Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

[snhirsch]

 I am an expert guitar synthesizer player with over 30 years of pro use of that technology in the field and studio. My technique is cleaner and more accurate than yours very likely is.

 

Based on Toby's videos (linked from VGuitar Forums), I would have to concur with that statement.  Line6 does not want to be alienating players of this caliber.

[ZenBalancer]

I'll suggest something "outlandish"; it involves one of the "victims", "sacrificing" their guitar which is afflicted with this problem.

 

The most vivid argument that the main Line 6 Staff on this thread relayed, directly and also essentially in so many other words, is that "THEY" don't have access to a "RELEVANT" guitar to troubleshoot and even if necessary to debug the problem. Don't jump to conlusion just yet assuming what I intend is clear, because I don't think so yet.

 

When someone sends their afflicted guitar to a Line 6 service center, the service center is not offered a guitar for "RESEARCH", they're offered a guitar for repair. If they follow their protocol and training, as far as I can tell all they can most do in the end is replace components if nothing helps, or if it's not clear what the user is experiencing, at worst sending it back without any change, not even in replaced hw (which doesn't matter if it wouldn't fix the issue anyway).

 

A user counter-argument is that the issue is frequencies which are present in any string 6 (other strings too?) of any guitar; the argument for whether pick scraping or even technique related or not, is not relevant atm. Any other guitar isn't the issue here. It's a Variax with sensitive piezos at least (not the 700, but the later ones at some point), with this specific issue, is the most relevant guitar. Because Line 6 has enough Variaxes that don't have this issue (as other users that pilled on), in fact according to their feedback, that's all that Line 6 has! Perfect Variaxes, in respect to not having this issue. And Yamaha aquired Line 6, they're not Line 6 experts. And if Line 6 internal experts can't memo all Support Engineering Staff that the problem can be solved by firmware, then challenging the Staff isn't going to change that.

 

Now if the successfull, financially abled, guitarist who abhores not being able to palm mute without feeling sickened by the situation especially after this thread, and who has alternates at their disposal, if such a person would only "sacrifice" their guitar for "research", then everyone with this issue might be helped, including the bold person who dared to do so. The deal should be, the user sends the proven (video or it didn't happen) to be afflicted guitar directly to this specific Staff member in USA, for an unlimited amount of time, until the guitar is fixed with a solution appliable by everyone in need for it. Whatever Line 6 comes up with, any speculations or "knowing" about that currently is irrelevant at such a stalemate, and a push to buildup pressure with brute force against Line 6 reputation by everyone that "matters in the industry", lots of generously buying customers or even combined with famed ones, isn't really a form of collaboration. The pressure would have been a lot higher if it were a huge problem to a lot more than now, and it would still not have provided the right "research" team a relevant guitar for as long as necessarry. The world isn't perfect, and sometimes one has to compromise and work within the confines of the statues quo even as a consumer, to be able to change the status quo, as long as we're not talking about human rights violations. Seperate from the latter: at least if none of us is a genious of such caliber to be able to rival Line 6 in the guitar Modelling Arena. I'm going to assume that to be not the case for the forseeable future.

 

Where does an afflicted guitar go, when you send it back to the retailer for money back, within return period, or for a replacement? Aren't they sold as alternative stock because they were returned? Are the ever returned to Line 6 in such a case? And does the service center ever send one of the afflicted guitars back to central for research? Diagnosing such a controversial problem by remote troubleshooting with words, audio and videos, is evidently not getting the issue to move forward towards a solution that doesn't involve abandoning the "modern models" Line 6 Variax until further notice.

 

Now maybe Line 6 should have made the deal themselves, with their own innitiative (if they haven't), with a user that can miss their afflicted one, for an undetermined amount of time. Because the replacement offerings could go on forever; I stopped at 6th for different reasons and didn't care that this issue was present on the 6th one while not sure how many of the previous ones had it too, because I was testing other things, and have a lot to learn anyway.

 

Understanding that there are trade secrets involved, should not be fueling the devide by antagonism, intellectual, musical knowledge and/or experience chicken-games.

 

The question should be, imo, who from the relevant user-pool is the real hero that will make that deal with the Staff that promisses to "not stop researching that specific guitar" with everyone that can help over there, until the problem is revealed beyond any doubt by Line 6 in a way that all of us benefit from and this thread can "die in peace"! Again the heroic user proves with a video, then "gives up" the guitar. Then that Line 6 Staff at the receiving-end will have to upload a video proving that particular guitar had the problem when received, issue was reproduced, and when finally all said and done, issue resolved, and share the fix with us all.

 

Not sending back the guitar to a random awesome certified god damned service center. Not for such an issue.

 

Edits: clarity.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ZenBalancer

[MiroslavKloud]

OK. My Variax is available with this condition: Line 6 provide and pay transport there and back.
But I am convinced that Line 6 knows the full details of the problem.

A user counter-argument is that the issue is frequencies which are present in any (string 6, or others too?) ...

 

I am afraid that my description of this phenomenon is incomprehensible. I can not explain it better. Just, any guitar player, any guitar, ball of finger and gently sliding on the string.
In the video - start playing at 0:36 second and at 0:39 ending.

You must hear a tone that is independent of the string tension (turning the tuning peg has no effect). But it is dependent of the length of string. Also is independent of the speed of sliding. This happens on all the strings.
And compare this tone with plink.

 

If someone understands and hears this tone on your guitar, please write an explanation for others.

Then that Line 6 Staff at the receiving end will have to upload a video proving that particular guitar had the problem when received, issue reproduced...

 

This is the problematic part. They will be simply upload a video in which is not plink.

[ZenBalancer]

OK. My Variax is available with this condition: Line 6 provide and pay transport there and back.

But I am convinced that Line 6 knows the full details of the problem.

 

This is the problematic part. They will be simply upload a video in which is not plink.

Your knowledge and experience not withstanding, try to understand that such statements are perhaps equally insulting to Line 6 Staff whom are doing their job! Knowingly or unkowingly. Again antagonism as a form of pressure is not helping your case. Like a forum moderator elsewhere once told me, that he repsonded on a weekend to the accusations I brought forward, he made clear that he responded despite my emotional rant back then against the Pulse team (not a music prduct, and name changed), not inspite of from what I remember, and definitly not because of it. I could have handled the situation betterhan I did. He gave me strong reasons to argree with their dedication to their product, and the time still needed in theevelopment process.

 

I thought about your concern, and even though it made sense in more than one way, I eventually realized it only makes sense for the "victims" to be sceptical, not Line 6 about themselves. But I also thought of the following, which might change your mind as well.

 

If Line 6 can palm mute without causing the plink, with your guitar which is proven with your video that it has the plink in almost all piezo dependent models, but not mags; then Line 6 would be able to prove with a video deonstrating with all effected Models on your guitar, that there exists a very specific playing technique that prevents the plink; hypothetcal, based on the proposed possibility that Line 6 will be able upload a vid proving your guitar works fine. The only way otherwise that would be possible is if they fix it (aside admittng the issue or not; that's besides this specific point), OR they cheat the demonstration with playbacking or some fancy post-production EQ. If they EQ a patch as the workaround without telling so, everyone agrees it would muffle all other strings. All these cheating possibilities are far fetched perhaps, and outragious for Line 6 to be seen as, but it's only meant for the sake of a good outcome of the argument.

 

Whether a special playing technique, or special Model or Multieffects Patch, or they can actually reproduce the problem (have to; for them to need to apply a workaround), either way they will have to tell the truth about their findings with your guitar, because the argument until now was the Active Forum Support Engineering Staff can't reproduce the issue! The right team will have access to a relevant guitar. The effected users are not complaining about something that they can workaround acceptably; that much shou be already clear to Line 6 by now. Using an alternate guitar, is still a workaround, otherwise the users would not have bought a Variax to begin with to be able to do all it can.

 

So I disagree about what the prpblematic part is. I think that now a relevant iser, an owner of an afficted guitar, has volunteered conditonally also for shipping costs, the next tough part that remain is convincing Line 6 to take the deal. This specifi deal or the general deal aside shipping costs.

 

Now is the time for Idea Scale. I feel that this forum should be used to establish some pre-consensus about an issue, and about the specifca of an idea in that regard (pre-elections), and that I finally understand thanks to Staff, that Idea Scale is also a way to reach the Team's attention widely in the open (not incdentally here or only one most active Staff), so using Idea Scale for the actual election. But since this is different than running a country, lets say we users are not registered voters or that our stock shares are non-voting rights, but our votes are a part of public opinion for or against an idea. That overview serves the true registered voters at Line 6, or the shareholders with voting rights, to go for the idea, defer it, modify it, or regect it completly.

 

Since you stepped forward with your condition, you might want to Idea Scale support from others that are effected, showing how many have the plink and are dependent on Line 6 taking the deal and honoring it.

 

A different deal from someone with more money in their pocket, could sweeten the deal if necessarry and offer to take on shipping costs, and either reuse the Idea Scale entru or clarify specifics in a new entry.

 

As a disclaimer, I refer to such a person as a hero, also to point out that I'm not responsible for the outcome. I'm only responsible for what I guarentee, which I don't here; I'm not in a position to garentee anything relevant here. This is a brainstorm with everything I read here, which isn't much, but is enough for me to get "a gist", and suggest "another gist".

 

If anyone can contribute another spotted flaw in my view, please feel free to share that.

[cruisinon2]

...because the argument until now was the Active Forum Support Engineering Staff can't reproduce the issue...

Not for nothing, but this statement holds little water, and for those affected it inspires even less confidence in a product or company...and there are 2 very good reasons for that:

 

1) It's dismissive, and carries the implication that the customer is either stupid, crazy, or lying.

 

and

 

2) Because it's been used by every warranty department, for every conceivable product from blenders to sedans, since the year of The Flood.

 

I'd like to be clear that I'm not accusing anyone of anything, because maybe neither is the case here, I don't know. BUT...imho, history in general being what it is, skepticism is entirely justified when this becomes a common refrain to a often-raised complaint.

[ZenBalancer]

Not for nothing, and I'd like to make it clear that I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but this statement holds little water. It's been used by every warranty department, for every conceivable product from blenders to sedans, since the year of The Flood....and imho, skepticism is entirely justified when this becomes a common refrain to a often-raised complaint.

My coleage and once I too were accused. Indirectly. The company was accused. In my job once. While SW testing. I couldn't reprduce an issue that one time and he not the other.

 

We were able to remain professional and understand the customer frustration, and not be "sucked in" moot experiences. Moot because something else solved the problem I think, without being able to reproduce it, and we could only appologize for a bug we didn't program it in the first place.

 

If this was about whom is justified to feel or say what, then we would be having a dfferent conversation. I vote for that this is about achieving constructive consensus for constructivism itself. I have been aggressive imo also "justly" so incdentally on Line 6 forum and other forums. But I won't recommend repeating that approach by default. I don'know about your posts aout this issue in general, I don't remember atm.

 

Also if we were talking a "class-action-law-suite" mentality or something (don't ask, too many law related shows in my mind) then we would not be having this conversation on a Line 6 forum, but instead on a "union forum" or something.

 

Who feels justified (both sides)? Or what idea might resolve the problem (in the air)? Worst case, who will sue whom and for what?

 

It's not about diminishing "victims", nor taking on more of the blame for the divide than necessary. Afterall I'm sure more than enough consumers of Line 6, have reputation and income that depend on their purchase and depended on Line 6 equipments. Not recreational experiences only.

 

Collaboration that endures, might be feasible.

Also not many accuse. We might imply or insinuate things. Justifications understandable, but angle for merit of some of the arguments are questionable.

[ZenBalancer]

I will demonstrate my senseless misdirected anger:

 

If a company like Line 6 feels they can string us around like animals in the name of progress, since we took their bate, they are sadly mistaken! We will strike back with public "thunder" and reveal with fear the tretory of their masks!

 

Now what I just said above is ammateur theater at best, and a vague threat at worst. Substance? Who knows. Now that is "BS" that might or might prardoxically not stink.

[cruisinon2]

My coleage and once I too were accused. Indirectly. The company was accused. In my job once. While SW testing. I couldn't reprduce an issue that one time and he not the other.

 

We were able to remain professional and understand the customer frustration, and not be "sucked in" moot experiences. Moot because something else solved the problem I think, without being able to reproduce it, and we could only appologize for a bug we didn't program it in the first place.

 

If this was about whom is justified to feel or say what, then we would be having a dfferent conversation. I vote for that this is about achieving constructive consensus for constructivism itself. I have been aggressive imo also "justly" so incdentally on Line 6 forum and other forums. But I won't recommend repeating that approach by default. I don'know about your posts aout this issue in general, I don't remember atm.

 

Also if we were talking a "class-action-law-suite" mentality or something (don't ask, too many law related shows in my mind) then we would not be having this conversation on a Line 6 forum, but instead on a "union forum" or something.

 

Who feels justified (both sides)? Or what idea might resolve the problem (in the air)? Worst case, who will sue whom and for what?

 

It's not about diminishing "victims", nor taking on more of the blame for the divide than necessary. Afterall I'm sure more than enough consumers of Line 6, have reputation and income that depend on their purchase and depended on Line 6 equipments. Not recreational experiences only.

 

Collaboration that endures, might be feasible.

Also not many accuse. We might imply or insinuate things. Justifications understandable, but angle for merit of some of the arguments are questionable.

Well said.

 

Personally, I think that whatever the problem is, it may be a chance combination of factors...which would explain why only a small number of guitars are affected, and also why the home-grown remedies are not universally successful. There may not be a one-size-fits-all solution. Sometimes life is like that.

 

But at the same time, some of those sound clips are atrocious, and I find it very difficult to accept the assertion that it's due to nothing more than a poorly set-up instrument, when it only affects one string. If I were in their shoes, knowing what these guitars can do when they're in working order, I'd be a little annoyed if that was the response I got.

 

There are no winners here...at least not at present.

[ZenBalancer]

Well said.

Personally, I think that whatever the problem is, it may be a chance combination of factors...which would explain why only a small number of guitars are affected, and also why the home-grown remedies are not universally successful. There may not be a one-size-fits-all solution. Sometimes life is like that.

But at the same time, some of those sound clips are atrocious, and I find it very difficult to accept the assertion that it's due to nothing more than a poorly set-up instrument, when it only affects one string. If I were in their shoes, knowing what these guitars can do when they're in working order, I'd be a little annoyed if that was the response I got.

There are no winners here...at least not at present.

A mind that can't reproduce, might grab at straws.. Also for the customer/client.

[MiroslavKloud]

A very brief excerpt:
First support ticket:

Oct 1, 2013 - After listening to the first sound sample you provided, we are unable to hear anything out of the ordinary.
Oct 2, 2013 - After listening to the new sound sample you provided, again we were not able to hear anything wrong with the guitar unfortunately. We have not heard this complaint or question from any other JTV owners either unfortunately.

 

Second support ticket is lost. Just disappeared. In it I pointed out to this discussion. Mr. psarkissian  answered: This is a different problem.

 

Third support ticket:

Mar 18, 2015 - Make use of Workbench and the EQ's on Workbench as you suggested in the afore mentioned ticket, or the EQ in the HD500 would be good.
A couple of people have gone to using a string set that stars with 11-gauge,... but that requires the guitar to be set-up for the different string tension for the different gauge set.

 

Fourth support ticket: (I was already upset after returning unrepaired guitar after 11 weeks).
My qestion - Hi, the manufacturer does not collaborate with their own technical support? I'm afraid, that they do not want solve the problem of a small number of customers. My problem is most pronounced with the model SPANK, but it manifests itself also in other models.
If someone wants to argue that it can not be solved, so why the string "A" working properly?
This problem it's resolvable in the firmware.

 

Their answer:

Ticket Status = closed

 

After that I has entered to this discussion.

[MiroslavKloud]

Fifth support ticket:

Request: I demand an official statement from Line 6 management on this issue: http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/

 

The answer:

Mar 2, 10:37 AM

Hi. Have you tried the suggestions we've offered so far, or any suggestions the other users in the forum have tried successfully?

 

[cruisinon2]

A mind that can't reproduce, might grab at straws.. Also for the customer/client.

True enough.

 

I like the bendy straws...reminds me of being a kid. ;)

[ZenBalancer]

So if I ask now, what's the head-count of guitar owners of confirmed afflicted Variax guitars, expecting an exact number of responsive users of registered relevant-gear, what's the answer?

 

And how many per user?

 

And how many have filed a support ticket and kept it open?

 

That sounds annoying for some reason doesn't it? Most gave up on the process and went "rouge" with different degrees of success and failure.

 

Edit: I didn't bother to file a support ticket for this since I saw this thread. I imagine others didn't also for the same reason. But now I will point to this thread until the Idea Scale entry for the deal appears, to count the affected users with no home-remedies as another user puts it, nor acceptable long-term workaround.

[MiroslavKloud]

I once counted 20 users with this problem.
Now it will be 25 maybe, I do not want to count again.

That sounds annoying for some reason doesn't it? Most gave up on the process and went "rouge" with different degrees of success and failure.

 

Yes. It is company policy around this problem.
Job for psarkissian and customer service? Restrain, hinder, obstruct, distract, hold off, postpone....

I'm probably the only one idiot who deals with this two and a half years.
And just because of this I will continue.

 

Edit:

How many owners regularly monitors Idea Scale? One of a hundred? Five of a hundred?
And how many owners are aware of this discussion?

[ZenBalancer]

I once counted 20 users with this problem.

Now it will be 25 maybe, I do not want to count again.

 

Yes. It is company policy around this problem.

Job for psarkissian and customer service? Restrain, hinder, obstruct, distract, hold off, postpone....

I'm probably the only idiot who deals with this two and a half years.

And just because of this I will continue.

Aside "coloring with our feelings" for a bit.

 

Lets start with Idea Scale entry just to count how many have this issue, which will help keeping it up to date and not your count as the only immediatly visible source. And then see how many without acceptable home-remedies amongst them. And maybe later suggest the deal.

[MiroslavKloud]

Tell me, how many owners has any inkling that exist something like Idea Scale?

[ZenBalancer]

Tell me, how many owners has any inkling that exist something like Idea Scale?

Thanks found it and voted it up:

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Still-unsolved-problem/716132-23508

 

It's the first step before every IdSc voter needing to prove with a video to make the head-count more legitimate.

 

I'm the 8th?

And no one can change their vote if a home-remedy is sufficient.

 

Edit: it does fragment the conversation. Someone is saying the following over there:

 

"

Community Member on 24th Apr 2015

Every Variax guitar I have played has that problem. The real problem in my opinion, is that some people can't hear it. The other guitarist in my band can't tell the difference between the quack of the piezo and the natural sound of the pickup. Weird!

"

Edited March 2, 2016 by ZenBalancer

[ZenBalancer]

Can someone test with an inflicted Variax, whether using an external GK3 hex-(mag-)pickup mounted on the same guitar, and connected with the special adapter "GK 13-pin to Variax Adapter Module" (http://www.rackvax.com/store/#ecwid:category=966022&mode=product&product=3958715), has any interesting effect? You'll also need a GK unit to power the GK controller on the guitar.

 

New adapter is currently still available for 250$, but someone is selling it for 200$, and maybe can bring the price down since te seller thinks new price still 300$:

 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17228.0(that's how I found the adapter and thought of this test)

 

It might help to isolate the problem further or confirm current suspicions. 

 

If the problem is fixed with this test, then that means the problem is carried-on or caused by the piezo processing of string6 default gauge at fault, since the problem can be moved around and a gauge .52 sufficiently helps with the plink. 

 

If it doesn't change anything, then we're back to square one. But the tester might have interesting findings regardless, if this is not a wild goose chase.

 

If you've nothing to lose, are a guitar internals experimenter, have the GK stuff and wires or some money to "burn", and you've the plink and no suficient remedy, and you really want your Variax guitar to sound acceptable palm muting, then this might be a test you want to give a try.

 

Btw, did anyone try to physically down tune string6 and palm mute? How about physically go E#? Higher any risk to the bridge/sadles? 

Any changes by changing physical tuning? Just to poke the problem from different angles.

 

I started a Lounge thread to point out that polling here should be enabled, if enough agree here, I can use the thread to open a support ticket for it, since not enough interested individuals use Idea Scale: User Support for Enabling Polls On Line 6 Active Forums

[MiroslavKloud]

 

Can someone test with an inflicted Variax, whether using an external GK3 hex-(mag-)pickup mounted on the same guitar, and connected with the special adapter "GK 13-pin to Variax Adapter Module" (http://www.rackvax.com/store/#ecwid:category=966022&mode=product&product=3958715), has any interesting effect? You'll also need a GK unit to power the GK controller on the guitar.

There will be no problem with plink. It cant be. Just as there is no problem with the original Variax magnetic sensors. The problem is only with the combination of piezo / longitudinal wave (transverse wave ?? - confusion of terms):

http://blog.line6.com/2010/piezo-pickups-the-heart-of-the-matter/

But it's an interesting idea with regard to the overall sound quality - bland palm muting and flat dynamics.

Perhaps the ideal solution would be to create "kit to increase quality" - a sixfold magnetic pickup + low-noise preamplifier + new firmware (different frequency characteristic of the magnetic pickup - might suffice equalization in the new preamp). And offer it at an affordable price.

Btw, did anyone try to physically down tune string6 and palm mute? How about physically go E#? Higher any risk to the bridge/sadles?

Any changes by changing physical tuning? Just to poke the problem from different angles.

 

I again remind my video - start at 2.45

https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

Edit: Also in 0.24 - 0.26

[ZenBalancer]

There will be no problem with plink. It cant be. Just as there is no problem with the original Variax magnetic sensors. The problem is only with the combination of piezo / longitudinal wave (transverse wave ?? - confusion of terms):http://blog.line6.com/2010/piezo-pickups-the-heart-of-the-matter/

But it's an interesting idea with regard to the overall sound quality - bland palm muting and flat dynamics.

Perhaps the ideal solution would be to create "kit to increase quality" - a sixfold magnetic pickup + low-noise preamplifier + new firmware (different frequency characteristic of the magnetic pickup - might suffice equalization in the new preamp). And offer it at an affordable price.

 

I again remind my video - start at 2.45https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

But.. Does the following product then not match the original sounds of the Variax they used? Since the RackVax Electric is designed to be played with a GK hex-mags:

 

http://www.rackvax.com/products/rackmount/rackvax-electric/

 

http://www.rackvax.com/component/content/article/38-introscroller/154-rackvax-electric-has-arrived/

 

Alternatively if they do something along the lines of what you said (except for changing the firmware - remains Workbench compatible, perhaps even reflashable), couldn't you get the guts of your variax into a rack by them and still reuse your guitar with a GK3?

 

Although they seem to have taken a different or stagnant route, since they don't mention reusing JTV guts (only the adapter I linked earlier is taking JTV into account and is grouping it with 300 and 600 in terms of relevant connector on the Variax mainboard:

 

"Note that the above product is a complete unit with the Variax electronics (AKA "guts") pre-installed. If you already own a Variax 500 or Variax 700, contact our Custom Shop to request a quote and have us convert it into a RackVax Electric. Download, fill out and submit this form or contact our Custom Shop directly for personalized service."

 

Because they might be able to help you with questions relating to making the hex-mags work with your JTV, whether with the adapter, or guts reuse in a rack for you like they did with the 500 or 700. You might want to ask for their recommendation. Adapter? Or transplant into rack compatible with GK3?

 

If Line 6 was ever going the way of the hex-mags support (I can't evaluate the pro's and cons about that, and challenges), note-tracking and/or 13-pins, they would have done at least one of those a long time ago. So Hell might freezeover before an "alternative Variax system" is offered.

 

Last time there was a rumor lets say, shared on a thread here, that they were working on the Helix/HX Variax Models for the upcomming Variax PRO guitar release somewhere in 2017. And who knows what other interesting things they're working on? And whether HX Models will be possible on the latest JTVs? And offered? And what possible relevant improvement to this palm muting pling issue it brings with the existing piezo Variax system?

 

And as long as we don't have a Poll here, or more votes on the Ideascale entry, there is little value for Line 6 to make a deal to research an inflicted guitar with fw v1.x or v2.x.

 

Speaking of fw versions, have you tried v1.9? Since that's when palm muting support or improvements was introduced right?

 

Edit: clarity.

Edited March 5, 2016 by ZenBalancer

[MiroslavKloud]

1.  It can match the original Variax sound - if the producer devoted sufficient attention to equalization.

 

2.  Piezo will always have worse palm muting and dynamics. This is simply a characteristic attribute of piezo, as well as sensitivity to the longitudinal (transverse?) Waves.

 

3.  1.9? Yes. Less sharp sound - less pronounced plink.

[ZenBalancer]

1. It can match the original Variax sound - if the producer devoted sufficient attention to equalization.

 

2. Piezo will always have worse palm muting and dynamics. This is simply a characteristic attribute of piezo, as well as sensitivity to the longitudinal (transverse?) Waves.

 

3. 1.9? Yes. Less sharp sound - less pronounced plink.

Have you tried the v1.9 fw with a gauge .52 string6? Leaving the other strings as they are.

Is there anything you would miss about v2.x?

 

Edit: clarity.

Edited March 5, 2016 by ZenBalancer

[MiroslavKloud]

52 string - not. I bought the guitar with 10 - 46 strings and with them it has to work. In this I am adamant.
I do not understand the second question.

[snhirsch]

But.. Does the following product then not match the original sounds of the Variax they used? Since the RackVax Electric is designed to be played with a GK hex-mags:

 

http://www.rackvax.com/products/rackmount/rackvax-electric/

 

http://www.rackvax.com/component/content/article/38-introscroller/154-rackvax-electric-has-arrived/

 

Alternatively if they do something along the lines of what you said (except for changing the firmware - remains Workbench compatible, perhaps even reflashable), couldn't you get the guts of your variax into a rack by them and still reuse your guitar with a GK3?

 

Although they seem to have taken a different or stagnant route, since they don't mention reusing JTV guts (only the adapter I linked earlier is taking JTV into account and is grouping it with 300 and 600 in terms of relevant connector on the Variax mainboard:

 

"Note that the above product is a complete unit with the Variax electronics (AKA "guts") pre-installed. If you already own a Variax 500 or Variax 700, contact our Custom Shop to request a quote and have us convert it into a RackVax Electric. Download, fill out and submit this form or contact our Custom Shop directly for personalized service."

 

FYI:  RackVax is dead.  No idea why their website remains active.  According to comments posted on VGuitar Forums, it was built around the earlier Variax series and developed in the hope that Line6 would continue to sell them the necessary parts. When the JTV series came out, they refused to supply any more electronics and that was the end of the product.

[ZenBalancer]

52 string - not. I bought a guitar with 10 - 46 strings and with them it has to work. In this I am adamant.

I do not understand the second question.

What firmware version will you use in the meantime? Until a relevant development to this issue occures.

 

FYI: RackVax is dead. No idea why their website remains active. According to comments posted on VGuitar Forums, it was built around the earlier Variax series and developed in the hope that Line6 would continue to sell them the necessary parts. When the JTV series came out, they refused to supply any more electronics and that was the end of the product.

Did you see their adapter approach mentioning JTV? In my earlier post? Could what you said (discontinued 500 and 700 new parts) be the reason they changed their approach? They still sell the new adapter, while they show the RackVax Electric as unavailable or something. It doesn't seem on the outside by the look of their site that the company itself is dead yet, but not much is updated to clarify what is happening or what to expect exactly. Does their introduction of the adapter also for the JTV means they won't do custom racks anymore but just didn't update the page to retract their quota request form? Or not JTV ones? Or can't without someone's Variax "guts" (Line 6 won't sell "guts" for OEMs?)? Or the RackVax company just won't build custom racks because of less demand for an expensive thing while many are happy with the new Variax guitars themselves and don't need to stick to a different guitar? Or is the GK support degrading the sound (they didn't get it right?)? Did someone contact them? I'm just curious.

 

Edit: clarity.

 

Edit2:

Elantric lit some light on what's up with RackVax LLC, which I annotated: http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3928.msg125053#msg125053

 

And about the lost opportunity by taking too long to start and release the product:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17228.msg125049#msg125049

Edited March 6, 2016 by ZenBalancer

[MiroslavKloud]

I use 2.21 from the moment it was published, palm muting is there slightly better compared to the version 1.9. But worse acoustic guitars.

[clay-man]

Oh trust me, palm muting has been improved dramatically compared to the old firmware.

 

The palm muting on the old firmware sounds awkward. On the new one, it sounds 100 times more better. It's still a bit muddy compared to a regular guitar, but it sounds a lot more natural.

 

I've suggested on ideascale that they increase the higher frequencies to compensate for the muddiness. I'm sure it would work.

 

One of the biggest sounds out of palm muting for high gain metal tones is the sharp scrapping on the attack of a palm mute. Obviously not to the sound of the "plink" noise, but a nice "chugging" noise.

[snhirsch]

Did you see their adapter approach mentioning JTV? In my earlier post? Could what you said (discontinued 500 and 700 new parts) be the reason they changed their approach? They still sell the new adapter, while they show the RackVax Electric as unavailable or something. It doesn't seem on the outside by the look of their site that the company itself is dead yet, but not much is updated to clarify what is happening or what to expect exactly.

 

Yes, I took another look and it seems like they are still selling some of the parts required to rack mount the guts from a 1st generation Variax.  There's also an adapter to go from a Roland 13-pin cable to the Variax processor board, although the price seems very steep to me. 

[ZenBalancer]

Yes, I took another look and it seems like they are still selling some of the parts required to rack mount the guts from a 1st generation Variax.  There's also an adapter to go from a Roland 13-pin cable to the Variax processor board, although the price seems very steep to me.

 

That was the adapter that I linked to, with which I found RackVax.com to begin with, so originally from the vguitarforums user sellingthe adapter for 200$ including shipping, in mint condition, while new with the cheapest shipping option internationally is about 300$. The thread now includes Elantric's feedback as I pointed out earlier:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17228

 

And someone is looking for someone else to build a home-made RackVax with the adapter:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17564.0

[Line6Tony]

Under certain conditions, piezo-based guitars may exhibit mechanical sitar-like string resonances at the piezo bridge. These resonances are also known as “plink tone” or “clang tone.”  They are typically caused by piezo crystals that are not properly seated, but can also appear with some playing techniques, especially with lighter-gauge strings.  Additionally, the setup of a guitar can also introduce or increase clang tone. We are aware of some James Tyler Variax guitars exhibiting this problem and we are currently investigating possible solutions.

[snhirsch]

Under certain conditions, piezo-based guitars may exhibit mechanical sitar-like string resonances at the piezo bridge. These resonances are also known as “plink tone†or “clang tone.† They are typically caused by piezo crystals that are not properly seated, but can also appear with some playing techniques, especially with lighter-gauge strings.  Additionally, the setup of a guitar can also introduce or increase clang tone. We are aware of some James Tyler Variax guitars exhibiting this problem and we are currently investigating possible solutions.

 

That's the statement that Line6 should have made months ago.  My JTV-69 does not exhibit the problem, so I have no dog in this fight, but the waffling and stonewalling was certainly getting counterproductive.

[yelldog]

That's the statement that Line6 should have made months ago. My JTV-69 does not exhibit the problem, so I have no dog in this fight, but the waffling and stonewalling was certainly getting counterproductive.

[yelldog]

Yes at least admitting it is a huge step forward. Hell I'll even pay for the fix I just want to be able to use my alternate tuning.

[onkelfeix]

Hope to see some progress soon. 

 

[Line6Tony]

Guys, we're looking to capture more audio samples of the low E plink. I already have samples from badmelonfarmer, ice9mike, miroslavkloud and Geamala.

[MiroslavKloud]

A copy of the sample from canerakcil.

canerakcil.mp3

[clay-man]

I like where this is going. Big praise to Tony.

[cruisinon2]

I like where this is going. Big praise to Tony.

Well its several orders of magnitude better than "just raise the action by an ameoba's nose hair, and see if that helps"...

 

Still waiting on an explanation as to why the plink can be assigned to any string you want, merely be swapping wires. Kinda shoots the "improperly seated piezo crystals" theory in the foot.

[onkelfeix]

@Tony : If it helps I'll send in some samples as well for comparison.

 

Kind regards

Alex

[artdib2]

I can make a recording of the PLINK sound on my JTV59 as per Line6Tony's request.  I think it's odd that customers should need to do this though.  Don't retailers ship defective Variax with PLINK issues back to Line6 when customers return them with this problem?  I guess they just knock the price down and try to resell it.  You would think Line6 would want to autopsy these defective guitars and work hard on finding the root cause and then making sure quality control and testing is done to prevent any guitars from leaving the factory with this issue.  Is any testing being done at the factory?  It's really simple to weed out the bad ones.  Plug that SOB into a highly overdriven amp and do some Djent style palm muting on the low E.  Anyone with a halfway decent ear and minimal skill will be able to hear the Plink.  If it Plinks, then don't let it leave the factory floor until it's fixed.  Reputation is everything.  I'll submit my recording soon.