off the input then have the gate right after the amp so you get the gate reacting to the input signal as far as opening/closing, but gating the high gain sound. 

[BBD_123]

Can't really comment further as I don't use a gate - suppressors are potentially tone suckers, I think, and I don't do ze crazy high gain tonez so I don't need a proper gate :-)

 

 

[lawrence_Arps]

 

3 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

This is my experience as well. 

IMO.... only the HARD GATE is a real gate. The others should be treated as suppressors. 

 

There is a difference between a suppressor and a gate... each have their job. I much prefer a suppressor over a gate... but that's just an opinion :)

When yu say "Suppressor" what do you mean?  Do mean a downwards expander? ie. it turns the signal down when the input is below the threshold as opposed to a gate which turns the signal off ???

 

To the best of my experience the input gate on the Helix is a gate...but I have the threshold set very low so that its only a tiny bit of background noise that gets tuened off when Im not playing - it is possibile that its only reducing the noise by some fixed amount - 12dB would effectively give silence...

 

and someone described "suppressors" as Tone suckers.  In what way? once the input passes the threshold the signal is not affected...???

[codamedia]

10 hours ago, lawrence_Arps said:

When yu say "Suppressor" what do you mean? 

 

Noise suppressor.... similar to a BOSS NS-2. 

They don't gate.... they calculate what the "noise" is and try to lower that without lowering the guitar signal. 

 

A GATE is either on or off... it denies all signal, or allows all signal (including noise) based on the threshold setting. 

 

10 hours ago, lawrence_Arps said:

and someone described "suppressors" as Tone suckers.  In what way? once the input passes the threshold the signal is not affected...???

 

You are right... once past a certain threshold ALL gets through so in theory they shouldn't such tone at that point. BUT - if set too aggressively, you will notice it when you play softly, or as a long chord hangs and fades out. At quiet settings is is trying to distinguish between the sound and the noise.... set to aggressively, it may mistake the two. What I like is that a chord can hang without hearing much noise.... I find that better than a hard cut off. That said - GATES certainly have their uses.