POD HD Support Still Going or Done?

[mattbarden]

Just curious if anyone knows if Line 6 is done with the HD line now that the Helix is out? I know Helix is supposed to be a separate line of product from the POD's, but is there anything in the pipeline still for the HD's? Do you think Line 6 is waiting on the next line of POD's rather than upgrading the HD's further? Personally, I think the HD's could go for a little more attention, maybe some more model packs to come?  A new set of cabinet models and the ability to fully change the mic positioning (X,Y and Z controls) would be awesome. Maybe adding back the amps that are missing from the XT/X3 fully loaded pack too? Particularly the Diezels, Spinal Puppet and JCM 900? The most important one though, the ability to re-amp via USB. Seriously, why is this not a feature on the HD's? The X3 did it, it feels like 2 steps forward with the amp modeling, but 1 step back with the routing abilities and that should not be the case in our age of technology.

[pianoguyy]

I bought my unit because it was a good unit, not because "it will be good when they release a few more updates". 

I am more than happy with the current state of my unit. If they want to give me more freebies, good for them. 

 

I also don't know what you are talking about when you bring up all of these other units - it is a waste of money to buy all of that. My last gear lasted 25 years. 

 

 

 

BUT, for the sake of fantasy role playing... 

With the exception of a few tweaks, I think that the HD updates are done. There is only so much hard drive space available in these units, and only so much processing power. You aren't going to be able to change too much more than they already did.

 

This doesn't mean that HD is dead. They can certainly come out with an HD505 or HD600. Which, they may also rename Helix Lite. 

Either way --- who really cares. You made your decision, you bought your unit, use it, be happy. 

[johnfrancis]

I seriously doubt that the HD500X is the last of the line. The Helix is beyond the financial reach of many players, so they would be crazy to not have a "Helix Light" range whatever they might call it.

[johnfrancis]

that hole has already been filled by the FIREHAWK series..

 

if they do an "Helix light" probably nobody will buy the big brother anymore, especially if the modeling is exactly the same..

 

the modeling best quality is the most requested and wanted feature over anything else, so if you can have it for a good or better price, that's what you'll buy

 

Good point - I forgot about the Firehawk.

[joel_brown]

So far nobody knows and the people that do know aren't going to say.  That's very confidential information.  Otherwise it would be announced on their website.

[pianoguyy]

Most business models run on a good/better/best type of deal. 

A Helix-lite and Helix-mini, particularly because of the popularity of the Helix, should definitely be in the hopper. And no, it will not stop people from buying the Helix, the same as the HD300 did not stop people from buying the 500 - or the Samsung Galaxy 5 Alpha or Galaxy 5 Sport did not stop people from buying the Galaxy 5. 

 

You always release the 'top of the line' product, milk it as much as you can, and then come out with lesser versions. People still buy the main unit, but many more buy the smaller ones. 

[skybone]

Well, you could also argue that the POD v2.0 outlived both the XT & X3, models which were brought out to replace it.

 

I get the impression that the Amplifi & Firehawk ranges are meant for slightly different markets than the HD range (aimed more at iOS & Android platforms), and that the Helix is aimed at a slightly more "upmarket" sector (more amps, more effects, more tweakability, etc.).

 

The HD X isn't too old, so we might see some further developments before Line6 develop a product to replace it, however, I still own & use a bean PODxt I bought when they first came out 12 years or so ago (admittedly it's being used less now I'm using the HD, but it still works and sounds good).

[duncann]

the HD300 did not stop people from buying the 500 simply because it was too limited, same thing to a lesser degree for the 400..

 

I do not think the little brothers have been so successful like the 500, and in fact long since have already arrived at EOL..

 

but let put it in another way:

 

imagine a new modeler exactly like the 500, but with HX engine and models, IR loading, let say for around 600 bucks..

 

how many people would still spend more than twice the money to have also a beautiful color screen, scribble strips, Touch-sensitive footswitches and 4 FX LOOPS?.. very few IMO

 

A Helix light might also have only one processor, which would severely limit what one could do, unless they also figured out a way to lower the resolution on existing HX models. If a Helix light were to become real, replacing the HD, the price would not be $500, but closer to $750. In fact, I remember DI saying that if they were to make the HD today exactly as it is, they could not sell it for $500. They can continue to do so only because they have that price locked in, or something to that effect. How many would spend twice as much, or not quite as? Might be not a lot, but more than very few?

 

If Line 6 does make some sort of Helix light, Amplifier could be in trouble, unless you're after a very compact, physically limiting device.

[BillBee]

Considering that the HD is more than relevant and IMO pretty dominant at its price point I would hazard to say it still has some years left in it. With the DSP that the units have the Bean, 500 and X platforms could be rejuiced with a few more model packs in time. Cabs/mics/synths/mics etc.  

 

But as Duncann pointed out L6 needs to eat too and $$ must be made.

[pianoguyy]

The HD X isn't too old, so we might see some further developments before Line6 develop a product to replace it

 

But the X is that old. 

The X wasn't a 'new' product. It was a necessary tweak due to hardware availability. 

The 500 and 500x and virtually the same unit and can be looked upon as being 6 years old.  

[duncann]

I think that Helix is a beautiful device, and if I had one surely I would enjoy using it..

 

however I don't feel so limited by what a 500 generally can do, and generally the thing that interests me most is the modeling/virtual amp quality..

 

let say that if a thing like S-Gear existed in a hardware pedalboard version, I would be the first to buy it, and it would be more than enough for all my guitarist needs, probably for the rest of my life..

 

personally in a modeler I do not care the aesthetics that much, and the possibility of doing funambolic connections,..

tone!.. just tone matters for me ---> for a fair price ;)

 

I wonder if something like the Receptor would be capable of running S-gear. Don't know where you buy them or how much they cost or even they're still made, but if there was at one point a hardware VST player, maybe there's others.

 

Peavey seems to make something along these lines also: https://peavey.com/products/musebox/

[bjnette]

I think that Helix is a beautiful device, and if I had one surely I would enjoy using it..

 

however I don't feel so limited by what a 500 generally can do, and generally the thing that interests me most is the modeling/virtual amp quality..

 

let say that if a thing like S-Gear existed in a hardware pedalboard version, I would be the first to buy it, and it would be more than enough for all my guitarist needs, probably for the rest of my life..

 

personally in a modeler I do not care the aesthetics that much, and the possibility of doing funambolic connections,..

tone!.. just tone matters for me ---> for a fair price ;)

I agree and your last paragraph gave me an idea. A pedalboard like  that could load an Amp sim of your choice, IRs and perhaps VSTs and VSTIs. 

If it would cost like a computer setup as a VST loader, studio quality FX and even a combo of Amp sims. 

 

One could argue this already exists as a laptop with Ableton Live or even standalone Amp sim and a midi controller.

A super isolated road case for the laptop or a dedicated shell with the ins and outs for live use. It has your multitrack and Mastering software as well for Studio!

 

Helix and the KPA come close.

 

Looks like your onto s'thing dunncan. Those are new to me!

[duncann]

thanks for the links.. I'll investigate those product types..

 

strange that as far as I know nobody invented a pedalboard vst host player with assignable footswitches and pedals

 

I can recall seeing a video about exactly this type of thing, only I couldn't find it. And if I remember right, it was still in a kind of development stage. Perhaps it's something that just quietly died.

[duncann]

maybe you mean Vped (about 1000 euros)..

 

..or V-Pedal

 

they are not compatible with several plugins (S-Gear included), they cost as hardware modelers, probably they are not still supported, and as if not enough they are also horrible, especially the V-Pedal..

 

my investigation about pedalboard vst hosts ended here!.. at least now I know how things are in this regard..

 

it seems that the only solutions worth considering for me are hardware modelers, and as a second choice plugins to be used with standard computers

It could have been either of those, but the Vped seems to trigger a few more neurons for me.

 

I guess now we know why dedicated DSP hardware modelers are more numerous and popular. The above are maybe good ideas, but not very workable for implementation. If they were, we'd be seeing more of them, and cheaper.

[pianoguyy]

Has anyone given any thought to running down to the local college campus and grabbing a computer geek to see if he would want some 'real world expience' (that means there is no pay, lol). 

This is my idea, if you can build it you can take the credit for building it, and use me as a reference when job hunting. 

[AlexKenivel]

I need more mids and less bass, someone call IT!

[markwesse]

hurghanico you are on the money! Some time to set up is an understatement though ;-)

Would be so cool if things were modular. This is my current rig...seeking to somehow lever a hd500 into it because the tone is so good...thats why the wiring is messy but the idea is to be modular. Originally there was a foam lined pocket that I slid my laptop into before the ind. pc but was a hassle having a 15inch touchscreen competing with stage light if you know what I mean. 

I use a custom programmed eprom (thanks ossandust) for an old FCB1010 which then goes into an industrial PC (but you could plug a standard NUC or mini pc depending on requirements). The midi signals are translated through a behaviour management code (ie double clicks/long clicks etc) which control Ableton live, GRig and softsynths/24 tracks x 8 scenes (instruments grouped into 4 tracks each eg guitar/perc/synth/midiperc/vox/fx etc). I did submit a rave on behaviours to one of the line 6 guys a number of years ago and its interesting to see some of it is on the helix...must have been a lot of us banging on about it.

The midi comes from a triple play on my guitar (and a small keyboard depending on which rig I use). The UR44 is also used as IO because its extremely clean and links to a framed percussion rig (only used sometimes depending on where we are playing) and use it for live looping etc

This is all housed in a 3mm laser cut stainless shell...what Im trying to get across here, is maybe be able to use a generic mini pc, modular hardware pieces that could link it and be used to create a personal super rig depending on the users requirements.

 

BTW the fcb clips into the top 2 slots and the velcro anchors it down...it doesnt move at all and can lift the whole rig. The old fender pedal (pulled apart in these pics) is used as a rotary encoder and the switch for sustain...just refitting with a really robust industrial optical rather than the flimsy quadrature but the optical is refusing to work with the livid control board.

 

In case you are wondering how I see/use it live, I have a small tablet in heavy duty case with remote software to see the desktop...it just mounts on the mic stand with a tab mount. This is where the VST software like the new VIP control would make it a snap...standardised interface would be brilliant.

 

For the sake of helping to clarify...here are some pics (sorry about quality...my old phone!)...stripped down and complete is the last pic.

 

 

 

 

[mattbarden]

Forgot I posted this...stupid beer. It's not to say I'm not pleased with the HD, quite the opposite actually. I really like the tones I get out of it and the flexibility is astounding. I was more trying to say there is still a lot of milage to be had out of these units to keep them fresh and possibly add some things that might sway people who are still on the fence about getting one.

[joel_brown]

On the fence ?  What else is going to be as good ?  Nothing I know of, until you get up to the Helix, Kemper, or AXEFX for a lot more money.  But you make some very valid points for people who re-amp or really liked some of the other XT amp models that are no longer available.  I made the jump from the POD 2.0 to the HD.  I guess I don't miss what I never had.

 

Does the Firehawk fill in some of these things for people ?  I haven't looked at it very close but it has some interesting features.

[markwesse]

Would be great if there was (possibly) some way that a product milestone was reached and then they would allow a 'features' access. What I mean is, there is a certain point where the unit is no longer for sale, so to speak, and, like the FCB1010, aftermarket hardware guys take all the extra features that were never implemented and actually implement them. ie Ossandust, I think he is in Belgium, makes a 'stomp box' eprom for the FCB (downloadable for free). On top of that, I paid a couple of bucks and he added a number of extra midi controllers etc and I just plugged it in and away it went.

I know there is a whole minefield of IP but repurposing/3rd party features would be cool. I would pay $100 extra for a decent looper eprom no problem at all.

 

I beg to differ about tone quality...in a PA live setting...I have had PODs since the orig as well as IK, NI Grig, blah blah. I put a blind test up for the eg the twang/fender model and majority people chose GRig over POD but there was a much closer gap between Grig and HD; Grig still won. Try it yourself with a reamp and field it to normal people (ie listeners) who dont have a cultural pre disposition. What Im saying is...with great pups, cables, electronics, the tonal response is not blindingly better (speaking clean models only here). Still love the Line 6 stuff...pity there is NO midi support over USB (HD Floorboards)...thats a whole other issue ;-)

[joel_brown]

GRig is a plug in.  It's not in the same category as the PODHD.  You have to have a computer with audio interface and GRig loaded as a plug in.

[PeterHamm]

HD development, I bet, is done.

I could see one last iteration, which imho would be like what happened from XT to X3.

HD 500 X Plus (or whatever) that has all the same modeling but with all the model packs built-in for free, but perhaps a little more horsepower.

But new sounds? I don't think so. And the fact is... where they have left it is stunning for the price anyway. I got 5 years out of mine and would have kept going another 5 years if Helix hadn't come along.

Helix LITE? won't be 600 I don't think... I think maybe 750 or 800 minimum, and if I were them, I'd be developing this now. Who knows, it's probably already in development (and no, I don't know anything about such a device, just guessin').

[mattbarden]

On the fence ?  What else is going to be as good ?  Nothing I know of, until you get up to the Helix, Kemper, or AXEFX for a lot more money.  But you make some very valid points for people who re-amp or really liked some of the other XT amp models that are no longer available.  I made the jump from the POD 2.0 to the HD.  I guess I don't miss what I never had.

 

Does the Firehawk fill in some of these things for people ?  I haven't looked at it very close but it has some interesting features.

I agree, at the price point nothing can touch the HD's, not even close.

 

I do know a couple guys who are hesitant to upgrade from their X3's because they can't reamp. The reamp comment in my original post came from a conversation I had with one of them a while back. It's not entirely my own opinion on the matter, but I do agree with some of his points so I threw it in there.

 

The Firehawk is pretty cool, I know another guy that got one recently. The only thing I didn't like about it was the editing software is only for phones and tablets, no computer based option. That's more of a personal preference though, I'm just used to doing it on a computer. Kind of like my other buddy who is used to being able to reamp, sometimes we just get stuck in our ways. I did really like the multicolored footswitch lights like the Helix has and it sounded pretty good too.

[markwesse]

GRig is a plug in.  It's not in the same category as the PODHD.  You have to have a computer with audio interface and GRig loaded as a plug in.

Hi Joel...It is exactly the same in application...but comes with a controller board with a brilliant io + standalone executable. Plugin is an option but I dont use it.

You Just add a windows tablet, that is all, and over here (Australia) works out about the same price as the release price of the hd. ie Cost me AU$750 to setup vs 799 for HD500. Guitar Rig Pro 4 with controller was 349 + 300 for windows tablet. Latency is about 8ms but more than playable (would be interesting to check the latency of the HD hardware)

As mentioned, I migrated it to a small mini/industrial pc so I could run softsynths as well via triple play.

 

When they have milked the hardware solution and release the HD as software, as was the case with gearbox, Ill be very happy to go back to the same setup. I only have the HD for the HD models if you know what I mean.

 

Cheers

[joel_brown]

Where on their website is this ?  I couldn't find it.  Or are you buying from someone else a separate controller board, audio interface and computer ?

[aerosol_d7]

I guess the support is done. Unfortunately there are still some bugs....

[markwesse]

Where on their website is this ?  I couldn't find it.  Or are you buying from someone else a separate controller board, audio interface and computer ?

Grig 4 Pro is now discontinued but it was a controller and software. The floorboard has a great quality interface integrated into it and runs directly with grig ie dedicated. I bought the tablet separately from Target. Interesting thing is that the Krauts got it right...the only floorboard I have seen with tie offs/strain relief :-) Even integrated them as a stand off when standing the unit on its back edge to protect the knobs...great industrial design and its a tough very light unit out of aluminium extrusion. The HD500 I have had the usb ripped clean out of it (by the previous owner): not even a design thought about road proofing those connections.

Looper is excellent...super simple but flexible and super adequate. Im actually trying to setup up the hd usb to go into the tablet and just use the looper but of course, the HD doesnt transmit any midi down USB it seems; tab only has 1 usb in :-(

 

[mattbarden]

That controller is pretty sweet. A friend of mine used to have one before he got a house and upgraded to a Marshall half stack. Nice piece of gear for sure.

[joel_brown]

Nice, but it doesn't count if it's discontinued.

[markwesse]

Nice, but it doesn't count if it's discontinued.

HD500 is discontinued...I was just comparing apples for apples when both were current.

[jeremybnz]

I think the Amplifire paired with an M9 would be a killer replacement for the HD, I'm leaning that way myself....

[markwesse]

I think the Amplifire paired with an M9 would be a killer replacement for the HD, I'm leaning that way myself....

Its frustrating when it could all be in 1 box (easily dsp wise)...I would love all the modules to be like amp packs where you just buy a plain vanilla HD floor board and purchase the bits you really want; ie upgraded looper in lieu of other stuff...no problem. 

The footswitches all generic with scribble strips like the helix.

 

Anyway...

[bjnette]

Realistically the HDs might be continued as a line from Line 6 once Helix sales taper off and a new bungle of the Helix to HD Amps put up for sale for us poorer musicians to further the line. I personally cannot justify the cost yet as am not gigging anytime soon to get a Helix but certainly would love one.

 

As an aside I have been looking to see if it is possible to upgrade the Shark Chip in one of my HD500s. Need an electrical IT geek as I'd like to upgrade the ADDA converter chip as well! (might be cheaper to just buy the HX LOL)

[joel_brown]

HD500X is not discontinued.  That's like an HD500.1 version.  So it's not Apples to Apples with the GRig and is confusing in this context.  The current question "HD Support still going or done ?".  Not "used to be going or used to be done".

 

So back to my response.  There's nothing in the category of the PODHD that's better.  I'm real happy with mine and not sure I'd upgrade if something else came out.  Why spend lots of money upgrading when the difference is so small even trained ears can barely notice it.

[PeterHamm]

...There's nothing in the category of the PODHD that's better.  I'm real happy with mine and not sure I'd upgrade if something else came out.  Why spend lots of money upgrading when the difference is so small even trained ears can barely notice it.

 

Do you mean upgrading from HD 500 to HD 500X? Yes. Meaningless. If you can make your patches without hitting the wall in the original HD 500, you don't need the X for anything. The sound is totally identical.

[duncann]

500 to 500X isn't meaningless at all. The extra DSP provides for substantially more creativity with effects while still using some of the more DSP hogging amps, which just isn't possible with the 500. If you don't use effects much, or dual amps/cabs/mics, then sure, the 500X over the 500 isn't worth it.

[PeterHamm]

500 to 500X isn't meaningless at all. The extra DSP provides for substantially more creativity with effects while still using some of the more DSP hogging amps, which just isn't possible with the 500. If you don't use effects much, or dual amps/cabs/mics, then sure, the 500X over the 500 isn't worth it.

 

But the sound is no different.

[duncann]

But the sound is no different.

 

That's true for the modeling and algorithms, but the extra dsp can be used in such a way that can provide for tones that just aren't possible on the 500.

[bjnette]

You guys are both right! 

[joel_brown]

I was referring to PODHD500X and anything else in it's price range.  One of the earlier posts compared it to GRig and a discontinued controller.  But going off on a tangent is fun too.