Actual Helix 3.0 news (kind of)

[donkelley]

2 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

They don't cause havoc on mobile phone screens. Heck, you can use some of them just fine under water.

Really, water drops?  Man, you've been VERY lucky.  I can't use my s7 (which is water proof) in the rain in any useful way; if I run and sweat on it, it no longer works right; my wife's google pixel got a bad case of ghost touches (like it was being touched) when a drop of water got on it and stayed that way on our outside table while it was playing music over bluetooth, and the drop sat there slowly moving for a few minutes while we ignored it until the track started changing by itself; and one of my daughters' iPhone 7s got completely unresponsive when she was trying to use it in light rain just yesterday while we were walking and she was trying to make a call.

Nearly all touch screens are capacitive (the kind you don't have to press - you just touch them to operate).  They work by recognizing a dielectric constant that is different than air by a certain defined amount.  They cannot work properly when wet, nor under water.

 

The only touch screens that work under water are, as far as I can understand the physics and electronics, resistive touch panels (the kind you have to press hard or use a stylus with).

 

So based on my experience, certainly if I ended up owning a touch screen floorboard, for me at least, it would fail miserably LoL :-)

[codamedia]

13 hours ago, donkelley said:

So based on my experience, certainly if I ended up owning a touch screen floorboard, for me at least, it would fail miserably LoL :-)

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

I'm not against the people getting their touch screen if they want it, but If the next generation includes one I certainly hope they still include an alternate option for navigation (joystick or buttons) and the ability to turn off the touch screen for those that don't get along with it. 

[zappazapper]

Just to be annoying...

 

3.0 wishlist: 

#1 - VST Wrapper block

 

*ducks*

[donkelley]

27 minutes ago, zappazapper said:

Just to be annoying...

 

3.0 wishlist: 

#1 - VST Wrapper block

 

*ducks*

Wouldn't THAT be sweet. But can you imagine the support nightmare?  "My Guitar rig plugin doesn't work.  A)  That's because you can't register it without a windows registry or a mac OSX filesystem."  "My favorite VST goes buzzzzzzzz.  Sorry, we can't support individual plugins."  "My $50 plugin I just bought for this won't do anything.  Sorry, we can't support individual plugins."  and so on....

 

And it is impossible anyway, I believe.  For one thing, UI wouldn't be supported, so how would it even work?  Remember it has to work on the device, not just in helix native....  They're compiled to run on x86 exclusively, for one basic point, so nada there.  Also the support libraries wouldn't exist.  Even if it could be configured on your usb connection with the UI on your computer, it still wouldn't work.

 

Seemed briefly like a good idea to me until I remembered the OS layer requirements of things like that. 

 

Would be cool if there was a way to do that, but it's not possible I'm 99% sure.

 

The only theoretical way to hear the result of a VST plugin in the helix might be to model a specific VST as it's running in a specific set of settings, and call that a new model in the helix.  But the helix can't model things at a user level - it has to be done manually by helix staff and adding into firmware for each and every model.

 

To do it at a user level, you'd need something that could reproduce a perfect copy of the sound alterations effected by anything you want with an input and an output. 

 

Like a Kemper.... which makes me think.... I bet people already do that with the kemper.

[zappazapper]

58 minutes ago, donkelley said:

And it is impossible anyway, I believe.  For one thing, UI wouldn't be supported, so how would it even work?  Remember it has to work on the device, not just in helix native....  They're compiled to run on x86 exclusively, for one basic point, so nada there.  Also the support libraries wouldn't exist.  Even if it could be configured on your usb connection with the UI on your computer, it still wouldn't work.

 

Seemed briefly like a good idea to me until I remembered the OS layer requirements of things like that. 

I'll start off by saying that I really was just joking, but...

 

In Reaper you can bypass a plugin's GUI and have everything on sliders. Not impossible. 

 

Also, there's a unit called the Muse Receptor that's a hardware VST host. Runs its own proprietary non-Windows based OS. Not impossible. 

 

But realistically, ya, can't see it happening, not only because of the obvious support hassles, but also because I can't see L6 being willing to allow users to use their competition's algorithms on their hardware.

[SaschaFranck]

5 hours ago, codamedia said:

I'm not against the people getting their touch screen if they want it, but If the next generation includes one I certainly hope they still include an alternate option for navigation (joystick or buttons) and the ability to turn off the touch screen for those that don't get along with it. 

 

Yeah well, even if I'd like a touch screen, I'd also expect alternative methods to select things to still be there.

Anyhow, it was all fine and dandy for me in case they supported mobile edting from tablets and phones. Heck, wouldn't even have to be wireless (even under Android, USB-OTG works just fine), so they could even add this to the current generation of Helix hardware.

 

5 hours ago, zappazapper said:

#1 - VST Wrapper block

 

Uhm. I wish I could use U-Hes MFM2 (*the* killer delay if there ever was one). But then, it's not exactly impossible, you can as well connect a cheap convertible laptop and use it via the Helix' interface. The downside being that it'd only work for typical mix effects (such as reverbs and delays) as for anything 100% wet (amps, drives, comps, whatever) the driver is just not good enough (to put it mildly). However, this is something I might even do go for one day. With a convertible, plenty of the usual "where to put the damn thing on stage?" issues aren't issues anymore as one could just use a plain tablet holder. Would as well allow you to use HX Edit instead of crawling on the floor, then there's great looper apps and what not. Quite tempting.

[donkelley]

4 hours ago, zappazapper said:

I'll start off by saying that I really was just joking, but...

 

In Reaper you can bypass a plugin's GUI and have everything on sliders. Not impossible. 

 

Also, there's a unit called the Muse Receptor that's a hardware VST host. Runs its own proprietary non-Windows based OS. Not impossible. 

 

But realistically, ya, can't see it happening, not only because of the obvious support hassles, but also because I can't see L6 being willing to allow users to use their competition's algorithms on their hardware.

yes I use reaper, I'm aware. I dismissed that before I answered because of my other points.  It seems theoretically possible, if not for the fact that vst plugins can't run on the helix architecture. 

 

yes I have owned a muse receptor - it actually runs a linux based os (red hat derivative, actually, which was a great OS back in the day).  It's a fully standard linux os but has as few extras as possible, of course, and it's own custom UI system.  They call it their own OS because it is as much their own OS as any linux variant is.  So it's as unique from red hat as debian is from ubuntu.  But yes, it's still a standard OS, and the plugins are not compiled to run under the architecture used by the helix - there's no way to make them run under it without rewriting and then cross compiling each plugin from the original source code.

 

but it was worth a shot, and yes I totally would love it also!

 

But just so ya know - the muse receptor isn't magic at all - it's great linux development and a solid PC custom built for it.

[zappazapper]

1 hour ago, donkelley said:

...there's no way to make them run under it without rewriting and then cross compiling each plugin from the original source code...

You clearly know more than I do about computer programming (I can do a mean blackjack game in QBASIC :P ), but it seems to me that it could operate much the same way that video game console emulators do, in that they reinterpret real-time or quickly recompile code directly extracted from game media, not original source code. 

 

Anyway, it's a moot point for reasons that have nothing to do with technology. It would be like admitting that the only way to get an edge on the competition is to use the competition's work. 

[HonestOpinion]

I know there's technical and quality hurdles to implementing plugins in a floor/rack modeler but other vendors can and are finding ways around them. In Neural's case by, at least at first, using only proprietary plugins. Touchscreens are clearly superior for certain kinds of operations and when combined with physical(knobs, switches) UI navigation you get the best of both worlds. The kinds of problems people are reporting with touchscreens seem a little anecdotal and hardly a deal-breaker. Wireless updates and wireless access to preset libraries and backup/restore seems like a no-brainer. Or, as has been said many times, at least a USB flash drive option. These debates are getting a little long in the tooth. Many of these ideas have been slapped down for years on the forum while other modeling companies have already successfully implemented them or are about to. Other companies probably keep an eye on this forum and other forums like it for ideas or to get a sense for what users would like to see in a next-gen modeler.  I know I would if I were in their place. Love my Helix but seems like a waste of breath to misconstrue the status quo as the limits of the technology.

[zappazapper]

I think L6 is too smart to put a touchscreen on a floor unit. If they think touch control is the next generation, they'll add Bluetooth support and make an app and you'll have the option to buy a Helix- (or whatever they call it) branded tablet or use the one you already have. And by linking it that way with a tablet you'll have all the wifi and flash support you need and the unit itself won't have to deal with the overhead. The unit should just do sound and in-performance control, and the tablet can expand in-performance control and do everything else. 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, HonestOpinion said:

These debates are getting a little long in the tooth

Hey HO (here we go -again),
 

You and I, and a great many contributors to this site are very well aware of this,  but bro “zappazapper” doesn’t do “research” about this sort of stuff.
 

If he had bothered to check out the video where Eric explains the history of the development of the Helix, maybe he would have been enlightened, but hey... I.can’t be bothered to let him know.

 

This is getting tedious - as ever!

[donkelley]

2 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Love my Helix but seems like a waste of breath to misconstrue the status quo as the limits of the technology.

I don't think it's the limit of the technology at all.

 

But I'd personally dislike a touchscreen on the device, which is what was being discussed.  But of course, if it can be disabled and you can still  navigate, then fine,

 it could be nice.  But it's hardly a deal breaker - it wasn't when I got my helix (not long ago actually), and I chose it over the touch screen competition for several reasons... one of which was the criticism of the touch screen in real life use by actual users of the device.

 

Mobile app?  YES!  I'd love that for some settings - I had it with a line6 amplifire 150 (which was total junk, bluetooh issues, restarting issues, firmware issues... too bad about that line of products and whoever did the actual building of them for line6... not up to par).... but when it worked, the amplifire 150 was super super cool.  the app is outstanding, and the way it worked with the amp made playing guitar REALLY FUN again, like a kid in a candy story sitting in the living room with my phone on the couch playing along to my favorite songs with their tones and messing with effects by tapping on my phone... it was awesome.

 

So if they learned from the amplifire tech, then they could do it right this time, treating the amplifire as an experiment to learn from, and integrate that into future helix type products.

 

BUT - it doesn't improve the device for playing live, working in a band, or in sound quality, so it really is just a nice to have... not a big deal to me.  If I want to do serious editing, I don't do it on the device itself anyhow, touch screen or not.

[SaschaFranck]

19 minutes ago, donkelley said:

BUT - it doesn't improve the device for playing live, working in a band, or in sound quality, so it really is just a nice to have...

 

I would totally disagree here. Being able to quickly access parameters would improve all those situations massively for me. And ultimately, it'd also improve sound quality because instead of going like "oh no, not that floor crawler thing again..." I'd simply adjust things to suit my needs.

[zappazapper]

26 minutes ago, datacommando said:

Hey HO (here we go -again),
 

You and I, and a great many contributors to this site are very well aware of this,  but bro “zappazapper” doesn’t do “research” about this sort of stuff.
 

If he had bothered to check out the video where Eric explains the history of the development of the Helix, maybe he would have been enlightened, but hey... I.can’t be bothered to let him know.

 

This is getting tedious - as ever!

So...  first...  ya I saw the video...  second...  ya, sorry, there wasn't much of a reason for me to be on the Helix board before I owned one...  and I know you think that means I should go back and read the entirety of this board and the one on Facebook and the one on TGP before I should be allowed to express an opinion but, I dunno, I guess it's not happening...  I really enjoy discussing things with people who are knowledgeable about things I'm interested, and I've enjoyed your insights as well when they've been on-topic, but I really didn't come here to do WORK, and I certainly didn't come here to offend people, so...  just say the word and I'll be happy to delete my account and just read what everybody has to say and not contribute at all...  I'm sure that's what Line6 wants, right? Just a board where the fan-boys have free reign and the rest of us know our place?

[datacommando]

6 minutes ago, zappazapper said:

I know you think

No, you have no idea what I think.
 

I was simply pointing out, as HonestOpinion had said:

 

“These debates are getting a little long in the tooth. Many of these ideas have been slapped down for years on the forum while other modeling companies have already successfully implemented them or are about to.” 
 

You don’t like that, and you have your opinion too, but you do know what they say about opinions...

 

 

 

[zappazapper]

I really don't know what your problem is. I'm just trying to participate in a discussion about music equipment. It's one thing if you don't think anything I'm saying is interesting or valuable, it's another to go at people like this. And you were doing it before I showed up, with other users. Is it too much to ask that if you disagree with something someone said that you can keep the criticisms on-topic instead of attacking people personally? I came here to learn and bounce ideas off of other people who have similar interests, not to argue or defend myself. Please don't talk to me anymore if you can't do so in a civil manner.

[HonestOpinion]

2 hours ago, zappazapper said:

I think L6 is too smart to put a touchscreen on a floor unit. If they think touch control is the next generation, they'll add Bluetooth support and make an app and you'll have the option to buy a Helix- (or whatever they call it) branded tablet or use the one you already have. And by linking it that way with a tablet you'll have all the wifi and flash support you need and the unit itself won't have to deal with the overhead. The unit should just do sound and in-performance control, and the tablet can expand in-performance control and do everything else. 

 

What you propose is also a perfectly valid approach. I do think its more about preference and implementation than "smartness" when it comes to a touchscreen. There's more than one way to "skin" a modeler. There are a certain percentage of users who would prefer everything be self-contained in the modeler to having to use a tablet. Having the tablet as an additional option is ideal IMHO. Not too jazzed yet about Bluetooth though. It has gotten faster but still has lag. Perfectly usable though depending on how it is applied.

[zappazapper]

1 minute ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Also a perfectly valid approach. I do think its more about preference and implementation than "smartness" when it comes to a touchscreen. There's more than one way to "skin" a modeler. There are a certain percentage of users who would prefer everything be self-contained in the modeler to having to use a tablet. Having the tablet as an additional option is ideal IMHO. Not too jazzed yet about Bluetooth though. It has gotten faster but still has lag. Perfectly usable though depending on how it is applied.

I just can't get my head around having a touch screen on the floor. Like, if it's just about being able to navigate faster through the menus, etc., then I don't think it's worth the extra cost. If it's about enhancing in-performance control, then it needs to be easily within reach of your hands, not on the floor. A purpose-built proprietary wireless external touch screen would be CRAZY expensive. So an app for the many commercially available, ubiquitous tablets would make the most economical sense for users, and so yes, you're limited to whatever wireless protocols are available in a typical tablet. Bluetooth or WIFI. I'm not any kind of IT expert but it seems to me that Bluetooth has far less overhead than WIFI, and like I said, you want the unit's power to be devoted to sound and control, not being a part of a global computer network, especially when you think about it, the unit doesn't need to deal with the internet that much - every few months there's an update, you might download a few presets off the net or from a friend, but other than that, nothing really. It doesn't need to know anything about the internet. The tablet already does all that so it can just be the middle-man for anything the unit needs from the internet.

[SaschaFranck]

Any kind of mobile editor could be realized already. Would have to be used with a USB cable, but that was it. Apparently it's nothing high on Line 6's "to perhaps do" list.

As far as touch screens for future devices go, the Headrush owners seem to love that aspect of their units. As would I.

[lou-kash]

5 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Would have to be used with a USB cable

 

Bluetooth dongle:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bluetooth+to+usb&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

Could Buetooth dongle support be added just via firmware update? (I'm no tech)

E.g. for Stomp you would then just need a USB type A to type B adapter.

[lou-kash]

10 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

There are a certain percentage of users who would prefer everything be self-contained in the modeler

 

Count me as one of them.

A few weeks ago while deciding which MIDI footswitch to get as an expansion to my HX Stomp, I went for DMC.micro exactly for that reason: it's self-contained and you can program it to your liking without having to use a computer (it has USB though which you can use to update firmware). Unlike MIDI Baby 3 which is only programmable via https://disasterareaamps.com/midibaby Thanks, but no, thanks!

[codamedia]

31 minutes ago, lou-kash said:

Could Buetooth dongle support be added just via firmware update? (I'm no tech)

E.g. for Stomp you would then just need a USB type A to type B adapter.

 

I highly doubt it.... 

That would require "usb host" capability which HX devices are not. The Helix family are peripherals that need to connect to a host. 

[igorkulik]

HELIX COMPACT

[JaH337]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:38 AM, zappazapper said:

Just to be annoying...

 

3.0 wishlist: 

#1 - VST Wrapper block

 

*ducks*

That would be awesome!

Here's one I put on ideascale that goes in that direction

~ guitar to midi, this opens it up when connected with computer to play any plugin instruments plus all the other things you can control with midi.

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Guitar-to-midi/987960-23508

[donkelley]

14 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I would totally disagree here. Being able to quickly access parameters would improve all those situations massively for me. And ultimately, it'd also improve sound quality because instead of going like "oh no, not that floor crawler thing again..." I'd simply adjust things to suit my needs.

How, by pulling out your phone, unlocking it, and then adjusting things? 

 

User Interface-wise, I'm personally not convinced that's preferable to pressing (or touching if you leave capacitive helix button control enabled) the button of the effect you want changed and turning the knobs below each param on the screen. 

 

However yes, bending down sucks though, so I'm with you on the floor crawling part.

 

 

[donkelley]

13 hours ago, zappazapper said:

I really don't know what your problem is. I'm just trying to participate in a discussion about music equipment. It's one thing if you don't think anything I'm saying is interesting or valuable, it's another to go at people like this. And you were doing it before I showed up, with other users. Is it too much to ask that if you disagree with something someone said that you can keep the criticisms on-topic instead of attacking people personally? I came here to learn and bounce ideas off of other people who have similar interests, not to argue or defend myself. Please don't talk to me anymore if you can't do so in a civil manner.

He does this - all ... the ... time ...

 

After talking with other musician over the past couple months about this, it turns out this forum has a bit of a reputation for this type of pointless badgering when someone asks a question, particularly a newer member.  However, now that I know that, I've been learning to laugh at those ridiculous posts when looking for helpful responses.

 

It's not you - it's him.  Try to remember that :-)

[donkelley]

8 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

Any kind of mobile editor could be realized already. Would have to be used with a USB cable, but that was it. Apparently it's nothing high on Line 6's "to perhaps do" list.

As far as touch screens for future devices go, the Headrush owners seem to love that aspect of their units. As would I.

 

The problem is that the device connecting to the helix would have to be the USB host, as others have mentioned here.  Helix doesn't support USB host protocol and I believe it's not something they can change on it now, based on my observations when working years ago at a company that developed USB host technology.  I could be wrong, but I think it's not possible to change the helix usb to a host mode.

 

And as far as I know, while some phones do support usb host mode, it's extremely limited in capability, and usb host mode requires features to be added on the device doing the hosting to support protocols before they can be seen from the helix (if the helix was connected to the phone or whatever).

 

app-wise it's a lot of work too, but doable I'm sure.   But USB host mode is one are I believe would not be possible to add without a hardware change in the helix in the future?  I mean, I hope I'm wrong, cuz that would be a cool stop gap for sure.

 

[donkelley]

13 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

What you propose is also a perfectly valid approach. I do think its more about preference and implementation than "smartness" when it comes to a touchscreen. There's more than one way to "skin" a modeler. There are a certain percentage of users who would prefer everything be self-contained in the modeler to having to use a tablet. Having the tablet as an additional option is ideal IMHO. Not too jazzed yet about Bluetooth though. It has gotten faster but still has lag. Perfectly usable though depending on how it is applied.

I prefer everything to be self contained - that's why I've always gone back to line6 over the years after moving to other platforms repeatedly until I was finally happy - now, with the helix.

 

The helix is the first floor modeler I've used that lets me create anything I want from it's built in user interface.  The ehx freeze effect I threw together (a speck buggy, but was proof of concept that turns out to work really well) was something I created on the device itself, not through the editor.  And it's complex... but you can do anything on the device, so that's pretty cool.

 

touch screens can be great - but not needed if the UI was designed to work without it, as is the case in the helix.  a Touch UI will require major changes to the helix os - and it could be great, but it coudl also just be... different.

 

But deep editing and having everything in the one device is why I got the helix, specifically, along with sound quality.

[lou-kash]

2 hours ago, codamedia said:

That would require "usb host" capability which HX devices are not.

 

I see, thanks.

[SaschaFranck]

4 hours ago, donkelley said:

How, by pulling out your phone, unlocking it, and then adjusting things? 

 

No. By having a tablet in always on mode on a music stand. Just as I'm doing right now for IEM mixer remote controls. After all, it's 2020 and these things are standard on all sorts of stages since years already.

 

4 hours ago, donkelley said:

User Interface-wise, I'm personally not convinced that's preferable to pressing (or touching if you leave capacitive helix button control enabled) the button of the effect you want changed and turning the knobs below each param on the screen. 

 

As you've mentioned yourself, bending down is no fun. And as far as the capacitive switches go, they're great but I'm constantly running out of them, so there's plenty of items I can't route to a switch anymore (I wish there were at least two switch assignment screens, even if they'd only serve the purpose of selecting things quicker). Add to this, that with more advanced blocks, you will also have to flip pages.

[zappazapper]

4 hours ago, donkelley said:

He does this - all ... the ... time ...

 

After talking with other musician over the past couple months about this, it turns out this forum has a bit of a reputation for this type of pointless badgering when someone asks a question, particularly a newer member.  However, now that I know that, I've been learning to laugh at those ridiculous posts when looking for helpful responses.

 

It's not you - it's him.  Try to remember that :-)

Years ago, when I got my X3L, I was on the old forum quite regularly. It went like this:

 

Me: "Hey, can I do *whatever*, and how would I do it?"

Forum: "Why would you want to do that? I don't do it that way. Stop doing that. Just do it how I do it."

 

I don't understand the motivation to comment when you don't have anything positive or helpful to add. I see lots of stuff on here that drives me nuts, like, "WHY CAN'T YOU FIGURE THIS OUT!! IT'S SO EASY!!", but I would never go at somebody and try to make them feel like they shouldn't be asking their questions or expressing their opinions or thinking out loud. I just don't participate in discussions I don't want to participate in. I don't know why anybody would spend any of their time picking fights on a guitar equipment support forum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[donkelley]

4 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

No. By having a tablet in always on mode on a music stand. Just as I'm doing right now for IEM mixer remote controls. After all, it's 2020 and these things are standard on all sorts of stages since years already.

 

 

As you've mentioned yourself, bending down is no fun. And as far as the capacitive switches go, they're great but I'm constantly running out of them, so there's plenty of items I can't route to a switch anymore (I wish there were at least two switch assignment screens, even if they'd only serve the purpose of selecting things quicker). Add to this, that with more advanced blocks, you will also have to flip pages.

RE: tablets:  ARE they standard on all sorts of stages for years already?  I wasn't aware of that... haven't experienced that as a norm at all, in fact, except by sound guys.   In a big band (as in jazz band) I was filling in on bass with last year, their drummer was the sound guy as well and used an iPad (tablet) to control his Presonus mixer remotely.  It was a great setup for sure, although it isn't something I normally come across with guitarists on stage.   Sound people?  yes.  Coffee shop shows?  yes.   On stage for a bar band, cover band, or touring band?  I haven't seen that yet... but maybe musicians are using stand based tablets now in live venues as a norm, and I just missed it somehow.  Things ARE changing fast, for sure.

 

As for the second point - yea I need to not bend down due to spine issues and eyesight issues.... it all makes editing hard in a band situation.  So yea I'm all about the tablet thing.  I just can't imagine it being that popular - but maybe it could be, I dunno.  However, ON the helix though I don't see the touch screen being that useful, which again is what was originally being discussed.  But on a hand held or mounted secondary device?  yea, I'd do it. It will take a different line6 device to support it I think, but that is something to look forward to in coming years for sure.  The UI on the helix is outstanding imho, once you learn a couple of very unintuitive things, and you can do all your editing without much challenge.... something that is very new to me, and I like it better than editing on fractal in the box by quite a bit.

 

Touch screen is fine and all, but I don't see it as better - just different.  I do understand how hardware limitations (lack of enough buttons) is annoying, and I also understand how a touch UI can be completely flexible in how it's designed and could, potentially, avoid the limitations of the hardware editing of the helix currently.  So fair enough - but I personally haven't encountered the limitations for editing with hardware, but I can imagine your interest in touch editing if you feel it will solve your issues with pagination requirements etc.  The thing is, the UI designers may or may not try to, or be able to, solve those things just by moving to touch.  Touch screen isn't the only way to remove pagination requirements in UI design, and touch screens don't inherently remove pagination requirements from the UI - but yes it CAN be a good move in the right direction.  Still, when I'm playing and reach down to edit something, I want a knob, not a touch screen... and that is a preference for that scenario, not a lack of openness to touch screen control.

[zappazapper]

1 hour ago, donkelley said:

RE: tablets:  ARE they standard on all sorts of stages for years already? 

Here in Toronto they're not uncommon, but not for controlling anything, mostly for lyrics or possibly charts. I've even seen them at blues jams, where you can literally HEAR the eyes of the cagey old blues veterans rolling.

[zappazapper]

but anyway...

 

#2 - Brain Wave Analyzer

 

...because who needs a tablet even? I just wanna stand on the stage with a beer in my hand and have all the crazy sounds in my head come out of my amp, unrelated to the fact that I can't actually play any of it...

[SaschaFranck]

11 hours ago, donkelley said:

On stage for a bar band, cover band, or touring band?  I haven't seen that yet...

 

I have been using a tablet or a smartphone as an IEM remote mixer regularly (roughly as in "on almost every other gig that option is available") for around 5 years by now. On both my tablet and phone, the most relevant apps are already installed, so all it takes is a login and *boom*, there we go. Most FOH dudes are happy, too, as they don't have to take care of monitoring wishes anymore. I even use these things outside of the IEM realm, it's just too comfortable to pass on.
And because I'm already accustomed to these things, I'm pretty sure people would just love it to go along with their their modelers.

[donkelley]

9 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

I have been using a tablet or a smartphone as an IEM remote mixer regularly (roughly as in "on almost every other gig that option is available") for around 5 years by now. On both my tablet and phone, the most relevant apps are already installed, so all it takes is a login and *boom*, there we go. Most FOH dudes are happy, too, as they don't have to take care of monitoring wishes anymore. I even use these things outside of the IEM realm, it's just too comfortable to pass on.
And because I'm already accustomed to these things, I'm pretty sure people would just love it to go along with their their modelers.

Cool, yea it's great, for sure.  I come from a big city but have lived in a smaller town for the past couple decades... things are likely a little different for me now LoL.

 

remote mixing is one thing though - and takes someone with live sound mixing skills (not all that comon).  But having a guitarist and/or bassist have their own tablet for their owns sounds... I can just see it now... it'll look more and more like some bizarre scifi movie.

 

and I'd love to see things like that, personally!  I just will be very surprised to see bands and venues with that going on very much.  Still my biggest concern is knocking over the stand with the tablet attached... just because I often move around a lot when I play, so it's a hazard that scares me.

 

With the drummer I worked with, he kept the tablet in his duffel bag next to his kit in a safe place, and would put it on a stool beside him for a track or two in soundcheck but would leave it put away the rest of the time... but it's very possible he didn't have a good stand for his iPad that would work well.

 

Interesting ideas in this thread - will be fun to watch, and eventually take part, in these changes over the coming years!

[hideout]

On 10/20/2020 at 6:38 AM, zappazapper said:

Just to be annoying...

 

3.0 wishlist: 

#1 - VST Wrapper block

 

*ducks*

I think what you're looking for is this

https://www.museresearch.com/products/receptorPix.php

[zappazapper]

18 minutes ago, hideout said:

I think what you're looking for is this

https://www.museresearch.com/products/receptorPix.php

I thought about it. My main point of loyalty with L6 is Variax. I don't use my Variax much but I wouldn't use it at all if I couldn't use it with VDI. So it's gonna be L6 every time. 

 

Really it was just a joke. Yes, it would be a fantastic tool to have at one's disposal but I know the world in which I live and I manage my expectations accordingly. I've done some time researching using a laptop and a MIDI controller and a VST host like Bloxpander (worth checking out if you've never heard of it) but there was a very steep learning curve with that approach, not to mention all the idiosyncrasies that general-use computers bring with them, plus there was a weird built-in crossfade between snapshots (yes, Bloxpander has snapshots too) that turned me off of the whole idea. At the end of the day, for what I do, Helix checked off enough of the high priority items for me, and the things it doesn't do, like load VSTs, are just things I have to work around. No system is PREFECT, you just have to decide which one is closest to perfect for you. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, SaschaFranck said:

 

I have been using a tablet or a smartphone as an IEM remote mixer regularly (roughly as in "on almost every other gig that option is available") for around 5 years by now. On both my tablet and phone, the most relevant apps are already installed, so all it takes is a login and *boom*, there we go. Most FOH dudes are happy, too, as they don't have to take care of monitoring wishes anymore. I even use these things outside of the IEM realm, it's just too comfortable to pass on.
And because I'm already accustomed to these things, I'm pretty sure people would just love it to go along with their their modelers.

 

My experience has been similar and you are probably already familiar with most of my observations here. Many gigs I have played for years now have been using WIFI connected iPad and/or Android tablets to control mixing boards, various music related apps, and smart powered speaker systems. They are an awesome tool for mixing FOH as well as controlling monitor/IEM mixes. They also come in for a multitude of other uses including pumping in pre-recorded music during a break or changing parameters on smart powered speakers.

 

They tend to work better if you take care to use a WIFI channel that doesn't have too much interference, particularly in venues where there are a lot of mobile phones and/or competing WIFI traffic and networks.  Venues in populous urban locations are particularly likely to have many wireless networks overlapping in a small area. Often you can just use the default channel though. Basic security e.g. WEP or WPA(2), should always be set up on the router so audience members' mobile phones don't inadvertently and automatically connect and piggyback on your mixer's WIFI network.

 

I have found tablets to be subject to occasional disconnect issues but they usually reconnect easily and many sound engineers also have a wired Ethernet solution to a laptop as an additional optional control surface.  Adding any decent quality router to substitute for the mixer's built-in router also often helps with range and more consistent connectivity. Tablets allow the soundman, assistant, or musician to walk anywhere in the venue and dial in the sound remotely from the far corners of the house. Ethernet/WIFI control of the board often replaces the necessity for running a bulky cable snake out into the audience with a much less obtrusive Ethernet cable and/or a tablet depending on the venue and equipment used. There are plenty of excellent tablet holders available to attach to a mic stand for smaller or singer/songwriter gigs if you need to operate the mix or other apps/equipment from onstage.

 

Tablets have become a common appendage for digital boards used from small club gigs and even some larger venues.  At least in these parts.  I still love the sound and punch of a good quality old analog sound system as well as physical knobs, switches, and faders, but the ability to add the features, convenience, portability, and ability to roam and optimize the sound in more areas of the house provided by tablets connected to digital boards and other peripherals is hard to beat. 

[JaH337]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:53 AM, igorkulik said:

HELIX COMPACT

Nice!   Is that an iPad?  What's the switching system?