Manual should include precise instructions on connecting to different devices

[willsmythe37]

Not a massive complainer but I do think there should be more informative detail in the manual paid to the connection of the device in differentiating scenarios.

The manual is pretty straight forward... but the many different ways to connect the device depending on your situation seems to missing entirely.

Perhaps this is down to the very large signal routing options.

It should be clearer though.

 

Say "want to connect to your actual Amp and Cab"

- Do this

- Use these blocks in this combination

"going 4CM"

- Use these sim blocks

- Position them here

- Want to use the cabs? put them here"

- Check your Line/Ins settings are correct through the signal chain

 

"Best positioning for your effects blocks"

- Distortions before AMP (If this is correct)

- Modulation Before or after Amp?

- Delay and Verb after CAB (If this is correct)


I mean, the Forum is a great resource, but actually I've had very differentiating advice from users regarding connectivity to amps.

I don't mean to come across as a newb either, but I do think there are some hard and fast rules to this and there isn't (as I'm aware) any concise usage resources.

[Joepeggio]

I think like you. I like precise instructions, but in defense of Line 6, the Helix is so versatile, there are too so many ways to configure, nearly impossible to print them all. Line 6 does include sample ways to route in the Templates patches, remember to back them up and save in a different patch so you don't lose the template (they are not protected).

 

I come from the analog world so I used the same logic for pedal order etc.

 

Coming to the Helix with some experience, helps tremendously. I think Line 6 expects that. Looking back, after a spending thousands of dollars and countless hours researching and experimenting in the pedal / amp world, I wish Helix was there from the beginning. I would have saved a ton of time and money.

 

The different advice you get isn't wrong, just different and it works better for their situation.

 

Check out the Helix page on Facebook. Awesome resource. Everyone there is willing to help and learn (we are all still learning) from the most complex to the simplest questions.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/line6helixusergroup/

 

 

Also, I think because the Helix is so new, even the Line 6 folks don't know all there is about the Helix and routing. I'm sure on occasion, they get the "wow, why didn't I think of that" moment.

 

 

Sorry I didn't answer you questions here. Best to ask specific as you can and one thing at a time or the answers will be all over the place.

[cruisinon2]

I think like you. I like precise instructions, but in defense of Line 6, the Helix is so versatile, there are too so many ways to configure, nearly impossible to print them all. Line 6 does include sample ways to route in the Templates patches, remember to back them up and save in a different patch so you don't lose the template (they are not protected).

 

I come from the analog world so I used the same logic for pedal order etc.

 

Coming to the Helix with some experience, helps tremendously. I think Line 6 expects that. Looking back, after a spending thousands of dollars and countless hours researching and experimenting in the pedal / amp world, I wish Helix was there from the beginning. I would have saved a ton of time and money.

 

The different advice you get isn't wrong, just different and it works better for their situation.

 

Check out the Helix page on Facebook. Awesome resource. Everyone there is willing to help and learn (we are all still learning) from the most complex to the simplest questions.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/line6helixusergroup/

 

 

Also, I think because the Helix is so new, even the Line 6 folks don't know all there is about the Helix and routing. I'm sure on occasion, they get the "wow, why didn't I think of that" moment.

 

 

Sorry I didn't answer you questions here. Best to ask specific as you can and one thing at a time or the answers will be all over the place.

Yup...all that.

 

Getting stuck in the idea that there are "right" and "wrong" ways to configure things is unnecessarily self-limiting. Want to run a cab sim through an actual amp and cab? Go ahead...you might like what you get, you might not. Only one way to find out, and since nothing is gonna catch fire either way, what have you got to lose?

[cruisinon2]

- Distortions before AMP (If this is correct)

 

- Delay and Verb after CAB (If this is correct)

 

I'd say that this is about it for "hard and fast rules"...and you could probably debate the delay and reverb, depending on the application.

[silverhead]

I sometimes like to place chorus, delay and reverb between the preamp and cab - just like an FX Loop on a real combo amp.

[cruisinon2]

I sometimes like to place chorus, delay and reverb between the preamp and cab - just like an FX Loop on a real combo amp.

Ha! Beat me to it...I rethought that a minute later. ;)

[HonestOpinion]

Not a massive complainer but I do think there should be more informative detail in the manual paid to the connection of the device in differentiating scenarios.

 

The manual is pretty straight forward... but the many different ways to connect the device depending on your situation seems to missing entirely.

 

Perhaps this is down to the very large signal routing options.

 

It should be clearer though.

 

Say "want to connect to your actual Amp and Cab"

 

- Do this

 

- Use these blocks in this combination

"going 4CM"

 

- Use these sim blocks

 

- Position them here

 

- Want to use the cabs? put them here"

 

- Check your Line/Ins settings are correct through the signal chain

 

"Best positioning for your effects blocks"

 

- Distortions before AMP (If this is correct)

 

- Modulation Before or after Amp?

 

- Delay and Verb after CAB (If this is correct)

 

 

I mean, the Forum is a great resource, but actually I've had very differentiating advice from users regarding connectivity to amps.

 

I don't mean to come across as a newb either, but I do think there are some hard and fast rules to this and there isn't (as I'm aware) any concise usage resources.

 

I think some specific instructions on how to connect to different hardware would be a great section to add to the helixhelp.com WIKI. As far as the order of effects, there are several websites that make suggestions on "standard" setups but as others have pointed out they are only general guidelines and breaking the "rules" can result in some great sounds. Googling  "guitar pedal order" brings back lots of great suggestions. I do however experience some of the same confusion as people post differing instructions on how to get the best sound out of the Helix. I say keep them coming though and eventually a consensus should emerge as we see a preponderance of people doing things the same one or two ways. Once we have that we can thing of new ingenious ways to break the "rules".  :D

[DarrellM5]

If they did decide to include these instructions it would make for a very long read.  There are just so many variables and combinations, and a lot of it is subjective based on what the individual user prefers.  For example, pedal order; some like certain effects before the preamp, some like them in the loop and some like them post.

 

Plus the routing options are almost unlimited.  I'm working on a patch right now that will send a dry signal to my DT25, a wet signal to a pair of Alto PA speakers, and use the 4-cable method with a 6505 MH.  

[Joepeggio]

More on pedal order, the "classic" sounds from the early Van Halen era and the like are overdrives, delays and reverbs before the maxed out Marshalls.  No loops in those classic amps.  And even as far as modulation before dirt.

 

 My point is what may be wrong by today's general guidelines was right back in the day. 

 

The great thing about he Helix and todays high-end modeling units, I can rearrange my "board" with the click of a footswitch in about 1/10th of a second.   :D

[roscoe5]

Helix comes with a Templates setlist with presets for many popular configurations.

[Lachdanan0121]

I'd say that this is about it for "hard and fast rules"...and you could probably debate the delay and reverb, depending on the application.

Even then if you put a distortion unit after an AMP, and you get a pleasing sound..  Then that kind of buckles that "hard & fast rule"

 

Using EZ Mix, and a few other FX plugins, I have learned all too well that just because something isn't designed to be used with something, doesn't mean it can't work great with it.

 

Its always possible, even if the probability is lowered.

[willjrock]

Ive come up with a couple real good sounding presets where the delay or chorus or whatever is in front of the amp. Helix seems to play nice with these "odd ball configurations", so if its good, go with it. If anyone needs to tell you how to arrange the blocks, there are other lessons you need to catch up on.

[willsmythe37]

Helix comes with a Templates setlist with presets for many popular configurations.

Funnily enough, I haven't actually used them.

 

I'll have a look and see what they have in there.

 

i.e

Whether they used pre-amp blocks or Amp blocks prior to the 'Send'

If you want to use Cab emulation, at which point in the signal chain it should be positioned.

 

 

 

Side note unrelated: 

Has anyone noticed that the splitting of two paths and merging causes a boost in volume?

 

I know why, as it's summing two paths together.

I forget though, do I need to lower the level by -3dB or -6dB when the two paths merge back together?

 

(Sound intensity level/Sound pressure level)

[TexLefty65]

Funnily enough, I haven't actually used them.

 

I'll have a look and see what they have in there.

 

i.e

Whether they used pre-amp blocks or Amp blocks prior to the 'Send'

If you want to use Cab emulation, at which point in the signal chain it should be positioned.

 

 

 

Side note unrelated: 

Has anyone noticed that the splitting of two paths and merging causes a boost in volume?

 

I know why, as it's summing two paths together.

I forget though, do I need to lower the level by -3dB or -6dB when the two paths merge back together?

 

(Sound intensity level/Sound pressure level)

 

Well, I think a lot of what you are asking is pretty subjective, and as others have stated here, can really differ depending on what Helix models you might be using together and what gear you are plugging into. For example, I typically see Line 6's suggestion to use a Preamp model when going out of a POD HD or Helix into an external power amp, but often I found I like the sound of a "full" amp model better, with no speaker cab added. In some cases I even liked the sound better with a speaker cab model too. And of course FX models themselves can sometimes sound better before an amp model or after within the Helix chain. So, it seems like every time someone presents a "guideline" there are several folks chiming in saying it is "wrong" and that they like their way better. Anyway, the templates do offer some good setups, such as for 4CM or into a DT amp, etc.

 

Also, regarding the splitting of a path adding gain... yes, I've measured it and adding a split path itself appears to add 3 dB of gain (not counting any gain you might further be adding by whatever models you insert into the added path of course). So, I suppose the answer to your question is to reduce the level by 3dB if you want to keep the level the same as it was before you added the extra path - but again, that is not to say that is "correct" since anytime you add or adjust any model in the chain you are changing the gain structure too. Just avoid the signal getting too hot on the output to avoid clipping and you should be fine. If it sounds good, it IS good, right? ;)