Cosmos Echo - Wow!

[Verne-Bunsen]

I just updated tonight and must say that the Cosmos Echo is my favorite thing so far. Just replaced all of my delays with it. It's killer. Great work across the board on this update, and a big high 5 for the Cosmos Echo!

[willjrock]

Its good, but im not wowed by it. First of all, whats up with that one random delay stab every once in a while? I cant seem to dial it out. Next up is the headroom. It sounds good a bit lower, but it messes with my guitar tone a bit much. Bringing the mix down helps some yeah, but that dials out the wow/flutter and i like that rather high on this model. Lastly im not sure about the dry thru. I cant seem to find its use. Oh and the ramp. Havent noticed any difference in its use either.

 

All negative stuff i know. Im not down on this effect. I rather like it. Just pointing out some of the things holding it back for my tastes.

[duncann]

I think the random delay stab might be related to the splice parameter; if it's zero it might not be so prevalent? I also notice that this effect doesn't have much headroom, especially if placed after the amp. Try putting a weaker signal into it. I agree that the other parameters you mention are difficult at best to tell what they are doing.

 

I find this effect works best with cleaner tones. And also, if you want a wide stereo field, which it lacks by itself, use two of them in parallel.

[zooey]

My assumption is that ramp affects how fast the delay time changes if you control it with a pedal or footswitch. Haven't tested that.

 

I don't find the splice glitch thing particularly endearing either, bit it doesn't bum me out. I keep it low.

 

It does have a headroom parameter you can crank up, but unlike some to other Helix delays, so far I like the default of not much.

 

In general I like it. Sort of random delay spacing but not really, works for me as sparse somewhat lo-fi ambience.

[willjrock]

I think the random delay stab might be related to the splice parameter; if it's zero it might not be so prevalent? I also notice that this effect doesn't have much headroom, especially if placed after the amp. Try putting a weaker signal into it. I agree that the other parameters you mention are difficult at best to tell what they are doing.

 

I find this effect works best with cleaner tones. And also, if you want a wide stereo field, which it lacks by itself, use two of them in parallel.

Appreciate your input duncann.  One area where i think L6 is making improvements in its modeling, is making controls more meaningful. Its kind of pointless (not always) if you have to really squint to hear something.

Im sure you have noticed the older amp models have multiple controls that dont really do a lot. Seems like we're seeing less and less of that with the newer models. Take the ripple control for instance, just find a happy medium for it and get rid of it. Its not making any difference one way or the other so the option is a waste of space.

 

I appreciate deep control when plausible, but having controls that make nearly no difference to the sound, just seems rather pointless IMO....and im not saying that about every control ive mentioned here. Maybe my head just hasnt wrapped around it yet, and im cool with that.

[duncann]

Appreciate your input duncann.  One area where i think L6 is making improvements in its modeling, is making controls more meaningful. Its kind of pointless (not always) if you have to really squint to hear something.

Im sure you have noticed the older amp models have multiple controls that dont really do a lot. Seems like we're seeing less and less of that with the newer models. Take the ripple control for instance, just find a happy medium for it and get rid of it. Its not making any difference one way or the other so the option is a waste of space.

 

I appreciate deep control when plausible, but having controls that make nearly no difference to the sound, just seems rather pointless IMO....and im not saying that about every control ive mentioned here. Maybe my head just hasnt wrapped around it yet, and im cool with that.

 

I understand what you're saying. The hum and ripple parameters I never touch either, because any changes seem nearly imperceptible. Too many insignificant parameters can quickly clutter things up and make it overcomplicated for little to no effect.

It would be useful for Line 6 to at least slightly document parameters that are named something different than on the original models so we're not poking around nearly blind. But in any case, it's still fun to just mess around with to see what everything does.

The other new effect, the doubler modulation, has some parameters with not much of a clue as to what they do. But I did read a post on tgp by someone from Line 6 (not Ben Adrian) explaining this effect. Stuff like that is most helpful.

[Digital_Igloo]

If you don't like the splice (which is part of the original RE-201 Space Echo and gets worse as the tape and heads age), set it to 0.0. Gone.

[Verne-Bunsen]

I agree regarding the splice function. I turned it up to check it out, heard the bizarre artifacts, scrunched my face up as though to say "...wha...?", and turned it promptly back to zero. Not for me. Which is fine. I've been running it before clean amps and after dirty ones, results have been most enjoyable.

[jpdennis]

I agree regarding the splice function. I turned it up to check it out, heard the bizarre artifacts, scrunched my face up as though to say "...wha...?", and turned it promptly back to zero. Not for me. Which is fine. I've been running it before clean amps and after dirty ones, results have been most enjoyable.

 

Verne-Bunsen +1 for the initial comment and for the insight.  I have just upgraded; "after" my Saturday show due to work.  It went very smooth.  I had a RE 201 back in the day I would sometimes use when my tube echoplex was waiting for a new tape and can't wait to hear what this model will do based upon where in the path I put it.

[hideout]

Can you “slam the tape with signal†but have minimal delay or echo? What I’m hoping for here is tape saturation.

[sb77]

The HIGHLIGHT  of the upgrade. A very usable emulation of the fabulous Space Echo. Thanks Line 6 and you have this over on Fractal  ;)

[zooey]

Can you “slam the tape with signal†but have minimal delay or echo? What I’m hoping for here is tape saturation.

Not that I could figure out. Far as I can tell, the Headroom parameter has no effect on the non-effect side of the Balance control, and the minimum delay time is way too long to treat it as no delay.

 

I'd love to be wrong.

[HonestOpinion]

I love the Cosmos delay, great addition! It does use quite a bit of DSP. Probably to be expected for that kind of effect with that many parameters although perhaps it can be further optimized. I only noticed because I went to add an LA Comp on my signal path (Super Serial x2) on one of my presets and it and just about everything else were grayed out when I had the Cosmos in the path. I was able to easily add an LA Comp and a phaser after swapping the Cosmos for another delay. Very happy to have this great sounding delay and an inspired choice by Line6 to add it but just be aware it does chew up some DSP. Glad to see this level of complexity and attention to detail in an effect block though. I am more than willing to sacrifice the DSP for effects like these. Finding a way to reduce the amount of DSP used without impacting the quality of the effect would be ideal but perhaps impossible?

 

Note: This was on a preset that had three amps set up going through a single cab as well as a couple of effects and EQ. An arrangement I often use in  a preset to emulate a multi channel amp.

[PeterHamm]

LOVE the Cosmos delay. Always leave a little splice in. Don't want my music too pure...

[hideout]

Not that I could figure out. Far as I can tell, the Headroom parameter has no effect on the non-effect side of the Balance control, and the minimum delay time is way too long to treat it as no delay.

 

I'd love to be wrong.

 

 

Dang it!  I hope you're wrong too.  ;)

[HonestOpinion]

...

The other new effect, the doubler modulation, has some parameters with not much of a clue as to what they do. But I did read a post on tgp by someone from Line 6 (not Ben Adrian) explaining this effect. Stuff like that is most helpful.

 

Duncann, could you please post this up if you locate the reference from TGP. Thanks!

[mileskb]

First of all, whats up with that one random delay stab every once in a while? I cant seem to dial it out. Next up is the headroom. It sounds good a bit lower, but it messes with my guitar tone a bit much. Bringing the mix down helps some yeah, but that dials out the wow/flutter and i like that rather high on this model. Lastly im not sure about the dry thru. I cant seem to find its use. Oh and the ramp. Havent noticed any difference in its use either.

 

So what you're saying is that it acts just like an RE-201 Space Echo. :)

 

Although, I wish there was a more this = that for the controls because this effect has more control than the real unit had.

 

I think splice may have to do with the length of the tape loop as example.

[duncann]

Duncann, could you please post this up if you locate the reference from TGP. Thanks!

 

Sure thing: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/line6-helix.1586637/page-2275#post-25296691

 

For anyone who can't access the link, here's the text from the post in question by SHwang_Guitars:

 

Hello! I'm Sam, one of the sound designers here at line 6. I'm not the most active on forums (not super experienced in posting... ) since so many of our line 6 friends here are usually better spoken than myself. I've worked on quite a few models for the Helix, and first of all I want to state that I love how much great and useful feedback our community provides for something we are so passionate about. We will keep doing our best to help you all love what you do more freely and easily!

 

that said, I wanted to give a bit of an in-depth rundown specifically for the Double Take double tracker.

 

The Double Take is a new double tracking effect made specifically for the Helix. Having spent a lot of time listening to a plethora of double tracked instruments, we found that the way a part is performed has a huge effect on how the layered tracks would feel. With this in mind, we wanted to make a new double track effect that responds dynamically with the way the player performs, adding the real-world dimension and depth you would get from having multiple recordings of a single part. This led to a whole new design from the ground up, with a lot of tuning available for the amount and types of variation between the doubled voices. This makes for the ability to have an incredibly realistic sounding and feeling double tracker with the ability to shape the feel at your finger(and foot-)tips.

 

Doubles

The main "Doubles" knob controls the number of double tracks into the mix from one to four generated voices, and in the stereo versions, the dry signal is assigned to a specified pan location. (Dry signal is underlined)

1 = Left and Right

2 = Left, Center, Right

3 = Left, Left, Right, Right

4 = Left, Left, Center, Right, Right

Note: as each extra voice is added, there is a post-effect level compensation such that the overall dB of the remains about uniform. You can make up this change with the two output knobs if you want the same level hitting whatever you send the doubled tracks in to. Also since these are hard pans, you an also use the "stereo width" block to control how wide this effect is in the stereo field.

 

Slop

The Slop knob controls the amount of the slight variations in timing and pitch you would hear from each of the doubled voices. The variations are what we like to call "Defined Randomness" as this amount and timing is directly coupled with the dynamics of the original part. This knob controls the heart of this effect, as it will define the voices from tight and refined at low settings and all the way to(too?) wild and dynamic at max. With this knob you can set such that a softer touch there isn't much change to the original performance, but the harder you dig in, the more the doubled voices' strings stretch, slap around, and become widely de-correlated.

 

Sensitivity

This knob controls the sensitivity of the slop feature. The lower this parameter is set there will be less dynamic behavior from the voices. This can be viewed more or less like a threshold or input gain of a compressor, but specifically for the slop's detection algorithm.

 

Source (Stereo only)

The Double take can have a true stereo path. This parameter determines how the input signal is processed by the effect.

Mono: Input will be summed to mono then processed by the Double Take

True Stereo: Each side will be sent as a true stereo path, and each extra voice will be sent to the side of the source pan.

Left Only: Only the left input will be sent into the Double Take

Right Only: Only the right input will be sent into the Double Take

 

Dry and Wet Levels

Instead of a This controls the level of the original dry signal as it passes through the effect. Note the Dry Level Location above.

Note: In "True Stereo" mode, the dry signal for the right will only be used for the doubles and will not pass through the effect. In "Right Only" mode, the Right channel will be sent to the left or center according to the Doubles parameter.

 

Personally, I like to put it either after my amp and cab if I'm using the stereo version, or in mono right in front of the rig just after my guitar... but I'm sure all you lovelies will find some more amazing uses! Hope you guys found this informative and it helps you have fun. :)  sorry for the long post :X thank you.

----------------------------------------------------

Sound Designer - Line 6 Inc.

[HonestOpinion]

Sure thing: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/line6-helix.1586637/page-2275#post-25296691

 

For anyone who can't access the link, here's the text from the post in question by SHwang_Guitars:

 

Thx!

[mousepunk]

On 11/28/2017 at 5:13 AM, Digital_Igloo said:

If you don't like the splice (which is part of the original RE-201 Space Echo and gets worse as the tape and heads age), set it to 0.0. Gone.

Is it possible to make this splice controllable so it could appear by my will, not random? Maybe even make the dedicated effect based on this splice? :)

And also, where is the head 4 which was in the Legacy effect? Why only 3 heads? I wish I could replicate my Legacy preset in stereo with this Cosmos echo effect.

[datacommando]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:00 PM, mousepunk said:

Is it possible to make this splice controllable so it could appear by my will, not random? Maybe even make the dedicated effect based on this splice? :)

And also, where is the head 4 which was in the Legacy effect? Why only 3 heads? I wish I could replicate my Legacy preset in stereo with this Cosmos echo effect.

 

Interesting that you think Digital Igloo would reply to a comment that's almost 6 years old? Even though he is the man who really could answer your question.

 

PLEASE NOTE:

There are no Line staff here and only very occasionally do they visit these forums - See the “sticky comment” in the black banner stripe at the top of this page entitled “Welcome to the Line 6 forums”

 

This link is where you need to go to have any hope of it been seen by anyone from Line 6:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/index

 

Before posting any  new ideas, please do a search to see if it's already been listed. Multiple requests for the same thing will thin out the votes. Also, post your ideas one at a time. Many users don’t vote for combined suggestions.

You should use this thread to let other users know what your suggestions are, with links to IdeaScale, so they can vote on it if they wish.

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/14497-helix-ideascale-community-submissions/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[mousepunk]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:33 PM, datacommando said:

 

Interesting that you think Digital Igloo would reply to a comment that's almost 6 years old? Even though he is the man who really could answer your question.

 

PLEASE NOTE:

There are no Line staff here and only very occasionally do they visit these forums - See the “sticky comment” in the black banner stripe at the top of this page entitled “Welcome to the Line 6 forums”

 

This link is where you need to go to have any hope of it been seen by anyone from Line 6:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/index

 

Before posting any  new ideas, please do a search to see if it's already been listed. Multiple requests for the same thing will thin out the votes. Also, post your ideas one at a time. Many users don’t vote for combined suggestions.

You should use this thread to let other users know what your suggestions are, with links to IdeaScale, so they can vote on it if they wish.

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/14497-helix-ideascale-community-submissions/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Thank you! I know where he will read and reply, will post it there )

[datacommando]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:59 PM, mousepunk said:

will post it there

TGP - that’s your best chance.