jandrio Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 ...the Roland modeling gear does NOT convert to MIDI.... ...The Boss / Roland gear converts your guitar notes into MIDI data... i am confused. which one of these contradicting statemnts apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 i am confused. which one of these contradicting statemnts apply? It can do both. Most of the newer GK-pickup floor units have both a modeling feature and a midi/synth feature. It's not a contradiction. What is wrong is to say that either of those features are the same as one another. Just because the unit can do both doesn't mean those 2 things are the same things under the same roof. No one would take modeling guitars seriously if they were midi guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 can u pls give me a specific GK-pickup floor unit which does modeling , so i can read further info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akeron Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I get so tired of these ridiculous forum suicides. That's an old "tradition" of any kind of public forum and newsgroup. I can't count how many times I've already seen that over the years in various places, like programming newsgroups for example. I must do a song like "Drama queen" or "User error". It could be a hit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 can u pls give me a specific GK-pickup floor unit which does modeling , so i can read further info? GR-55 and the GP-10 I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 GR-55 and the GP-10 I think these r based on converting the 6 string signals in2 midi via the gk pu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricstudioc Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 these r based on converting the 6 string signals in2 midi via the gk pu? Let's try to clear this up regarding Roland tech - The signal (which after all is 6-channel audio) coming from the GK hits a GR55, let's say, and - - can be processed from the audio for modeling purposes, and/or... - can be converted via a proprietary Roland system into data to trigger their internal synth, and/or... - can be converted into MIDI data to send off-board to external gear. The last two are a parallel process, taking place at the same time. Perceptable latency increases as you move down the list. As noted above, the pickup is just a pickup - all of the above functions take place within the unit itself (or not - the original VG's didn't do the last two items at all.). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 tks ricstudioc, great info. so if i have, say a guitar solo written in midi, can i feed the gr55/gp10 with midi 'n use it's guitar (not amp, not internal synth, just pure guitar) modeling? this wld greatly speed up studio recording time/cost, provided the guitar sound produced is as good as JTV HD. with JTV u must physically play the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This topic is way too complicated, I'm selling my computer and not using the internet anymore. I'm going to buy Progresso and use a can and a string to communicate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillBee Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This topic is way too complicated, I'm selling my computer and not using the internet anymore. I'm going to buy Progresso and use a can and a string to communicate. The "string emulator" sounds fizzy to me. :) -B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 it seems that L6-ers r creative people... :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricstudioc Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 tks ricstudioc, great info. so if i have, say a guitar solo written in midi, can i feed the gr55/gp10 with midi 'n use it's guitar (not amp, not internal synth, just pure guitar) modeling? this wld greatly speed up studio recording time/cost, provided the guitar sound produced is as good as JTV HD. with JTV u must physically play the guitar. Sorry, no - again, these modeling techs work by directly modifying the incoming AUDIO, which MIDI does not provide. To get a modeled gtr OUT you'll have to put the sound of a gtr IN. So you're still stuck actually playing the thing.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazzy Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :D it is interesting and fun to observe how starting from a complaint about the complexity of a device, the discussion has evolved and has been transformed into a jubilation of the most intricate and possible solutions :D Was thinking the same thing. Whenever there's a thread created by someone desperate to give up, it takes a turn, Negative into Positive. I hear that song by Chumbawamba "I get knocked down, but I get up again, your never going to keep me down" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radatats Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Original line 6 monkey before lollipop got too complicated... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillBee Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Haa haaa! Good One Radatats! L6 Monkey V0.5 with a Variax prototype! That would make for a good caption contest. "Firmware? We don't need no stinkin' firmware!" -B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 My first impression of using the GR-55 with a GK pickup on my JTV59, and with a Roland GC-1 strat: Way Too Much Latency!!!! Specifically, latency when triggering the PCM samples. I can't imagine it will be feasible for me to run the JTV vdi to the HD500 while also sending the GK signal to the GR-55. Triggering the PCM is like a disconnect from the experience of playing the guitar. It becomes a "one or the other" type experience. I realize that with the non-PCM stuff- the COSM guitar and instrument modeling it does not have this latency issue, but I didn't get the GR-5 with those portions in mind - and if I was going to do without the the PCM, I would lean toward the newer GP-10. The latency on the sixth string is particularly bad (documented apparently), which is odd. I suppose you can adjust your playing technique, to compensate for the latency - but no way I am going to mess myself up trying to relearn how to play guitar to accommodate the limitations of the technology. To compare with a keyboard for example, if I load a drum kit on the Roland keyboard, there is no difference in trigger time on any of the keys of the piano. However - if you load a "drum kit" preset on the GR-55, the low-E string is the kick drum, the F# (2nd fret, 6th string) is the snare. I found it very difficult to properly trigger anything more timing wise complex than a "kick-snare-kick-snare". Trying to do "kick-kick-snare" fouled it up, like it couldn't react quickly enough to the same note being played twice. But it was certainly an eye opener! Or, in this case, "ear opener" Though, there are other factors, like the 13 pin cable. Something about the way that cable plugs into the guitar is not good. I expected that from the external GK3, but it also feels "flimsy" when connected to the GC-1 which has all that stuff built in. By comparison, the VDI cable I bought from BestTronics (and the Line6 brand VDI) is FAR more sturdy. I realize it may be an issue of playing technique, pickup installation, configuration, etc. But, it makes me really appreciate my Line6 gear. In the end, most likely, the Roland GR-55 will be going back to Zzounds. As for the GC-1, I'd like to try it with a GP-10, but the quality of the instrument is not awesome. It's not *bad*, but it doesn't hold water next to the Korean JTV59 or my USA strat. Especially next to my US strat, it's really lacking. The consensus at the moment, is that I am glad I got this stuff with a 45 day return policy, and using the 8 payment method, I am not out a ton of $$ while attempting to determine all these factors. Will definitely give it another solid attempt, two or three - but, the end result is making me *really* appreciate the Line6 gear I already have! Funny how that works.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 My first impression of using the GR-55 with a GK pickup on my JTV59, and with a Roland GC-1 strat: Way Too Much Latency!!!! Specifically, latency when triggering the PCM samples. I can't imagine it will be feasible for me to run the JTV vdi to the HD500 while also sending the GK signal to the GR-55. Triggering the PCM is like a disconnect from the experience of playing the guitar. It becomes a "one or the other" type experience. I realize that with the non-PCM stuff- the COSM guitar and instrument modeling it does not have this latency issue, but I didn't get the GR-5 with those portions in mind - and if I was going to do without the the PCM, I would lean toward the newer GP-10. The latency on the sixth string is particularly bad (documented apparently), which is odd. I suppose you can adjust your playing technique, to compensate for the latency - but no way I am going to mess myself up trying to relearn how to play guitar to accommodate the limitations of the technology. To compare with a keyboard for example, if I load a drum kit on the Roland keyboard, there is no difference in trigger time on any of the keys of the piano. However - if you load a "drum kit" preset on the GR-55, the low-E string is the kick drum, the F# (2nd fret, 6th string) is the snare. I found it very difficult to properly trigger anything more timing wise complex than a "kick-snare-kick-snare". Trying to do "kick-kick-snare" fouled it up, like it couldn't react quickly enough to the same note being played twice. But it was certainly an eye opener! Or, in this case, "ear opener" Though, there are other factors, like the 13 pin cable. Something about the way that cable plugs into the guitar is not good. I expected that from the external GK3, but it also feels "flimsy" when connected to the GC-1 which has all that stuff built in. By comparison, the VDI cable I bought from BestTronics (and the Line6 brand VDI) is FAR more sturdy. I realize it may be an issue of playing technique, pickup installation, configuration, etc. But, it makes me really appreciate my Line6 gear. In the end, most likely, the Roland GR-55 will be going back to Zzounds. As for the GC-1, I'd like to try it with a GP-10, but the quality of the instrument is not awesome. It's not *bad*, but it doesn't hold water next to the Korean JTV59 or my USA strat. Especially next to my US strat, it's really lacking. The consensus at the moment, is that I am glad I got this stuff with a 45 day return policy, and using the 8 payment method, I am not out a ton of $$ while attempting to determine all these factors. Will definitely give it another solid attempt, two or three - but, the end result is making me *really* appreciate the Line6 gear I already have! Funny how that works.... Because the guitar modeling is not tracking anything unless you're using pitch shifting . Tracking in MIDI/synth means it's reading the waveform to get the pitch to output the new sound as. Tracking in pitch shifting isn't tracking the pitch in particular, but tracking the characteristics and waveform so it can rebuild the pitched waveform without being warbly. Modeling does not require any tracking alone because it's a process that doesn't have to wait to get a portion of the waveform to read any information, it just applied a complex frequency filter, but it can do that in realtime. This is why the JTV will have no latency until you have alt tuning on or 12 strings on, because all pitch shifters have latency. As for the PCM vs other sounds on the Roland, I don't know why, and it's a bit inexcusable of them. It should go through the same pitch tracking routine as the basic synth sounds, so I don't get why it would be slower on spitting out a PCM. A PCM is a wave sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I had a bit different results "at volume" last night, playing with the three piece of our band - guitar, guitar, drums. Took a while to get the gear all setup, but I can say, the L2t's continue to impress. I ran them as just mains 1 and 2 off the M20d instead of as monitors, and with the L2t's at 1/2 volume, and the mixer dials set to 0, everything was loud and clear with a ton of headroom and not a peep of feedback. You could literally use an L2t or two as your main speakers at a smaller / medium gig; they held up with all the drums and the guitars pumped through at full mix volume. Since the kick drum sounds that huge through the smallest of the StageSource speakers, I can imagine it must be thunderous with the L3 subs and mains.. I just used the stock M20d presets for snare, kick, and hi-hat (one overhead mic). Put a Shure Beta 57 on the guitar amp, on axis; next time will likely add a second mic to his guitar amp, off axis, maybe a different mic for the second cab mic. I had my main guitar sound being VDI-JTV59-HD500-L6link-DT25->DI-XLR to the mixer. Had also previously run both XLR from the HD500 to the mixer, so left those in place, though once the DT25 was in combo/poweramp mode, it likely wasn't the best signal quality. (M20d, I just record all the inputs rather than the main mix, then mix it together in ProTools). And then I had the 13-pin cable from the external GK pickup to the GR-55, stereo 1/4" to the mixer. If I stick with this rig, I would likely get the GR-55 off the floor; and I would need to cable tie the VDI and the Roland cables together on either end; it's a weird feeling have two or three cables hanging off a guitar! Anyway...it was pretty awesome. Way beyond my ability to really control what I was doing, in terms of the GR-55 patches but I wasn't having major issues with it sounding out of synch or suffering from latency in a way that compromised playability. I would play my guitar parts with the HD500-DT25 as the main tone, and then using the GK control on the guitar, changes patches and adjust volume up, down, off. It's cool to roll it all the way off to bring it way down; or bring the DT25 way down and just use the GR-55, or go full hog and turn them both on most or all the way up. It would appear, that with some proper time spent dialing in some patches, and possibly by triggering the GR-55 patch changes via MIDI from the HD500, it could be quite an interesting compliment to the Line6 gear. I will need to listen to what I got for recordings; mostly for that alignment issue, but also to see what the GR-55 tones sound like alongside the JTV/HD500 stuff. I will also need to do a more specific test of the PCM vs the modeled stuff on the GR-55; but in general, I am not rushing to return the gear just yet. Need to give it a proper test with some user created patches on the GR-55, and see what happens. On a side note, my M13 wouldn't even power on, not sure what's going on there, hoping it's just needing a new AC power supply or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radatats Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 hahahahahaha... the OP started this thread because supposedly the POD is too complicated to dial in. How ironic that the thread has morphed into a discussion about what is quite possible the most complicated, convoluted rig ever put together... keep pushing the limits there Colonel... :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 hahahahahaha... the OP started this thread because supposedly the POD is too complicated to dial in. How ironic that the thread has morphed into a discussion about what is quite possible the most complicated, convoluted rig ever put together... keep pushing the limits there Colonel... :) I did leave the monster Keeley pedalboard out of the equation! ;) Actually, my buddy playing the other guitar is using that ensemble - and it sounds pretty freaking awesome. As yet another aside to the OP, the ISP noise gate pedal is a real standout, quite a nice piece. You take that stuff for granted using noise gates on the POD gear, but with analog pedals, this thing does the trick. It "tracks" the dry input from the guitar, to know when you are actually playing; so if it hears noise in the actual noise gate stage, but nothing coming from the guitar it knows to gate out the sound. Can totally mess you up if you are using a looper however, but in this case, it works like a charm. Cuts the noise without chopping off sustain of notes as they decay. Incidentally, while I dig the over the top sonic mayhem of the L6+Roland, for the cost of what I will end up spending in the 8 payments for the Roland GC-1 + GR-55, I realized I could basically get a pair of L3m's, which might be what I end up doing.. Getting the electric band back together makes me realize how crucial main amplification is,and all the cool gear in the world won't do me a bit of good if I can't pull off a main mix to the audience! So, for Zzounds it's a win-win, they still get my money. Sorry Roland!! I like my Line6 more, maybe next time. COSM, I remain just 'eh' about. Four years into my HD500, and the amp models still sound amazing. The irony just occured to me that I've gone off the deep end on a post from a person saying goodbye to Line6 in favor of Roland / Boss; when I did just the opposite. "You say goodbye, and I say Hello! I don't know why you say goodbye, I say Hello!" :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearitupbaby Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 i still use my vg-99( and have the vg-8ex) they are a different beast altogether...the synth type sounds and nylon string/acoustic guitars are really convincing and the effects in the vg99 are very cool...i also use the pod hd500 and dt25 and love the tones..the dt25 alone is sweet as well...and i use a l6 spidervalve mk2 2-12 that is an amazing amp as well....the editors are really wonderful from line 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 hahahahahaha... the OP started this thread because supposedly the POD is too complicated to dial in. How ironic that the thread has morphed into a discussion about what is quite possible the most complicated, convoluted rig ever put together... keep pushing the limits there Colonel... :) Quick update - I just shipped the Roland GR-55 and GC-1 back to zZounds yesterday. And, in a total opposite of the OP, I am firmly 100% sticking with my Line6 gear! I bought a replacement power supply for my M13, and that is now back in the FX loop of the HD500. Sounds awesome through the DT25! What's cool about using the M13 in the FX loop of the HD500, is that it's position can be moved on a per-patch basis. So you can have it in the post amp model section for delays, chorus, reverbs, etc, or you can put in the front of the signal chain, or right before the amp model, etc. Very excellent and versatile expansion of the HD500 FX models. Same stuff, just more of it! A bit of a tap dance routine, but it really sounds great. And you get delay trails, even when turning off the FX loop. Using an FS on the HD500 to switch the FX loop on/off is also really cool. You can pre-tap the tap tempo, and queue up multiple fx to be on, then hit them all on or off with a single footswitch. Being able to run two different tap tempos is also cool. Stuck on the plexi amp model, loving it. Here's my take on the Roland stuff: way fun. but not for me. too much adjustment to make in playing style and technique, and it was making a mess of things, trying to overlap guitar tones from the Line6 side with essentially 'keyboard' sounds from the Roland PCM / synth, etc. Still have my eye on the Boss GP-10, but no time soon. I need to save up some $$ to get a couple of L3m's and another L2! :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay-man Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Quick update - I just shipped the Roland GR-55 and GC-1 back to zZounds yesterday. And, in a total opposite of the OP, I am firmly 100% sticking with my Line6 gear! I bought a replacement power supply for my M13, and that is now back in the FX loop of the HD500. Sounds awesome through the DT25! What's cool about using the M13 in the FX loop of the HD500, is that it's position can be moved on a per-patch basis. So you can have it in the post amp model section for delays, chorus, reverbs, etc, or you can put in the front of the signal chain, or right before the amp model, etc. Very excellent and versatile expansion of the HD500 FX models. Same stuff, just more of it! A bit of a tap dance routine, but it really sounds great. And you get delay trails, even when turning off the FX loop. Using an FS on the HD500 to switch the FX loop on/off is also really cool. You can pre-tap the tap tempo, and queue up multiple fx to be on, then hit them all on or off with a single footswitch. Being able to run two different tap tempos is also cool. Stuck on the plexi amp model, loving it. Here's my take on the Roland stuff: way fun. but not for me. too much adjustment to make in playing style and technique, and it was making a mess of things, trying to overlap guitar tones from the Line6 side with essentially 'keyboard' sounds from the Roland PCM / synth, etc. Still have my eye on the Boss GP-10, but no time soon. I need to save up some $$ to get a couple of L3m's and another L2! :) Good. Personally I would get a Roland GR-55 if I had money to throw around, but probably not a Roland MFX. Their effects and features are good but the amp modeling is just meh for me. I love my POD, I was genuinely upset about the possibility of losing mine, luckily it's working again for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Good. Personally I would get a Roland GR-55 if I had money to throw around, but probably not a Roland MFX. Their effects and features are good but the amp modeling is just meh for me. I love my POD, I was genuinely upset about the possibility of losing mine, luckily it's working again for now. Yeah, was a big difference for rehearsal. Really came down to playing technique though; the GK pickup and the PCM midi stuff requires a certain approach to the guitar, how to pick, how to fret, where your palm rests, all kinds of things you don't think about. It also takes the quality of the actual guitar *tone* out of the equation. It really just becomes a grid of notes that trigger pre-recorded sounds; you cannot edit the sounds, you can't adjust trails or sustain. When the note triggering the sample decays enough, the sample just ends. It was a weird disconnect from the playing of the instrument, and quite frankly it made me miss the simplicity of what it felt like to play guitar. Quite subtle, but crucial. I think the non-PCM stuff might be a different experience; but, it didn't make me feel like the JTV was in any way lacking, in fact, it made me appreciate it that much more! Funny how that works. I will reiterate; the M13 is an AWESOME add-on to the JTV-HD500-DT25 rig. Very excellent!!! Thus far, the best sound for what I want to do, in terms of amplifying the HD500, is with the DT25 - and- running the XLR di out from the DT25 into the M20d mixer, and monitored through a pair of L2ts' with the rest of the band mix. The DT25 just cuts through, with ease. I don't spend a ton of time trying to endlessly tweak EQ or gain or anything else to get the guitar to sit right in the mix - which I always had issues with when I was using the HD500 in studio/direct mode, while also trying to play with the full band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radatats Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I've been experimenting too and that has brought me full circle back to the DT25 also. I just don't get the same reward from the PA. I am considering adding a M5 in the loop but not an M13... too big for me. Have you tried connecting the M13 midi to the POD? I know with the M5 it will save the settings with the patch, not sure about the M13 but that would be cool... I would also consider a Logidy Epsi IR loader but not until they add midi capability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewolf48 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What about an HD300 in the FX - loop? Cheaper than M13 or even M9 and will give you Amp model as well for double amp without DSP Limit, Or an HD400 can give you 4CM between the units for both pre and post effects! Or HDPro via SPDIF for minimum AD/DA conversions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is there any noticeable latency with the HD500 FX loop ? I was just wondering since it has to do a DA then AD conversion on top of the normal AD to DA conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 neither one of those options has midi.... if you connect the M pedals via midi the settings will recall with the patch... with the 300/400 idea you end up with alot of tap dancing. What about an HD300 in the FX - loop? Cheaper than M13 or even M9 and will give you Amp model as well for double amp without DSP Limit, Or an HD400 can give you 4CM between the units for both pre and post effects! Or HDPro via SPDIF for minimum AD/DA conversions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 In the end it comes down to which style of tool you prefer to get your job done. Ever notice how many different styles of hammer you can buy? I play classic rock from the 60s and 70s. My current gigging system is the JTV-59 -> POD500 -> L2m and I also run a guitar with the roland GK-2A into a GR-33 guitar synth for some strings and horns on a few songs. I have to say that without this forum my tones would not be as good as they are now. A POD is more difficult to use that a simple amp, but the results for me are well worth the effort. I have been so Impressed with the L2m speaker, that I am saving pennies to convert my little P.A. over to all Line 6 powered speakers. -Max 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewolf48 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Technically... the HD300 and HD400 do have MIDI; but it is only MIDI over USB so you would need an intermediate device to convert. I did skim the manual, saw the MIDI section and thought I had the details covered, but I will concede that unless you also add a device like this http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml (or a laptop) then it is more trouble than it is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I briefly considered the MIDI route, and then just decided to let that sleeping dog stay there! I have been overcomplicating things for myself for so long, I decided to keep it "simple" (it's all relative!) Don't notice any particular latency using the FX loop. I like it in the loop at stomp box setting, I think? You can set the loop to stomp level or line level. I just treat the M13 like a big pedalboard. Haven't used the FX loop in the pre-amp slot as much, I mostly use it for delays, reverbs, chorus, and auto-wah. I find the chorus and autowah a bit intense in the post position, but the DT25 handles it all quite well, and repackages the sound nicely. I was running it in stereo through the loop, but might try it in mono, since I am just using the one DT25. I could see the M9 being a nice compromise; smaller footprint, don't need an entire extra pedalboard case! I have the M13 in a case by Diago, and the it fits perfectly side by side with a TC Helicon Voice Live 3. It's snug, but perfect fit, and the lid lip is low enough to allow the cables to fit fine into the backs of the two units. I need to sort out how to arrange the stuff in stage format; I was basically spreading the two boards with the mic stand in the center. I haven't sorted out whether I prefer the M13 to the left or to the right of the HD500, and the left/right position of the VL3 next to the M13. It is definitely a tap dance sitiuation, but I program FS4 on the HD500 to switch the FX loop on/off. So that's my "Oh, Lollipop" kill switch, in case I get weirdness from the M13. I also use it like a "hit" switch, within a single patch - so I can trigger up to the four M13 FX in one switch without the switching of the amp model. I am setting up the HD500 with the four FS switches and the four patch change switches. Typically configure any given four patches on a bank to be variations of a theme. Maybe increase the amp drive settings across the four, stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I have been so Impressed with the L2m speaker, that I am saving pennies to convert my little P.A. over to all Line 6 powered speakers. Yeah, same here. That's part of why I sent back the Roland stuff within the 45 days; I looked at the total $$ I would spend across 8 months of payments, and it was a good bit more than the cost of an L3m. I have been using the pair of L2t's as monitors and as main stereo mix with the M20d, and they are amazingly loud and rockin'. I figure if I would be better off adding some more pieces to that PA, so my band can pull off live shows without borrowing the speakers and power amp we use now! Our stage rig is the M20d + L2t's for main mix and stage monitors; I run the XLR main outs to a power amp and send that to pair of JBL 1x15's. Solid, works fine, but I'd like to do the full-StageSource rig, and add the L3m's for the two mains. We can keep the JBL rig going if we need extra sound; though I can imagine a pair of L3m's is pretty loud on their own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Cheaper than M13 I found a guy selling a used M13 on craigslist; paid $400 for a package deal: the M13, a huge Gator pedalboard with soft case, an Ernie Ball Jr volume pedal, and a Line6 Relay G-50 wireless unit.. It's been a great bargain for my band; I use the M13, and my buddy uses the rest of the stuff I got with it. I assembled a killer mostly-Keeley analog pedalboard for my buddy in my band to use; he plays a Gibson SG with a Fender tweed 1x12 40watt, so the wireless and analog pedalboard has been perfect for him to use. He's got other pedals, but this Keeley board just sounds too good. I even put his wah into a Keeley true bypass FX loop pedal. Works great; powered with a Voodoo Labs Mondo 12x power supply. Signal chain: guitar>wireless>noise gate stage 1 (tracking only)>tuner>fx loop pedal>wah>auto wah>germanium drive pedal>4 knob comp>overdrive #2>to amp front input. amp fx loop send>noise gate stage 2( noise gate)>chorus>phaser>delay> amp fx return. All that cabling and power wiring makes me appreciate how easy it is to move FX around with the HD500 and the M13!! Putting together a pedalboard like that makes me *really* appreciate my Line6 gear. It's a bargain by comparison! I spent $160 on just the George L patch cable kits, and at least $1,000 on the Keeley gear. Factor in the pedalboard, velcro, wireless unit - it all adds up really quickly. But the sounds we're getting are awesome!! I use two mics on his guitar amp, (Shure Beta 57 and an Audix i5) and run my DT25 direct. Certainly a good exercise to get a greater appreciation for what it takes to get good tone without a bunch of noise; even with the noise gate there is some dirty nasty sound that just happens.; some hum, some buzz, all that junk. Keeley is great stuff, all that power supply and cabling helps, but it's nearly impossible to set up a pedalboard like that without some kind of extra noise, which can vary from stage to stage, based on the incoming power, all kinds of factors. In general, even with the thing cranked, my DT25 is relatively noise free. Pedalboard gear list: (new / list prices) (2) packs of George L's ($80 each) $160 Gator GPT-PRO pedalboard w/ soft case $120 Line 6 G50 Relay wireless $350 Voodoo Labs Mondo power supply $300 ISP Decimator G-string II noise gate $226 Cry Baby wah $80 Planet Waves tuner $80 Keeley FX Loop $85 Keeley Neutrino autowah $210 Keeley Bootlegger germanium drive $200 Keeley 4-Knob compressor $260 Keeley 'Drive for Cure' overdrive $170 Keeley Seafoam chorus $230 Keeley Phaser $250 MXR delay $150 So yeah; figure spending $500 on an HD500x + $1000 on a DT25, and $1500 on a JTV59 = $3,000 Or, that pedalboard, for $2,871. Then you still need to get an amp and a guitar! Line6 is really a killer value, great sound, and a ton of fun. That's my take away on it, after my analog pedalboard quest, and more recently my brief foray into the Roland world, I can say I can really appreciate the Line6 stuff, even with it's nuances, quirks and oddities. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 midi with the M pedals + HD pods is super simple... no setup or anything... just cable it up... and make your changes... save your tone... next time you select the tone it will recall your settings. just sort of turns the M into a slave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 midi with the M pedals + HD pods is super simple... no setup or anything... just cable it up... and make your changes... save your tone... next time you select the tone it will recall your settings. just sort of turns the M into a slave. Hmmm... Will give that a try! That's a great idea, especially as the FX settings on the M13 become an extension of the patch programming of the HD500. I could use it to recall "pre" amp model scenes on the M13 vs "post" amp model scenes without the extra tap dance. Ok, I will give it a try! Thanks for that tip, very cool. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 remember the HD500 loop is stereo too... best to use a TRS/Insert cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 ...So yeah; figure spending $500 on an HD500x + $1000 on a DT25, and $1500 on a JTV59 = $3,000... u can further save the 1K (on a DT25) if u connect direct 2 pa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 u can further save the 1K (on a DT25) if u connect direct 2 pa... I have tried that option, extensively, in many different variations, and I just have a problem hearing myself properly coming from floor monitors vs with a more standard amp on a stand behind me.. I do have some nasty hearing loss in one ear from ear infection when I was a few years old, that definitely doesn't help. But - and this is just me, your suggestion is definitely a good one, and for many many people, that is exactly how they run the HD500 - I prefer the sound of the amp with no mic modeling as my primary signal. When it's studio/direct, there are definitely more options overall, with which mic model and the corresponding settings, but I just gravitate towards that 'combo/poweramp' mode. Plus, I think that while the amp models are excellent in studio/direct mode, there is a special kind of magic that occurs when the Bogner power amp in the DT merges with the Line6 pre-amp models. I also really like the DI out from the DT vs the XLR out from the HD500. It sits really well in the mix with the other guitarist, who we run a Shure Beta 57 on his Fender Tweed tube amp, his rig is all analog pedals. I think that the transformer tapped DI XLR out from the DT adds some warmth and packages the sound up quite well for use on a live stage. I did use my HD500 for four years with other amps and various assorted options. One good solution, if you like to run the XLR from the POD in studio direct, but need a good power amp option, is a keyboard amp. You can get one of those for not a ton of money, and it will definitely do a good job of rendering the full studio/direct power of the POD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I should amend my total, since the JTV's are dropping in price! JTV for $850 right now with the rebate.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 remember the HD500 loop is stereo too... best to use a TRS/Insert cable I think I have been doing that, even though I am running in mono. Gotta get that second DT25 eventually! I use a cable that goes from the single HD500 send and it splits into two mono L/R cables, then a standard connected L/R stereo 1/4" to 1/4" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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