MiroslavKloud Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If our guitars is okay, so do not mind, if we start to upload to YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Pseudo expert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 JtvTube just starting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3PEzrnEONo When I have more time, I'll do another.One video convince anyone, but when they will 50 ...So he guys also join, or a rectification never will. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geamala Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 JtvTube just starting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3PEzrnEONo When I have more time, I'll do another. One video convince anyone, but when they will 50 ... So he guys also join, or a rectification never will. Good on you for posting. Hopefully this will set the record straight that this is not an imagined issue or something like burs on the nut. This is an issue with the electronics. In any case it shouldn't be happening. It will put prospective buyers off from purchasing a Variax which would be an amazing tool if it did not have this fault. If it were an issue with the firmware then every single variax running the same firmware would have the same problem but it seems that most people don't have this problem but many do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It's not electronic, it's a problem with the piezos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edstar1960 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Thanks for posting the video MiroslavKloud - I can clearly hear that horrible clanging overtone on the low E. I hope Line 6 address this issue and fix it for all affected users. I am incredulous that they had it for 11 weeks and didn't fix it and in fact stated they could not hear anything wrong with it. What is going on???? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hi, I already wrote (in more detail) above: the problem has a mechanical cause. It's a sort of vibration string / bridge, on which the magnetic pickup reacts minimally. The piezo but is very sensitive to this. This oscillation is normal, but vary on different guitars and different strings. When using the modeling, it is necessary to remove these frequencies - filter. On a string A5 exist the same phenomenon (even more pronounced), yet working normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Crocco Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 To the guys that are still having issues with the pinging, a small amount of filing on the piezo casing has absolutely fixed the issue 100% for some of us. Clink the link below and start with KatieKerry's post #102. http://line6.com/support/topic/111-make-your-variax-sound-100-better/page-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 How has Line 6 not corrected these issues in their quality control yet? I really hate how when people send in guitars with sound issues like this, they just send it back and say there's nothing wrong. If it doesn't sound as advertise, IT'S NOT A SUBJECTIVE TONE ISSUE, it's an ACTUAL tone issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snhirsch Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I concur. That noise is definitely mechanical in origin. Either the string is slapping vertically against the transducer or the entire transducer is slapping against the bridge casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geamala Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 For the record here's my guitar doing the same thing. https://soundcloud.com/antconnelly/variax-wtf-overtones-on-lowest-string 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I concur. That noise is definitely mechanical in origin. Either the string is slapping vertically against the transducer or the entire transducer is slapping against the bridge casting. The emergence of this vibration is a normal. I found that the same thing is going on my other guitars - Fender USA Stratocaster and Aria Pro II (superstrat). Various guitars and various strings is however different - frequency / volume. Maybe because some Variax with one firmware work well, others badly. More detailed explanation is here: http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/?p=112445 - Post # 237 - it is a copy of message for the service center. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Crocco Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The emergence of this vibration is a normal. I found that the same thing is going on my other guitars - Fender USA Stratocaster and Aria Pro II (superstrat). Various guitars and various strings is however different - frequency / volume. Maybe because some Variax with one firmware work well, others badly. More detailed explanation is on the previous page - Post # 237 - a copy of the message for the service center. It's not firmware, its mechanical. File the Low E piezo casing and you can get on with enjoying your guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It's not firmware, its mechanical. File the Low E piezo casing and you can get on with enjoying your guitar. Why the string A5 is fine, even though has greater mechanical problem than the string E6? Why if is exchange wires from piezo A5-E6 is E6 fine and the problem is on the A5? Please look the images in my previous post. However, I agree that if eliminate mechanical cause, there is no need to deal with the firmware. The gap between the string and the casing is big on my guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBalancer Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) JtvTube just starting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3PEzrnEONo When I have more time, I'll do another. One video convince anyone, but when they will 50 ... So he guys also join, or a rectification never will. I think I get it, but.. something is wrong with that sentence man.. "hey guys" simple things make you seem like a noob (I've extensive experience with that elsewhere for [at least] ~2/3/5-6/7[?] years (online, and perhaps my entire life everywhere), me BEING the n00b), so I'm trying to embed your video here: :lol: "My FAVORITE :-)" (EDIT#?: it was well put, I guess, but I'm not sure what it really means) - https://youtu.be/N3PEzrnEONo?t=54s Vid embedded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3PEzrnEONo&t=54 EDIT#?: Being embedded here on line6.com/support/topic/... makes the original statement starting the vid suddenly technically untrue :rolleyes: BUT what you mean is clear. And also, from the start before embedding, Line 6 was saying that that's how it's supposed to sound like (based on a different [test] music/sound-clip/track though, right?); so again, technically Line 6 stands by their current (HD) modelling on www.line6.com. Might become a part of the 'team-spirit (re-)affirming technical and political loopholes..' Based on what a few other users said, HX-based Variax-guitar FW (possibly only for the then recent Variax guitars) might really improve things when it's end-user-ready by the end of 2017? If that has anything to do with it. Default Youtube embedding format doesn't work here, like: <iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N3PEzrnEONo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> You can, however, use the "Media", "Special BBcode" icon (hover on it to see description), third from top-left, next the pencil-eraser icon in the 'Full Post Options' (paraphrasing). I suggest everyone bring specific vids and playback positions to everyone's attentions here, otherwise the feedback will be fragmented and won't reach the target audience as easily as otherwise. "Special BBcode" "Media" 'code' formatting: [ media ] Youtube/media URL (specific 'playback position' seconds count will be ignored, use a normal link to further specify, you might want to use a Youtube comment as well) [ /media ] (without the space between start- and end-tag-character [square brackets] ) Perception management is a lollipop.. (oh, it's not a poo reference this time, it's the word originally meant to reference a female dog, instead used to reference an aspect of humanity; I'm not sure why that word was ever used for that, oh well, it makes describing the reference easier :P ) And I'm no pro, no lollipop/poo[again]; I don't care <_< I'll keep my 'unsightly' references to a bare minimum. Zen Balancer (Gaia's) 12 minutes ago Less money (afterwards; a loan counts!); more problems (besides less money)? Boooo.. But (Yamaha) Line 6 still has no contest, overall. End-users, however, should indeed be listened to even better with such clear use-cases. I can't verify myself though; no relevant skills + more recent model (I've different issues; I'll also keep clarifying mine as well clearly on their table, little by little). On my part I demand improvements, nevertheless. Zen Balancer (Gaia's) 1 second ago ... I don't know if Line 6 is right about that's how the original Profiled guitar is supposed to sound like, thus also through the Modelling. We will see. I support (Yamaha) Line 6, however. But I'm full of, criticism.. EDIT#?: Also, about: The emergence of this vibration is a normal. I found that the same thing is going on my other guitars - Fender USA Stratocaster and Aria Pro II (superstrat). Various guitars and various strings is however different - frequency / volume. Maybe because some Variax with one firmware work well, others badly. More detailed explanation is on the previous page - Post # 237 - a copy of the message for the service center. It might be bothersome, but linking to the actual post/text/etc.. might motivate others to actually read what you're referencing, like Post #237. Here is a way I found to easily reference posts, that is impervious to failure due to (future) changed OP-thread-title/name (not sure about [future] changed Domain Name or the like): "Special BBcode" "Post Link" 'code' formatting: [ post='PostIdFoundAtEndOf#inURL' ] PostDescriptionOfYourChoice [ /post ] (without the space between start- and end-tag-character [square brackets] ) PostID in bold green: line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/page-6#entry112445 Didn't go through the content, so green is just to point out it's safe I guess? Of course, I'm still figuring things out. EDITs: content corrections + addition + post-processing + clarity. Edited August 30, 2015 by ZenBalancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 For the record here's my guitar doing the same thing. https://soundcloud.com/antconnelly/variax-wtf-overtones-on-lowest-string Please create your own video. More videos - more hope that they will take it seriously. I suggest use also palm muting - problem the most striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBalancer Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) For the record here's my guitar doing the same thing. https://soundcloud.com/antconnelly/variax-wtf-overtones-on-lowest-string Please create your own video. More videos - more hope that they will take it seriously. I suggest use also palm muting - problem the most striking. He actually needs Soundcloud for being able to comment within the 'waves' to clarify in that context. So it doesn't have to be one-style for all. He could make a complementary video to make the test-case-scenario even more clear and comprehensive within different contexts, if time, current skills and circumstances allow. EDIT: added the post he replied to. Edited August 30, 2015 by ZenBalancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CipherHost Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I think I had things a little confused until I wrote it out. Does this look right? Ex. 1: Piezo E6 is defective and piezo A5 is not defective. Post piezo circuits are not defective. I hear the problem when I play the E6 string. A5 string sounds fine. I swap the wires from the E6 and A5 piezos into the circuit board. I still hear the problem when I play the E6 string. A5 string sounds fine. Ex. 2: Post piezo circuit for E6 is defective and post circuit for A5 is not defective. Both piezos are not defective. I hear the problem when I play the E6 string. A5 string sounds fine. I swap the wires from the E6 and A5 piezos into the circuit board. I hear the problem when I play the A5 string. E6 string sounds fine. Firmware? I suppose it could cause all sorts of problems, but other than re-flashing or trying different versions, I don't know how you would troubleshoot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I think I had things a little confused until I wrote it out. Does this look right? Ex. 1: Piez..... If I understand the question correctly - my situation is corresponds to Ex.2. The circuit board was replaced at a service center. Piezos and also the entire bridge exchanged previously in another service center. Solutions in the firmware - reducing the frequency of around 1.7kHz (so as the input for A5) Various versions of the firmware might be the solution. Or automatic detection of problem frequencies. Or allow individual settings in Workbench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I had a situation where I swapped a new piezo on me E string with an old one from another string because the new one was having the same problem as the topic. The problem went down significantly but was still there. It's definitely an issue with the piezos. For some reason, the E string's gauge just makes the problem easy to arise. It sucks, but they need to do QC tests on their guitars to check if any of their guitars have any problems with the string tones so they can replace the problem hardware with correct ones. Sending out a $1k to sell to someone with a defect is not excusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 "If it were an issue with the firmware then every single Variax running the same firmware would have the same problem but it seems that most people don't have this problem but many do"--- that is correct. As far as Firmware goes,... "Spank", the Fender Strat sound,... sounds the way it does, because that's the way the guitar that was modeled sounds. Some of the test points shown that used for the FFT displays would not be good examples to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 A You Tube audio,... now there is something usable. A video watching you do it, would be even better. I'll mull this over. In the meantime, make use of the equalisers on the HD500 to trim out a frequency profile more in keeping with what you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 "If it were an issue with the firmware ... Various guitar + various strings = different frequency / volume of disturbance. The same firmware does not work with a different disturbance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's definitely an issue with the piezos. Disturbing frequency on the E6 string (1.7 kHz) is audible even when the guitar is unconnected. On the string A5 is audible even through the magnetic pickup (frequency 1.9kHz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 "... is audible even when the guitar is unconnected"--- If it's doing that when it's unconnected, then the comment earlier about it not being electronic or Firmware, means that it's mechanical in nature. The electronics only put out what is inputted into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBalancer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) A You Tube audio,... now there is something usable. A video watching you do it, would be even better. I'll mull this over. In the meantime, make use of the equalisers on the HD500 to trim out a frequency profile more in keeping with what you are looking for. A suggestion: why not link-to/upload/etc.. a POD HD500(X) Patch (containing the relevant equalizer settings 'pre-set') that you think would improve his (EDIT: guitar's) sound? Just for the relevant test-case-scenarios. I believe there is also a language barrier, until the musical one manages to bridge-it-over once again. Working with non-textual (but contextually relevant) digital-files that contain each one's intent and knowledge, seems much more effective and possibly more efficient. Only if you have easy access to relevant gear/Patch-search-engine/etc.. Edited August 31, 2015 by ZenBalancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 "... is audible even when the guitar is unconnected"--- If it's doing that when it's unconnected, then the comment earlier about it not being electronic or Firmware, means that it's mechanical in nature. The electronics only put out what is inputted into it. http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/?p=112738 #252 - Is it absolutely incomprehensible? And this? http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/?p=112445 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The electronics may amplify the problem, But, if this occurs even when the guitar is not plugged in, then the source is not electronic,... it's mechanical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBalancer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/?p=112738 #252 - Is it absolutely incomprehensible? And this? http://line6.com/support/topic/6764-do-you-have-the-same-problem-with-6th-string/?p=112445 I know I wrote a lot, and I remember that you told me via Youtube that you're dependent on an online presumably automated translation service, yet know that the linking style you're using (even though you did use links as well this time) these links will break if the name/title of the Thread/Topic changes. Here is the code and the links in a more dependable way, feel free to use the code and remove the spacing to activate them in a new reply: Post #237 / #entry112445 Post #252 / #entry112738 Feeding 'code' : [ post=112445]Post #237 / #entry112445 [ /post] [ post=112738]Post #252 / #entry112738 [ /post] The electronics may amplify the problem, But, if this occurs even when the guitar is not plugged in, then the source is not electronic,... it's mechanical. Prove it: A You Tube audio,... now there is something usable. A video watching you do it, would be even better. I'll mull this over. In the meantime, make use of the equalisers on the HD500 to trim out a frequency profile more in keeping with what you are looking for. A suggestion: why not link-to/upload/etc.. a POD HD500(X) Patch (containing the relevant equalizer settings 'pre-set') that you think would improve his (EDIT: guitar's) sound? Just for the relevant test-case-scenarios. I believe there is also a language barrier, until the musical one manages to bridge-it-over once again. Working with non-textual (but contextually relevant) digital-files that contain each one's intent and knowledge, seems much more effective and possibly more efficient. Only if you have easy access to relevant gear/Patch-search-engine/etc.. No point arguing. EDIT: effectiveness + correction + clarity. Edited August 31, 2015 by ZenBalancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The electronics may amplify the problem, But, if this occurs even when the guitar is not plugged in, then the source is not electronic,... it's mechanical. The string A5 creates much worse disturbance. Tell us, why there is no problem with string A5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Taking the signal from the piezo or the DSP is not indicative of the output. The output has gone thru the processing and amplfiers. The piezo has not. No label as to if it's the DSP output, or a chip at the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The FFT displays are nice, but nothing to show me how your test is set-up. As you have pointed out,... not 100% objective. The You Tube is a good start, but I can't see what or how you are doing what you are doing. The piezo FFT indicates transients the you have labeled. That would point to something with the piezo and/or something before the piezo. The only thing before the piezo is mechanical. Therefore, not DSP or output, or electronic,... therefore, not the Firmware. Firmware models the guitar it is meant to model. Modeling is a template, a mask thru which the signal passes thru. There is a ring in the You Tube audio. I sound like that when I flat-pick. Part of the reason I finger-pick (which is most of the time). As you pointed out, this occurs even when,... not connected. The mechanical is the source, the electronics are the processor/amplifier. Make use of an equaliser to band-reject the frequency set you find objectionable. It's about sculpting that sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 "the source is not electronic, ... it's mechanical" - I say the same thing had long. But this is a normal phenomenon - the most strong on the string A5. "The electronics May amplify the problem" - yes, on the string E6 is this problem. On the string A5 the electronics works properly. DSP - frequency response (electronics frequency response) - is not 100% objective. Directly from the piezo - is 99% objective - direct connection piezo-HD500 (3.5MOhm) Audio output from guitar - is 100% objective. You did not answer the question: Why there is no problem with the string A5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBalancer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) MEME TIME !!!! !!!! huh.. ME ME time? :blink: Just watching the steam.. not the gaming platform. My newbie brain can take only so much.. You're both right? Try the equalizer solution/workaround/something.., video yourself playing it (your hands and the guitar in view), COUNTER-prove that you did your part, and tried the Line 6 Staff's suggestion. Yes please @MiroslavKloud. :ph34r: EDIT: nobody else is seeing what I'm seeing up and down this Thread/Topic? Am I missing the point? Where is my blind spot? I need some sort of optician-eye-glasses.. EDIT2: at least a Line 6 Staff member is replying; better than nothing.. now we can go around in circles, together. EDIT3(2015-09-02): instead of their original sources; re-hosted the images on Dropbox just to be sure they remain. Edited September 2, 2015 by ZenBalancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I've found that the 3.5-Meg Ohm input is the noisier one. Tend to not use it. Some players like though. There was a lower Z-in setting I showed Robert Sarzo once,... he liked it. Not as much noise floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ????? Directly from piezo - not electronics, not modeling.... Piezo requires high impedance! I am convinced that Line6 knows very well where the problem is. Meanwhile but you do not want or can not solve. You did not answer the question: Why there is no problem with the string A5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I still think it's a Quality Control issue with their piezos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiroslavKloud Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I will try to summarize the information about my guitar. Hopefully it will be at least somewhat comprehensible. 1) The strings E6 and A5 produce a parasitic frequencies. String E6 - approximately 1.7kHz, string A5 - approximately 1.9kHz (in addition there are harmonic frequencies). Frequencies were determined by measuring of the direct signal from the piezo (electronics disconnected), audible they are also at unconnected guitar (unplugged). On the string A5 is audible also through magnetic pickup. 2) While using the modeling - the problem is only with the string E6. 3) The piezo sensor E6 was replaced - no improvement. 4) The complete bridge was replaced - no improvement. 5) I swap the wires from the E6 and A5 piezos into the circuit board. - The string E6 is OK - The problem is now on the string A5 6) The electronics was replaced - no improvement. Options to solve the problem: - adjustment of the firmware - weaken the parasitic frequency on strings E6 (on the string A5 this works good) or - find a reliable way to reduce mechanical cause (at least for strings E6) The most difficult task: convince Line6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 #6- The work order I saw said that some electronics were replaced don't know specifics beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 #2 thru #6,... are saying this was done? Or are you asking if it was done? In the meantime, I will look into the service history further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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