Do You Have The Same Problem With 6th String?

[jackoloki]

First of all, I am neither knowledgable about guitar construction, nor guitar set-up. I bought my US JTV- 69 in 2011 without any understanding of how to analyze the integrity of it's construction. It appeared to be very well made, and it still does. There wasn't a rough edge to be seen. 

 

Upon first receiving it, I didn't even plug it into anything. I just wanted to see how it felt in my hands; how it played. As I played it, I noticed the E string would occasionally slip off the edge. I didn't think it was a problem with the design, but more a deficiency in my technique. I'm not a great guitarist. I silently vowed to clean up my playing style.

 

Then I plugged the guitar into my HD500 and was appalled at the heinous, digital-garble sound that was being produced along with the intended tone. It was only noticeable when I played near the middle of the neck. I posted my problems somewhere on this board (probably archived now). No one else seemed to be having the same problem, but suggestions regarding further set-up prompted me to take it to my local Guitar Center (it had already been set-up by Sweetwater where purchased). The guy at GC, who has years of experience, set it up, but failed to actually plug it in to an HD500 (they had a Pod XT family unit). Anyway, it sounded good in the store as I played it through the XT unit (string still occasionally slipping), but when I got home and plugged it in to the HD500, the heinous sound remained.

 

I related my problems to a recording engineer friend of mine. He asked me if I could detect any string buzz at all. I didn't think there was, but after listening very closely, I could hear it. He said that, while buzz is not an issue on normal electrics, some DSPs don't process string buzz very well. He said if I eliminate the buzz, the problem would probably go away. So I took it to a different (veteran) guitar specialist, lent him my HD-500, and asked him to do what he had to do to eliminate the string buzz, and to then test the guitar on the HD500 unit. When I got it back, it sounded great. The action, however, was way higher than I was comfortable with. And the string slipping was worse than ever. Completely frustrated, and depleted of funds (having spent $4000 by this time), I set the guitar aside and proceeded with my current recording project using other guitars.

 

Over the past two years or more, I have only occasionally picked up the guitar. Every time I play it, I get this sick feeling in my stomach. I hadn't been on the Variax boards and wasn't aware of the fact that the slipping was a common problem and that there was a 'fix'. However, a few days ago, I picked up the guitar and actually noticed the difference between the two distances: that of the top E string and the neck, as opposed to that of the bottom E string and the neck. The bottom E has almost HALF the clearance. I also noticed that the strings do not center over the pickup magnets: they ride low. I thought that maybe it was a problem with the neck being slightly off kilter, and that if it angled upwards more, the new nut position would cause the strings to reposition more and more, the closer they got to the highest fret, finally centering the strings where the neck ends. This, I believe, is the reasoning behind the nut 'fix'. The problem with this 'fix' is that, at the nut, the strings are perfectly positioned on the neck. So, the problem can't be with the nut.

 

Then I took some measurements of the bridge, and noticed that it is not where it should be. Following the lines of the neck, the bridge is positioned about 1/16" lower than it should be. The pick-ups are in-line, but the bridge is not. Additionally, the bridge angles slightly; it isn't parallel to the frets (not as big of an issue, as the intonation can be adjusted to correct this).

 

So, in my opinion, the problem with the design JTV-69 is that the holes for the bridge were drilled in the wrong place. 

 

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

 

 

 

[psarkissian]

jackoloki,

 

If there is Hi-E slipping, that can be fixed. Call the Line 6 Support

Line so they can give you options on how to proceed.

[FrozenOzone]

Hi psarkissian,

 

What is the fix for the E string slipping off the fret-board?  I have a JTV-89 and have complained about this since I got the guitar. It's not the hi-E it's the low-E string that falls off the fret-board.  I was going to try a different nut or even a new neck but if there is a fix please let me/us know.

[psarkissian]

FrozenOzone,

 

For an 89/89F, have a tech check and re-align the neck. Nut position can

also be a factor. That's part of my standard check list when I do a set-up.

Yours might need a slight dial-in since I worked on it last.

 

The reason for the Hi-E slip thing on the 69 is usually for a different reason.

[clay-man]

FrozenOzone,

 

For an 89/89F, have a tech check and re-align the neck. Nut position can

also be a factor. That's part of my standard check list when I do a set-up.

Yours might need a slight dial-in since I worked on it last.

 

The reason for the Hi-E slip thing on the 69 is usually for a different reason.

 

I'm going to try to get a JTV 69s in the future and I've read a review that the problem was on there too for a customer.

 

Obviously when you're bending the notes you want to bend the strings away from closest edge of the neck, but this sounds like it happens regardless of bending.

[psarkissian]

I hear about this off and on from those who do string pulls or Gulf Coast Chicken Scratch Blues.

The only time it happens to me on my 69, is when my playing technique isn't up to par at that moment.

[Charlie_Watt]

Back when I bought my 69S from Sweetwater, I looked very closely at the pix of the actual guitars.  Some of them you could see that the strings were not centered on the neck correctly.  I picked one that looked good and I have had no problems.

[FrozenOzone]

FrozenOzone,

 

For an 89/89F, have a tech check and re-align the neck. Nut position can

also be a factor. That's part of my standard check list when I do a set-up.

Yours might need a slight dial-in since I worked on it last.

 

The reason for the Hi-E slip thing on the 69 is usually for a different reason.

 

Thanks for the response.  I will check it out and see if the neck is off a little bit and make adjustments as needed. As for the nut, I am not comfortable in making any adjustments since it lies on the fret-board in a weird way.  I think I still have a month warranty left.  Should I send it in to get adjusted?

[psarkissian]

There is a general string-to-edge clearance spec that I set to, and I have the tools.

We don't usually bring them back for a set-up issue (check with the support line on

those options). But if there is something off about the neck, I'll be able to check it out.

 

I make a point of playing a variety of styles so that I cover most of the bases. From

what I recall, your 89 played nice when it was in last. 

 

Also, it is standard with me to do set-up for the climate of the end destination (ie- your locations).

If it's a smidgen off after four days of acclimatisation, take it to a local guitar tech to get that final dialing-in.

[colinohare]

Don't know if this is the same problem but there is clearly a problem with the top E string Piezo My band mate had to have his replaced on his JTV 89FR it just broke down and now line 6 have my JTV89 with exactly the same problem. Quite concerning . I only hope they've made some modification to the Piezo otherwise it's pretty likely to happen again.

[gsimonelli]

I just got mine yesterday and it has this same problem. Firmware 2.10.   

[stumblinman]

I just moved the nut on my 59, but I will need to move it a little more next time I change strings. Just a smidge and it should be perfect.

[Achilles61]

I have the JTV69 and the aforementioned sound is painfully obvious on the Lester low E string. I started a thread on this before and received very little feedback. It's obvious that many players can hear it and it is amazing to me that the response from Line6 is that it's a setup issue, but only after how much denial? It appears to me that there are design flaws or idiosyncrasies that make these guitars erratic. But, since the flaw we're discussing here is prevalent in a number of guitars, there must be a specific reason for the dreaded low E "honk" as I call it, which should be fixable. I am still fiddling and hoping I can fix mine without sending it back for weeks on end to have it "repaired". Returning a guitar for 7 weeks and having it "fixed" yet not really, is a bit scary to me, because apparently Line6 doesn't yet have a handle on the issue. I have strayed from the Lester sound unless it's a song where I don't dwell on the low E sound. Avoidance. Playing a song like "runnin done a dream" sounds pitiful.

 

If the 12 string warble and the low E honk were fixed, this guitar would be everything I imagined. For now I can only hope a fix is coming.

[pda041376]

At the risk of being discounted for bringing to life an old topic:

I got my jtv-89f in yesterday. After trolling boards and experimenting I can say this:

I've only gotten the plink sound when in standard tuning. If I switch to drop D or any other tuning the models react well. Is this normal and the tinny sound can be excepted as par for the course on standard tuned models or is there a magic setting that will fix the very tinny palm mutes on the 6th string when in standard tuning?

[clay-man]

I've had this problem on my Variax as well. It's EXTREMELY annoying.

 

I lessened the problem by swapping out a piezo from another saddle to the E string. The Les Paul model still has it pretty badly in E standard, but it sounds good when tuned down. Other than that I use a custom model which gets rid of the sound.

 

 

I believe the problem stems from an oversensitive piezo being in the E string. You can hear the sound when scrapping your pick against the string. 

 

Any time I hear a guitar was sent in and Line 6 says "Oh it's normal" and then goes on a tangent about how it's normal because of string mass, it makes me pretty mad, because it's obvious that the design of a proper working Variax ISN'T supposed to make that sound, so there's no excuse.

[cruisinon2]

At the risk of being discounted for bringing to life an old topic:

I got my jtv-89f in yesterday. After trolling boards and experimenting I can say this:

I've only gotten the plink sound when in standard tuning. If I switch to drop D or any other tuning the models react well. Is this normal and the tinny sound can be excepted as par for the course on standard tuned models or is there a magic setting that will fix the very tinny palm mutes on the 6th string when in standard tuning?

Definitely not normal, and certainly not universal...otherwise L6 would have been overrun by angry villagers with pitchforks by now.

 

It's odd that it only shows up in standard tuning. Most of the time it seems that the alt tunings make the "piezo plink" worse. More DSP = more problems.

 

These guitars are funny...and this particular issue seems to affect the 89's more so than the others, at least thats what I gather from what I see around here.

 

Bad piezo, too much fret buzz fouling up the DSP, ringing behind the nut, lots of theories get thrown around as to the cause. Frankly, I don't think anyone knows what causes it half the time...good luck.

[clay-man]

Definitely not normal, and certainly not universal...otherwise L6 would have been overrun by angry villagers with pitchforks by now.

 

It's odd that it only shows up in standard tuning. Most of the time it seems that the alt tunings make the "piezo plink" worse. These guitars are funny...and this particular issue seems to affect the 89's more so than the others, at least thats what I gather from what I see around here.

 

Bad piezo, too much fret buzz fouling up the DSP, ringing behind the nut, lots of theories get thrown around as to the cause. Frankly, I don't think anyone knows what causes it half the time...good luck.

 

The problem is that it's an appauling overtone at a certain frequency that makes it sound highly unnatural. When you put it through the Alt Tuner it'll mess with the sound and basically make it sound normal.

 

I barely use the Lester model on my 600 because of this, but I do use a C standard variant a lot because it sounds just fine.

 

Line 6 needs to find exactly what causes this, as it's obviously not normal, and correct it whenever someone has this problem. No "string mass" excuse.

 

I can understand that the setup can play a part of it showing up, then why don't they setup the guitar?

 

 

I love Line 6,  but whenever I hear a guitar sent back and still have the problem, there's no excuse. 

[clay-man]

Also, to be honest, this is probably why I'm never getting a used JTV. If I get this problem when I get one I'm sending it back until I get a proper one.

[cruisinon2]

It would drive me nuts too...I suspect that if they really knew the cause, it would have been addressed by now. The guitars have been around long enough now, if it was fixable they'd have done it. I really think its a case of a mystery clog in some fairly complicated plumbing. Why listen to the chorus of complaints if you don't have to?

[pda041376]

Well played around in the editor and it can be made to go away so I guess this isn't the same issue others were reporting. Instead of lowering global volume I raised it and moved the virtual pickups around on the body.

I also noticed that while it was making the odd sounds it wasn't universal, so maybe I lucked out?

[ChrisCT]

I just got my 2nd (Replacement) JTV-89F from Sweetwater, the first one went back because L6 had installed a JTV59 board, and the modeling and tuning knobs were all wrong, misplaced I should say. It came up as a JTV59 on Workbench. Just got my new JTV-89F Replacement and I am noticing that the Low E string is barely audible compared to the other strings. And this is happening with and without modeling. After reading this string, I am not sure that the 89F is right for me if these issues are inherent with the Graphtec? Would I be better off sending back this 89F and getting a 59 hardtail? Thanks Guys!

[ChrisCT]

Or maybe a 69 with no Trem. I wanted the 89F for the complete package of 24Frets and Tremolo, but if it is at a cost of having a dead string. What is my best bet 69 or 59 compared in terms of the most likely getting one that just works? - Thank you.

[cruisinon2]

Or maybe a 69 with no Trem. I wanted the 89F for the complete package of 24Frets and Tremolo, but if it is at a cost of having a dead string. What is my best bet 69 or 59 compared in terms of the most likely getting one that just works? - Thank you.

The 69s all have a floating trem. 59 has the stop-tail. Also, if you're a fan of thin, flat radius necks like the 89 has, then you probably won't like the neck on the 69. It's a baseball bat. Fortunately this can be remedied, but it means laying out more cash for a replacement.

 

I've had good luck with my 69, as far as funny noises go...although the alt. tunings are not perfect on any of them. Piezo crosstalk with palm muting can be an issue depending on your playing style. I had to make some physical adjustments especially using drop D tuning..theres an old thread about it somewhere.

[clay-man]

Well played around in the editor and it can be made to go away so I guess this isn't the same issue others were reporting. Instead of lowering global volume I raised it and moved the virtual pickups around on the body.

I also noticed that while it was making the odd sounds it wasn't universal, so maybe I lucked out?

 

This issue shouldn't need adjusting of the presets in Workbench. String volume sure, but editing pickups?

 

There's a difference between not sounding like what they're modeled after (debatable) and not sounding like it was intended to (something is wrong)

[pda041376]

This issue shouldn't need adjusting of the presets in Workbench. String volume sure, but editing pickups?

 

There's a difference between not sounding like what they're modeled after (debatable) and not sounding like it was intended to (something is wrong)

Yeah agreed, that's why I am not sure it's the same issue as others were reporting. Haven't messed with it enough yet to see all the chinks in its armor but not displeased with the purchase as of yet. Being a line6 user for a long time (I guess all account info got wiped when forums changed) I understand there is a learning or using curve typically associated with the equipment. I was here for the x3 dropped audio over USB debacle and many other of the "widespread" issues with different products and services it still makes me a bit jumpy when I get new equipment from line6 and of course I look for the known issues before looking for the good.

[psarkissian]

pda041376--- your account info is still there.

[Achilles61]

I can't say for sure yet that I've fixed the problem, but there are a couple important notes that have brought me closer to solving the plink/honk issue on the low E string. I noticed posts about damping the strings above the nut. I used an elastic and it helps with the audible acoustic overtones, but I don't think it affects the Plink/honk. However, vibrations below the bridge makes more theoretical sense to dampen. So I happened to have some silicone tubing .062" dia. and I fished it underneath the small space beneath the bridge so that it dampened the strings below the bridge. I feel like there has been an improvement in the sound. A larger diameter tube is ideally needed, or a 2nd .062", but that's a tight fit. I'll continue working on that. Next, I cannot get rid of the fret buzz on the low E, no matter how uncomfortably high I set the action at the bridge. I know that contributes to the odd overtones. I may loosen the truss rod although there seems to be enough of a arc in the neck. Anyway, it's a 69. If anyone else gives the bridge dampening a shot, please shout out. Maybe we're on to something here.

[clay-man]

The easiest way to hear the problem is to use a tube screamer as a boost into a high gain amp. treble set a little high.

 

Yes, gain will maximize what you hear, but the problem is that it shouldn't be there in the first place. Every single string besides the 6th string sound nice and warm, and fine. The sixth string has the plinky attack.

 

I don't see how Line 6 technicians can't hear that out.

I've heard Variaxes that don't have  this issue, so obviously it is a problem, 

[stumblinman]

jackoloki,

 

If there is Hi-E slipping, that can be fixed. Call the Line 6 Support

Line so they can give you options on how to proceed.

Is this only on the 69? I have it on my 59, but I moved the nut and that made it a little better.

[burningyen]

I've been pretty happy with my JTV-69S, posted a few demos of it on soundcloud, and even did a recent gig with it. But at one point last night I brushed the side of my palm over the 6th string saddle and heard that surprisingly loud high-pitched ringing. Now I can't unhear it as I'm playing. My guitar has probably been susceptible to this from the beginning and I just never noticed it. I'm hoping that one of the damping tricks (felt, tubing, teflon tape) will help.

 

I was using a low-gain Hiwatt profile in my Kemper and the Duojet model with Filtertrons in my JTV, if that makes any difference.

[clay-man]

I've been pretty happy with my JTV-69S, posted a few demos of it on soundcloud, and even did a recent gig with it. But at one point last night I brushed the side of my palm over the 6th string saddle and heard that surprisingly loud high-pitched ringing. Now I can't unhear it as I'm playing. My guitar has probably been susceptible to this from the beginning and I just never noticed it. I'm hoping that one of the damping tricks (felt, tubing, teflon tape) will help.

 

I was using a low-gain Hiwatt profile in my Kemper and the Duojet model with Filtertrons in my JTV, if that makes any difference.

 

I haven't used the Duojet model for a long time since I swapped it out for alt tunings on my 600 (one of the reasons I ordered my JTV) but is that the only one it happens on? How about the Les Paul bridge model?

 

I also kind of hear it on the single coil models but it doesn't sound too bad since single coil models are pretty twangy, but it definitely sounds really bad on the Les Paul model. 

[pda041376]

And now I am afflicted... Is it possible to have the problem "settle in" after playing it for a while? There was a very slight high-pitched overtone when I got the guitar that was ignorable but now it is acting up something fierce. I did try to rollback to previous versions and reinstall the current but that did nothing. And this is occurring on les, spank, special and 89 models. I think the semis don't have it and the jazz only shows on a some of the stock settings. 

 

I know that setting the tone at 5 the shrillness that is added to the palm mute gets cut dramatically and I can use my HD500x to add some of the cut frequencies back. I do wonder if the tone knob is normal or a boost/cut as the 89 model pickups (didn't know about those presets until reading through other stuff) do not match the tone of the magnetic 89s at full tone (10) but rolling it back does make the modeled pickups match the mags. 

 

In any case, I tried the felt thing (makes it worse?), I've tried the software flashes, have not tried the string swap or piezo swap. 

 

I think clay said he swapped his A and E piezos, I wonder if it needs to be those or if the E and e can be swapped. Does anyone know the color code used for the strings vs piezo connector? It looks like these are plugged sockets so I guess I could just pull each in turn but why reinvent the wheel? 

 

Another thing I am looking to explore is the xml files used for the settings, if I can find the setting that controls tone I wonder if it is possible to eq just the one string... It seems like the other settings are in xml files but have not dug around enough to see if I can find the tone setting. 

[burningyen]

I raised the height of my low E string saddle last night, and it seems to have helped a lot.

[pda041376]

I raised the height of my low E string saddle last night, and it seems to have helped a lot.

I raised the entire bridge a quarter turn last night but didn't seem to do anything. Will try just the saddle raise but will need to get shims as it is the 89F model. 

[xavifontanet]

Here another player with a recent buyed jtv89f with the same plinky noise at the 6 string when playing with palm muting and some distorsion, have to say that in some different modelling I can heard it in the 5th more than the 6th.

In addition I can notice (as another user mentioned as well), that the volume of the 6th sounds higher than others with both magnetics and modelling. Also I noticed always another metallic sound on the 6th string.

I'm very annoyed seeing the experiències that people had here with line 6 support... The store doesn't accept return and all this sucks a lot. Will open a ticket but don't think it will solve anything.

[clay-man]

Here another player with a recent buyed jtv89f with the same plinky noise at the 6 string when playing with palm muting and some distorsion, have to say that in some different modelling I can heard it in the 5th more than the 6th.

In addition I can notice (as another user mentioned as well), that the volume of the 6th sounds higher than others with both magnetics and modelling. Also I noticed always another metallic sound on the 6th string.

I'm very annoyed seeing the experiències that people had here with line 6 support... The store doesn't accept return and all this sucks a lot. Will open a ticket but don't think it will solve anything.

 

try to pick the floating string behind the saddle and see if it makes a similar noise. If it does, then it's resonating sound when you pick the 6th string and you need to dampen it.

 

If not, then you might have an oversensitive piezo.

[bond19]

I have had my Jtv59 for a few months now, and noticed the bad sounding low e from day 1. I have tried many different things to try to get rid of it, but I cannot. I bought this guitar used, and would like to get it fixed, as in magnetic pickup mode it plays and sounds great. What options do I have? I am in Canada if that comes into play.

[bond19]

I have read other posts which mentioned an over sensitive piezo. Where can I get a replacement part for my Jvt59?

[davidb7170]

If you think it's too high level compared to the others, you should at least try adjusting the global string level for the hot one in HD Workbench, reduce the offending string. If it's only on one model, you can adjust them on each model, also. If it turns out to be a bad piezo, you can try this place for a replacement:

 

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/445135.html

 

I've gotten replacement parts here before. They're kind of pokey about shipping, but they do come through.

 

Dave

[clay-man]

There's no guarantee that it'll fix it either. I'm not 100% sure what causes it but sometimes it has to do with the piezo.

The thing is, it's usually more or less to do with if you have a plunking noise when palm muting, and not just the E string in general sounding off compared to the other strings.

 

Now, most guitars naturally do have a bit of a overtone on the 6th string that the other strings don't have, but the problem is that it's over-exaggerated on these problem Variax guitars.

 

If I switch between mags and spank on my 69s, all the strings except the 6th string sound very identical, and the 6th string has thing clanky overtone.

Again, it's natural, but over-exaggerated, and it shows when playing.

 

It's at it's worse when you tremolo pick the E string. Laying the pick flat instead of slanted helps reduce the sound.

 

Either way, it's kind of a "live with it" thing at this point for me.

 

My very first Variax sounded perfect, but I thought there was an issue with the processor (sadly it was just a firmware glitch)

My first replacement, I noticed the 6th string sounding awkward, so I asked for another replacement.

My final guitar that I have now still has the problem. 

 

Some people argue that it's normal because it's hard to point out unless you are actually playing the guitar, but I really do think it's an issue, because like I said, my very first guitar didn't have this problem.