Wireless Headphone option for practicing

[Thurston9]

Has anyone found anything that works well?  Bluetooth, from what I've heard is too slow.  I've never used wireless in-ear monitors, but feel like they are overkill for practice.

[rd2rk]

Sennheiser RS185

Digital, so virtually no latency. Excellent sound, little coloration. Comfortable.

Not cheap, but I started with Best Buy and went thru two levels of Sonys before I settled on these.

[jeremyn]

Analogue has virtually no latency. Digital systems generally have a bit to allow error correction. From what a friend who has a pair has said, the RS185 has around 20 to 30 milliseconds. Much better than Bluetooth, but might add up with other system latencies to be noticeable on fast rhythm passages.

[mikeolivercgp]

Sennheiser RS185

Digital, so virtually no latency. Excellent sound, little coloration. Comfortable.

Not cheap, but I started with Best Buy and went thru two levels of Sonys before I settled on these.

I recently started using the Sennheiser wireless headphones. I use the Helix as a playback device for my laptop PC via USB so I can also hear and play along with any click, loop, or demo tracks for the songs in our set list for a respective event. Since I also run my guitars into the Helix via a Relay 50 wireless, I'm completely untethered, enabling me to stand and practice while the Helix and related expression pedals are is on the floor so I can also rehearse any foot control work for a respective song. The USB connection also enables me to be connected to the Helix editor to make changes to the preset for a particular song (e.g., snapshots, controller assignments, parameter tweaks, etc.). The best part is being able to play without disturbing my family. The worst part is being so engrossed in playing that your first indication that someone wants to ask you a question is when your feel an unexpected tap on your shoulder and jump 10' into the air in initial response.

[rd2rk]

I'm setup like mike, using the G10. Even using a plugin (Sgear) and running thru a daw (Sonar, focusrite 2nd gen, i7), barely perceptible latency.

[Thurston9]

You guys are awesome!  The Sennheiser RS185 are way more expensive than I wanted to spend... but maybe worth saving for.

 

Any others?

[cruisinon2]

Analogue has virtually no latency. Digital systems generally have a bit to allow error correction. From what a friend who has a pair has said, the RS185 has around 20 to 30 milliseconds. Much better than Bluetooth, but might add up with other system latencies to be noticeable on fast rhythm passages.

20 to 30 ms is getting into slap-back echo territory...way too much to play with (unless you're willing to "learn" how to be terrible ;) ). It'll drive you nuts.

[Andy1175]

20 to 30 ms is getting into slap-back echo territory...way too much to play with (unless you're willing to "learn" how to be terrible ;) ). It'll drive you nuts.

 

Yep, that would indeed drive me mad, especially if I'd paid £150 for the privilege.  I've also been looking for some decent quality wireless cans, not much luck so far though.  I can however advise you all to avoid the Philips SHC5100/5 like the plague, the noise from them is incredible, it's like listening on the beach at high tide.  I hope someone eventually comes up with something usable, doesn't seem too much to ask for really does it.

 

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[PeterHamm]

Wireless headphones for musical performance or practicing still aren't viable. Don't bother.

[ellendr]

The best part is being able to play without disturbing my family. The worst part is being so engrossed in playing that your first indication that someone wants to ask you a question is when your feel an unexpected tap on your shoulder and jump 10' into the air in initial response.

 

I had this problem also....finally got everyone to just turn the lights on and off in the room to get my attention. After my heart rate returned to normal.

[Andy1175]

Wireless headphones for musical performance or practicing still aren't viable. Don't bother.

 

That's incredible.  We have wireless everything else, mics, guitars, etc, etc, so why not cans??  C'mon Line 6, if this isn't a commercial opportunity, I don't know what is.

 

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[PeterHamm]

That's incredible.  We have wireless everything else, mics, guitars, etc, etc, so why not cans??  C'mon Line 6, if this isn't a commercial opportunity, I don't know what is.

 

-

 

Well, if you want next to no latency... wireless IEM systems are great, but they're WAY more expensive than headphones. Remember you need stereo to make it work, so don't look for a G10 kinda thing anytime soon.

[Andy1175]

Well, if you want next to no latency... wireless IEM systems are great, but they're WAY more expensive than headphones. Remember you need stereo to make it work, so don't look for a G10 kinda thing anytime soon.

 

Just had a look at some quite reasonably priced IEM systems, there seem to be a few within my price range.  Thanks for the idea.

Being that it's only going to get home use, maybe something like this would do the job for me:

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_75.htm

 

Anyone have experience of this system?

 

EDIT:  Hmmm, not sure about that now, it's FM so may not like the Helix.

 

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[rd2rk]

Wireless headphones for musical performance or practicing still aren't viable. Don't bother.

For performance or full on band rehearsal, I agree. It's not what they're designed for.

But for personal practice with streaming audio, they're absolutely viable.

Maybe, when you tried them (you DID try the RS185s, right?), you didn't like them.

 

Me and mike like them just fine.

 

If you're seriously looking for an ultra low latency wireless solution for personal practice, pick up a pair at Best Buy or somewhere else with a good return policy. You might just be surprised!

[d0stenning]

wireless IEM systems eh ? Peter ? 

 

If its possible for IEM ought to be doable for cans.   My guess is that the compromise needed to reduce latency is a reduced bandwidth - namely the frequency response might tail of quite a bit below 20Khz.  But considering guitar overtones are way way below that - and most adults > 50 hearing is around £14,000 kHz  i'd say a lower frequency response in return for lower latency is well worth having. 

 

Engineers could even incorporate a switch to select between full frequency and reduced freq+low latency  in such a product aimed at ..... us... 

 

One can dream..... 

[jeremyn]

20 to 30 ms is getting into slap-back echo territory...way too much to play with (unless you're willing to "learn" how to be terrible ;) ). It'll drive you nuts.

 

It is, but the difference with headphones is you don't hear the original signal, only the delayed signal, so it doesn't sound like an echo. It's like playing while standing 30 feet away from your monitor speaker. I find it distracting once the pure latency gets beyond about 25ms (less than 15ms I don't even notice, and up to 25ms I forget it's there after a while). Other people may have different thresholds before they consider the latency distracting.

 

Pipe organists in a cathedrals and big churches have to deal with it when the pipes are 150' away from the console. They basically have to concentrate on their fingers/feet and ignore (or embrace) the delayed sound coming back to them 150ms later. That leads to slower passages with lots of legato, and tempos that are related to the inverse delay time.

 

I like the suggestions above for using an wireless IEM system and plugging headphones into the receiver instead of IEMs (unless you prefer using IEMs).

[aleclee]

The worst part is being so engrossed in playing that your first indication that someone wants to ask you a question is when your feel an unexpected tap on your shoulder and jump 10' into the air in initial response.

This is a big part of why I've preferred open-back headphones when playing through a modeler.

 

It's like playing while standing 30 feet away from your monitor speaker. 

 

Pipe organists in a cathedrals and big churches have to deal with it when the pipes are 150' away from the console. They basically have to concentrate on their fingers/feet and ignore (or embrace) the delayed sound coming back to them 150ms later. That leads to slower passages with lots of legato, and tempos that are related to the inverse delay time.

 

A lot of folks mistakenly compare latency to an equivalent delay of audio time of flight through the air.  Problem is that that playing through headphones, you lack the psychoacoustic cues that allow your brain to compensate for the delay.  Playing a guitar 50 feet from your speaker is no problem at all.  Try dialing in a 50ms delay in your Helix playing through headphones and see what it does to the feel relative to playing with zero added delay.

Personally, things start getting uncomfortable beyond about 7ms of latency inside the box.  If that wasn't the case, I'd have used the amp sims in my iPad a lot more.

[rd2rk]

Before I got the Sennheisers, I tried one of the "affordable" UHF IEMs, the Galaxy Audio AS900k. The rig was $200 on Amazon, and was getting better reviews than the comparably priced Nady rig.

 

What I got was lots of noise, dropouts (in my living room!), and severe compression. The in-ears were not as good as the $35 earbuds I was using with my mp3 player. When I looked into what real in-ears cost, cheap ones are more than the whole unit, and forget the kind of custom mades that don't fall out of your ears! I returned the Galaxy the next day.

 

If you'll be using IEMs with a band, it's like with any other pro gear, you suck it up and pay for the best you can swing. I won't be messing with the cheap ones again.

 

Someone earlier speculated 20-30ms latency with the RS185s. Not! Full wireless with a G10, I can't feel any latency unless I concentrate on looking for it, and then I'm not sure it's not my imagination. And the sound is what you'd expect from quality headphones. They're not cheap ($400), but for home use they're great!

[jeremyn]

A lot of folks mistakenly compare latency to an equivalent delay of audio time of flight through the air.  Problem is that that playing through headphones, you lack the psychoacoustic cues that allow your brain to compensate for the delay.  Playing a guitar 50 feet from your speaker is no problem at all.  Try dialing in a 50ms delay in your Helix playing through headphones and see what it does to the feel relative to playing with zero added delay.

Personally, things start getting uncomfortable beyond about 7ms of latency inside the box.  If that wasn't the case, I'd have used the amp sims in my iPad a lot more.

 

An imperfect analogy on my part. You're right, the high frequency roll off with distance and extra multi path room acoustics makes it bit easier than a pure delay directly into headphones - or even into a local speaker that is only a few feet away. I had to sing right underneath an installed sound FOH speaker that was delayed by around 30ms to compensate for sub positioning, and that was really disconcerting. Not quite as bad if I'm singing and the speaker is 30 feet away. I can tell there's a delay, but the folded back sound feels less direct, and is usually not quite as loud.

[PeterHamm]

ANY cheap IEM is designed solely for the purpose of removing money from your pocket.

An extension cord for your current headphones will always sound and work better... and cost only twenty bucks or so US.

[Andy1175]

ANY cheap IEM is designed solely for the purpose of removing money from your pocket.

 

An extension cord for your current headphones will always sound and work better... and cost only twenty bucks or so US.

 

Yes I'm sure your right, they probably wouldn't be any better than the Philips cans I tried.

 

Before I got the Sennheisers, I tried one of the "affordable" UHF IEMs, the Galaxy Audio AS900k. The rig was $200 on Amazon, and was getting better reviews than the comparably priced Nady rig.

 

What I got was lots of noise, dropouts (in my living room!), and severe compression. The in-ears were not as good as the $35 earbuds I was using with my mp3 player. When I looked into what real in-ears cost, cheap ones are more than the whole unit, and forget the kind of custom mades that don't fall out of your ears! I returned the Galaxy the next day.

 

If you'll be using IEMs with a band, it's like with any other pro gear, you suck it up and pay for the best you can swing. I won't be messing with the cheap ones again.

 

Someone earlier speculated 20-30ms latency with the RS185s. Not! Full wireless with a G10, I can't feel any latency unless I concentrate on looking for it, and then I'm not sure it's not my imagination. And the sound is what you'd expect from quality headphones. They're not cheap ($400), but for home use they're great!

 

If I can find a way of trying before I buy, I'll give them a go.  Thanks

 

-

[jbuhajla]

I recently started using the Sennheiser wireless headphones. I use the Helix as a playback device for my laptop PC via USB so I can also hear and play along with any click, loop, or demo tracks for the songs in our set list for a respective event. Since I also run my guitars into the Helix via a Relay 50 wireless, I'm completely untethered, enabling me to stand and practice while the Helix and related expression pedals are is on the floor so I can also rehearse any foot control work for a respective song. The USB connection also enables me to be connected to the Helix editor to make changes to the preset for a particular song (e.g., snapshots, controller assignments, parameter tweaks, etc.). The best part is being able to play without disturbing my family. The worst part is being so engrossed in playing that your first indication that someone wants to ask you a question is when your feel an unexpected tap on your shoulder and jump 10' into the air in initial response.

Hey if it works for you, USE IT! If it doesn't work for you, DON'T use it. There are lots of options out there for everyone. 

[Thurston9]

There are lots of options out there for everyone. 

 

Doesn't seem that way in this thread. For me:

 

Option 1: Bluetooth - Too much latency

Option 2: Cheap Wireless IEM - Poor quality

Option 3: Seinnheiser Wireless - (Maybe) too much latency, expensive

Option 4: Expensive Wireless IEM - Expensive

[rd2rk]

Thurston -

 

The high latency numbers for the Sennheisers were pure speculation by someone who had no direct experience with them. IT'S NOT TRUE! This from someone who actually owns them and uses them every day! YES, they ARE expensive.

[jeremyn]

Thurston -

 

The high latency numbers for the Sennheisers were pure speculation by someone who had no direct experience with them. IT'S NOT TRUE! This from someone who actually owns them and uses them every day! YES, they ARE expensive.

I'd love it if someone actually measured the latency with a DAW. And compare it to the same measurement made with wired cans.

 

Sennheiser doesn't say what it is, and my friend couldn't use them for gaming, and said he needed to delay videos by around 20ms to match sync compared to wired headphones. Maybe he's super sensitive and overestimating. Maybe he's spot on. If he still had them I'd borrow and measure.

 

If you have a DAW and a mic, many people including myself would be very appreciative if you could run up a quick test.

[rd2rk]

A DAW measures the latency between the time the sound is converted (AD) at the interface input, and the time it's converted back (DA) at the interface output, as reported by the ASIO driver. It has no way of knowing how long it takes the signal to get from the guitar to the interface, or from the interface to the headphones. All I can say is that with G10 and RS185 (same basic transmission tech), it FEELS every bit as fast as a guitar cable and wired headphone. When I upgraded from i5 to 7th gen i7, my reported round trip latency (Sonar and 2nd gen focusrite 18i20 improved by about 7 ms, and I could tell, so I'm somewhat sensitive to latency.

 

As I've said before, if you're seriously looking for this type of solution for home practice, buy them somewhere with a good return policy (you're not gonna find a try before you buy situation), and return them if they don't meet your requirements. Whadda ya got to lose?

[jeremyn]

A DAW measures the latency between the time the sound is converted (AD) at the interface input, and the time it's converted back (DA) at the interface output, as reported by the ASIO driver. It has no way of knowing how long it takes the signal to get from the guitar to the interface, or from the interface to the headphones. All I can say is that with G10 and RS185 (same basic transmission tech), it FEELS every bit as fast as a guitar cable and wired headphone. When I upgraded from i5 to 7th gen i7, my reported round trip latency (Sonar and 2nd gen focusrite 18i20 improved by about 7 ms, and I could tell, so I'm somewhat sensitive to latency.

 

As I've said before, if you're seriously looking for this type of solution for home practice, buy them somewhere with a good return policy (you're not gonna find a try before you buy situation), and return them if they don't meet your requirements. Whadda ya got to lose?

 

 

A differential measurement would be done using a microphone (even the in-built mic) put up against the headphones: start the DAW recording, and play a track that contains something with a sudden onset that can easily be recognised in the recorded track. Measure the time between the playback and recording. Then repeat the same test with a wired headphone. Assuming the wired headphones are our 'zero' latency baseline, the difference between the two results will equal the latency of the wireless link.

 

Unfortunately, in this part of the world stores don't have those great X day return policies (unless there is something defective with what you've bought, or maybe if the package is unopened and you're exchanging it for something else). There are a few exceptions, but those are brand dedicated shopfronts like the Bose and Apple stores.

[rd2rk]

What part of the world doesn't have Amazon? How much could the return freight be, even from Antarctica?

 

Anyhow, more effort than I've time for to prove something I know works. How's this - my focusrite 18i20 has two headphone outs. With the RS185 in one and my wired Sony MDR-V6 in the other, I can't detect any difference in latency. They both sound good, just different. I actually prefer the sound of the RS185s, less fatiguing.

 

Or this - As I understand this technology, digital wireless is binary (0 and 1) data encoded onto (into?) radio waves. Radio waves travel at the speed of light. At that speed, the only significant latency is that added by the AD/DA conversion at either end.

 

You play a note. The analog signal goes thru the guitar cable to the Helix, where it's converted to digital (AD). After processing, the note is converted back to analog (DA) and sent out the Helix headphone jack, up the wire and into your wired headphones. Electricity (again as I understand it) moves at roughly the speed of light, depending on the conducting material. I could be missing something, I'm no rocket scientist, but it sounds like the wired connection could actually be SLOWER! In any case, at 10-20 feet, either method of transmission is damn fast!

 

Using a G10 (or any digital guitar wireless) eliminates the guitar cable and adds an AD/DA conversion (2 conversions - G10 and Helix). I don't hear anybody worrying about guitar wireless latency.

 

Adding the RS185 eliminates the headphone cable and adds another AD/DA conversion. Now you have 3 AD/DA conversions. At one time I'd've worried about how that affects the sound. But after comparing the S/PDIF from Helix to 18i20 (1 AD/DA conversion using cables) to the analog signal, with and without G10 and RS185, I can't hear any difference in latency OR audio quality.

 

Now, I know there are people on this forum who can hear .05 cent difference in their guitar's tuning, and those folks can probably hear the difference an AD/DA conversion makes, never mind 2 or 3! but for most of us mere mortals, especially those of us who've spent years on stage in front of multiple Marshall stacks and animal drummers, it don't make that much difference.

 

And finally, lest we lose sight of where this all began, we're talking about PRACTICING AT HOME, with CD's or streaming audio that's already been digitized, pasteurized, homogenized and osterized!

 

Make the leap to total wireless freedom NOW!

 

DISCLAIMER: I don't work for Sennheiser, but, considering the time I've put into this thread, if three people buy a set of these headphones based on what I've said here, I think they should give me a FREE second set. OH, BTW - did I mention that you can use 2 sets at once from one base unit? That means that, if your band is a duo, you CAN use them for rehearsal, or even performance if you don't mind looking really dorky!

[jeremyn]

Wireless digital transmission isn't just ADC/DAC stages. The data has to packetised and time set aside for retransmission(s) (and/or forward error correction) should there be an error. This is especially necessary in a crowded band like the 2.4GHz ISM band. Those functions can be as short as 1.7ms in something like the Line6 G70 or 12ms in the XVive U2, or as long as the few hundred milliseconds you see in Bluetooth A2DP audio. The low bandwidth handsfree profile is still on the order of 20ms.

 

I'm not buying a product from overseas that's going to cost me $50 to return if it turns out I'm too sensitive to the delay. I don't like using amp sims in my iPad because of latency. I suspect this may be similar, but no published specs exist to convince me otherwise.

[Thurston9]

 

Make the leap to total wireless freedom NOW!

 

 

 

Thanks man, I do appreciate your opinion on these and they are definitely something I will try to check out and see for myself.

[rd2rk]

Most of this discussion has been carried out while I was on the road (I drive a truck, probably another reason my ears are less than perfect). Now I'm home, so I conducted further testing.

 

With helix set to a pure, clean amp, no delay/reverb, no backing tracks/streaming music, with and without G10, XLR outs and S/PDIF going to the 18i20, Wired Sonys vs RS185:

 

No difference between XLR and S/PDIF. No difference between G10 and guitar cable. Line6 apparently has excellent conversion tech.

 

Thru the RS185 I can hear pick noise separate from the headphone content. That's latency. Thru the Sonys, none. At the low volume I used for this test it was mildly distracting. Don't know how much in ms, but I have a request in to Sennheiser support for specs. Not holding my breath.

 

With Helix set to a normal preset (with FX), at normal playing volume, pick noise inaudible, no more distraction.

With backing track/streaming music, even KNOWING that the latency is there, it's no impediment to my practicing.

 

In summary:

 

jnysen - Thanks for forcing me to test this, it's good to know, and now everyone who's been following this thread knows (there goes my free headset!). Considering your problem with return costs, you probably shouldn't bother with the RS185s. Someday, when miniaturization catches up with the IEM tech, we'll have TRULY wireless in-ears. I'm waiting with cash in hand! Meanwhile, if you find a better alternative (true wireless, no belt pack tether), please bump this thread.

 

Thurston9 - Unless you have a similar problem with returns, go ahead and get the RS185s. They work great for practicing and, no, it doesn't affect my timing when practicing without headphones!

 

SIDEBAR:

 

Dr. Mercola (based on much scientific research), says that ALL wireless transmission tech causes cancer! SO, the question is - are we more concerned with brain cancer from our wireless IEMs, or testicular cancer from our wireless guitar transmitters? Food for thought..... :rolleyes:

[gunpointmetal]

Before I got the Sennheisers, I tried one of the "affordable" UHF IEMs, the Galaxy Audio AS900k. The rig was $200 on Amazon, and was getting better reviews than the comparably priced Nady rig.

 

What I got was lots of noise, dropouts (in my living room!), and severe compression. The in-ears were not as good as the $35 earbuds I was using with my mp3 player. When I looked into what real in-ears cost, cheap ones are more than the whole unit, and forget the kind of custom mades that don't fall out of your ears! I returned the Galaxy the next day.

 

If you'll be using IEMs with a band, it's like with any other pro gear, you suck it up and pay for the best you can swing. I won't be messing with the cheap ones again.

 

Someone earlier speculated 20-30ms latency with the RS185s. Not! Full wireless with a G10, I can't feel any latency unless I concentrate on looking for it, and then I'm not sure it's not my imagination. And the sound is what you'd expect from quality headphones. They're not cheap ($400), but for home use they're great!

Weird, my bands both use these systems in a variety of high-interference environments with little-to-know issues. Occasionally some DMX dimmers will give some interference, but its just a matter of moving the transmitter a foot or two, usually. ALL musician-designed IEM systems will have a limiter or hard compressor built-in as a safety feature and your volume will be limited. The idea behind IEM is to operate with less volume, but I can't image every needing anything to be louder than what the bodypack puts out, especially for practice. 

[PeterHamm]

Dr. Mercola (based on much scientific research), says that ALL wireless transmission tech causes cancer!...

 

 

google him: known quack.

[rd2rk]

Peter - it was a joke.

 

BUT... even quacks get it right sometimes, it's the mix of truth and fantasy that keeps their followers coming back.

AND....the research, from prestigious universities and research groups IS out there. Google it!

 

Personally, I'm more concerned about getting cancer from reading media reports on politics.... :) <----Smiley face

[rd2rk]

Well, shut MY mouth!

 

From Sennheiser's VERY fast reply:

 

"Latency occurs in all wireless headphones however the technology being used to create the wireless signal does affect how much latency is caused. For example a Radio Frequency (RF) model (like an IEM monitoring system) has a latency of approximately 3 m/s whereas an 8-FSK digital model (like the RS 165/RS 175/RS 185) has a latency of approximately 45 m/s. Usually the delay (even at the 45 m/s level) is not discernible and hence goes unnoticed when watching TV, but can produce an echo effect if being used in conjunction with wired or RF microphones/ instrument connections."

 

I couldn't believe it! 45ms? NO WAY!

 

So I set up a new preset with just a simple delay set to 45ms and 100% wet.

 

Yep. 45 ms. DOH!

 

I stand by what I said here:

 

"With Helix set to a normal preset (with FX), at normal playing volume, pick noise inaudible, no more distraction.

With backing track/streaming music, even KNOWING that the latency is there, it's no impediment to my practicing."

 

It works for me, YMMV.

 

However, I make no further claims to knowing what I'm talking about concerning latency.

 

BTW - the IEM they referenced for comparison, the EW 300 IEM G3, is $999 at Sweetwater, and has the funky earbuds that jump out of your ears.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

gunpointmetal - glad it's working for you, it sounded awful to me. Maybe I'll give it another try, could've gotten a defective unit. Are you using the earbuds that came with it?

[jeremyn]

Well, shut MY mouth!

 

From Sennheiser's VERY fast reply:

 

"Latency occurs in all wireless headphones however the technology being used to create the wireless signal does affect how much latency is caused. For example a Radio Frequency (RF) model (like an IEM monitoring system) has a latency of approximately 3 m/s whereas an 8-FSK digital model (like the RS 165/RS 175/RS 185) has a latency of approximately 45 m/s. Usually the delay (even at the 45 m/s level) is not discernible and hence goes unnoticed when watching TV, but can produce an echo effect if being used in conjunction with wired or RF microphones/ instrument connections."

 

I couldn't believe it! 45ms? NO WAY!

 

So I set up a new preset with just a simple delay set to 45ms and 100% wet.

 

Yep. 45 ms. DOH!

 

I stand by what I said here:

 

"With Helix set to a normal preset (with FX), at normal playing volume, pick noise inaudible, no more distraction.

With backing track/streaming music, even KNOWING that the latency is there, it's no impediment to my practicing."

 

It works for me, YMMV.

 

However, I make no further claims to knowing what I'm talking about concerning latency.

 

BTW - the IEM they referenced for comparison, the EW 300 IEM G3, is $999 at Sweetwater, and has the funky earbuds that jump out of your ears.

 

Thanks for finding that out! The info in your post is gold.

[Thurston9]

"Latency occurs in all wireless headphones however the technology being used to create the wireless signal does affect how much latency is caused. For example a Radio Frequency (RF) model (like an IEM monitoring system) has a latency of approximately 3 m/s whereas an 8-FSK digital model (like the RS 165/RS 175/RS 185) has a latency of approximately 45 m/s. Usually the delay (even at the 45 m/s level) is not discernible and hence goes unnoticed when watching TV, but can produce an echo effect if being used in conjunction with wired or RF microphones/ instrument connections."

 

So you've been lying this WHOLE time?!  I just bought 2 pairs based on your advice!  $800 in the toilet...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.  Great follow-up and info.  Really wondering why someone hasn't tried to (or been able to?) put out some quality low latency headphones in this price range.

[rd2rk]

From Sennheiser's reply, my guess is that either they can't miniaturize the tech enough to get around the need for a belt pack, and/or they COULD incorporate the better tech into these large over the ear phones, but they don't see the guitarist practicing at home market as being worthwhile. Considering how many amateur players spend thousands on modelers and guitars that we only use at home, and how much more fun it is to do so without the upstairs neighbors calling the cops, I think they're missing the boat.

 

LINE6 - there's a market here! 

[gunpointmetal]

From Sennheiser's reply, my guess is that either they can't miniaturize the tech enough to get around the need for a belt pack, and/or they COULD incorporate the better tech into these large over the ear phones, but they don't see the guitarist practicing at home market as being worthwhile. Considering how many amateur players spend thousands on modelers and guitars that we only use at home, and how much more fun it is to do so without the upstairs neighbors calling the cops, I think they're missing the boat.

 

LINE6 - there's a market here! 

IME, most guitar players aren't wandering much further than the seat in front of their computer or TV if they're casually jamming at home.

[rd2rk]

Maybe because I used to play semi-pro, maybe because my first teacher told me to, I almost ALWAYS stand up and move around when I play. And even just sitting down, wires are a PITA. Standing FEELS like Rock'n'Roll! Sitting down feels like sleepy time.