Firmware 3.71 faiure - Editor failure - Updater failure - What is happening?

[ullo1955]

This morning I turned on the Helix floor that I had used the night before. As soon as I open the Helix editor 3.70 program I get an error message 8207.  I notice that firmware 3.71 is dipsonable on the Line 6 site. I open the Line 6 updater program, select firmware 3.71, it starts gathering but at some point the message update failure appears. The message Update failed appears on the Helix display. Reboot and try again.  I also tried doing a factory reset but I don't really know the procedure. I followed this info :
     Restore stock presets + setlists: Hold footswitches 7 + 8.
    Restore stock presets + setlists + IR's: Hold footswitches 8 + 9.
    Restore stock presets + setlists + IR's and Globals: Hold footswitches 9 + 10.
    Reset Globals: Hold footswitches 5 + 6.
    Erase and restore/reset all factory and user presets: Hold footswitches 10 + 11.
    Erase and clear current preset only: Hold footswitches 11 + 12.
    Update Mode: Hold footswitches 6 + 12.

But nothing happens . What should I do? More importantly, why did the firmware updating stop? How can I go back to factory settings and early firmware?
Please, I urgently need to use the helix

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[ullo1955]

SOLVED! The problem was the USB port on the PC. YOU DON'T NEED TO USE THE USB3 PORT but the USB2!!!!!. Unbelievable!!! Maybe Line 6 should solve these problems.

Edited January 19 by ullo1955
editing error

[datacommando]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:18 AM, ullo1955 said:

SOLVED! The problem was the USB port on the PC. YOU DON'T NEED TO USE THE USB3 PORT but the USB2!!!!!. Unbelievable!!! Maybe Line 6 should solve these problems.

Hi,

 

It is not a secret about the USB 2 connector. It has been the same since Helix was first released in 2015.
 

It is not a problem - it was designed as a USB2 device.

 

From the Helix 3.0 Owner’s Manual- page 68 -USB Audio.

 

“Helix functions as a USB 2.0, multiple-input/output, 24-bit, 96kHz, low-latency audio interface for Windows and Mac computers, as well as for iPad or iPhone mobile devices (with optional Apple Camera Connection Kit adapter), and is compatible with all major DAW software.”

 

Unbelievable!!! Maybe you should read the manual and avoid these problems.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Google Translate:

 

Hola,

 

No es un secreto lo del conector USB 2. Ha sido lo mismo desde que Helix se lanzó por primera vez en 2015.

 

No es un problema: fue diseñado como un dispositivo USB2.

 

Del Manual del propietario de Helix 3.0, página 68 -Audio USB.

 

“Helix funciona como una interfaz de audio USB 2.0, de múltiples entradas/salidas, 24 bits, 96 kHz y de baja latencia para computadoras Windows y Mac, así como para dispositivos móviles iPad o iPhone (con el adaptador opcional del kit de conexión de cámara Apple). y es compatible con todos los principales software DAW”.

 

¡¡¡Increíble!!! Quizás deberías leer el manual y evitar estos problemas.

 

Espero que esto ayude/tenga sentido.

 

 

[ullo1955]

Hi DataCommando, thank you for your reply. FYI I read the manual whenever I need it (if I need it at all), and if I posted the question it is because my Helix Floor has been connected to a USB3 port since I purchased it and it has always worked!!! However, this morning in trying to upgrade from 3.70 to 3.71, both the Editor and the Updater would not work. The updater in particular had started loading the firmware when suddenly the following message appeared: AN ERROR HAS OCCURRED. PLEASE TRY AGAIN. At that point the Helix no longer responded to the Boot and so I attempted to restore it by performing the procedure from the manual. Unfortunately, there was nothing to be done despite changing the PC, (using a laptop that has only USB2 ports). Only then did I plug the cable into the USB2 on the PC and everything was restored. Magic? Miracle? I don't know. So save the "unbelievable" quip. Before you set yourself up as a know-it-all, it would have been nice to have an exchange of views from serious people. Anyway thanks again for "your technically superior answer" however do me a favor, if I still need some advice, you don't give me any. Good luck for everything

 

 

[waymda]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:18 PM, ullo1955 said:

Unbelievable!!! Maybe Line 6 should solve these problems.

 

So DC plays back your entitled BS line that demonstrates that you don't read the manual and you want to have a shot.

 

There's no exchange of views to be had on this topic, it's a technical answer to a technical issue on some highly technical hardware. You made your view very clear, it's the manufacturer's problem that you don't understand the product.

 

My view, I wish to exchange, is RTFM so you have at least a minimal understanding of what you're talking about.

 

A quick look at your previous posts suggests doing your own homework is an anathema to you, and you think an end-user forum should be your personalised help desk.

 

Best of luck with that.

[ninecows]

Ehm… let me get this straight. Is Helix not compatible with USB3? Like suddenly it will only work with USB2?

 

It has worked flawlessly with my iMac (USB3 only AFAIK) for 3 years. 

[silverhead]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:27 AM, ninecows said:

Ehm… let me get this straight. Is Helix not compatible with USB3? Like suddenly it will only work with USB2?

 

It has worked flawlessly with my iMac (USB3 only AFAIK) for 3 years. 

It would be good to get that straight but I don’t know if we can. The reality is that many people are able to use USB3 with no issues, while some issues are resolved when USB2 rather than USB3 is used. So some reported issues are somehow caused by USB3 while no reported issues are known to be caused by USB2. Hence the prudent thing for Line 6 to do is to recommend always using USB2, which is what they are doing. Meanwhile, in the background, they may be investigating further to try to identify and resolve any technical issues with using USB3. If they are doing so we don’t know about it.

 

It reminds me of a different yet similar issue with non/partially-ASIO compliant drivers like ASIO4ALL. Some people use it without any issues. For others, their issues disappear when they use the Line 6 ASIO compliant driver. So Line 6 Support simply does not offer support for ASIO4ALL environments. They support only installations that use the Line 6 ASIO driver.

[PierM]

Just to remind you guys we are in 2024. Modern PCs and Macs, doesn't even use a USB 2 hardware root, so this isn't really the point. USB 3 ports they do auto run with 2.0 speeds when required by the device plugged.

 

Point is these updaters are extremely sensible to many things, as basically everything coming from L6. :)

 

Isn't always user error, sometimes it's just bad HAL from the companies.

[datacommando]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:27 AM, ninecows said:

Ehm… let me get this straight. Is Helix not compatible with USB3? Like suddenly it will only work with USB2?

 

It has worked flawlessly with my iMac (USB3 only AFAIK) for 3 years. 

 

HI,

 

There is a whole world of mystery surrounding USB cables and connections , no matter what type we happen to use - you with your iMac and the OP on Windows PC.

So when you say - "worked flawlessly with my iMac (USB3 only AFAIK) for 3 years", you will note that there are actually three different versions of USB 3.

 

Micro B

Mini B

8 Pin Lightning

Type A 2

Type B 2

Type A 3

Type B 3

Type C 3

 

Oh, and let's not forget USB4.

 

Here's a fun discussion about Helix USB disconnects which started in Jan 2021 right through to Jan 2024.

 

 

It is well documented that anything to do with updating the Firmware requires people to avoid using USB hubs, or the front ports on certain Windows PCs, etc.

It may well be that you have successfully used USB 3, for however long previously, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the Line 6 Helix is designed and marketed as a USB 2.0 device. Deviate from the advice and you may well encounter problems. Just saying.

 

I said it was complicated!

 

[ninecows]

To be fair for the OP. The USB 3 standard is more than 15 years old. To sell a product today that is (randomly or suddenly) incompatible with USB3 is not something that can be excused by writing USB2 in the manual. If it’s only guaranteed to work today with USB 2 it needs to explicitly say so in the manual and on the product page. Like: “USB2, but NOT USB3 compatible”. 
 

I agree that using hubs and low quality cables etc is a different story. 

Unless line6 specifically state that it will not work with USB3, people are not wrong in expecting it to work. Especially if it has been working for years. And they definitely don’t deserve to be flamed for assuming it would work. 

[PierM]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:16 PM, ninecows said:

To be fair for the OP. The USB 3 standard is more than 15 years old. To sell a product today that is (randomly or suddenly) incompatible with USB3 is not something that can be excused by writing USB2 in the manual. If it’s only guaranteed to work today with USB 2 it needs to explicitly say so in the manual and on the product page. Like: “USB2, but NOT USB3 compatible”. 
 

I agree that using hubs and low quality cables etc is a different story. 

Unless line6 specifically state that it will not work with USB3, people are not wrong in expecting it to work. Especially if it has been working for years. And they definitely don’t deserve to be flamed for assuming it would work. 

 

 

The point here is that a USB audio interface is 99% using the USB 2.0 protocol (even if you'd set these consumer interfaces to their max rates, the final required bandwidth would be a fraction of a fraction of the 2.0 available speed) while USB 3.0 and 3.x are needed for high speed data transfer, like USB disks and anything else does benefit from an high speed bus.

 

That said, a USB device that is only using the 2.0 protocol, should work with any "blue port" connected to a 3.x bus. It will end just using the bandwidth it does need, that's it. Isn't a different technology, just a faster bus.

 

So, while it is true (and obvious, tech wise) that Helix (and any derivate) are USB 2.0, they shouldn't have any issue with a 3.x.

 

As I said, I'm also using only 3.x ports, for both PC and Mac environment, and everything is fine.

 

IME, these problems are random and hard do isolate/debug, and are more caused by what's being shared at USB Root level by the chipset, or cable lenght, or even power management. Could be the updater

 

Im pretty sure that when you get that issue on a blue port, and then it works on a black port, isn't about 3.0 VS 2.0, but about what was being shared by that 3.0 port at Root level (single ports from the Root are pretty rare, especially in laptops, so they are often being shared with other ports, which means multiple calls at the same root level affecting polling, through an hub). 

[datacommando]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:16 PM, ninecows said:

Unless line6 specifically state that it will not work with USB3, people are not wrong in expecting it to work. Especially if it has been working for years. And they definitely don’t deserve to be flamed for assuming it would work. 

 

It's not flaming anyone, its just simple facts about various USB ports, connectors, cables and hubs along with all the "voodoo" that surrounds it.

 

It has all been discussed for a very, very long time among the threads in the forum.

 

As pointed out by @PierM in the post above, it about other things that are also connected at the same time. In much the same manner as the update release notes recommend users should not  have other audio apps running while updating, and especially with Macs, don't let them lose focus while updating. There are lots of posts on here where people have complained about losing USB connection, only to reveal later that that they were watching YouTube, listening to Spotify or whatever. It happens to everyone at some point I guess.

 

I leave my USB connected to the Helix USB2 from a (USB3) port on the rear of my iMac, and never have a need to disconnect it. All my other USB stuff - Arturia KeyLab61, X-touch Controller, 2 printers, 5 external hard drives, and various other peripheral pieces hook up via a Belikin Thunderbolt 2 Express Dock HD and a USB hub. I know that there are certain thing on my Mac which will cause HX Edit to fail to connect. Simple solution, I don't try to open HX Edit while running a large 3D render in the background. It has been this way since first buying the Helix 2015, and very seldom do I experience USB disconnects, and if I do they generally could have been avoided by a little forethought.

 

This has been done to death - this horse is now dead.

 

Or, type “random usb disconnects” into Google and watch it light up.

[codamedia]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:16 AM, ninecows said:

The USB 3 standard is more than 15 years old. To sell a product today that is (randomly or suddenly) incompatible with USB3 is not something that can be excused by writing USB2 in the manual.

 

USB 3 backward compatibility has been flakey at best over the years... some machines are really good at it, others are not. I have my Helix connected to a USB 3 port... just because it works for me doesn't mean it will work for everyone. 

 

Regardless of what you connect, when having problems with USB there has always been three rules... even if these don't give you problems with other peripherals. 

1. Don't use a HUB
2. Try a different cable
3. Try a different port

One of those will solve the problem the majority of the time. Every computer is unique... every user is unique in the peripherals they have connected (yes, they can interfere with each other). There is no single answer.