Dual Cabs Balance

[titchyblackcat]

Hi

Is there a rule of thumb way for setting the volume and delay of dual cabs for stereo.

Sometimes my perception is one side is louder than the other but then it seems to move at other times.

I'm toying with a 5 ms delay on the right hand cabinet at the moment

[PierM]

If you are too close to the two speakers, every inch and every degree of movement will make one of the two predominant. Pretty normal. Said that, as soon as L and R are on the same level, you are good. Also it's possible you are getting some phasing, while playing with delays.

 

Id rather use two slightly different mic position/angle, instead of introducing arbitrary delays between the speakers. Matter of personal taste tho.

 

 

[MusicLaw]

Before diving into the Cab Delay Parameter, set up your Cab Pan L and R accordingly. Then use any Reverb and Delay FX Blocks to taste. Then revisit the Cab Delay Parameter and listen carefully to very minimal changes. There's a reason that the values increment in 0.02ms at the very start of the Delay values parameter. Just a tiny bit can introduce all sorts of Phasing which may result in a variety of audible frequency cancelling depending on your material. If it sounds good, go with it! If you're working on material destined for Mastering, then you'll need to be more aware of introducing undesired phasing. Line 6 has already posted that the new Cabs are Time Aligned regardless of their respective Mic, Position, Distance, Angle, Pan and Level settings. However, as soon as the Cab's Delay Parameter is increased beyond 0.00ms, phasing issues begin. 

[titchyblackcat]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I'm doing this all wrong, I'm after a massive big stereo sound for recording.

Are there any idiots guides to this ? every one seems to know what they're doing apart from me.

[themetallikid]

You may not be the only one, lol, I recreated my presets and found a dual cab pairing I liked with a dual amp setup.  Ventoux/Placatar Dirty.  Really liked it, but wanted some more depth/3D-ness out of it.  I played with the delay parameter on the Placatar cab as that was providing my low end oomph in the sound.  I found that beyond 30ms it was too weird, but under 20 seemed to not quite give me a 'room-ish' sorta resonance.  So I settled on 25ms.   

 

What threw me for a loop is that when I hit a preset that had a lead and I added my lead stuff to the rhythm sound (OD - Pillars, and a delay between the amp/cab) it was pushed somewhere I didn't like.  

 

Are the new cab blocks linear?  I have listened to Jason Sadites talk about linear vs non-linear and I get it context to a compressor or a delay and how its input affects its output, where as some blocks are no different if you increase the input going into it.  Or is it just because I have the delay prior to the cab block that i'm getting a bigger than 25ms sound because the delays are now being time shifted as well?    Would shifting the delay post cab clean this up then?

 

 

[datacommando]

On 11/10/2022 at 3:20 PM, themetallikid said:

Are the new cab blocks linear?  
 

Or is it just because I have the delay prior to the cab block that i'm getting a bigger than 25ms sound because the delays are now being time shifted as well?   

 

Would shifting the delay post cab clean this up then?

 

According to the release notes -

• Delay (Dual only)—Although the new cabs in 3.50 perfectly line up with one another, there may be situations where you want to delay one side very slightly, to perhaps impart a bit of phase incoherence or at higher values, to increase the apparent stereo spread. A little goes a long way here

“Perfectly line up” sounds like linear to me.

 

As for - “Would shifting the delay post cab clean this up then?”

 

Do it, and see what happens - you’re not likely to damage anything.

 

[themetallikid]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:50 PM, datacommando said:

According to the release notes -

• Delay (Dual only)—Although the new cabs in 3.50 perfectly line up with one another, there may be situations where you want to delay one side very slightly, to perhaps impart a bit of phase incoherence or at higher values, to increase the apparent stereo spread. A little goes a long way here

“Perfectly line up” sounds like linear to me.

 

As for - “Would shifting the delay post cab clean this up then?”

 

Do it, and see what happens - you’re not likely to damage anything.

 

Oh for sure, and will, initially i just programmed a change attached to a button for my leads, but easy enough to undo or change as well

[datacommando]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:04 PM, themetallikid said:

but easy enough to undo or change as well

Always work on a copy.

 

[Schmalle]

On 11/10/2022 at 4:20 PM, themetallikid said:

Are the new cab blocks linear?

Yes. 100%.