FRFR and choice of amp cabinet

[medbad5150]

Curious but I have used FRFR for ages. I use QSC K12 as my amp speaker. I also use a variety of impulses from all brands, but my query is, which in your opinion is the best IR for a QSC through Helix? I see 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 and still wonder which you think sounds best. Reason is, I can’t tell much difference. I’m talking classic rock or 80’s metal, funk and clean. I’ve never found a thread on which IR is best suited. As I said, my FRFR is my amp speaker, not just monitor. Thanks for any help

[rd2rk]

WARNING! BEATING A DEAD HORSE CONTENT FOLLOWS!

 

No such thing as an objective "BEST" in a subjective realm.

If you can't tell much difference, then they are ALL the best!

The ONLY question is, do they sound GOOD to YOU?

 

ALSO - an amp speaker is NOT EVER FRFR. BUT - if you like the way it sounds with your IRs, then it's THE BEST!

 

“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

― Duke Ellington

[rd2rk]

OK, an attempt at a more helpful response:

 

ITRW, the difference between 112, 212 and 412 is the amount of air being pushed. Any tonal differences are the result of the interaction of the specific speakers in the specific cabinet, where you're standing in relation to the cabinet and the room in which it's being played through.

 

IMO/E, an IR is just another tone control. The real world interactions described above are STILL dependent on the speaker and cabinet through which it's being reproduced.

 

IOW - an IR is NOT a speaker cabinet, it is a VERY imperfect reproduction of one. It is a TONE CONTROL, nothing more, and NEVER actually sounds like the real thing.

 

Your QSC sounds like the IR through a QSC, my frfr112 sounds like the IR through an frfr112. In the same room, they'll sound different, because there's no such thing as FRFR.

 

To quote myself from my previous post:

 

ALSO - an amp speaker is NOT EVER FRFR. BUT - if you like the way it sounds with your IRs, then it's THE BEST!

 

“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

― Duke Ellington

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

The horse is still dead, but that's the best I can do.

[Schmalle]

The number of speakers in a cab is a very broad generalization that doesn't tell you much (if anything) of how it sounds miced/ captured in an IR. The dimensions and whether it's open back ( and how much) would tell you more. But then add mics with their characteristics, placement and mixing strategies to the equation.

 

I'd suggest to think like this: FRFR is supposed to be a neutral canvas. No distortion, flat response. Amps are designed in conjunction with certain cabs. IRs are supposed to emulate the frequency response of those cabs through a neutral system. Problem is there are many frequency responses, depending on where you listen. There are different approaches to choose one of those - another story.

 

Bottom line: Trust you ears, craft sounds that fit the musical context and of course:

 

“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

― Duke Ellington

[datacommando]

5 hours ago, medbad5150 said:

I’ve never found a thread on which IR is best suited.

“Reason is, I can’t tell much difference.”
 

If you want to make it sound like a torn 8” elliptical speaker, it will - if you want it to ring like a bell, it will.
 

Gotta go with the flow!

 

Bottom line: Trust you ears.

 

“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

― Duke Ellington

[SaschaFranck]

15 hours ago, medbad5150 said:

Reason is, I can’t tell much difference.

 

Uhm, seriously? For me, pretty often it's like playing a different amp.

 

<insert Ellington quote here>

[codamedia]

8 hours ago, SaschaFranck said:

For me, pretty often it's like playing a different amp.

 

That's also my experience with IR's or even the Stock cabs. Not surprisingly, it's also been my experience with real cabinets/speakers :)

I find a cabinet choice is just as effective (dramatic) as changing an amp model, sometimes ever more. 

 

On 10/12/2020 at 12:24 PM, medbad5150 said:

I also use a variety of impulses from all brands, but my query is, which in your opinion is the best IR for a QSC through Helix?

 

As everyone stated already..... there is no best, just preference.

 

Keep in mind that an IR is not just a cabinet or speaker. It's a combination of cabinet, speaker(s), mic choice, mic placement, mic combinations. Anything other than "close mic position" will include some level of room sound. Those mics are then plugged into MIC pre's that will have their own color, and some company's also process the IR's further (EQ, Filters) while others will not! 

 

How much do you really understand those IR's you are swapping in/out? 

 

[SaschaFranck]

8 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I find a cabinet choice is just as effective (dramatic) as changing an amp model, sometimes ever more. 

 

Pretty much so. Once you're in the ballpark regarding amp sounds (in terms of drive charakter and dynamics), the used cab/mic does a whole lot more to the overall sound than changing the amp in favour of something similar. In other words, the difference between, say, all the Marshall-esque amps will only be important once you're almost into hairsplitting mode already.

For me, once I made a choice regarding a basic amp character (and drive amount) all my noticeable tone shaping happens through pedals and cabs.

[cruisinon2]

This is a lot like asking "what's the best shoe size for my feet?".  The answer is "the one that fits". Nike's size 10 might be an Adidas 9.5. All you can do is try them on... and don't buy the ones that cut off the circulation to your toes, no matter how stylish they are. ;)

 

If you try 100 IR's, and find yourself gravitating back to the same 2 or 3, then those are the "best" ones for you, and nobody can tell you otherwise... there's no objective truth to be found here. End of story.