Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

[Charlie_Watt]

Flatwounds are way too dull IMO.  They eliminate the squeak sounds though.  They are nowhere near bright enough.  I prefer the coated strings from Elixir.  They also reduce the squeak but they are still bright enough.

[onkelfeix]

I currently have Elixir Nanowebs, great with the magnetics but terrible with the piezos. If I ever make it to start a FearFactory coverband and still use my JTV89f..... I could call that band PlingFactory :)

 

Edit: Now sending a huge mail to my retailer, in hope the come up with suggestions. 

[JTSC777]

Reading all of this thread has me wondering why my old Varix 500 does not do any of this stuff. I put a set of 10s on it when I got it.Set it up a little and have been playing the hell out of it ever since. No plinks/plunks/clanks of any kind. I play it with a Dunlop jazz pick and with fingers.Through FRFR/HD500 rigs and tube amps. Something is very different with some of these JTVs.

[Charlie_Watt]

My JTV69S doesn't do this at all either.

[cruisinon2]

My JTV69S doesn't do this at all either.

Some of them work, some don't. That much is clear. Getting an answer as to why, not so much.

 

"Raise the action by 8 femto-meters" is about as much of a solution as is ever likely to be offered.

[MiroslavKloud]

A pity that I can not explore some functional JTV. It cannot be difficult to find what is different.

In the Line6 they have this opportunity. I am 100% convinced that they know all details. But they not admit. Why?

[snhirsch]

I suspect your pinging noises result from some combination of playing style, piezo pickup production variation and mechanical "slop" in the bridge assembly.  Not saying there's anything wrong with your playing style, just that no two players are going to have the same pick / finger attack.

[MiroslavKloud]

Video  1:55 - 2:10

[Charlie_Watt]

After hearing the audio here of the "plink" I tried to recreate that with my JTV69S.  Fortunately, no luck at all.  My 6th string sounds fine on both mags and models.  I don't palm mute much but I tried to duplicate the sounds on the video.  I agree that the sounds on that video are terrible.  Something is wrong with that guitar and Line6 should do something about it.  Sounds like they pretend that it is fine since they don't know how to fix it anyway.

[onkelfeix]

My flatwounds arrived today. Just swapped  the E6 string to not rise the overall string tension too much.

As expected the "plink" went almost completely away. But as Charlie already said, the sound suffers significiantly.

Sounds a bit like "Tone at 0%" . In comparison to before I don't hear any differences between "Tone 100%" and "Tone 0%" on the E6 string now. 

[MiroslavKloud]

My 6th string sounds fine on both mags and models. 

Have you tried the test 0.35 - 0.40 (1.25 - 1.40) with magnetic pickup or unplugged?

Do you hear the tone G # - 1660Hz?

And on the string A5 1900Hz (B^b - B )?

[clay-man]

https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

 

That's the palm muted version. 

 

I'm not sure if I brought this up with you before, but have to ever tried dampening/muting any string that's left hanging in midair on the bridge? I'm not familiar with the 59, but if there's any string between the saddle and the bridge piece, that can make sympathetic noise to the piezos.

 

Putting pieces of masking tape around the string between the bridge and the saddle gets rid of the noise.

 

You could always give that a try.

[MiroslavKloud]

Between the saddle and the bridge is only a few millimeters strings. When playing it is muted via palm.

[clay-man]

Between the saddle and the bridge is only a few millimeters strings. When playing it is muted via palm.

 

Doesn't matter. It will travel to it via vibration and make it cause a sound which is picked up by the piezos.

[MiroslavKloud]

This sound (longitudinal wave) arises between the saddle and the zero fret, between the saddle and the first fret, between .....

The important question is not: why some JTV doing this? 

The important question is: why some JTV do not make this.

 

Calleb Elling from L.R.Baggs said:

"What I can say, is that the "clank tone" as it is commonly defined, is, in fact, part of every Piezo bridge pickup."

[clay-man]

the biggest problem is why it happens on some guitars and not all or none.

[MiroslavKloud]

The big problem is why it happens on E6 string and not A5.

Line 6 knows the answer.

[psarkissian]

Yes, and it was given. Whether you choose to accept it,... is up to you.

 

And as the JTV tech, I've made my recommendations. Now, it's matter of

choosing to take or not take those recommendations.

[cruisinon2]

Whew! At least that's settled, lol. Plink, plank...plunk. ;)

[MiroslavKloud]

What should I accept? Nothing, nothing, or nothing?

[MiroslavKloud]

 

Support Tickets

[psarkissian]

Re-writing the program for you defeats the purpose of Modeling. So

they aren't going to do that. And I've given my advice on the mechanical

aspects, et al.

 

Equaliser in the floor effects, you can notch out the desired frequency.

Workbench HD, you can adjust parameters to your liking.

 

Like any guitar,you start with what it is then adjust the settings to

where you want it.

 

Equaliser and Workbench HD, both are tools to make use of.

 

 

I can't force you to take my advice,... whether you do is up to you.

 

[MiroslavKloud]

"Re-writing the program for you defeats the purpose of Modeling. So they aren't going to do that."

- You should re-write the program for the string A5. Contains an error, which defeats the purpose of modeling.

 

"And I've given my advice on the mechanical aspects, et al."

- 0.1mm

 

"Equaliser in the floor effects, you can notch out the desired frequency."

- I can not. This affects all strings.

 

"Workbench HD, you can adjust parameters to your liking."

- I can not. Workbench HD does not contain a parametric EQ.

[onkelfeix]

I had one thing come into my mind today.....   if we had the chance to have a string-independent tone knob control that could at least help us tweak the settings. 

You can edit string tuning, volume, pitch, mix, blending etc etc.  but this possibility is simply missing  here.  Could be a game changer, what do you think guys?

[cruisinon2]

I had one thing come into my mind today..... if we had the chance to have a string-independent tone knob control that could at least help us tweak the settings.

You can edit string tuning, volume, pitch, mix, blending etc etc. but this possibility is simply missing here. Could be a game changer, what do you think guys?

If they could build it into Workbench, fine...but I don't want another 6 knobs on the guitar. ;)

[onkelfeix]

Yeah this would be confusing :)

[Triryche]

I had one thing come into my mind today.....   if we had the chance to have a string-independent tone knob control that could at least help us tweak the settings. 

You can edit string tuning, volume, pitch, mix, blending etc etc.  but this possibility is simply missing  here.  Could be a game changer, what do you think guys?

 

Yes, that could possibly be a game changer, but where I see the issue is trying to write code that addresses the extraneous vibrations that the modeling is exaggerating.

I would name the parameter (affectionately)  Plink Enhancer, but that's just me.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

kudos to MiroslavKloud for the extra effort to provide extra data.

 

I was contemplating uploading a video clearing demonstrating the offending plink sound, then slowly zooming out showing I am playing an acoustic electric with one piezo element for all 6 strings (by the way the plink is usually most pronounce on the A and D strings on this particular guitar), but figured that would translate as me being an arse/ Line6 fanboy.

 

I have a JTV-89F, I can play a given JTV model thru several different set-ups/effect chains vs straight mags...and without any extra E-Qing, you would be hard pressed to to "hear" the extra plink,, depending on the actually set-up.

 

My viewpoint:

Hi-Gain + Digitally Modeling profoundly exaggerates everything (good AND bad).

[clay-man]

The whole dial in a proper tone is not a solution if the root tone is broken in the first place.

 

Come on guys.

If he's having that plink crap on his guitar, it's a serious problem, and putting a high cut filter is going to muddy his whole signal.

 

The solution is finding the actual cause and getting rid of it, not sidestepping it and making a pseudo-solution.

 

You can't advertise your product like that and then expect people to spend 1k on it, then shrug of such a defect such as that. It's like buying a car then finding out there's a hole in the gas line but they don't know where the gas line is.

[MiroslavKloud]

Clay-man, Well said!

 

Triryche,

great idea! But not only for the Variax. Plink Enhancer for all guitars. For all blues players! (As for the the Model itself is from a vintage 59 Strat. I've had this talk with the programmer. Yes, it's going to have a bit more something about it that unfortunately Miroslav doesn't like. Popular with blues players, but not with metal players (seems to be the pattern). So yes, that particular Strat is supposed to have that kind of Low-E sound.)

 

I like Line6. They've done a lot of great work. But "plink" I will not forgive them.

I spent a lot of time on this and offends me read: "So yes, that particular Strat is supposed to have that kind of Low-E sound."

 

Palm muting is a big weakness of Variax. I do not insist on correcting - I believe that they done the maximum.

Electronics makes a hissing - it's annoying, but I do not insist on a repair - it's hardware problem - poor quality electronic components.

 

But I insist on solving the problem with the string E6, because this can be resolved.

 

 

[ZenBalancer]

I noticed the same issue slightly on my JTV-89F as well, but not on as many Models/Pathes as others.

I also noticed that I'm not bothered by it. Not to make light of the relative pains (to the point of maybe uber frustrations) of the most affected.

However, I also noticed that playing with different picks (hard & soft) "brings the issue out in different lights".

But the most that I notice, is playing with my thumb while palm muting, brings a clear contrast when the issue isn't as bad as with a pick. Although that's only for testing purposes only, at least I found that playing fingerstyle in combination with palm muting (same hand) isn't the most ergonomic nor comfortable thing in the world.

To be on the Evil side; I'm glad I'm not alone with the issue  :lol:  B)

But it doesn't bother me, since I've a lot of other things to learn with it rather than focusing on palm muting riffs etc..

I've not "touched" the relevant mechanical parts, other than string height (haven't shimmed any saddle yet), nor have restringed yet.

I'm glad I tested it before restringing with Pure Nickle Fender Regulars (I want to maximize frets-lifespan) instead of the Nickle Wounded one shipped with it. I know there are some good experiences with both, so I might as well get used to the Pure Nickel (same gauge: 10-46).

I'm expecting the issue will either be the same or get worse, if it's indeed an unavoidable mechanical issue that the FW 'shouldn't' correct for, 'because' not everyone has the issue. I'm curious that if the JTVs (dual core processors, from what I understand, thus compatible with HX) get the HX FW (fingers crossed :)), how things will be like then in this regard in terms of undocumented and/or 'unadvertised' difference/improvements in the Modelling (btw it's still a Modeller, it models Profiled guitars, the guitars don't profile other guitars. There seems to have been a debate about whether it's correct to call these Modelling guitars; I vote yes. Don't mind my last second sidetracking; please continue the.. war on (mis-)understanding(s)? Or is it misidentification? A very subtle war; or maybe not so subtle :ph34r: ). Had to add some noise to the debate  ^_^

 

EDIT: 'grammar'.

 

EDIT2: Although there is a non-zero-chance (based on blind possbility) that somehow "both of you" are right, but until such a notion is proven beyond doubt, I'll reitterate:

 

 

-- from back at page 7

Edited November 8, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[cruisinon2]

(I want to maximize frets-lifespan)

Go stainless, and you'll never go back. I have only 2 guitars left to convert...they're practically indestructible, you'll wear out before they do. Bending strings is effortless. I should have done it years ago.

[ZenBalancer]

Go stainless, and you'll never go back. I have only 2 guitars left to convert...they're practically indestructible, you'll wear out before they do. Bending strings is effortless. I should have done it years ago.

You mean replacing th frets with stainless steel? That was my intention if the current ones wearout over the years (hobbyist), but I thought pure nickle strings would be gentle also bending easily. I'm not sure what the original frets are composed of. I have the sense our sentences have led to misinterpretation. Also nickle corrodes much less as well, so lifespan of the string itself even with heavy bending should be great. Do you have experince with pure nickle? Having hijacked the thead, I might as well get something out of it. :D

[cruisinon2]

You mean replacing th frets with stainless steel? That was my intention if the current ones wearout over the years (hobbyist), but I thought pure nickle strings would be gentle also bending easily. I'm not sure what the original frets are composed of. I have the sense our sentences have led to misinterpretation. Also nickle corrodes much less as well, so lifespan of the string itself even with heavy bending should be great. Do you have experince with pure nickle? Having hijacked the thead, I might as well get something out of it. :D

Yes, I meant stainless frets. One of the best moves I could have made.

 

I've never used pure nickel strings, so I can't offer you any info there. But I do know that most strings out there are a steel core with nickel winding, and generally nickel plating on the plain strings, so I don't know if you're gonna notice any difference as far as corrosion is concerned. There are plain steel sets out there with no nickel anywhere...but unless that's what you've got, whatever your using likely has nickel on the outside already anyway.

[ZenBalancer]

Yes, I meant stainless frets. One of the best moves I could have made.

I've never used pure nickel strings, so I can't offer you any info there. But I do know that most strings out there are a steel core with nickel winding, and generally nickel plating on the plain strings, so I don't know if you're gonna notice any difference as far as corrosion is concerned. There are plain steel sets out there with no nickel anywhere...but unless that's what you've got, whatever your using likely has nickel on the outside already anyway.

The reason I was uncertain about ur feedback, is because restringing a JTV-89F is something I can do myself, replacing frets isn't and is overkill for a new one that is yet to wearout. And if the string core isn't nickle, it will wearout the frets sooner than pure nickle, I think. Othrwise it's akin to a steel basebal bat with a thin coating of nickle, hitting some metal bal over and over will wearout the outer nickle, while pure nickle there is more nickle where that came frome. Of course I will keep ur cofirming tip in mind for the future. That analogy is btw pure torture on evey hit.. Couldn't think of another one.

[cruisinon2]

The reason I was uncertain about ur feedback, is because restringing a JTV-89F is something I can do myself, replacing frets isn't and is overkill for a new one that is yet to wearout. And if the string core isn't nickle, it will wearout the frets sooner than pure nickle, I think. Othrwise it's akin to a steel basebal bat with a thin coating of nickle, hitting some metal bal over and over will wearout the outer nickle, while pure nickle there is more nickle where that came frome. Of course I will keep ur cofirming tip in mind for the future. That analogy is btw pure torture on evey hit.. Couldn't think of another one.

Here's how I see it...with standard frets, wear is inevitable. Yes, it might take considerable time before complete re-fret is necessary, and you can usually grind and polish a couple of times before there's not enough meat left to re-crown them. But replacement cannot be avoided forever, and once I discovered just how resistant to wear the stainless frets are, the decision to re-fret all my guitars was a no-brainer. The money would eventually be spent anyway. My first set of stainless frets is about 2 years old now, on a guitar that sees daily use with heavy guage strings (.11-.50, in standard tuning)...and there's not a mark on them.

 

The ease of bending has less to do with the composition of the strings themselves, than it does with how smooth a surface they're being dragged across...it's an enormous difference. Standard frets feel like sandpaper to me now. I never bothered to investigate it all these years because I had assumed that there couldn't be such a glaring difference, but I was VERY wrong, lol.

[ZenBalancer]

Here's how I see it...with standard frets, wear is inevitable. Yes, it might take considerable time before complete re-fret is necessary, and you can usually grind and polish a couple of times before there's not enough meat left to re-crown them. But replacement cannot be avoided forever, and once I discovered just how resistant to wear the stainless frets are, the decision to re-fret all my guitars was a no-brainer. The money would eventually be spent anyway. My first set of stainless frets is about 2 years old now, on a guitar that sees daily use with heavy guage strings (.11-.50, in standard tuning)...and there's not a mark on them.

The ease of bending has less to do with the composition of the strings themselves, than it does with how smooth a surface they're being dragged across...it's an enormous difference. Standard frets feel like sandpaper to me now. I never bothered to investigate it all these years because I had assumed that there couldn't be such a glaring difference, but I was VERY wrong, lol.

Certainly helpful clarification. How much did one guitar refretting cost you?

May I assume one of your refretted guitars is a wornout JTV? How long did it take for its orginal frets to wearout? Under which (gauge) strings? Altough we're off-topic for a while, since such - even though mchanical - changes shouldn't effect this issue at all.

[cruisinon2]

Certainly helpful clarification. How much did one guitar refretting cost you?

May I assume one of your refretted guitars is a wornout JTV? How long did it take for its orginal frets to wearout? Under which (gauge) strings? Altough we're off-topic for a while, since such - even though mchanical - changes shouldn't effect this issue at all.

Cost is hard to say. I'm in suburban NY...air costs money here. It's really just a labor intensive job, materials are negligible. It will also vary considerably depending on who's doing the work. If they're good at what they do, they're gonna be more expensive. Don't look for bargains...I've seen fret jobs completely butchered by guys who had no idea what they were doing.

 

The neck in question is a factor too...bound necks are more difficult to work with, and typically cost more to re-fret than un-bound ones. The stainless frets are also more work to level and crown. Expect to pay $250-$300 at least, I'd say.

 

Now if you're looking to replace the neck on the JTV entirely, Warmoth offers the stainless frets as an option for only a $20 up-charge...don't know how they manage that, but that's how they do it. So you could conceivably get a whole new neck for what it would cost you to re-fret an existing one...life is weird.

 

And no, I haven't done the JTV yet...it gets a lot of use these days, and I'm trying to have only one axe out of commission at a time. I've already had a G&P on the JTV once, after about 18 months of playing. Really just depends on how much you play, and if you really dig into the strings...it can vary a lot.

[MiroslavKloud]

End? Not yet.

 

 

(read from the bottom up)

[clay-man]

EQing the pinging noises is not an acceptable answer.

 

Here's how I see it: 

If others don't have the problem with the guitar, neither should you. 

It's doing something it's not intended to do, therefor it should be fixed.

 

EQing out the sound defeats the products and makes you have to basically muddy your tone so badly that the modeling feature basically becomes useless. If you have to EQ out a nuance that strong in the signal, it's going to kill everything off on the model, so what's the point of having the guitar in the first place?

 

 

 

I must ask though, did you ever try what I told you do to?

[cruisinon2]

Just raise the action by a house fly's nose hair...it'll fix everything. This isn't your father's cousin's step-brother's college roommate's guitar...