Wah Pedal Glitching

[robbieb61]

So this last week at my gigs...I'm noticing my wah pedal on the Helix sounds like crap. 
I'm in the middle of songs onstage so I don't have time to investigate the problem. 

On one of the breaks I tried it out real quick and it sounded as if the pedal was just engaging the wah but having no effect on the frequency to make the "wah" sound.
So I thought that maybe, somehow...a gremlin had caused my settings to magically change and I would have to take a look at it. 

So I had tonight off and I'm playing again tomorrow. So I drug my Helix out of the truck and set it up to fix the problem. 

I selected my wah on the GUI of my Helix floor and stepped on the Expression pedal. Wah came on like it's supposed to ("auto-engage") but it still sounded like it had no high frequencies. Pedal is still set for "minimum 0  maximum 100"...matter of fact none of my settings have changed.

Then I noticed as I worked the pedal that the readout on the Helix was showing it stopping in the high 30's/early 40's instead of going up to 100. So I pressed it all the way down. 
That's when the numbers started going up and down randomly (but never above the low 40's) as if they are "glitching".

So...I got rid of the wah in the signal chain and I'll be using my CryBaby wah pedal (a real one) in front of Helix. Tested it out (haven't used it in a while) and it sounded fantastic.

BUT...I really would like to know what's going on with my Helix Expression pedal. 
Has anyone else had this happen? Is there a "fix"?

[duncann]

Does it do the same thing on another preset?

 

Try backing everything up and then doing a global reset, 5 & 6.

 

I believe it's an optical expression pedal, so maybe there is some sort of obstruction messing with the auto calibration?

[robbieb61]

I have 4 presets with 8 snaps each that I use. And I have 3 different "user" slots with those same presets (each tweaked for different guitar/pickup combos I have).

It does it on all of them. 

I will attempt the global reset solution, but just not sure when. I have a lot of gigs this week to get through and I hate to take a chance.  Hopefully the global reset will work and it won't turn out to be hardware-related.
My Helix has been going strong since I first got it in Oct. of 2015. So I'm crossing my fingers!

[CraigGT]

I'm pretty sure that the HD500X had a pedal calibration function, I'm not sure if Helix has something similar but it might be worth finding out before you do a reset.

[robbieb61]

I'm pretty sure that the HD500X had a pedal calibration function, I'm not sure if Helix has something similar but it might be worth finding out before you do a reset.

It has some kind of "learn" thing on it. I did that. No change.

[Joepeggio]

Same when used as volume pedal?

[robbieb61]

Same when used as volume pedal?

That I don't know because I never use a volume pedal

[Joepeggio]

Put a volume block in a blank preset and test the pedal.

[themetallikid]

I had a similar issue with mine at the last gig.  Although mine would auto-engage and turn on, it would not turn off when returned to that position.  had to change presets and come back to it for it to recall the off position.  I haven't had time to trouble shoot, but I am using an exterior controller (Mission Engineering) that has worked fine up to that gig.

[robbieb61]

I had a similar issue with mine at the last gig.  Although mine would auto-engage and turn on, it would not turn off when returned to that position.  had to change presets and come back to it for it to recall the off position.  I haven't had time to trouble shoot, but I am using an exterior controller (Mission Engineering) that has worked fine up to that gig.

Yeah, mine turns on and off (auto engage)...but won't go past the "40's" on the readout. And then when I push it all the way down...the numbers go up and down in a "glitch-like" manner.

I don't have time this week to get it out at home to try any troubleshooting.  But next week I'm hoping to have a day or two that I can.

[themetallikid]

I will be troubleshooting mine this Friday. I'll report back and see what I find with my situation.  Could be a bad cable possible or something in my situation

[robbieb61]

I will be troubleshooting mine this Friday. I'll report back and see what I find with my situation.  Could be a bad cable possible or something in my situation

Looking forward to reading that. :)

[themetallikid]

So I hooked everything up and when I looked at the wah, I found what was causing my issues. I dont know what changed, or if its something that can be fixed. I'm using a Mission Engineering pedal, just the basic one. I have the wah set to auto engage at 99%, meaning as soon as the toe is lifted it kicks in or off when all the way down. For some reason, it is only reading a max % of 96%. So I just had to adjust the Auto Engage to 95%. Not a big deal, but it worked fine beforehand.

 

Are there anyways for the Helix to learn the Missions sweep range and adapt?

[robbieb61]

Check this out...I played a gig last night. An outdoor gig (brutal in Vegas in the summer).

And just for the heck of it I tried the Helix wah (using the Helix expression pedal)...and now it magically works just fine! WTF?!?!?

Not sure what's going on with this thing.

[robbieb61]

And now at Saturday night's gig it's back to NOT working again.

 

Not sure what to do.

I play too many gigs to be able to send it back for repair.

[zooey]

Ping @Frank Ritchotte, tell him what's up. Maybe they can work out a loaner. Happened to me :)

[robbieb61]

Thanks for that info zooey.

I'm wondering...since it's an optical pedal, is it possible that some dust is in there and blocking the beam of light?

[jbuhajla]

Thanks for that info zooey.

 

I'm wondering...since it's an optical pedal, is it possible that some dust is in there and blocking the beam of light?

If you have an external expression, try that out. Just set you wah block to look for the external and see if it glitches. If not, then there is an issue with your on board expression. Start a support ticket with Line 6 anyway. 

[themetallikid]

Not to hijack, but Ive been having issues with an external (possibly related if the issue is internal with the Helix).  Is there a setting where the Helix can learn a pedals min/max range. 

 

I had no issues the first couple weeks with my external pedal, then just suddenly stopped reading the full range and now only goes from 0-96% or sometimes 97%.  I've adjusted the auto engage range in my presets, but if I miss one the wah just stays on until I change presets and switch back.

[soblivion]

 

I had no issues the first couple weeks with my external pedal, then just suddenly stopped reading the full range and now only goes from 0-96% or sometimes 97%.  I've adjusted the auto engage range in my presets, but if I miss one the wah just stays on until I change presets and switch back.

I'm experiencing something somewhat similar with the built it pedal on my Helix LT. I use the toe switch to engage it though. Toe down it will work properly for about 15 minutes after I first turn it on, then it will only reach 99%, and sometimes even drops to 98%. I've found that If I exert a fair about of force it will reach 100 %, but that often engages the toe switch. I'm not overly concerned when using the pedal for wah. But on occasion I'll use the Pitch Wham(band does a couple Rage covers) and it's just slightly flat at 99%. I have to compensate by slightly bending sharp.

 

I've opened a ticket and it was determined that it needs to be serviced but I'm holding off for the time being as it's not "unusable" per se. I'm going to try an external expression pedal and see how it behaves. If I get the same results I may send it for service.

[themetallikid]

Yeah, I'm holding out hope its something else with mine as its only a month old and its an external pedal issue.  That I'd be willing to accept as the mission pedal is about 5-6 years old, or could possibly be the cable that connects them....but the pedal and cable have been working fine up until the weekend shows that I noticed the issue.  Havent tried linking the on board expression to the wah and seeing if I get the same issue.  Really only use the on board one for volume on a few patches as I like the range/feel of the mission/crybaby style box. 

[HonestOpinion]

This is a total guess on my part but since this problem seems to be happening on pedals that were previously working fine, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the hex bolt for the internal expression pedal loosening up. This might cause the pedal to jitter a little when the footswitches are pressed and maybe that is causing the auto calibration function on the Helix to constantly recalibrate the pedal. Don't have anything to base this on, and it might well be erroneous,  just throwing out some wild conjecture.

[soblivion]

This is a total guess on my part but since this problem seems to be happening on pedals that were previously working fine, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the hex bolt for the internal expression pedal loosening up. This might cause the pedal to jitter a little when the footswitches are pressed and maybe that is causing the auto calibration function on the Helix to constantly recalibrate the pedal. Don't have anything to base this on, and it might well be erroneous,  just throwing out some wild conjecture.

It's funny that you mention this. I decided to setup up one of my patches with the "auto-engage" function rather than use the toe switch. With it setup this way, my toe forward goes to 100% and doesn't seem to exhibit the problem of maxing out at 98-99. My thought is that when using the toe switch the optical sensor is detecting the farthest pitch and auto-calibrating it to 100(if that makes any sense).

 

I did try different tension adjustments but this doesn't seem to help. I'm thinking in my case it's the pressure required to engage via the toe switch causing the issue. Of course this is just a theory. I'm going to use it like this for a while and monitor it.

 

Unfortunately this doesn't help the OP. or themetalkid.   

[themetallikid]

Yeah that is interesting, and worth keeping in mind regarding the toe switch.  Doesn't help with my external pedal situation. 

[robbieb61]

Well, I opened my helix up and there were tiny hairs or dander in there.

So I blew it out and wiped it.

Put it back together and the pedal seems to be working now.

I'm hopeful that solved it and that it won't start doing it again at the gig

[duncann]

So it probably was an obstruction messing with things. Glad you got it working.

 

I let my Helix get rather dusty at times and it doesn't seem to result in any problems, but hairs or dander might do it. Do you have any disrespectful animals crawling around on it?

[robbieb61]

None crawling on it. Lol.

But I do have a couple of dogs.

It was just a few fine hairs inside... I'm guessing that one of them got on the optical thingy and caused it to glitch

[robbieb61]

Quick update:
Pedal worked fine last night at the gig.

So it was definitely just a piece of dust or fine hair blocking the optical on the expression pedal and causing it to glitch. 
So now you know what to do if it happens to you...open her up and dust it out.

[CraigGT]

Quick update:

Pedal worked fine last night at the gig.

 

So it was definitely just a piece of dust or fine hair blocking the optical on the expression pedal and causing it to glitch. 

So now you know what to do if it happens to you...open her up and dust it out.

 

Or buy a can of compressed air from the electronics shop.

 

Craig

[robbieb61]

Or buy a can  of compressed air from the electronics shop.

 

Craig

Absolutely the best way to do it. 

Just be careful not to turn it on directly afterwards. Let it "dry" for a few minutes. Sometimes those cans of air leave a bit of condensation for a few seconds. :)

[robbieb61]

Well...at the gig today, it's back to glitching.

I'm screwed

[brue58ski]

Well...at the gig today, it's back to glitching.

I'm screwed

 

I feel your pain. Did you ever try putting a volume pedal in and seeing if it would glitch on that?

[themetallikid]

Update on my portion of the fun topic....so quick update first:

 

Found out that reason wah was staying on was that it was only reading 0-96/97% if my Mission Engineering pedals travel. 

 

 

So I updated my patches to auto-engage (off) at 95%.  I do a quick check to make sure that it is turning the wah on/off as well before I move to the next patch.  As I'm doing this I'm watching what the Helix does read on my pedal and its back to reading 0-100%. 

[robbieb61]

I feel your pain. Did you ever try putting a volume pedal in and seeing if it would glitch on that?

I'm gonna drag it in tomorrow and try everything I can think of. I'll report on what I find.

[SLICK_strain]

This is a total guess on my part but since this problem seems to be happening on pedals that were previously working fine, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the hex bolt for the internal expression pedal loosening up. This might cause the pedal to jitter a little when the footswitches are pressed and maybe that is causing the auto calibration function on the Helix to constantly recalibrate the pedal. Don't have anything to base this on, and it might well be erroneous,  just throwing out some wild conjecture.

Looks like I'm having the same issue with my Helix LT.

This explanation makes sense to me and fits what I experience on the unit. 

The built in Exp pedal works fine after turn on. I can track values form 0% to 100% on any parameter assigned.

After a while (and now I'm thinking after I have pushed the toe switch a couple of times) the Exp value only gets up to 97% / 98% or so.

Power cycling the Helix LT fixes this.

I think we need an option to turn the auto calibrate off and just perform a manual cal :wacko:

[soblivion]

Looks like I'm having the same issue with my Helix LT.

This explanation makes sense to me and fits what I experience on the unit. 

The built in Exp pedal works fine after turn on. I can track values form 0% to 100% on any parameter assigned.

After a while (and now I'm thinking after I have pushed the toe switch a couple of times) the Exp value only gets up to 97% / 98% or so.

Power cycling the Helix LT fixes this.

I think we need an option to turn the auto calibrate off and just perform a manual cal :wacko:

I believe this is exactly what happens with my LT as well. I've set the wahs and pitch whammy patches to use the "auto-on" feature instead of the toe switch and I don't have any problems. It's only after using the toe switch a number of times that it drifts out of calibration.

[robbieb61]

Okay, pulled it into the house and it was still messed up.
Opened it up, sprayed it out good with compressed air.
Put it back together. Worked perfect.

Played for about 20 minutes using the wah pedal occasionally. Then it started glitching again! WTF???!!!

Went into the settings and inverted the pedal. Now in the up position it was showing 100% and in the down position 18%. Pumped the pedal a couple of times and the down position suddenly went all the way to 0.
Put the pedal back from inverted to normal. Now it's working again from 0 to 100

Does ANYBODY have any idea what is going on with this thing? I THOUGHT it was just dust on the optical light of the pedal...but obviously I was incorrect.

[Joepeggio]

Okay, pulled it into the house and it was still messed up.

Opened it up, sprayed it out good with compressed air.

Put it back together. Worked perfect.

 

Played for about 20 minutes using the wah pedal occasionally. Then it started glitching again! WTF???!!!

 

Went into the settings and inverted the pedal. Now in the up position it was showing 100% and in the down position 18%. Pumped the pedal a couple of times and the down position suddenly went all the way to 0.

Put the pedal back from inverted to normal. Now it's working again from 0 to 100

 

Does ANYBODY have any idea what is going on with this thing? I THOUGHT it was just dust on the optical light of the pedal...but obviously I was incorrect.

Loose solder joint? Loose internal connecting cable?

[robbieb61]

Loose solder joint? Loose internal connecting cable?

From the "back" of the board (which is all I can see when removing the bottom plate of the Helix)...I didn't notice anything like that. 

Today, the wah is still working perfectly. Go figure. 

[zooey]

At this point, I'd contact Support. Since I know you're super busy, arrange a loaner if possible (ping Frank, he's the man), and send it back. It's supposed to just work, and mostly it does, but not yours.