codamedia

This is a great thread... thanks @DunedinDragon for your tests and insight into this.

Why won't it? Plug the 1/4" outputs to the inputs on the back of the Apollo.... if it clips, turn down the output of the stomp, or turn down the input on the Apollo until the clipping stops. There is no reason it won't sound great! If you are going to the computer with the Apollo... it IS the digital conversion. IMO: Don't complicate matters with a pointless digital device in the chain... just hook it up as I suggest above and let the Apollo do the conversion. You bought a device without a SPDIF out... that means you have to use the 1/4" outs. It's not a big deal, and it will sound just as good once you get the input levels set. The only real difference is that you can't take advantage of the SPDIF input on your Apollo. Keep in mind the STOMP is also an audio interface of it's own. If you want to record the guitar completely in the digital realm the only way is to go direct from the stomp to the computer via USB.

On the unit itself... Select the effect you want to assign from the signal flow view Then Press and hold the ENTER button to display the Footswitch Assign screen Use Multi-function Knob 1 to select the footswitch you want assigned to this effect If there is already an effect assigned to that footswitch... it will combine them so you need to identify what you want before you begin to make sure you don't end up with any surprises. In HD500 Edit Go to the Controller page Do your work in the "controller section" of the "controller page"....The "footswitch section" only SHOWS you what is assigned to what, you do not change it there but it is a great instant visual Under Model... choose the EFFECT you want to assign a controller to Under FS Assign.... choose the footswitch you want to assign it to NOTE: If you assign more than one effect to the same footswitch... it will display as "Multi" in the Footswitch section.

When there is a sound tech and FOH capable of doing the job then I leave the fronts to to them and point everything back at me. I never want to be the guy that sabotages the mix by blasting my guitar off the stage. If the PA is vocal only, or if the PA needs to be supplemented with some stage guitar tone then I will carefully direct something toward the front from behind me.

Yep... that same engineer probably spends more time placing a '57 in front of a 412 cabinet. Actually... I did watch too much of that video... he uses Palmer load boxes to avoid cabinets/mic placement.... IMO that's borderline ironic. I wonder what would have happened if he had used the Palmer in place of a cab/mic sim in the Fractal? His test is lacking so may details it could have been the Palmer that made the difference - he didn't appear to take the time to eliminate that.

For those interested... this comes up at about 1h40m into the video (yes, I was bored this morning).... (basic summary of what actually is said) He does not say he created the tone... the 2nd guitarist in Keith Urban's band had created a fractal patch to match his live rig which was a clean boost into a Marshall Super Bass. He says the tone sounded the same in the PA when isolated, but was lost when in the mix. He goes on to say something was missing, but has no details of how the patch was created, accepted the tone as provided, and no attempt was made at the "fractal level" to make it work.... if there was, he doesn't mention it. Looks like that Fractal got 15 - 30 minutes of time and was disregarded... if people think that's a fair judgement of a piece of gear then there is nothing left to say.

@xmacvicar I didn't want to quote your full opening post, but that is what I am referencing here... You keep saying it sounds great when recorded, but doesn't sound like a real amp when compared to a real amp. There is a vital distinction you are missing and/or have completely overlooked. When the HELIX is used with an FRFR (like your setup is) it isn't suppose to sound like a real amp... it is suppose to sound like a real amp through a microphone. The microphone chosen and the position it is placed has a huge impact on the tone. For a proper comparison, you need to mic up the amp and listen to it through the FRFR like you are listening to the Helix. That is the difference between "Amp in the room tone" and "recorded & FOH tones". Admittedly you say you are a "non gigging guitar player" and thank you for doing so - it puts things in better perspective as we try to help you. Any guitar player that gigs has a "what the hell is that" moment when they hear their tone through a PA for the first time. It is "that sound" the Helix is delivering... and that is the sound you are shaping.

I learned a long time ago that musicians "can be" really closed minded... that L&M employee seems to be one of them. Our L&M stores here in Winnipeg has them as well :) (BTW: L&M head office would not be happy with that employee for his reaction and closed mind) Give three players a JCM800 One will make it sound like a wall of mud The next makes it sound like a mosquito The next makes it sound glorious The thoughts from the peers (musicians in the wings)... 1&2: The guys got great gear but his tone isn't very good (user is blamed) 3: Wow that Marshall sounds great (amp is praised) Give three players a Helix (or any modeler for that matter) One will make it sound like a wall of mud The next makes it sound like a mosquito The next makes it sound glorious The thoughts from the peers (musicians in the wings)... 1: Modelers always get lost in the mix (blame the gear) 2: Modelers always sound thin and brittle (blame the gear) 3: He seems to get a good sound out of that thing (spiteful praise of the user) Amps and modelers are just tools... Ultimately (based on knowledge and ability) it is the USER that makes it sound good or bad.

No, you cannot connect it there.

FWIW... they are both simple to figure out. I prefer working on the hardware... but when I open HX Edit is just becomes "another way" to do it. I don't find it better, just different. The only time I "rely" on the editor is for backups/restores and IR management. Other than that, I really wouldn't miss it - yes, the UI on the hardware is that good - IMO.

I don't see it mentioned here (at a glance) but do we know what amp models are being used? He already has great gear, so if there is "ear pain" maybe it in the way the Helix is setup? Sometimes simple changes to "cabinets" and "mics" can make a world of difference. @xmacvicar can you share a patch, or an audio sample of your patch? Also - out of curiosity what part of Canada are you located?

Although slightly off topic... I think it would be great if we could just assign a footswitch to do whatever we want... a snap or a stomp. Using this thread as an example... if I had three unused "snapshots" I'd love to just insert 3 stomps in those positions for quick access without changing modes. But I digress, that doesn't exist, it is a feature request, and we must work with what we have for the time being :)

Absolutely... either way will work and that's a good point about the last one being the dominant tone, but it is for that reason I do it the opposite than you would. Since I use the Tee-mah for my overdrive tones (varying the setting per snapshot) I put the 808 ahead of it just like I would if I were goosing the front end an overdriven amp with the 808. Again.... I'm not suggesting my way is better.... it's just how I do it.

Not me.... I don't play at any different volume & I get warm rich tones. FWIW, I am not a very loud player... just enough to blend with everyone else on a stage.

You seem to have talked yourself out of the Helix and Powercab... that's fine, it's not for everyone. The two pedals you mention are "pre-amps" so.... IMO, no - they will not give you the tube sound from a Power Amp....

Since when did the headphone jack cut off the outputs on a HD500(x)? If there is some hidden setting in the HD, I am not aware of it. If I don't want sound at my speakers, I turn the speakers down or unplug them.

I'd insert a SEND that goes to the back of your amp rather than use the 1/4" outputs for that. After the send you would insert your cab/ir which makes it all the way to the outputs. Of course... if you need access to the volume control the option @Kilrahi provided above would be a better route.

IMO... you don't need those products to make the Helix sound good. I'm not dissing those products, they are great.... but so is the Helix and it shouldn't "need" them. When you used an amp did your tones compare favorably to the other guitar players? Are you setting up the effect chain different with the Helix than you did when you ran a regular amp? Can you provide an audio or video clip of your tone? Can you share one of your presets so we can see how you dialed it in? Of course... we also need to know how you have set your power cab which only some of us have.

In a live situation I am all about consistency with my tones... rather than use multiple amps (even 2) I use just one model, which is how it would be if I carried one of my amps to a gig. I setup a deluxe reverb (normal channel) along with an Ownhammer IR (dlx reverb cab / v30 / mic combo of 421 and 121). It's one setting for all, it doesn't change with snapshots at all. I then setup my "pre effects" the exact same way I would setup my pedal board... including a Timmy for overdrive tones and a Tube screamer to push the timmy into oblivion on occasion. The Timmy (Tee-mah) is really versatile at setting up a variety of overdrive tones through snapshots that are really consistent. After the amp is a setup of effects the way I would run them in a studio... such as delay, reverb and the LA Studio Comp to put some polish on the final tone. I'm not saying that's the right way, or the best way. That's just what works best for me :)

I've played countless rooms that are more than big enough to require full sound re-enforcement when the console might end up being a 24 channel Mackie, or an A&H, or a basic Soundcraft. I've seen the likes of Bill Wyman, Albert Lee, Redd Volkaert, Marty Stuart, NGDB and many others in some of those same rooms with the same gear. You simply have to work with what you are given sometimes. Respectfully, we should just agree to disagree on this matter.

Sure...they may not own the best consoles - but many small to medium size clubs are real venues that provide real gigs and pay in real money :) In those clubs I see many A&H, Soundcraft or Mackie 16 - 24 Channel boards that have a common phantom power. A lot of venue's also went to the Mackie digital consoles (run from iPads) and those are usually have common phantom power. Just because you are fortunate enough not to run into a board with common phantom power, that doesn't mean they aren't in the wild. Not to mention... aside from phantom power, the boards work just fine at their intended purpose.

I've read that as well... but it leaves more questions than answers. What exactly do they mean by anti-pop... Toggling on/off the unit doesn't pop in the outputs? (< assuming this one) Unplugging the XLR doesn't pop at the board? (kind of impossible to do that one) Unplugging the XLR doesn't pop at the Helix through other outputs? and when did that "non-standard" take precedence over the standard of being able to use the XLR jacks without any worry like they always were with previous Line 6 devices? (and the vast majority of 3rd party devices on the market) IMO - this engineering oversight is even sillier than the HD500 not having a power switch. Not enough to anger me, but it certainly makes me shake my head.

Great suggestion.... IMO: don't underestimate the power of the third option in that list... the global reset. As shown in that list.... not all "factory resets" include a global reset. It's easy to get lost in the global section and forget what the defaults should be and in the case of the OP.... there is no way to know what might have been changed on the replacement unit before being sent.

Some people get along fine with the stock cabs, others do not. The nice part about the Helix is that you have both options... stock cabs OR IR's. As for the Stock Cabs.... They were captured with a MIC pointing at the center of the cone. That produces a brighter, sometimes fizzier sound and there is no way to move that mic toward the EDGE like many people prefer. I'm not fond of the "default mic" that many of them load, especially when it's the '57. Don't get me wrong... the '57 has it's place, but not when pointed at the center of a speaker. For a dynamic mic I much prefer the 409 (Sen), 421 (Sen) or 20 (EV) The ribbons are much warmer ... pull them back a few inches for smoother sounds. It's a good idea to experiment with all mics and distances on any cabinet to find the one you like best. FWIW.... I use an IR live because I love the consistency but in the studio I take the time to dial in a stock cab.

This will sound condescending but I really don't mean it to be... I don't see it mentioned anywhere above so I must ask the question :) Have you turned up the volume knob? Here are two tests you can run. Be careful with these as both bypass the volume knob so it could get really loud. What happens if you set the volume knob to XLR Only in the Global settings then try the 1/4" out? What happens if you insert a SEND BLOCK just before the output then try using that instead of the 1/4" out?