Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
drew_fx

Will Helix have the 'on the fly saving' that the M-Series had?

Recommended Posts

IE: Make some edits.... turn the unit off.... those edits are retained....

 

That was a big feature with the M series, and it just occured to me that it would be cool if the Helix had it as a system pref too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't have the same "autosave" function, no. I think it's so much more complex in the routing and other options, that it might actually make the user experience trickier if such a feature existed. One thing that the Helix does, though, is remember the settings of the patch you've edited even if you haven't saved if you turn off and turn it back on. But in order for them to be remembered when switching from patch to patch, you'll have to save the patch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The HD500 also remembers the unsaved altered patch if you turn it off then on again later (without making a patch selection change). Pretty much comes back in the state it was turned of in... This helps if I have to leave the editing session then come back later to pick up the process. I mostly edit my 500X on the unit itself.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to see a mode where Helix would autosave the values mapped to the potentiometers on the fly, so that you could tweak EQ, gain, and master volume for a given "channel" mid-performance and not have to worry about hunting for a save button (and waiting to confirm overwrite, etc.)  This would make the experience more like driving a channel switching tube amp with independent tonestack etc controls.

 

So far the only digitial modeling amp I've seen that nailed this concept was the otherwise much-maligned Roland GA series.  But I always thought that was a big selling point.  Maybe I'll throw it on the massive IdeaScale pile.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far the only digitial modeling amp I've seen that nailed this concept was the otherwise much-maligned Roland GA series.  But I always thought that was a big selling point.  Maybe I'll throw it on the massive IdeaScale pile.   :)

 

DTs do this.

 

Helix's file management is very different from that of M13 and M9. The latter boxes are designed specifically to behave as closely as possible to real pedals on your pedalboard. Helix is fully programmable, and there's a huge advantage in being able to revert to when the preset was last saved. Perhaps an optional auto-save feature might work, but it probably shouldn't be on by default.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps an optional auto-save feature might work, but it probably shouldn't be on by default.

 

Cool re: the DTs.  I never got a chance to try one.

 

Yes, I appreciate your point about sometimes wanting to be able to revert, and I agree that this should be optional.  That's why I used the word "mode" above - essentially, a performance mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly it would have to be a preference and not on by default. But I imagine a lot of people are going to be using this unit as a pedalboard replacer. Is what I'm planning on doing!

 

I might even try the modelling live as well though... I've tried the Axe FX II and the Kemper in the past. Had more success with the Kemper, so who knows... could be a potential direction to go in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also vote for selectable auto-save on Helix. Switching back to a previously adjusted preset to find inappropriate settings again is annoying, especially during a live performance in which I do not need any more tasks added to simultaneously playing guitar, singing, maintaining eye-contact with the audience, listening to other band-members and remembering the next chord/lyric.

 

This would not add any confusion to the user interface.  Just ship the unit with this disabled… it only becomes a feature when a user activates it.  Here is one way that this could work… adding the word “autosave†to a preset name would activate the auto-save function.  No factory presets need include this.  This would guarantee the user intends for the preset to auto-save, and the preset name will remind you of auto-save status.

 

If this is too much to ask for, how about being able to set a foot switch to a function called “save preset to current presetâ€.  At least then you could save while you’re standing up in performance yet before you switch presets.

 

Since the Helix has so many presets, a user could simply copy their valued presets to another “back-up†bank to ensure they do not get overwritten accidentally. Copying a “backup preset†to an accidentally edited preset would restore your original settings.  .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually do not know that I would like that. I understand why some would and it makes sense. For me it would just be something else to get turned on by mistake and confuse me when I couldn't get a model to reset to its default value. What might work though would be a lock feature. Lock the specific preset down until the unlock button is pressed .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with DI that "if" they did have auto save it needs to be optional and default to not on... it wouldn't be bad if there was an "undo last action" button.  Here's a real life observation why...  now that I'm comfortable getting around my Helix, I'm moving quick to edit my blocks...  although the joystick is nice, it also adjusts parameters by twisting, so when you're pressing left, right, up or down, it will sometimes accidentally spin as you're moving across blocks.  If you're not paying attention, you can change any block and loose the parameter adjustments you've made (like if you accidentally switch an Amp model that you've been tweaking for a while).  I have to admit, that became very frustrating last night.  Save Often!!!

 

 

DTs do this.

 

Helix's file management is very different from that of M13 and M9. The latter boxes are designed specifically to behave as closely as possible to real pedals on your pedalboard. Helix is fully programmable, and there's a huge advantage in being able to revert to when the preset was last saved. Perhaps an optional auto-save feature might work, but it probably shouldn't be on by default.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At a bare minimum the Helix should have a toggle for whether changes to presets are auto-saved or have to be explicitly saved. Does this exist? Nice to haves but in my opinion not critical features include being able to retain settings and state when unit is turned off; also the ability to undo or compare sounds is nice but not a must have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

although the joystick is nice, it also adjusts parameters by twisting, so when you're pressing left, right, up or down, it will sometimes accidentally spin as you're moving across blocks.  If you're not paying attention, you can change any block and loose the parameter adjustments you've made (like if you accidentally switch an Amp model that you've been tweaking for a while).

 

yep, same here... it's gonna take some getting used to...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with DI that "if" they did have auto save it needs to be optional and default to not on... it wouldn't be bad if there was an "undo last action" button.  Here's a real life observation why...  now that I'm comfortable getting around my Helix, I'm moving quick to edit my blocks...  although the joystick is nice, it also adjusts parameters by twisting, so when you're pressing left, right, up or down, it will sometimes accidentally spin as you're moving across blocks.  If you're not paying attention, you can change any block and loose the parameter adjustments you've made (like if you accidentally switch an Amp model that you've been tweaking for a while).  I have to admit, that became very frustrating last night.  Save Often!!!

The first day, I moved the joystick by pushing in the desired direction from the opposite "side" of the joystick. I could not, for the life of me, get it to move without turning the knob and therefore, changing the model. I realized then that, if I pressed from the "top" of the joystick, at the very edge of the knob in the direction that I want to move, I can make the cursor move in the direction I want, without rotating the joystick. It took very little getting used to it and now I can move all over the screen without worrying about changing the model. Try it, it works very well.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first day, I moved the joystick by pushing in the desired direction from the opposite "side" of the joystick. I could not, for the life of me, get it to move without turning the knob and therefore, changing the model. I realized then that, if I pressed from the "top" of the joystick, at the very edge of the knob in the direction that I want to move, I can make the cursor move in the direction I want, without rotating the joystick. It took very little getting used to it and now I can move all over the screen without worrying about changing the model. Try it, it works very well.

 

Thanks for the feedback DL... but still having the problem no matter where I press.  I will say that pressing from the top made a little difference, but every third or fourth time... bam! it flips a block and if I forgot to save, I have to start all over again...  For me this has become extremely frustrating.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback DL... but still having the problem no matter where I press.  I will say that pressing from the top made a little difference, but every third or fourth time... bam! it flips a block and if I forgot to save, I have to start all over again...  For me this has become extremely frustrating.  

If you haven't already, try resting your fingers on the back edge of the Helix (close to where all the I/O connectors are) for stability. Then, using your thumb only, place it at the very edge of the joysick and push it outwards in the direction that you want to move. With my hand braced like that, the joystick hardly ever rotates and, after a few times that you do that, it will be like second nature. In the week and a half that I have been doing that, the joystick has not rotated on me even once. Also, if you wrap your fingers so that the fingertips are resting on the back of the Helix, you will not leave fingerprints on the top :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you haven't already, try resting your fingers on the back edge of the Helix (close to where all the I/O connectors are) for stability. Then, using your thumb only, place it at the very edge of the joysick and push it outwards in the direction that you want to move. With my hand braced like that, the joystick hardly ever rotates and, after a few times that you do that, it will be like second nature. In the week and a half that I have been doing that, the joystick has not rotated on me even once. Also, if you wrap your fingers so that the fingertips are resting on the back of the Helix, you will not leave fingerprints on the top :)

I've tried all sorts of ways... including resting my fingers on the back edge (minus the wrapping)  I could never be a surgeon and guitarist always wonder how I can pull off the chops that I do with the sausage fingers I'm sportin'...  lol  I'm one of those dudes with the vise grip hand shake.  I'm surprised I haven't snapped the joystick off yet by accident!  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the combination joystick/knob is the only ergonomic mistake on the Helix in my opinion. I believe it would have been better with a separate rotary encoder, and four arrow buttons next to it.

 

Loving the Helix otherwise.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first day, I moved the joystick by pushing in the desired direction from the opposite "side" of the joystick. I could not, for the life of me, get it to move without turning the knob and therefore, changing the model. I realized then that, if I pressed from the "top" of the joystick, at the very edge of the knob in the direction that I want to move, I can make the cursor move in the direction I want, without rotating the joystick. It took very little getting used to it and now I can move all over the screen without worrying about changing the model. Try it, it works very well.

 

Great tip but I would still love to see Line6 either make it so the joystick had to be turned further before it starts to scroll the amps and effects.  Or, alternatively if that is not possible, would love to see a delay of a second before the joystick starts scrolling.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great tip but I would still love to see Line6 either make it so the joystick had to be turned further before it starts to scroll the amps and effects.  Or, alternatively if that is not possible, would love to see a delay of a second before the joystick starts scrolling.

How about making the Joystick detection give "priority" to the Joystick side motion over the down press or the turning motion? The firmware could check whenever the joystick is rotated, whether there is side motion or downward press within 1/4 - 1 sec before or after (maybe configurable in 1/4 sec intervals to adapt to each user?). If so, then it ignores everything other than side motion. The reason I said "configurable" vs 1-sec fixed is because 1 sec is on the "probably too long" side... Whenever I have turned the joystick by mistake while trying to cursor up/down/left/right, the turning occurs within a +/- 1/4 sec of me pushing towards the side.

 

If Line 6 sets the delay too long and it is not configurable, then there will likely be a whole set of users complaining that turning the joystick is not responsive anymore and also there will be the usual trolls demanding that the change be rolled back on the next release of the firmware under pain of getting DI tarred and feathered... and I don't think anyone here wants to see that :)  or I'm sure "eye bleach" prices will go up due to the spike in demand.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...the combination joystick/knob is the only ergonomic mistake on the Helix in my opinion. I believe it would have been better with a separate rotary encoder, and four arrow buttons next to it....

 

perhaps a decent pc editor wld resolve this mistake....

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

perhaps a decent pc editor wld resolve this mistake....

 

I am sure an editor is coming and that will be a huge plus but it still seems as if it would be easy enough to make the joystick less prone to accidental changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about making the Joystick detection give "priority" to the Joystick side motion over the down press or the turning motion? The firmware could check whenever the joystick is rotated, whether there is side motion or downward press within 1/4 - 1 sec before or after (maybe configurable in 1/4 sec intervals to adapt to each user?). If so, then it ignores everything other than side motion. The reason I said "configurable" vs 1-sec fixed is because 1 sec is on the "probably too long" side... Whenever I have turned the joystick by mistake while trying to cursor up/down/left/right, the turning occurs within a +/- 1/4 sec of me pushing towards the side.

 

If Line 6 sets the delay too long and it is not configurable, then there will likely be a whole set of users complaining that turning the joystick is not responsive anymore and also there will be the usual trolls demanding that the change be rolled back on the next release of the firmware under pain of getting DI tarred and feathered... and I don't think anyone here wants to see that :)  or I'm sure "eye bleach" prices will go up due to the spike in demand.

 

Agreed, a configurable delay on the joystick scrolling would be ideal, I simply threw the one second suggestion out there as a method of addressing the issue in the event that the amount of turn before scroll can't be adjusted. I have no idea how many milliseconds the right delay would be and it may vary as you point out from user to user.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, a configurable delay on the joystick scrolling would be ideal, I simply threw the one second suggestion out there as a method of addressing the issue in the event that the amount of turn before scroll can't be adjusted. I have no idea how many milliseconds the right delay would be and it may vary as you point out from user to user.

 

Just noticed we seem to have gotten a bit off topic here. Back to:

Will Helix have the 'on the fly saving' that the M-Series had?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just noticed we seem to have gotten a bit off topic here. Back to:

Will Helix have the 'on the fly saving' that the M-Series had?

 

I made a new topic to continue the joystick discussion without hijacking this thread: http://line6.com/support/topic/16343-moving-the-joystick-without-rotating-split-from-on-the-fly-saving/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×