Brand-new HD500X ... huge volume differences between presets

[JTSC777]

does plugging into the effects return of an amplifier bypass everything and just go straight into the power amp itself...

if so , would running it straight from there  into  a mixer and then out to FRFR speakers ...

give me what would amount to tubey sounding FRFR guitar signal ?

and  what routing what I use in the mixer to keep that sound pure ?

Yes it goes straight to the power section of the amp.A tube power section really warms these HD units up but they sound good into a decent FRFR speaker too.You cant go straight out of the power section for a bunch of reasons.If you use the powere section of a tube amp you will still have to mic the cab or speaker.I use a little Sennheiser 409 and just hang it over my amp/cab. If you go FRFR you should use a cheap passive direct box( or an expensive one if you like) and split the signal from the HD.One goes to your FRFR speaker(1/4 in.) and the XLR from the D.I. box goes to the front of house mixer/speakers.This way you can turn up your FRFR powered speakers without changing the front  of house mix.Works great when I don't or cant use one of my tube amps power section/speaker.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[bobwilken]

Yes it goes straight to the power section of the amp.A tube power section really warms these HD units up but they sound good into a decent FRFR speaker too.You cant go straight out of the power section for a bunch of reasons.If you use the powere section of a tube amp you will still have to mic the cab or speaker.I use a little Sennheiser 409 and just hang it over my amp/cab. If you go FRFR you should use a cheap passive direct box( or an expensive one if you like) and split the signal from the HD.One goes to your FRFR speaker(1/4 in.) and the XLR from the D.I. box goes to the front of house mixer/speakers.This way you can turn up your FRFR powered speakers without changing the front  of house mix.Works great when I don't or cant use one of my tube amps power section/speaker.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 actually , JTSC777 , that was extremely helpful..... thanks for taking the time to 'splain it to me !!

 

cheers and beers

[Martinyp]

It seems to me that the original issue still stands. Firstly, I agree with everyone that recommend creating patches rather than using the presets. I invariably end up creating patches with just an amp model and very little else. The less things in the chain mean less time endlessly tweaking.

 

Regarding the presets though. I agree that they are provided with the POD to showcase the tonal possibilities. As far as I am concerned if I was trying to demo a POD in a shop environment (or when it is first unboxed at home to show a friend how cool it was) I would expect that I could connect a guitar to it then plug it into a physical amp (or PA / Headphone) and with the amp and guitar volume remaining constant switch through the presets without alternating between insanely loud and quiet as a mouse.

 

One of the first things I did when I got my POD HD500 was to go through each preset and adjust the output volume to be consistent. I could then switch between any patch without the fear of deafening myself. If I then change guitar all presets change equally relative to the guitar. If I turn up master volume on the physical amp then all presets change equally relative also. If I substitute the physical amp for studio monitors I only need to adjust the single volume on the monitors as all the presets volumes are still matched relative to each other.

 

As each patch has the ability to control the overall volume without affecting the tone there is no excuse for Line 6 not shipping the POD's with each preset volume normalised.

 

Like I say though. I do create my own patches but on the odd occasion I just want to goof around with the inbuilt presets. They need to be useable right out of the box. This means they need to be at the same volume. 

[meambobbo]

Bob u can certainly use the pod like that in studio/direct mode with a cab/mic selected. In other modes or with "no cab" itll be quite harsh. Not all guitar power amps are the same. Some have quite the impact on tone and may not offer tons of headroom, so keep that in mind

[panaman]

i really am extremely happy with my pod. really. but: there can be no excuse for not levelling and normalizing all patches, at least to a degree.  this goes for the line6 demos and all the sounds from the good people uploading their stuff to customtone.

sure, everybody has their unique equipment, with varying level requirements, but this applies to all patches consisently.

i understand that real amp models produce different volumes and effects have other issues with peaks and clipping. thats why i got a modeller. i wanted things sorted out and useable, working together.  if i wanted the "real" thing emulated with all its flaws, i could be asking for a bad cable effect simulation with a random button, not visible in the chain, to make things more interesting.

above, the sticky "what tones do you want l6 to build" may hold the solution: no need to build, just level the existing ones please.  l6 should know best what the best levels are. it may take several manhours, much better than many thousands of customer hours when every1 has to do it individually...

meanwhile, we could try to  define a standard by uploading a basic tone as a reference for everbody to compare their levels to, if a general agreement on proper level is possible at all .

maybe a suggestion on vol and/vs. master settings could help.  seems to me all equipment should be able to cope with 2 levels: single coil strat and humbucker gibson.  in my setup, humbuckers appear twice as loud.    the pod should add sound but no significant volume.

[stumblinman]

 

I nominate you

 

i really am extremely happy with my pod. really. but: there can be no excuse for not levelling and normalizing all patches, at least to a degree. this goes for the line6 demos and all the sounds from the good people uploading their stuff to customtone.

sure, everybody has their unique equipment, with varying level requirements, but this applies to all patches consisently.

i understand that real amp models produce different volumes and effects have other issues with peaks and clipping. thats why i got a modeller. i wanted things sorted out and useable, working together. if i wanted the "real" thing emulated with all its flaws, i could be asking for a bad cable effect simulation with a random button, not visible in the chain, to make things more interesting.

above, the sticky "what tones do you want l6 to build" may hold the solution: no need to build, just level the existing ones please. l6 should know best what the best levels are. it may take several manhours, much better than many thousands of customer hours when every1 has to do it individually...

meanwhile, we could try to define a standard by uploading a basic tone as a reference for everbody to compare their levels to, if a general agreement on proper level is possible at all .

maybe a suggestion on vol and/vs. master settings could help. seems to me all equipment should be able to cope with 2 levels: single coil strat and humbucker gibson. in my setup, humbuckers appear twice as loud. the pod should add sound but no significant volume.

[Guitarmaniac64]

As long as i have been using multieffects "since the late 80:s" and later multieffects with amp simulation this has been a problem and that goes for everyone i have tried.

Even with very expensive ones and very cheap ones

And it is even worse when you dl patches/presets from internet

[meambobbo]

I will say that the kemper makes leveling very easy since you dont have to worry about gain staging causing digital clipping. You just turn the patch volume knob and save. Most effects have volume parameters so you can compensate if necessary

[JTSC777]

When I get frustrated with this multi-effect stuff(patch leveling/clipping/fizzing/weird e.q.s/cabinet model woofiness etc...) I take a small pedalboard(Fulltone/DS-1/Delay) and a good tube amp to my gig and kind of reset my self.It helps me to get what I want out of my HD500.I am constantly comparing it to the real thing.I think a lot of players here are trying to record with it(HD500/X) using the full amp modelling and I can see where that can be rather difficult.I don't think I could do it myself. In the studios I record in I use pedals/M13 and a tube amp or two.

[FrozenOzone]

As long as i have been using multieffects "since the late 80:s" and later multieffects with amp simulation this has been a problem and that goes for everyone i have tried.

Even with very expensive ones and very cheap ones

And it is even worse when you dl patches/presets from internet

 

I totally agree.  I have been using multieffects since the late 80's as well. All of my previous multieffect units have had this same issue with volume leveling.  It would be nice to not have to worry about this but it's the nature of the beast with most multieffect units.

[Indianrock2020]

I read almost everything here.  Was there a conclusion that putting the mixer at the end of each patch was ok?   So far I don't use volume pedal effects at all and leave the expression pedal all the way down at all times ( not used ).  Master volume knob 100%.

 

 I do need to even out the patches so the sound guy gets the same signal level.( church situation - all in-ears with no amps on stage )   Right now I'm only using two patches -- one has dotted-eighth delay set in advance for a song ( not using tap tempo as there isn't time for that ).  The other patch is sort of generic AC30 with some hall reverb and a touch of chorus after the amp with overdrives assigned to footswitches before the amp.  The screamer and a parametric EQ are assigned to a single footswitch since the EQ is to tailor the OD.

Noise Gate>OD+eq>amp>MIXER>chorus>reverb         So I'm wondering about putting the mixer at the end for the purpose of leveling the patch volumes.

[JTSC777]

Don't turn up the master on the POD all the way.Leave some headroom. I put the mixer right after the amp and it works for me.I dont use it to level things out so much.I use the channel volume for that.Use the POD computer software for editing if you aren't already.That gives finer control over the channel volume. You of course can put the mixer anywhere you like and see if it works.I recommend experimentation.I personally have used the HD500 a lot at big churches with IEMs/ no amps and I really like it a lot for that application.Be sure to adjust all cab parameters by using Meambobos guide. It is available here on the forum. The cab deps' are critical for the kind of setup you are describing.

 

Good Luck!

[Indianrock2020]

Thanks JTSC777   Support here is really great.  I'm constantly encouraging people not to give up on the PODs -- there is a learning curve but no heavy amps to tote, etc etc.

Ok so System master knob should not be at 100%.   I can't seem to move the mixer in HD Edit.    

 

I've been setting the amp channel volume quite high ( using the AC30 TB more than anything else but trying the Highway 100 lately for less clean situations ).     Where the amp has it, I turn the amp "master" parameter almost all the way up and in cab parameters set the low cut and res level to about 9 o'clock.

 

The only clipping I've ever experienced was today using the Tube driver, AC30 and an analog chorus.  Turning off the chorus got rid of the clipping.  Screamer doesn't seem to overload the chorus.  Moving the chorus ahead of the tube driver solves it but I don't think that's where chorus should be.

[ppiluk]

I have used a variety of Multi-Effect pedals and every one of them have suffered from this to a certain degree. It is a side effect of attempting to reproduce the amps faithfully. The same thing is true with the Variax. Some pickups are louder than others. 

 

Both the POD HD500x and the Variax need some effort to get them working exactly the way you want them to...but the effort is rewarded. 

[bptrav]

If you are using any user-created customtones then a mixer is almost a requirement it seems like to me.  People use such vastly different setups (different pickups, different output connections, different master volume on the POD, different volume on their amp/monitors/PA, etc) that the volume difference from patch to patch can be dramatically different.

 

For your own patches though you can usually get them all to similar volumes without a mixer, although it takes some tweaking (especially taking into account any volume differences various effects/pedals are causing).  A mixer does make it a lot easier though, and if you are using multiple different setups I imagine leaving some headroom on the POD master volume would also help (as JTSC mentioned)

 

P.S.  I've had mine for 5 days so I'm certainly not an expert.  This is just what I've found so far.

 

 

I can't seem to move the mixer in HD Edit.    

 

Yeah I haven't figured that out either, although it sounds good to me in the default place (right after the amp).  I've seen a couple user-created patches that have pedals between the amp and mixer though, so it must be possible.  The vast majority seem to just place it right after the amp though, for whatever that's worth.

[CipherHost]

Yeah I haven't figured that out either, although it sounds good to me in the default place (right after the amp).  I've seen a couple user-created patches that have pedals between the amp and mixer though, so it must be possible.  The vast majority seem to just place it right after the amp though, for whatever that's worth.

 

If I understand what you want, just drag any block just behind (to the right) of the amp. You will see a black bar letting you know where the block will rest when you release. 

[bptrav]

If I understand what you want, just drag any block just behind (to the right) of the amp. You will see a black bar letting you know where the block will rest when you release. 

 

Thanks that's exactly what I was wondering.  I was trying to drag the mixer itself which wasn't working, and didn't even think of trying to drag the pedals for some reason.

[Indianrock2020]

Yes I see you can move effects in front of the mixer to get the mixer at the end of the chain.

 

 

I think I'd rather avoid clipping and level my output for the sound guy by leaving the master almost all the way up and never touch it again ( balancing patch volumes with the other adjustments .)  I mean the master knob on top of the unit ( some amps also have a "master" adjustment )

From the advanced guide:  "Having said all that, it is recommended that you start with the

Master Volume control set to minimum and slowly turn the

control clockwise towards maximum before any audio clipping (the

bad kind of distortion) occurs."

The only time I noticed clipping it sounded like a pop in my home stereo system ( which is my monitoring setup ) and so far has only occurred running tube drive in front of amp with analog chorus farther down the chain.

[duncann]

If you use a single amp, you can also put the amp after the mixer to control the level via the mixer going to the amp.

[Antman74]

Hi

 

After coming from a Digitech rp500, which was more of a "plug in and play" device with minimal tweaking, my HD500X seemed daunting at first. I did youtube a lot of videos and read up a bit before deciding on buying it and knew it was a lot more involved and you could edit deep into the details, which is what I wanted.

 

I think the presets already installed as others have mentioned are just to get you going (I haven't used any of them). It seems like it takes ages to create sounds but after a while it becomes easier. I'm now whipping up patches to my liking ranging from my own material needs to bands I like and play their songs etc..

 

Start with the Amp sound and add from there. I think once you start to create a few patches you can set the volume on each to sound the same.

 

It looked like at first I was tweaking sounds more than playing but it was worth it as I'm being rewarded with good sounds now..and it's a constant ever changing challenge to get the right sounds I want.

 

Have fun...that's the main thing. This unit is really amazing when you see what it can do.