Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

[MiroslavKloud]

canerakcil, I had same problem with my varian long ago. I changed the saddle order, so the "faulty" one went to other string, and on that place I put a "good" one from other string. The effect stayed, just now was on the other string. After few weeks I replaced the bridge (was lucky to buy one really cheap). Problem was gone.

 

If there is a L6 service close to you - take your guitar there. If not - you may try to replace the saddles (from E to A and vice versa). Just that will require careful soldering I think. Taking guitar to the service will be best solution.

My guitar was in the Line 6 service 11 weeks. The bridge and the piezo pickup were exchanged been previously.

[cruisinon2]

Game over boys. They won. Unless you enjoy high blood pressure...let it go.

[MiroslavKloud]

Bloody likely! At least another 200 posts.

[MiroslavKloud]

"...........There used to be an on-board reset ability,

but that was taken away for memory space for other things including the HD capabilities.

So memory constraints would have to be taken into consideration."

http://line6.com/support/topic/23764-clean-piezo-signal-from-jtv/?p=181359

That is perhaps the reason why they do not want (not able) to solve our problem.

[cruisinon2]

What? Huh? Jeez, did I pass out?

[MiroslavKloud]

An earlier anecdotal information from Line6 (from Yamaha):

"The given problem can be eliminated probably only with software modification.
But at this moment I have no information about the planned modification of the software."

 

Slovak original text (you can use Google Translator):

Vážený pan Kloud,

 

OdpoveÄ zo spoloÄnosti Line 6 dorazila a je vcelku obsiahla.

Kolega Christian Basener z európskej centrály Line 6 celú vec preveril s kolegami v USA.

V zaslanom emaily poslal informácie o všetkých aktivitách a postupoch pri riešení daného problému.

Je presvedÄený, že zo strany spoloÄnosti Line 6 bolo spravené maximum pre spokojnosÅ¥ zákazníka.

Naozaj, ako ste nakoniec sám uviedol, danú problematiku je možné odstrániť zrejme len úpravou softwaru.

V tejto chvili ale žiadnu informáciu k planovanému obnoveniu softwaru nemám.

SpoloÄnosti Yamaha pracuje na zvýšení kvality produktov Line 6.

V prípade, že bude známa informácia o oprave softwaru, ktorý je inštalovaný vo vašej gitare, budem Vás informovať.

Ostávam s pozdravom a za porozumenie Äakujem.

Perhaps the problem is insufficient memory in the guitar - therefore, they perhaps are not able to solve this problem.

[brue58ski]

So if you don't feel like plowing through all 20+ pages of posts in this thread, I have. I have condensed these to these two documents. They also include posts from another related thread

 

#1 is the possible causes.

#2 is the possible solutions.

 

If you don't want to read those, here are my conclusions from these threads.

The piezos in the JTV's are very sensitive. Definitely more than the original Variaxs. So they are very susceptible to any extraneous noise the guitar can make. Trem spring vibration, vibration of the strings behind the nut and/or bridge, string buzz due to poor guitar setup, etc. Anything that can create a vibration other than the actual "pure" string, can cause the Plng/Clang issue. That's why there are a lot of "dampen this" solutions. But you need to throw in a software issue or two as well and I would say that sums up what's going on. The mechanical cause does not appear to always be the cause. Even Line 6 seems to agree and here is Line 6's last statement on this. It is post #746 in this thread.

 

As it stands, we have yet to find a single root cause for this phenomenon. Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date. We encourage anyone experiencing trouble with their Line 6 gear to reach our support team at www.Line6.com/support/tickets.

[cruisinon2]

As it stands, we have yet to find a single root cause for this phenomenon. Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date. We encourage anyone experiencing trouble with their Line 6 gear to reach our support team at www.Line6.com/support/tickets.

It's all right there...

 

Game called on account of cost-effectiveness. Not enough affected units to continue devoting resources to a fix. Player One:Game Over...Sad, but true.

[njglover]

I cannot believe Miroslav is still arguing so many pages into this thread. I just picked up a JTV89 that also has the 6th string problem and I am determined to fix it. As a former pro guitar tech myself, I am confident that I will be able to. Having only had one day with the guitar so far, here are my two cents:

 

-It is not a firmware problem. Saying it could be fixed with a firmware update is not only unrealistic, but that isn't even a true fix. That is compensating for a mechanical problem and not truly fixing it. Since the problem is undeniably mechanical in nature, the exact compensation needed may vary from instrument to instrument, so one firmware "fix" to rule them all is likely impossible. Maybe my guitar needs a notch filter at 2.1 kHz but yours needs a notch at 2.3 kHz. One should always fix the root cause, not mask it with filters.

-The noise is almost certainly due to some kind of sympathetic vibration (which may in term be causing a rattle). Potential sources - strings behind the nut (in fact, I know that contributes, but it is not the only cause), string behind the saddle, and potentially an improper fit of the string to the saddle. Strings behind the nut and behind the saddle are... annoying, but easy to fix (even expensive guitars have this, I had a lot of irritating noises like that on my Music Man Luke III) - I have used adhesive window insulation before (comes in a roll) that worked great, but will likely need something smaller for the bridge portion. The saddle fit is also easily remedied, just need a file as previously suggested.

 

I agree that it's annoying that Line 6 is not better about fixing the issue in house, but there are only so many things that could be causing it. To answer the question of "Why doesn't the A string do it?" if it hasn't already been answered - well, the A string is less thick, it probably sits in the saddle like it's supposed to. Additionally, it has less mass and does not vibrate as much. There may be a lot of fancy electronics in this guitar, but it is still just a guitar and guitars are not complicated things.

[cruisinon2]

-It is not a firmware problem. Saying it could be fixed with a firmware update is not only unrealistic, but that isn't even a true fix. That is compensating for a mechanical problem and not truly fixing it. Since the problem is undeniably mechanical in nature...

 

I agree that it's annoying that Line 6 is not better about fixing the issue in house, but there are only so many things that could be causing it. To answer the question of "Why doesn't the A string do it?" if it hasn't already been answered - well, the A string is less thick, it probably sits in the saddle like it's supposed to. Additionally, it has less mass and does not vibrate as much. There may be a lot of fancy electronics in this guitar, but it is still just a guitar and guitars are not complicated things.

The only problem with this assessment is that multiple users have noted that the plink can be easily routed to the A string, simply by swapping the low E and A piezo leads. It's hard to blame a mechanical problem with one particular string if you can relocate it at will, just by swapping a couple of wires around.

 

I don't pretend to know what the cause(s) is, and clearly L6 doesn't either. Otherwise they'd have fixed it by now.

[MiroslavKloud]

 ...To answer the question of "Why doesn't the A string do it?" if it hasn't already been answered - well, the A string is less thick, it probably sits in the saddle like it's supposed to. Additionally, it has less mass and does not vibrate as much. There may be a lot of fancy electronics in this guitar, but it is still just a guitar and guitars are not complicated things.

This is a mistake. The question is not: "Why doesn't the A string do it?" Because the A string also do it. So the question is: "Why the mechanical problem that proven to exist on the A string, doesn't affect on the output signal from the guitar?"

 

Maybe my guitar needs a notch filter at 2.1 kHz but yours needs a notch at 2.3 kHz.

In all the sound samples that I have heard, the problem is on the same frequency.

[njglover]

This is a mistake. The question is not: "Why doesn't the A string do it?" Because the A string also do it. So the question is: "Why the mechanical problem that proven to exist on the A string, doesn't affect on the output signal from the guitar?"

 

Some people hear the same problem on the A string coming through the output of the guitar. Others, like me, do not. That means it is a mechanical problem that exists on some users' guitars and not on others. No two guitars are exactly identical, thus what is rattling or vibrating on mine may not be doing the same on yours. On top of that, we are also comparing several different models of guitar that are also equipped with several different types of bridge. Thus, the cause of the problem cannot possibly be the same on all these guitars. If we were all using the exact same model and all of us had the exact same problem, that could potentially indicate it is a firmware problem, but it could also indicate that it is just bad hardware design. The fact of the matter is that we are not all using the same model and we do not all have exactly the same problem - some experience it more than others or even not at all - so it cannot possibly a firmware problem since that is the one thing that IS exactly the same on all our guitars. Further, if you listen to the sound that comes out of the string with your ears instead of with a frequency analyzer, it just sounds like a mechanical noise. It sounds like a metallic vibration or scraping. Again, I was a professional guitar tech. This is a sound I am familiar with and it does have a mechanical cause. You can MASK it with firmware, perhaps, but that does not actually fix the problem, which should be the goal.

 

 

In all the sound samples that I have heard, the problem is on the same frequency.

 

If all the guitars are using the same gauge of string and those strings are the same age, the same composition, and all the hardware on the guitars in question are the same, then this could potentially be true. But the mass, composition, and age of the string as well as the composition and mass of the various components of the guitar the string are connected to will (must) alter the frequencies. That's just physics. If the frequency was actually exactly the same in all cases, that would seem to indicate that the firmware is adding a noise that is not there, which seems incredibly unlikely.

 

This is not some grand Line 6 conspiracy to be unhelpful and leave you with bad guitars. I think they have simply given up because no one is willing to accept the ideas they have suggested.

[MiroslavKloud]

 That means it is a mechanical problem that exists on some users' guitars and not on others.

 

Yes and no. It is a mechanical problem which exists on all guitars and on all strings, but differs in intensity.

On top of that, we are also comparing several different models of guitar that are also equipped with several different types of bridge. Thus, the cause of the problem cannot possibly be the same on all these guitars. If we were all using the exact same model and all of us had the exact same problem....

 

 But we have the same problem, the differences are only in the intensity.

Further, if you listen to the sound that comes out of the string with your ears instead of with a frequency analyzer, it just sounds like a mechanical noise. It sounds like a metallic vibration or scraping. Again, I was a professional guitar tech. This is a sound I am familiar with and it does have a mechanical cause.

 

Yes - Longitudinal Wave.

You can MASK it with firmware, perhaps, but that does not actually fix the problem, which should be the goal.

 

But that does fix the problem on the A string.

 

I tell again:

Anyone can do this simple test. For this you need only three things:

1. An arbitrary guitar

2. Ball of your finger

3. Your ears

 

https://youtu.be/lHm3Tj-pa8I

The time since 0.40 till 0.52

[pearlfukinjam]

I cannot believe Miroslav is still arguing so many pages into this thread. I just picked up a JTV89 that also has the 6th string problem and I am determined to fix it. As a former pro guitar tech myself, I am confident that I will be able to. Having only had one day with the guitar so far, here are my two cents:

 

-It is not a firmware problem. Saying it could be fixed with a firmware update is not only unrealistic, but that isn't even a true fix. That is compensating for a mechanical problem and not truly fixing it. Since the problem is undeniably mechanical in nature, the exact compensation needed may vary from instrument to instrument, so one firmware "fix" to rule them all is likely impossible. Maybe my guitar needs a notch filter at 2.1 kHz but yours needs a notch at 2.3 kHz. One should always fix the root cause, not mask it with filters.

-The noise is almost certainly due to some kind of sympathetic vibration (which may in term be causing a rattle). Potential sources - strings behind the nut (in fact, I know that contributes, but it is not the only cause), string behind the saddle, and potentially an improper fit of the string to the saddle. Strings behind the nut and behind the saddle are... annoying, but easy to fix (even expensive guitars have this, I had a lot of irritating noises like that on my Music Man Luke III) - I have used adhesive window insulation before (comes in a roll) that worked great, but will likely need something smaller for the bridge portion. The saddle fit is also easily remedied, just need a file as previously suggested.

 

I agree that it's annoying that Line 6 is not better about fixing the issue in house, but there are only so many things that could be causing it. To answer the question of "Why doesn't the A string do it?" if it hasn't already been answered - well, the A string is less thick, it probably sits in the saddle like it's supposed to. Additionally, it has less mass and does not vibrate as much. There may be a lot of fancy electronics in this guitar, but it is still just a guitar and guitars are not complicated things.

 

Please share if you find a fix.  I got a 89f and just returned it because of the plinking.  It was very noticeable on the low E string, but also heard it on the upper frets (12+) of the higher strings too.  I put some felt just behind the nut to dampen the strings, which helped but only in certain ways (hard to describe).  It was still noticeable, esp with higher distortion, but also without it.  It also depended on how I played

 

I love the idea of the guitar and would like to get one, if it would be without the issues :)

 

Is it worse on the 89 compared to the 59 and 69?  

[njglover]

As I suspected, putting foam behind the nut does not fix the issue, but it does silence the annoying ringing that I wanted it to silence, so I still recommend doing that. I recommend using something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQMMVI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=7J1CA4WZOYI7&coliid=I1YB6REP0V9K8P&psc=1 (you can find it at most home improvement stores, too). It has adhesive on one side so you can stick it to the headstock and leave it there. Works really well.

 

Additionally, muting the strings behind the bridge doesn't solve the issue, as others have noted. I do not believe it is an issue with the nut slots, either, as nut slot issues only appear on open strings. This leads me to conclude it is an issue with the contact between the string and the saddle, as I suspected, so when I have some free time I will start going at that with abrasive cord and/or files.

[njglover]

Looked closer at the saddle and did a bit of filing, but didn't take it very far as a) I am wary of ruining the piezo and b) it seems to me that the string is fitting in there correctly. I am now wondering if using coated strings (or even just older/deader strings) might mute some of the resonance, but am finding that it really doesn't bother me enough to keep hunting it down.

[cruisinon2]

...but am finding that it really doesn't bother me enough to keep hunting it down.

Then it would seem that your guitar suffers from a much less virulent form of the disease. The really horrible ones are like nails on a chalkboard...

[pearlfukinjam]

Then it would seem that your guitar suffers from a much less virulent form of the disease. The really horrible ones are like nails on a chalkboard...

 

Indeed.  I wish there was a solution for this. I returned my 89f because of it. :(  Iove the idea of the multi-guitar and tunings, just couldn't deal with that sound.

[njglover]

Then it would seem that your guitar suffers from a much less virulent form of the disease. The really horrible ones are like nails on a chalkboard...

 

Well, I should clarify. The extent to which it bothers me depends on what I am doing. I primarily use the magnetic pickups, but there are a few songs where I either want a different tone (Strat, typically) or I want the Helix to switch between a neck pickup and a bridge pickup for me. For these, it has not proven to be much of a problem. But with certain amps/settings, boy that low E sounds horrible. It's manageable if I palm mute a bit, but there's almost nothing melodic about it otherwise. Still, more convenient than bringing two guitars to a show.

[Rocco_Crocco]

If it is purely a mechanical issue, than why did changing bodies in workbench cure my 59, which had a horrible pling on the LP, Strat and tele models?

[cruisinon2]

If it is purely a mechanical issue, than why did changing bodies in workbench cure my 59, which had a horrible pling on the LP, Strat and tele models?

You're right...it isn't mechanical. If it were, one could not bounce the "plink" from string to string by switching piezo leads at the board, as more than a few users have reported. If it were purely mechanical, there would have to be some fixed point of origin for the plink. It would not be possible to divorce that sound from the string on which it was generated, magically linking it to pitches generated from other physical locations...ones that are otherwise plink-free, unless you move wires around. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[MiroslavKloud]

I repeat it again and again and I do not know, how else I able describe it.
Plink has the mechanical origin. It occurs naturally in all strings, on any guitar, any bass, any piano... Sometimes more, sometimes less - there are many factors which affect it. But very essence is determined by physical laws. For most musical instruments this is not a problem. But piezo pickup is very sensitive to this type of vibration. In fact, the "plink" occur not only on the E6 string but also on A5 string. At the A5 string is it removed in eletronica. The same should happen also on the E6 string, but here it just does not work - ERROR. Some guitars have due to a mechanical reasons only hushed plink on the E6 - these do not have a problem. Otherwise, there is nothing that could save similarly, as it works well on the A5 string.

[cruisinon2]

Whatever. Continued debate it utterly pointless, as it will never be remedied anyway. That much has been made crystal clear. Everyone's time would be better spent driving ice picks under our toenails.

[GtarLover]

So, I've been dealing with this issue for some time. I agree with others who have this problem.

I have 2 89f guitars and they BOTH do this.

I may need to update my firmware, I'll have to check on that, yet from what I read here that hasn't helped anyone.

 

For the record, yes...no problem without engaging the electronics. Guitar is excellent both feel and sound wise.

As soon as the electronics are engaged, it's almost unusable for "chugging" hard rock tunes. Low E string is literally HIDEOUS.

Also, I have had these professionally set up by my tech. He does ALL my guitars and these are no different.

No issues with intonation, fret buzz, pickup height, etc. As mentioned above, without the electronics engaged, it's excellent.

 

I hope that njglover finds a solution...yet I'm not so hopeful if the belief it's a set up issue. From my perspective it is DEFINITELY not that.

[cruisinon2]

I hope that njglover finds a solution...yet I'm not so hopeful if the belief it's a set up issue. From my perspective it is DEFINITELY not that.

You are correct. The notion that this can be fixed by raising the action by an eyelash or two is ridiculous. Unfortunately, L6 has effectively euthanized any hopes of a fix. They've said in no uncertain terms that they're not even working on it anymore.

[njglover]

I hope that njglover finds a solution...yet I'm not so hopeful if the belief it's a set up issue. From my perspective it is DEFINITELY not that.

 

I have stopped following this thread because, frankly, it is cancerous. But I agree that it is not a setup issue, at least not a standard setup issue. What I mean is that filing the nut slot, changing the action, or adjusting pickup height are not going to fix the problem. Filing the saddle does not seem to me like it will help much, either. However, I also firmly believe that saying it is a problem with the firmware is ridiculous. Obviously, I do not have access to everything that went on with the coding, but the notion that there is some magical fix happening on all the other strings that they just didn't apply to the 6th string seems ridiculous. If it was that simple, they would have fixed it. The noise itself is mechanical in nature - that is, the sound would not be there if it was not being produced by the interaction of the string and another hardware component. Neither the piezo nor the firmware is adding this noise. I suppose it is possible that it could be fixed in the firmware, but it seems that Line 6 is not interested in helping with that. I can't say I blame them because, again, there isn't a PROBLEM with the firmware, the problem is that the string is producing that sound in the first place and it is made worse by the fact that piezos are more sensitive than magnetics to these sorts of sounds. Certain models will amplify the problem because the guitar they are modeling accentuates those frequencies.

 

At any rate, I will continue to look for solutions, though, since I mostly use the magnetics (because I do a lot of chugging and the magnetics are quite good anyway), it has taken a bit of a backseat for me. My current suspicion is that coated or pure nickel strings would reduce the problem somewhat and that pure steel strings would amplify it, but I do not have sets on hand to try.

[MiroslavKloud]

Last post at my video on YouTube:

Kevin W...
Mine has the same, and replacement from Sweetwater, the same. I switched the piezo inputs on 5 and 6 string, the problem moved to 5th string. It's not mechanical! !

 

:)

[cruisinon2]

Last post at my video on YouTube:

 

:)

And?

 

I've been saying the same thing for years. You can't re-route a mechanically induced noise to another string by moving wires around. If the E string, or something physically connected to it is the source of the unwanted noise, then how is it possible to divorce this sound from the string that generates it, and relocate it elsewhere? Makes no sense. Never did, never will.

[njglover]

And?

 

I've been saying the same thing for years. You can't re-route a mechanically induced noise to another string by moving wires around. If the E string, or something physically connected to it is the source of the unwanted noise, then how is it possible to divorce this sound from the string that generates it, and relocate it elsewhere? Makes no sense. Never did, never will.

 

You do realize that the piezo and thereby any wires connected to the piezo are physically connected to the string, right?

[edstar1960]

Just for clarity - when people have reported swapping piezo inputs around - I have always understood this to mean they have fed the piezo that sits under the low E (6th) string into the pcb input for string 5, they have then taken the piezo under the A (5th) string and fed that into the pcb input for string 6.  So the LOW E is now being processed within the board as if it was the A string, and the A string is being processed within the board as if it was the E string.  In this scenario, the plink that mainfests on the low E string disappears, but instead, the A string develops the plink.  

This seems to indicate that the software running on the board is somehow able to remove the plink if the E string is processed as if it was an A string by the board.

The A string processed as an E string then manifests the same plink that was previously on the E string - which implies the software processing the A string as an E string is not removing the plink noise.

 

I am sure it is far more complicated than that simple overview - but essentially that is what has been observed and reported.

 

So if it is just a mechanical issue on the low E string, then the above test should not be able to remove the plink - the plink should stay apparent on the low E regardless of which pcb input the low E piezo is plugged into.  Furthermore, the A string should not manifest a plink just because its piezo has just been plugged into the pcb input for the low E.

 

That is my understanding of what has been reported.    Hope that clarifies it for everyone.

[cruisinon2]

Just for clarity - when people have reported swapping piezo inputs around - I have always understood this to mean they have fed the piezo that sits under the low E (6th) strong into the pcb input for string 5, they have then taken the piezo under the A (5th) string and fed that into the pcb input for string 6. So the LOW E is now being processed within the board as if it was the A string, and the A string is being process within the board as if it was the E string. In this scenario, the plink that mainfests on the low E string disappears, but instead, the A string develops the plink.

This seems to indicate that the software running on the board is somehow able to remove the plink if the E string is processed as if it was an A string by the board.

The A string processed as an E string then manifests the same plink that was previously on the E string - which implies the software processing the A string as an E string is not removing the plink noise.

 

I am sure it is far more complicated than that simple overview - but essentially that is what has been observed and reported.

 

So if it is just a mechanical issue on the low E string, then the above test should not be able to remove the plink - the plink should stay apparent on the low E regardless of which pcb input the low E piezo is plugged into. Furthermore, the A string should not manifest a plink just because its piezo has jut been plugged into the pcb input for the low E.

 

That is my understanding of what has been reported. Hope that clarifies it for everyone.

Exactly...

[cruisinon2]

You do realize that the piezo and thereby any wires connected to the piezo are physically connected to the string, right?

Yes, I do...which only underscores my point, as does edstars' excellent and detailed description a post or two above this one.

 

If the low E string, or anything and everything that is physically in contact with it, is in fact the source of the noise, then routing the signal from that Low E saddle to a different input on the board will not succeed in magically transporting said unwanted noise to notes generated on a different string altogether. It defies logic.

[MiroslavKloud]

Just for clarity - when people have reported swapping piezo inputs around - I have always understood this to mean they have fed the piezo that sits under the low E (6th) strong into the pcb input for string 5, they have then taken the piezo under the A (5th) string and fed that into the pcb input for string 6.  So the LOW E is now being processed within the board as if it was the A string, and the A string is being process within the board as if it was the E string.  In this scenario, the plink that mainfests on the low E string disappears, but instead, the A string develops the plink.  

This seems to indicate that the software running on the board is somehow able to remove the plink if the E string is processed as if it was an A string by the board.

The A string processed as an E string then manifests the same plink that was previously on the E string - which implies the software processing the A string as an E string is not removing the plink noise.

 

I am sure it is far more complicated than that simple overview - but essentially that is what has been observed and reported.

 

So if it is just a mechanical issue on the low E string, then the above test should not be able to remove the plink - the plink should stay apparent on the low E regardless of which pcb input the low E piezo is plugged into.  Furthermore, the A string should not manifest a plink just because its piezo has jut been plugged into the pcb input for the low E.

 

That is my understanding of what has been reported.    Hope that clarifies it for everyone.

Absolutely accurate.  Thank you.

[njglover]

Yes, I do...which only underscores my point, as does edstars' excellent and detailed description a post or two above this one.

 

If the low E string, or anything and everything that is physically in contact with it, is in fact the source of the noise, then routing the signal from that Low E saddle to a different input on the board will not succeed in magically transporting said unwanted noise to notes generated on a different string altogether. It defies logic.

 

It does not underscore your point. It suggests that something about that piezo and the wires connected to it might be causing the noise. In all these tests, I would bet that no one has bothered examining the electronics themselves for unwanted vibrations. I know that I have not yet done so, but will eventually. The clarification above only furthers my point - if all things about the piezo are moved to a different string and the new string now produces the noise, logic dictates that it is not the string but rather those components connected to the string that are generating the noise. This also suggests that it is not the nut or the way the string is seated in the saddle as both would change by moving it to another string. Perhaps there is a specific component in the circuitry for the 6th string that is different from the other strings and is producing the noise. Again, further testing is needed. You can think I'm crazy if you want, but I am not the only one who stuffs socks in the trem cavity to keep sympathetic vibrations out.

[cruisinon2]

It does not underscore your point. It suggests that something about that piezo and the wires connected to it might be causing the noise. In all these tests, I would bet that no one has bothered examining the electronics themselves for unwanted vibrations. I know that I have not yet done so, but will eventually. The clarification above only furthers my point - if all things about the piezo are moved to a different string and the new string now produces the noise, logic dictates that it is not the string but rather those components connected to the string that are generating the noise. This also suggests that it is not the nut or the way the string is seated in the saddle as both would change by moving it to another string. Perhaps there is a specific component in the circuitry for the 6th string that is different from the other strings and is producing the noise. Again, further testing is needed. You can think I'm crazy if you want, but I am not the only one who stuffs socks in the trem cavity to keep sympathetic vibrations out.

Your argument is that the plink has a mechanical origin. If so, it has some physical location. Wherever it is, it isn't going to hop from one string to the other. Regardless of which component is responsible for the noise, the piezo lead carries with it the tone generated by the string that we all actually want to hear, as well as this awful plink. Exactly how does plugging this wire into a different input on the board separate the note from the plink, and piggyback it onto a different string? The signal going through that wire has them both. Where's the filter that's isolating and rerouting just this horrendous noise? It doesn't make any sense.

 

I don't claim to know what's causing it, but if it has a mechanical origin, it would be inextricably linked to the string that's in physical contact with whatever this mechanical issue is. I fail to see how it can be relocated at will by moving wires. But regardless, it's fairly obvious that neither one of us is going to convince the other of anything, so I see little point in discussing it further. L6 threw in the towel long ago anyway, so nothing's gonna change.

 

And you can do what you like with your socks...that's none of my business. ;)

[edstar1960]

It does not underscore your point. It suggests that something about that piezo and the wires connected to it might be causing the noise. In all these tests, I would bet that no one has bothered examining the electronics themselves for unwanted vibrations. I know that I have not yet done so, but will eventually. The clarification above only furthers my point - if all things about the piezo are moved to a different string and the new string now produces the noise, logic dictates that it is not the string but rather those components connected to the string that are generating the noise. This also suggests that it is not the nut or the way the string is seated in the saddle as both would change by moving it to another string. Perhaps there is a specific component in the circuitry for the 6th string that is different from the other strings and is producing the noise. Again, further testing is needed. You can think I'm crazy if you want, but I am not the only one who stuffs socks in the trem cavity to keep sympathetic vibrations out.

 

I think you have misunderstood what is happening with this re-routing - the E string piezo is remaining under the E string - they are simply plugging it's output wire into the board input socket for the A string - then they do the same for the A string but plug its wire into the input for the E string.  So the mechanical string/piezo combo is the same - it is just going into a different input on the PCB board.

 

Now - as we are keeping all the components of the E string together - we would expect the plink to continue to come through loud and clear when we play - however - in this scenario the plink mysteriously "disappears" from the E string - in other words - they can play the E string and no longer hear the plink - so somehow it has been filtered out.  Conversely, as we are keeping all the components of the A string together we would expect to be able to play that without any plink as before - but that is not the case - when the A string is played they can now clearly hear the same audible plink that was plaguing them on the E string.  So whatever was filtering it out from the A string before is no longer working when using the different input on the PCB board.

 

If the source was entirely mechanical, and the electronics and software had no filtering in place, then it would not matter which input on the PCB board you move that string/piezo combination to - the plink would still be audible when you play that string.   The guys that have tried this have said that the plink disappears from the low E when they do this but instead they then get a plink when they play the A string which is now routed through the input that previously was used by  the low E.

 

As the physical situation is the same, and all that has happened is the wires have been swapped on the PCB inputs, then how can we explain how the plink now manifests when playing the A string and not the low E ?   The implication is that the electronics/software are actually doing some filtering which removes the plink - why else would the E have the plink when plugged into PCB input 6 but not when plugged into input 5?  And why would the A have no plink when plugged into PCB input 5 but then have a plink when plugged into input 6?

 

I hope that has clarified it.

[MiroslavKloud]

It is perfectly explanation. Missing only explanation of the mechanical causes.
It is here: https://youtu.be/7cDAYFTXq3E

Or here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ia6IhSU4JB8/UfhANeZPbyI/AAAAAAAAZ5U/teBjIwlgIs4/s1600/2-13-waves-longitudinal.gif

[JTSC777]

After lowering all the string levels from 100% default levels in workbench and lowering the magnetic pickups to balance with the modeling sounds I have absolutely no problems with my JTV at all. I am not a chuggah meshughuh huh guy but do play some heavy stuff.

 

 

I have 10 other electric guitars that all have some quirks. Its part of it. If you really want to have some fun get a couple of Roland synth pickups and a GR55 and disappear down that rathole for about 10 years lol! Chirps/ Squirrels/ Smears/Bleats/Splats! It made me a better player and cleaned up my sloppy technique so I think for me the Variax also needs a certain amount of finesse.

 

Look up that XEB video and listen to that guy playing crazy dropped altered tuning stuff loud as hell through pedals and a damn fine sounding Marshall. Somehow he does it and he is beating the hell out of the E string.

[njglover]

I think you have misunderstood what is happening with this re-routing - the E string piezo is remaining under the E string - they are simply plugging it's output wire into the board input socket for the A string - then they do the same for the A string but plug its wire into the input for the E string.  So the mechanical string/piezo combo is the same - it is just going into a different input on the PCB board.

 

Now - as we are keeping all the components of the E string together - we would expect the plink to continue to come through loud and clear when we play - however - in this scenario the plink mysteriously "disappears" from the E string - in other words - they can play the E string and no longer hear the plink - so somehow it has been filtered out.  Conversely, as we are keeping all the components of the A string together we would expect to be able to play that without any plink as before - but that is not the case - when the A string is played they can now clearly hear the same audible plink that was plaguing them on the E string.  So whatever was filtering it out from the A string before is no longer working when using the different input on the PCB board.

 

If the source was entirely mechanical, and the electronics and software had no filtering in place, then it would not matter which input on the PCB board you move that string/piezo combination to - the plink would still be audible when you play that string.   The guys that have tried this have said that the plink disappears from the low E when they do this but instead they then get a plink when they play the A string which is now routed through the input that previously was used by  the low E.

 

As the physical situation is the same, and all that has happened is the wires have been swapped on the PCB inputs, then how can we explain how the plink now manifests when playing the A string and not the low E ?   The implication is that the electronics/software are actually doing some filtering which removes the plink - why else would the E have the plink when plugged into PCB input 6 but not when plugged into input 5?  And why would the A have no plink when plugged into PCB input 5 but then have a plink when plugged into input 6?

 

I hope that has clarified it.

 

It does, thank you. It has sounded like the piezo was also being moved. I suppose it is possible that some filtering is being done (I have not completed discounted this, but Line 6 has so far been adamant that no filtering of this sort is being done, so I am taking them at their word), but it is also possible that there is some different circuitry connected to the 6th string than the 5th string and that the particular components chosen are themselves the source of the noise. That is what I am proposing, and maybe you think I am crazy, but I've known some buzzy capacitors in my time, so I don't think it's any crazier than some of the conspiracy theories being bandied about here.

[MiroslavKloud]

JTSC777,

you're right. But this forum is no longer about to solve the problem by Line 6. This is a skeleton in the closet of management of the company. It's about their actual behavior towards a customers.
LINE 6, you had two good possibilities for to behave:
1: Solve your problem
Or
2: Explicate the reasons why this can not be solved and to offer some satisfaction.

You have chosen the third way: lies and empty promises.

I have still liked LINE 6 and I have great respect for the work of your engineers.
But customer support is shameful.
I believe that the problem will be solved, but not to your credit - the greater will be your ignominy.