Can Helix Native be used live? If not, why?

[VSCRL]

Hey everyone! 

 

I'm new to the Helix and its functionality, but was wondering if it's possible to just use Helix Native for live shows along with Logic Pro X + MIDI controls to change effects if you have enough computing power. I'm running a 2015 Macbook Pro 2.8 GHz Intel i7 with 16 GB ram. I have yet to purchase Helix, so I'm looking at just getting Native (and skip getting a Helix Rack) if it'll do everything I need. If I need the Helix Rack for sure for live shows, what makes it necessary? Thanks for your help!

 

Jon

VSCRL

[Tcamponovo]

Native should be fine for live use. From my experience and understanding, it would be similar to how keyboard players use computers for midi, etc. onstage. You will need an interface. From the interface, just run into the board (front of house), or into your powered monitors of choice. You'll want to make sure you are in "Low Latency" setting in Logic, as well as having sample rate set as low as possible. If you need footswitches, you may be better off going with the rack + Helix control or just the Helix floor or LT models.  There may be other ways of doing this live, but this should be a totally usable rig. Hope this helps. Good luck and have fun!

[VSCRL]

Native should be fine for live use. From my experience and understanding, it would be similar to how keyboard players use computers for midi, etc. onstage. You will need an interface. From the interface, just run into the board (front of house), or into your powered monitors of choice. You'll want to make sure you are in "Low Latency" setting in Logic, as well as having sample rate set as low as possible. If you need footswitches, you may be better off going with the rack + Helix control or just the Helix floor or LT models.  There may be other ways of doing this live, but this should be a totally usable rig. Hope this helps. Good luck and have fun!

Thanks for the reply Tcamponovo! I have the option to use a Scarlett 2i2 (which would be easier to set up) or a Soundcraft UI16 as the audio interface. For guitar effects, the goal is to be without a foot pedal so I can be free to roam the stage (with a wireless guitar system) and not have to dive across the stage to change my effects during a song. That's the direction I'm going with Logic + MIDI for automatic patch changes. Along with the wireless guitar, it sounds like latency will be the biggest obstacle with this route. All advice is welcome and I'll post my completed rig/setup once it's finish and working well so other Line 6'ers can emulate my setup without any trial & error.

 

Jon

VSCRL

[PeterHamm]

The full functionality of Helix with its loops and foot switch functionality and stuff is really awesome, though, and you won't have that with z=Native.

[rvroberts]

What you want to do is totally possible - but Logic might not be the best platform for that - not my area of expertise (I have a fair bit but not applied to using a DAW live).  

My concern in general is that you are still going to need some way to cue that DAW - you couldn't just start a show and stop at the end however long that takes, so you will still need a midi device of some type - potentially a pedal board?  You are also relying on a computer behaving perfectly for all that time............I'd be very cautious of that!  You would need to turn off everything that was not related (all those little routines that go out to the net or the wifi network just saying "I'm here") so no cycles were lost checking Adobe cloud or something else stupid - so you would need to be sure you had a robust routine to make sure that Laptop (I'm typing this on something very similar) was just doing the job you wanted for the show and absolutely nothing else.  That kind of means your safest path would be to have it devoted to your show and not have a life as a general tool.  You can't have any stray "boings" due to any system events - yes, it's all possible, but what makes something like a Helix floor (which is the most obvious choice for live) so reliable is that although it's a computer, it is purely dedicated to making sound and a OS that does nothing else. Your Mac OS is doing tons by default that has nothing to do with the task at hand.  I know people are doing it for Keys and even running a lighting rig, but those who are having 100% success are either keeping that machine for that one job, or have either personally or through a very tech savy contact created a routine (script or program) for setting that computer to do as little as possible that is unrelated while it does that show.  I've seen something as simple as a powerpoint presentation go terribly wrong many times due to that computer pausing to do something "in the background".

I've also never used Alberton Live, but I've heard it's the most suitable for live shows.........but you probably already have way too much time invested in Logic I suspect?

So outside issues of latency etc, you are expecting a robustness from the system that would trouble me personally!

[Gritch666]

Computer+good interface+midi foot controller+full 400$$native(+maybe daw license) isn't cheaper than Helix lt! Sorry, but I don't see any advantage to do this. Also, you'll get a super fragile rig, cheap computer(understand non heavy duty ex.toughbook) are rarely build to last, USB connection are easy to broke and sensitive to humidity. Also, bigger latency, no sound adjustment on the fly (Helix interface is really nice for that). Even if you already own a daw, interface and your computer, you will need minimum to spend 400 for the license plus 150 for a cheap midi controller Beringer who might give you headache to program and work. For not even the double, you get an heavy duty interface/controller with the software and the computer to run it, without issue and latency and a super slick and nice interface! Man, who want a painful to use Helix!? It will work for sure, kinda.

 

Also, you can always resell your Helix if you want to change, but you can't really resell your software license.

[benlampard]

You probably can use just Native. How are you planning to get sound out to the desk? Your Scarlett 2i2 has line TRS outputs which can go to the desk, but it might be a little awkward.

 

Latency isn't necessarily a problem, I've got something like 12ms in my Reaper sessions on a laptop with 16GB of i7 processors. 

 

I'd say your best bet is to take out the trial version of Native and see if it works for you - maybe go down to a rehearsal room and plug into their PA, see what you think?

[PeterHamm]

Computer+good interface+midi foot controller+full 400$$native(+maybe daw license) isn't cheaper than Helix lt! Sorry, but I don't see any advantage to do this. Also, you'll get a super fragile rig, cheap computer(understand non heavy duty ex.toughbook) are rarely build to last, USB connection are easy to broke and sensitive to humidity. Also, bigger latency, no sound adjustment on the fly (Helix interface is really nice for that). Even if you already own a daw, interface and your computer, you will need minimum to spend 400 for the license plus 150 for a cheap midi controller Beringer who might give you headache to program and work. For not even the double, you get an heavy duty interface/controller with the software and the computer to run it, without issue and latency and a super slick and nice interface! Man, who want a painful to use Helix!? It will work for sure, kinda.

 

Also, you can always resell your Helix if you want to change, but you can't really resell your software license.

 

 

All reasons why I don't generally use a computer live... for anything... sometimes for MainStage sounds from a keyboard, but not even that very often.

 

Hardware is king for live use.

[tedulrich]

It's possible from what I've explored, but if you're already using Logic I'd suggest dropping the $30 for Mainstage as it's far more suitable for performance use. 

[tommasoferrarese]

It's possible from what I've explored, but if you're already using Logic I'd suggest dropping the $30 for Mainstage as it's far more suitable for performance use.

 

This! MainStage is a permanent part of my live rig, and now it's mainstage plus helix floor.. it's one of the most powerful pieces of gear I've ever used!

[spikey]

All reasons why I don't generally use a computer live... for anything...

 

 

Actually, you are if using Helix,  as its running two SHARC's.   :P 

[PeterHamm]

Actually, you are if using Helix,  as its running two [/size]SHARC's.   :P[/size] [/size]

but no fiddle connections or crash prone OS or delicate laptop stuff

[sheehanje]

First off - yes, you can use Native and a PC or Laptop for live performance.   There is nothing stopping you.   Helix rack, floor or LT simplifies things, but I've successfully run live with other VST products.  Even doing the whole band through a DAW monitored through a PA (Superior Drummer triggered via a electric drum kit, VST's for Vocals, Bass, keyboards and Guitar).   Was an experiment at the time, and this was about 5 or 6 years ago.  It worked.  It did take quite a bit of uplift and testing before the show though. 

 

In a twist, I recently used the Helix Floor as an interface to record the whole band for writing sessions, so while it wasn't a Native plugin, I had a laptop with DAW and was running the drums electric again.  That worked great and I didn't have to unmount my recording interface from my studio desk to record the band at my drummers house.

 

Right now, until I get a Helix LT to backup my Helix Floor, I will use native as an emergency backup rig.

 

If you want to try this, don't let others discourage you.  Test it.  Test it again.  and again.....

 

Here are some tips:

 

SSD in the PC or Laptop helps mitigate vibration and magnetic issues.   I use a Surface 3 Pro tablet/laptop now - works great.

Interface - you want to get as little latency as you can.   If I were still going live, I'd probably use a full laptop or PC with a firewire or thunderbolt interface.  Chipsets matter too, you get what you pay for in that regard.

RAM and CPU Processing Power - again, this helps latency and from glitching.  I recommend a newer generation chipset with 8GB RAM.

OS Tweaking - there are plenty of guides for using Windows, Linux or Mac as a DAW for studio - same thing applies live.   You don't want updates to kick off in the middle of a show.

Cabling - have everything labeled clearly.  Under the dim lights of the local venue with 20 minutes to setup, this becomes essential

Bring a flashlight - see above

Make sure you have a sturdy stand for your laptop.   This is the one reason I wouldn't use this setup these days - I play to some very rowdy crowds in small venues.

Have a backup plan.

Again:  Testing, testing, testing.   

 

 

There are some rewards to these kinds of setups.   Like live recording and using other VSTs/Plugins to go with Helix Native.   

 

As far as debunking some of the things said here:  Price ---  most people wanting to use Helix Native already have a DAW setup.  I don't think most people that would want to do this would want to build a system from scratch just for live playing.  They probably already have most of the components.

Live tweaking -  I don't think I've used my Helix Floor once to tweak in the middle of a set.  I haven't needed to.  I guess it's a nice option to have, but tweaking from a laptop is very easy - and if you are following the testing, testing, testing suggestion, most of the tweaking is done before the show.

 

 

Good luck and happy jamming.

[VSCRL]

First off - yes, you can use Native and a PC or Laptop for live performance.   There is nothing stopping you.   Helix rack, floor or LT simplifies things, but I've successfully run live with other VST products.  Even doing the whole band through a DAW monitored through a PA (Superior Drummer triggered via a electric drum kit, VST's for Vocals, Bass, keyboards and Guitar).   Was an experiment at the time, and this was about 5 or 6 years ago.  It worked.  It did take quite a bit of uplift and testing before the show though. 

 

In a twist, I recently used the Helix Floor as an interface to record the whole band for writing sessions, so while it wasn't a Native plugin, I had a laptop with DAW and was running the drums electric again.  That worked great and I didn't have to unmount my recording interface from my studio desk to record the band at my drummers house.

 

Right now, until I get a Helix LT to backup my Helix Floor, I will use native as an emergency backup rig.

 

If you want to try this, don't let others discourage you.  Test it.  Test it again.  and again.....

 

Here are some tips:

 

SSD in the PC or Laptop helps mitigate vibration and magnetic issues.   I use a Surface 3 Pro tablet/laptop now - works great.

Interface - you want to get as little latency as you can.   If I were still going live, I'd probably use a full laptop or PC with a firewire or thunderbolt interface.  Chipsets matter too, you get what you pay for in that regard.

RAM and CPU Processing Power - again, this helps latency and from glitching.  I recommend a newer generation chipset with 8GB RAM.

OS Tweaking - there are plenty of guides for using Windows, Linux or Mac as a DAW for studio - same thing applies live.   You don't want updates to kick off in the middle of a show.

Cabling - have everything labeled clearly.  Under the dim lights of the local venue with 20 minutes to setup, this becomes essential

Bring a flashlight - see above

Make sure you have a sturdy stand for your laptop.   This is the one reason I wouldn't use this setup these days - I play to some very rowdy crowds in small venues.

Have a backup plan.

Again:  Testing, testing, testing.   

 

 

There are some rewards to these kinds of setups.   Like live recording and using other VSTs/Plugins to go with Helix Native.   

 

As far as debunking some of the things said here:  Price ---  most people wanting to use Helix Native already have a DAW setup.  I don't think most people that would want to do this would want to build a system from scratch just for live playing.  They probably already have most of the components.

Live tweaking -  I don't think I've used my Helix Floor once to tweak in the middle of a set.  I haven't needed to.  I guess it's a nice option to have, but tweaking from a laptop is very easy - and if you are following the testing, testing, testing suggestion, most of the tweaking is done before the show.

 

 

Good luck and happy jamming.

 

First of all - Wow! I'm impressed with the Line 6 community. Thank you all for your feedback!

 

Price - Yep, I already have a DAW, so it's cheaper to go with Native (the main reason I was considering it). 

 

Logic Pro X - We use this to run our metronome and lighting, so using Helix Native alongside Logic makes sense if I want to have automatic guitar effect changes happen during our set and eliminate the need for a guitar pedal.

 

Testing - I agree that a ton of testing is necessary and will for sure prove whether this is ultimately viable or not with my setup.

 

Sturdiness - Running around with this laptop at venues with metal crowds is pretty scary haha. I agree that the Helix Rack would be superior, but we're already using a computer for metronome/lights, so it'll be at the venue anyway.

 

Main Stage - We've been using it for awhile, but moved away from it when we started doing light shows. This made it so we only needed to use Logic and not need Logic + Mainstage running at the same time. We put our whole set in Logic as a single track and label each song just in case we have to stop mid-set.

 

MIDI Controller - We using MIDI inside of Logic to do everything... I could be wrong, but I think it'll work for everything we need - lights + guitar effect changes (I know it works for the lights, and I haven't tried it yet but I think it'll work for the effects).

 

Computer - Yep, definitely worried about Logic crashing or lagging mid-set or some other horrible occurrence. But usually crowds understand when there are technical issues and they go with the flow. When they don't.. oh well. Can't make this 100% lollipop-storm-proof.

 

We'll test this setup thoroughly and get back to you guys on the results. I might end up getting the Helix Rack anyway, but I still don't know how to run it alongside our metronome/set in Logic to do automatic guitar effect changes. Does anyone know how? That's another reason why I'm opting for Helix Native is because I think it'll be easier to integrate it with the MIDI in Logic. The main downside is having the computer process the guitar effects... I'm not sure how much stress that'll put on the computer. I wouldn't want that to cause it to crash and mess up our whole show.

 

Thank you all for your input!

 

Jon

VSCRL

[sheehanje]

If you think the Metal crowd is rowdy, try a punk or hardcore crowd.   We play mostly metal but get billed with a lot of those bands because we are on the fringes of it.

 

Everything can have an issue.  My helix floor locked up yesterday for no apparent reason during boot up.   Restarting fixed it.   I've had tube amps get microphonic squeal during the middle of sets.  I've had beer spilled on my M13 which shorted out the jack.   Nothing is 100% foolproof - but the basic rule is the less in the chain the less that can go wrong.

 

Good luck with testing and performance, let us know how it goes!

[eigensatz]

I am actually doing it and wrote about my motivation and experience so far in the Native Forum:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/29698-helix-native-for-live-use-my-setup/

 

Would be curious to see if others do it as well and how their setup looks like.

 

So far, I didn't have any problems with background tasks of the operating system or anything like that and I didn't take any precoucious measures on that yet. But I am only using this setup for a couple of weeks and I will post updates about my experiences. It is probably true that the probablility of a failure might be a bit higher with a laptop than with the floor-board when you just take your personal laptop to your gigs. If you plan to use this professionally (I am not a professional but still play and gig frequently) it might be worth looking into how to make your system stable. For my specific use case I just think the advantages make it totally worth it and I am super happy so far. Best rig I ever had. Also because I am in love with the Mobius looper that I can now easily attach to the end of the Signal Chain. But I would definately advise to test it and see how it works for you.

[DunedinDragon]

This is kind of like asking, "The Ford cars in NASCAR are based on the Ford Fusion, could I take my Ford Fusion I just bought from my local dealership and run it in the Daytona 500?"

 

Well....yes you could.  However, you're talking about a version of Helix designed for the recording studio doing the job of one that's specifically designed for live use.  The same as a street Ford Fusion is designed for running to the grocery store and not for a 500 mile race.

 

To me the ultimate question is always about "what is it designed to do?"  If you want to press it beyond what it was designed for and use it in areas it wasn't designed to do, that's your choice, and your consequences.

[eigensatz]

@DunedinDragon: Firstly, let me take this chance to thank you for your fantastic posts here on the forum. Especially your insights and summaries on tone shaping were the most helpful for me to make my first steps in helix tone design. On the matter at hand, however, I think we have a bit of a different visions for the future. Playing VST Plugins through a laptop has became a common practice for other instruments, especially keyboards, but also vocals and electronic drums. I think it was (will be?) just a matter of time until this is also a completely viable alternative for guitarists. It is true, that the current Helix Native is lacking some crucial features like program changes through MIDI or being able to run in standalone mode. I wouldn't even be surprised if these features were held back deliberately since they might be critically affecting hardware sales? Although some comments of Line 6 on these matters indicate, that this could change in the future, which would make Helix Native an official alternative to the floor units even for live use. I agree, that currently, there is some work for the user to make it happen, but Helix Native is really not so far away from the floor units. I mean the crucial part, the modelling, is identical and everything else can be taken care of by other modules, like keyboarders have been doing for a while now. I am not saying you are wrong with your judgement of the current situation but your answer to me is a bit too one-sided when taking future developments into account. I believe that Software and Hardware based modelling solutions for live use will soon co-exist and it will be a matter of personal preferences and other factors that decide which of them is the better option. I am happy to be an early adopter and advocate of this alternative :)

[HonestOpinion]

... Playing VST Plugins through a laptop has became a common practice for other instruments, especially keyboards, but also vocals and electronic drums. I think it was (will be?) just a matter of time until this is also a completely viable alternative for guitarists. ...

 

I totally agree. I think many musicians envision a future for Helix or other devices that would include not only the type of current hardware and architecture that is so well suited to live performance but would actually allow native as well as perhaps third party VST's to run on the Helix directly, even if in the early stages of development they had to be edited with the help of a computer but run locally without a computer attached. This would offer the robust operation, I/O options, and foot control offered by a dedicated floorboard but also the incredible flexibility and power of all the VST software out there that currently only runs on a computer or some of the new "hybrid" hardware coming out.

 

This would essentially also add an Open Source element to the Helix which would be fantastic as there are so many great free VSTs to be had (including tons of cool amp models and effects). Several manufacturers are already clearly headed in that direction. I know there are huge technical challenges, particularly in maintaining crash free units fit for live performance with minimal latency but there is just no way I don't see VSTs coming to floorboards in the future, it is already happening. Essentially "all" we are talking about is a self-contained specialized computer, OS, and software, wrapped up in the right hardware package for stage. Someone will get it right and I hope Line6 is included as they are IMHO way ahead of every manufacturer when it comes to designing hardware that is ideal for stage (studio too). No one else even comes close to the Helix's physical attributes and features although there are other devices that have specific features I would love to see incorporated into the Helix. Two worlds colliding (computer based VSTs and floorboards).

 

Vote it up! https://line6.ideascale.com/a/idea-v2/869179

[eigensatz]

Wow, your vision goes even further than mine  :D

 

Yes, this would be nice indeed. It will be interesting to observe how industry reacts in the comming years. Who knows, I am just a guy without any deep understanding of the entire guitar industry, but from my personal experience, I would bet that tube amps will disappear someday and then it will be very interesting to see what all the current manufacturers will come up with to replace their product line. I mean, they are already reacting right now with more and more modeling amps from more and more companies. But these are still amps and maybe this is too incremental and only an intermediate step. Maybe the true progress will indeed lie in portable units like floorboards that can load all kinds of stuff onto it and that can be flexibly configured. I know the Helix is already quite close, but its still a rather closed system.

 

Anyway, I love the time we live in and that awesome companies like Line 6 dared to challenge the dominance of tubes that were the sacred holy grail for guitar amplification for so many years. Every time I play around with my Helix I am in awe of all the possibilities and freedom this technology provides me with and the cost is riddiculous compared to what I would have had to pay for the same experience 30 years ago.

[DunedinDragon]

ON THE SUBJECT OF PC-BASED MODELING IN LIVE SITUATIONS:

 

I thought it might be appropriate for me to clarify where I stand on such things given the turn of this discussion.

 

First, I want to clarify that I agree this is the natural progression of this technology over time.  The market has proven time and time again that open, integrable systems create robust markets that everyone (consumers and vendors) benefit from.  My concerns in this regard are more about the state of the industry and the state of the technology in getting us there.  I realize there are many people at this point that are willing to do make the leap of using laptops in live performances in order to incorporate off-the-shelf capabilities found in the DAW world into live performances.  I wish them luck with their endeavors, but I'm just not willing to make that leap yet for a number of reasons.

 

I built a successful career as a systems programmer from which I retired in 2001.  But I was fortunate to be in the business during the development and growth of the current crop of operating systems we see most used prominently today such as Windows, the Apple OS, various versions of Unix, and Linux.  In addition to those I worked fairly extensively in real-time operating systems for military applications such as HP's RTE.  I point this out because this is really the core difference between Helix floor units and Laptop applications such as Native.

 

The difference between a commercial grade, general purpose OS and a real-time, dedicated OS comes down to whether you want flexibility or dependability.  As amazing and capable as laptops are you have to look no further than the services listing in task manager to understand all of the capabilities and utilities being actively supported in an OS such as Windows, all of which steal processing cycles and have interdependencies on other component services to be well behaved in order for the system to remain stable. These are the things that make a PC integrate effectively and safely with the world of things built by outside vendors, but are also the core reasons for latency and instability.  Having a real-time, dedicated OS such as that in the Helix reduces the potential for such problems at the cost of a lack of flexibility to incorporate outside components.

 

I do think the industry will eventually lead to a happy medium between these two being developed eventually, but we're not there yet and we probably a few years away from it right now.  In the meantime, were I Line 6 I would be hesitant to support Native being used in a live situation simply due to the fact that they and their product would be blamed for any failure in terms of stability of latency when in fact it very easily could have nothing to do with them but rather with the specific configuration of the service components of 3rd party vendors on that specific laptop.

 

Think about it.  How many times has Line 6 taken the heat and the blame for FW updates failing or Editor problems which were not due to their software, but rather to the specific configuration and operation of the PC being used to update it?  Were you to use Native in a live performance and it resulted in a system error that required a full reboot of the system, or that suddenly your latency went crazy, who are you going to blame?  The likelihood is not that Native was doing something wrong, but that some well-behaved request for services on their part such as memory allocation or access to load a component caused a memory fault because someone in the chain of events didn't follow all the specifications for being a well-behaved application or service...in other words nothing that Line 6 could ever have accounted for or have any control over.  This is the world of a general purpose operating system.

 

If people want to take those kind of chances for using Native live that's up to them.  But they should be responsible enough to assume the repercussions of that decision and not blame the vendor who never designed that application to be used that way.

[eigensatz]

Thanks DunedinDragon, very interesting and detailed answer as usual :)

 

I absolutely agree with your assessment and from that viewpoint it totally makes sense to warn people about what they are getting into. I guess I was just never looking at this that way because I am a tinkerer and optimist and I know quite well what I am getting into so I would never blame Line 6 for things that are out of their control but would rather see it as a challenge to find a solution.

 

Since most of your concern is about stability I guess one major factor is also what you expect. For hobby guitarists that play small venues like me, the off chance that an OS messes with your setup is a reasonable tradeoff for what you get for it. I mean as another poster stated above, there are numerous things that can go wrong anyway and in the "before times" we used tubes in our amps, YES, TUBES. I mean what can be more stoneage and unrelieable than that? Its like using candles in the surgery room of the hospital and going "oh, nothing beats the warmth and dynamic feel of candle light, I would never operate with artificial light"  :P

 

If you are going pro and any technical problem at a gig would be a disaster,, definately think about the concequences and fragilities of bringing a Laptop into the mix. On the other hand, in my experience it is far less problematic than it sounds, at least if you are not completely repelled by computers. I mean, we use personal computers and laptops for many critical things nowadays. I know that for really critical stuff these are shielded and designated devices, but there are still a lot of application areas where there are pretty much normal machines even connected to the internet. And it works... 99.9% of the time ;) Again it is simply a tradeoff between different objectives: stability, flexibility, cost, weight, style ...

 

All this talk about future developments made me really curious and happy about what will await us in the years to come :)

[Thurston9]

Thanks for the reply Tcamponovo! I have the option to use a Scarlett 2i2 (which would be easier to set up) or a Soundcraft UI16 as the audio interface. For guitar effects, the goal is to be without a foot pedal so I can be free to roam the stage (with a wireless guitar system) and not have to dive across the stage to change my effects during a song. That's the direction I'm going with Logic + MIDI for automatic patch changes. Along with the wireless guitar, it sounds like latency will be the biggest obstacle with this route. All advice is welcome and I'll post my completed rig/setup once it's finish and working well so other Line 6'ers can emulate my setup without any trial & error.

 

Jon

VSCRL

How do you use MIDI to change effects automatically?  Do you play to a click?

[jbuhajla]

How do you use MIDI to change effects automatically?  Do you play to a click?

If you are playing along with a DAW project, then you can lay down a MIDI automation track in the DAW that would send out MIDI commands wherever you put them in the project. So yes, you can automate changing effects mid song. You could do this currently with Helix LT/Floor/Rack. I don't think Native will take MIDI commands yet for preset/FS changes. 

[Thurston9]

But what in the DAW is he playing along to that is keeping time for the changes?

[Thurston9]

If you are playing along with a DAW project, then you can lay down a MIDI automation track in the DAW that would send out MIDI commands wherever you put them in the project. So yes, you can automate changing effects mid song. You could do this currently with Helix LT/Floor/Rack. I don't think Native will take MIDI commands yet for preset/FS changes. 

Do you play to a click in the DAW?  Or something else?  What I'm asking is how does the DAW know when to send the MIDI to make a change?

[jbuhajla]

Do you play to a click in the DAW?  Or something else?  What I'm asking is how does the DAW know when to send the MIDI to make a change?

 

Yes, you would have to have a click activated. 

[amsdenj]

My band’s rehearsal setup is completely computer based. At the core is a Mac Book Pro and a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. This supports five vocals, MIDI drums (just MIDI triggers, the drums are software inLogic), two MIDI keyboard controllers into separate Logic tracks with all software instruments, two electric guitars using FCB1010s for MIDI control and based around S-Gear, and bass using Cerberus bass amp. Everything goes through a rack headphone amp. We are thrilled with how well this works. There’s no latency, no glitches, never any OS issues.

 

However, this was not an easy thing to design, setup and maintain. That’s the biggest issue using a computer for live music. I’m not so worried about the OS or machine capability anymore. That use to be a problem, but this seem to have improved a lot in the last 10 years or so. But with all that flexibility comes the responsibility to do a lot of things yourself. If you don’t mind putting in the effort to design and build a system, it can be very flexible, functional and rewarding.

 

I don’t however use any of this live. Helix floor is too convenient, simple, easy to use and reliable. We do use a computer to run the PA since its an X32-Core rack unit that has no hardware interface. This has also worked out well, and serves as my backup if anything happens to Helix. My live rig consists of JTV-69S, Helix, two JBL EON610 that I run as a backline. The PA rack and computer sit on top of my 610s with the whole thing taking up a pretty small footprint.