Instructions And Interface Not Great

[gopjoj]

Okay, a bit of a rant coming up. 

 

If, like me, you're going from tube amp and pedal setup to Helix, then be prepared for a geek-level learning process. Personally, I detest manuals. They are a sure sign an interface hasn't been designed well. You don't need a manual for an iphone. Or an ipad. And why not? Because the interface has been designed well. 

 

The Line6 interface is okay, but inconsistent. Various buttons change functions often, and, no, hitting "home" doesn't always return you...well, home. I'm no stranger to tech - I know my way around Logic Pro X and  have worked as a systems administrator, but this product often makes me feel stupid. 

 

If you're thinking of switching from amp and pedal setup to a Helix, be prepared to spend some time with the manual. If you don't see the outcome the manual describes, you often find yourself cursing at the frustration of it all. As I did. Many instructions are conditional. For example "A third footswitch mode - looper mode - is only available if a Looper block has been assigned to a footswitch in Stomp mode. From Stomp mode, press the footswitch labeled "Looper" (if available)". 

 

Erm....no, can't see this "footswitch" labeled "Looper". What is Stomp mode again? What does the graphic mean - it's not what I'm seeing on the device? 

 

Sigh. 

 

There are 61 pages of this.

 

What would be really useful would be some step-by-step videos. What would have been even more useful would be a learning mode that steps you through the functions. 

 

I know I need to spend time with this unit, but that's kinda the point - I really don't want to. I guess, in a few weeks time, I'll be comfortable making it do everything it claims to do, but just a word of warning to those who want an instant hit - there is a learning curve. And perhaps a plea to Line6 to put more thought into their training materials. 

 

/rant

[silverhead]

 

[phil_m]

Did your Helix come with the Cheat Sheet in the box? That should get you like 80% of the way there. When I got my Helix beta unit, I had no manual, and didn’t have the cheat sheet right away, and I was able to figure a lot of the functionality just by messing with it. I’ve also been using multi-fix units for 20 years, so I guess there’s some amount of shared vocabulary just because of that.

 

I’m confused as to what you say about the Home button, because it should always take you back to the Home, Signal Flow screen. It won’t change the footswitch though. I also don’t necessarily agree that everything in regard to iPads or iPhones is self-discoverable. I’ve been using an iPhone for 8 years or so, and I still find myself heading to Google to figure out stuff every now and then. It’s not that documentation isn’t necessary, it’s just that Apple has essentially crowdsourced it.

[silverhead]

Also, you're talking about the transition from traditional  analog equipment to digital modeling. Yes - that transition takes time and effort no matter what digital modeller you try first. Actually Helix has about the best and most intuitive user interface among its competitors. You would be making a much longer rant if you had started with one of them. 

 

Switching from using the old old analog black telephone wired to the wall to using an iPhone required a manual too. Who had ever heard of a phone that could take pictures? How do I do that, and where are my pictures? Who has ever heard of a guitar amp that's not actually an amp at all, but dozens of amps, along with a hundred pedals and the ability to switch out mics and cabs and adjust the bias? What the hell is bias anyways?

 

P.S. I'm not saying your rant is without reason. It's certainly true that moving from analog to digital guitar gear requires a significant learning curve and is not an instant hit. I'm just suggesting that it's not Helix itself that's the cause of your frustration; any other modeler would probably leave you feeling worse. Line 6 has actually made great improvements in the Helix user interface compared to its predecessors even as recently as POD HD.

 

[codamedia]

Your rant reminds me of my father holding a multi function remote control :) 

 

The helix interface is DEEP, not difficult. In order to access the thousands of options everything needs to be multi function.

• Read the cheat sheet
• Learn the shortcuts
• Do yourself a favor and download HX Edit. That will give you a larger visual of what is going on. 

Familiarity is the key... LOGIC is Apple, iPhone is Apple, iPad is Apple. All of your examples are Apple! I take it you are familiar with Apple.

Helix is not Apple... so there are some things you need to get familiar with. Once you do, ALL Line 6 products will make sense. 

 

7 hours ago, gopjoj said:

Various buttons change functions often, and, no, hitting "home" doesn't always return you...well, home.

 

What Helix model do you own? The FLOOR should always return home to the signal flow page. The LT's home button also returns instantly to the Signal Flow page... but the LT also has performance mode button to display the "Presets/Snaps/Stomps" since it doesn't have scribble strips to show those. 

 

If you have an LT, don't confuse what is actually considered "home". 

 

7 hours ago, gopjoj said:

What would be really useful would be some step-by-step videos.

 

There is no shortage of videos on you tube... head there and search for "An Idiots Guide to Line 6 Helix"... it's a decent little primer series for the product.

Once you get past the basic knowledge look up "Jason Sadites helix" to dig deeper. 

 

Be prepared to spend some time on this thing... it's worth it.

[cruisinon2]

5 hours ago, gopjoj said:

What would be really useful would be some step-by-step videos. 

 

YouTube. Can't swing a dead cat on that site without hitting a Helix tutorial video. Jason Sadites' channel is one of the better ones. Pete Thorn has a couple of good ones, too.

 

5 hours ago, gopjoj said:

I know I need to spend time with this unit, but that's kinda the point - I really don't want to.

 

I don't want to go to work every day... but here I am. 

 

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

- Dennis Leary ;)

 

But seriously, you are correct...there is indeed a learning curve. Calculus doesn't make much sense the first time around either, but eventually you learn the language. On the bright side, you only have to do it once. And compared to other modelers out there, the UI is drop-dead simple... you're just unfamiliar with it. But that won't last forever unless you're determined to hate it from the start. It's just a signal chain... same as your analog pedalboard. If you're used to an amp with an FX loop,  start by arranging everything in the same order you would a bunch of individual pedals, either before the front end of the amp, or in the loop, wherever each individual effect would work best. Dirt boxes, compressors, wahs, etc. in front, and time based stuff like reverbs, delays at the end. Unfortunately, there's no shortcut around the experimental phase.

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

All I can add to this is...I'm SOOOOOO impressed that you actually took the time to read the manual!!!!  That would save a TON of redundant questions we keep getting in here if only a fraction of the new users would follow your lead!!!!

 

I can't say I had any particular good or bad feelings about the manual, although I will say I find it far more useful as a reference guide than as a beginner's tutorial.  I think in some ways Line 6 may have a predilection toward thinking it's user base will be familiar with modeling because that's really all they do.  What may be different now because of the Helix and the general state of modeling is that you have many more users that are completely un-initiated in the concepts of modeling, and I can understand how that can be confusing.

Although the user interface does somewhat duplicate the visual aspect of a traditional pedalboard and amp arrangement, I would encourage you thing a bit outside of the box and do some investigation of the concepts of signal chains as applied both in the recording studio as well as in live performances, because that's where all of this modeling stuff really comes to life and can add extraordinary value to your efforts.  For example, the general idea is that a compressor pedal tends to be one of the first pedals on a pedalboard before going to an amp.  But that's really not true when it comes to recording studios or even live performance setups through a mixing board and PA.  Likewise are the concepts that separate an amp from the cabinet it uses and the cabinet from the microphones used on the cabinet and how those mics are placed on the cabinet which have significant implications in your final tone and sound.  Those, as well as mixing effects in parallel paths really don't have much of a parallel in the traditional floorboard and amp world, but bring a world of unique and useful capabilities to the Helix for both recording and very professional live sound.

[gunpointmetal]

Yeah, its a big difference coming from pedals, but there's nothing wrong with the interface. As far as multi-FX go its about the best out there (that can do what it can do, anyways, I'm sure some of those little Zoom units are easier just because they can't do half of what Helix does), but at least you're willing to look at the manual. There are so many functions available that if you're not sure, its easy to get lost. I do think the iPhone comparison is a little silly, since an iPhone/iPad really only does a few things, but one of those things is loading apps that someone else has made to carry out other tasks. The manual and YouTube should get to you to figure out anything that just messing around doesn't. 

You have to put a looper block into a preset to get the Looper button, there's no universal looper that's always on. 

[Kilrahi]

I definitely agree that Line 6 could do better (though they have been getting better, so that's good). However, you can work to make a complex concept to be presented as simply as POSSIBLE, but is it REALLY possible to make powerful equipment something that can be learned in one hour, one day, or even one year?

 

I personally think that's a hard no, but if a company ever figures out how to do it they'll probably be rolling in it.

 

I can explain how to play a guitar pretty quickly.  There are only twelve possible tonal notes in music - and the guitar has those 12 notes arranged all over the fret board with various repeats. Press at the fretted parts to select notes and pluck the fretted strings just above the bridge for sound.

 

There. Done. Gonna take more than a week though to actually do it.

 

Anyway, keep at it.  it really IS worth it.

[Simon268]

My everlasting nemesis is trying to (re)assign controls.

I NEVER succeed with less than 4 tries - even with browsing through the manual.

 

And i am really used to handling digital equipment (different sound and lighting consoles, dsp controllers, various multi effect devices, ....).

But the logic, when to hit, turn, touch, ... which button or switch and what to select (in the flow diagram) and where to position in the menus,  .... remains to be hidden to me.

Our grandMA Ultralight  is easy compared to that part of the Helix ....

 

IF (!!!) there wouldn't be the HX Edit - which is the absolute game changer. That software speaks for itself.

 

Also: The 'live editing' concept of the block parameters (with the small turn buttons under the screen) is really good end effective.

 

Compared the the tcelectronics g system i owned beforehand, managing

- the block parameters is a 'walk in the park' and

- managing the controls is a 'bad day in Bosnia'.

 ;-)

Because of that i usually tune in my sound with the physical interface (much faster then fiddeling with mouse and keyboard) and assign the controls via HX Edit.

 

 

And at the bottom line: The Helix is still an excellent device (for my purposes)  .... with some smaller road bumps.

 

 

[gopjoj]

Thanks. 

 

To clarify, I'm saying it makes me feel stupid. I do think the interface and instructions could be better. I don't mean to say the device is poor. It seems to have a lot of potential. 

 

Here's an example of the frustration. Having followed the instructions yesterday, I couldn't get it to work after an hour. If I plug in a traditional looper pedal, it works immediately. That's the difference. One "interface" is simple, this one is not. 

 

Okay,  this is a more powerful tool. I accept this. I need to read and learn. So, I reach for the manual. Following the instructions, it doesn't work. Not all the possible conditions and states are accounted for, so if it doesn't respond as expected, it's difficult to troubleshoot. I gave up on the manual, and turned to this video:

 

http://www.spencerbruce.com/brucies-q-a-10-using-the-line-6-helix-looper/

 

It's curious that someone else sent in the exact same question, indicating I'm not the only one. 

 

Okay, so....

 

First step: push joystick control in

Result: nothing happens

Restart Helix. Push joystick control in. Works this time. 

Scroll down. There is no looper block. The list stops at send/return

Okay, perhaps I'm in the wrong place. Hmmm. 

Select a different preset. 

Repeat. 

Still no looper showing

Okay, watch video again. Ah, I see he pushed in to add a block. 

Silly me. Need to watch carefully. 

Now I can see looper in the scroll list. A victory, of sorts.

Select, select mono, then looper, push down. 

Hmmm..mine looks "greyed out"

Why is mine greyed out?

Repeat process.

Hmm....

Still looks greyed out. What did I miss?

Anyways...

Push button D 

Nothing happens

Expected that...

.....

.....

Go get beer. 

Feel stupid. 

Play acoustic

 

Now, I'm sure someone will point out my error. And I will be grateful. But my point is if that I have to ask someone and can't find the answer easily myself, then the design and instructions could be better. Surely. Or I guess I could just...be smarter. 

 

Thanks for your help. I've read all your replies and will work through your helpful advice. In particular, thanks Dunedin Dragon. I think you hit the nail on the head in that the manual makes assumptions about familiarity. It would be good to have a guide for people who are switching from traditional setups. I'm also sure the interface could be made better if the states it were in were made more transparent, or reworked so that it traps errors and prompts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[codamedia]

9 hours ago, gopjoj said:

It would be good to have a guide for people who are switching from traditional setups.

 

Are you aware of the Line 6 Knowledge Base? It's in the menu at the upper left of this very page. 

"knowledge base" > "effects/controllers" > "helix"

 

Here is a direct link to that page....

https://line6.com/support/page/kb/effects-controllers/helix/

 

Check out "Helix tutorial videos" for some basic knowledge or "Helix Tutorials by Jason Sadites" for more advanced knowledge. Don't stop there... as there should be other pages of interest as well. 

 

IMO... This is an extremely useful video (shortcuts). If you can understand these, it makes using the Helix faster, easier and more fun. 

 

 

[Kilrahi]

8 hours ago, gopjoj said:

 

.....

Go get beer. 

Feel stupid. 

Play acoustic

 

Now, I'm sure someone will point out my error. And I will be grateful. But my point is if that I have to ask someone and can't find the answer easily myself, then the design and instructions could be better. Surely. Or I guess I could just...be smarter. 

 

 

 

I sympathize with the feeling - I really do. I've been there many times. Especially when it comes to guitar where I've seen people grasp things in seemingly minutes that took me a few years to perfect with constant practice.

 

Still though, I have to stress, none of this means you're stupid. The documentation COULD be better . . . but this device is meant to take all of human history's electric guitar gear (granted that's only a few decades worth, but saying it the other way has a grander feeling - sometimes spin is good) and jam it into a stomp board that can do it all. When you think about what it's REALLY trying to do, that's a lot to take in. I remember years ago just learning one amp was a journey, now you have just about every device conceivable, y splits, a/b branching - fx loops, snapshots - it's nucking futs and it takes a while to learn it.

 

This forum is great for people helping to get there. Many times I've relied on it to learn stuff that is now second nature.  It'll come! 

[phil_m]

8 hours ago, gopjoj said:

Thanks. 

 

To clarify, I'm saying it makes me feel stupid. I do think the interface and instructions could be better. I don't mean to say the device is poor. It seems to have a lot of potential. 

 

Here's an example of the frustration. Having followed the instructions yesterday, I couldn't get it to work after an hour. If I plug in a traditional looper pedal, it works immediately. That's the difference. One "interface" is simple, this one is not. 

 

Okay,  this is a more powerful tool. I accept this. I need to read and learn. So, I reach for the manual. Following the instructions, it doesn't work. Not all the possible conditions and states are accounted for, so if it doesn't respond as expected, it's difficult to troubleshoot. I gave up on the manual, and turned to this video:

 

http://www.spencerbruce.com/brucies-q-a-10-using-the-line-6-helix-looper/

 

It's curious that someone else sent in the exact same question, indicating I'm not the only one. 

 

Okay, so....

 

First step: push joystick control in

Result: nothing happens

Restart Helix. Push joystick control in. Works this time. 

Scroll down. There is no looper block. The list stops at send/return

Okay, perhaps I'm in the wrong place. Hmmm. 

Select a different preset. 

Repeat. 

Still no looper showing

Okay, watch video again. Ah, I see he pushed in to add a block. 

Silly me. Need to watch carefully. 

Now I can see looper in the scroll list. A victory, of sorts.

Select, select mono, then looper, push down. 

Hmmm..mine looks "greyed out"

Why is mine greyed out?

Repeat process.

Hmm....

Still looks greyed out. What did I miss?

Anyways...

Push button D 

Nothing happens

Expected that...

.....

.....

Go get beer. 

Feel stupid. 

Play acoustic

 

Now, I'm sure someone will point out my error. And I will be grateful. But my point is if that I have to ask someone and can't find the answer easily myself, then the design and instructions could be better. Surely. Or I guess I could just...be smarter. 

 

Thanks for your help. I've read all your replies and will work through your helpful advice. In particular, thanks Dunedin Dragon. I think you hit the nail on the head in that the manual makes assumptions about familiarity. It would be good to have a guide for people who are switching from traditional setups. I'm also sure the interface could be made better if the states it were in were made more transparent, or reworked so that it traps errors and prompts. 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand why the Looper wouldn't show up in the menu list. As far as it being greyed out, though, there are two reasons things are greyed out in menus. The first is there aren't enough DSP resources left on the processor path you're trying to put it on. Given that this is a Looper and it doesn't use much DSP, that seems somewhat unlikely, but it isn't outside the realm of possibilities. The other reason is there are limits to certain blocks. You can't have more than two cabs on one processor path, for instance. And you can't have more than one Looper block in a preset. So perhaps it's possible there was a Looper block in the preset you were trying to add one to and you just didn't see it.

 

Anyway, some of the stuff you're explaining sounds like behavior that's out of the ordinary (pushing down on the rotary knob while on the signal flow page should always take you to the block menu, for instance).