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Hd500x Dsp Limit


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#1 mralmostpopular

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:19 PM

Ok guys,

 

There is a discussion going on over at thegearpage.net about the new DSP on the HD500X. I don't have an HD500 available at the moment to test the difference, but I posted some of my results in testing the DSP limit on the new unit, and some users are reporting that it isn't much different than what was occuring on the older units. I've included a screen-shot, which shows the DSP limit being reached if I try to add more than what is already there. Maybe some of the other HD500X users could try to re-create the patch (Blackface 'Lux Nrm and Tweed B-man Brt), and see if they're hitting the DSP limit in the same spot. Some HD500 guys could try it too. I'm curious to see if this is a problem across the board with the 500Xs or if perhaps some bad units went out. If we're hitting the DSP in the same place as the older units, as is being reported, that is a problem.

 

Thanks guys.

 

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#2 elringblade

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

I own a HD500 and when I found your post i wanted to try to reproduce the same problem to see what would happen.

Setted amps as you said and then inserted stomps, I didn't care about order, and had the same "DSP LIMIT REACHED" message while adding the Volume pedal so, apparently, my HD500 has a little bit less CPU power then the new HD500X, this means I will probably not buy the new one and keep my old one. B)


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#3 talwilkins

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:30 PM

I tried with the HD500. I couldn't get the reverb in, which uses quite a lot op DSP.

So, it seems the HD500X does indeed have more headroom in that department.

Where did you see those reports?

I just bought my HD500 three weeks ago so I went back to the shop and told them L6 just introduced an upgraded version.

I'm getting my money back and will buy the HD500X.

Are the switches really better as far as you can see?


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#4 mralmostpopular

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

I tried with the HD500. I couldn't get the reverb in, which uses quite a lot op DSP.

So, it seems the HD500X does indeed have more headroom in that department.

Where did you see those reports?

I just bought my HD500 three weeks ago so I went back to the shop and told them L6 just introduced an upgraded version.

I'm getting my money back and will buy the HD500X.

Are the switches really better as far as you can see?

 

The switches definitely feel like an upgrade from the HD500. The new switches feel like what you'd find on a standard boutique pedal, whereas the old ones felt a bit light/springy. I didn't have a complaint about the old switches, rather my point is that if you liked the old ones, these are even better. They feel like they'll hold up to more abuse. The LED surrounds are also much brighter and easier to see.

 

I don't have a 500 here to compare patches to at the moment, hence why I asked if anyone would be willing to give the patches a try. It would seem that while there is a DSP upgrade, it's not quite as much as some were hoping for. There were a lot of people claiming twice the DSP. I don't think that's true.


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#5 GTLazer

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:41 AM

Surely it must be possible to hit the HD500 DSP limit on a single path with no more than 4 effects, is it not?

 

If we can find a way of doing that, for example a Bogner with 4 reverbs or 4 smart harmonies or something, then we should be able to just about repeat the same pattern on a 500x on twin paths if it really has double the DSP.

 

See what I mean?


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#6 talwilkins

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:28 AM

It's hard to now exactly but it looks to me there is about 20 - 25% more headroom in the 5oox. They say they can put 5 '63 spring reverbs, a plate reverb, a V Tron in the 500X. At that point it won't even accept a volume pedal so it's pretty much maxed out.

I tried it on a 500 and found I could get the same result adding the volume pedal with 4 '63 spring reverbs. The estimation that the '63 spring reverbe uses about 20 - 25% DSP gets me to my conclusion.

I really think the 500X is more an update than an upgrade. It's a continuation of the 500 with a bit better specs, hence the name (it's still a 500). I don't think this is bad since it also sells at the same price as the 500, which to me is also a sign that it is essentially an update.It does mean L6 will be supporting the HD line for the time to come.

I also feel that there is a chance there could be updates on the 500X that won't go to the 500 because of the different patch-file extensions. This seems to point to a future incompatibility between them (they seem to be compatible at the moment). 

It could be that the 500X will at some point get amps, effects or features the 500 won't get. Nobody knows the memory limit in these things. Maybe the memory of the 500 is now about filled up and can't get many more amps and effects. It could be that they also extend the memory of the 500X in order to be able to give us more HD amps.

Anyways these are just my speculations, nothing I got from the rumor mill.


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#7 GTLazer

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:47 AM

If it did become a memory issue, I don't suppose it would be a huge leap in terms of software to be able to choose a list of amps/effects from HD Edit.

 

For example, memory capacity might allow 30 amps from a list of 40, so you can just choose the stuff you like and remove the stuff you don't, just like when your iTunes library is bigger than your iPod (other mp3 players are available).


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#8 talwilkins

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:15 AM

I'm not sure it works that way with the POD. it would probably mean reflashing the whole thing with a custom flashfile and might not be such a good idea.

It would be a major software change, a totally different concept. Of course I could be wrong. :)

If they do release more amps to the 500X that would make it more appealing. Otherwise many people would just as well get the 500 for a lower price (they must drop the price on the 500 now). Unless they stop selling the 500 altogether of course.

I still have the feeling L6 will have some nice updates in the future that might not apply for the 500. which is not saying they won't deliver anymore updates to the 500. Just maybe a bit different ones.


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#9 GTLazer

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:27 AM

I think we can safely say they're replacing the 500. Once the existing stock is gone, that'll be it, otherwise they'd be crowding their own market place.


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#10 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

Wait, seriously, you can hit the DSP limit on the X that easily?

 

What a total joke.


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#11 stumblinman

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:16 AM

The Anderton's video had the L6 rep saying the X was a replacement, not an addition to the HD line.
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#12 Guitarmaniac64

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:46 PM

So the hype "double processing power" was just a hype?

This is more like upgrading memory sticks on a pc from something like 4 gb to say 6 gb..
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#13 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

Line6 needs to provide actual evidence that it is in fact DOUBLE the processing power or they are in some deep lollipop with regards to false advertising...

EDIT: Nevermind, remembered a leaked unofficial ad as official.
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#14 TheRealZap

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:30 PM

it wasn't even hype... it was a leaked ad that was incorrect.

 

and your analogy is off...

more like putting a 3.6ghz cpu to replace a 3.0ghz (about 20% improvement if what i'm hearing is correct)

So the hype "double processing power" was just a hype?

This is more like upgrading memory sticks on a pc from something like 4 gb to say 6 gb..


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#15 TheRealZap

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:31 PM

they never claimed it was.... so they are not likely to give you any evidence.

 

Line6 needs to provide actual evidence that it is in fact DOUBLE the processing power or they are in some deep lollipop with regards to false advertising...


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#16 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

they never claimed it was.... so they are not likely to give you any evidence.

 

Ah, never mind then. I remembered that leaked ad as if it was official. I retract my previous statement.


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#17 dennisrford

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:29 PM

it wasn't even hype... it was a leaked ad that was incorrect.

 

and your analogy is off...

more like putting a 3.6ghz cpu to replace a 3.0ghz (about 20% improvement if what i'm hearing is correct)

Here's a link to the relevant Analog Devices page:

 

http://www.analog.co...HARC_Processors

 

I've read that the HD 500 has a SHARC ADSP-21369 @333MHz.  The same proc now shows a clock speed of 400MHz.  A 20% increase.

Maybe that's the whole story.


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#18 marcwormjim

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:03 PM

I cancelled my order of the HD500x. In a world where anyone can supplement their HD500's processing power by 100% through buying another used 500 on ebay, I consider it a failure on Line 6's part to not have matched that figure in the 500x. 

 

I get that "It isn't an upgrade - It's a replacement." But a "bait-and-switch" is more accurate.


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#19 GTLazer

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:21 AM

I think, perhaps, we need to keep a bit of perspective here.

 

Us 500 owners aren't the target market for the 500x; it's just a way of freshening things up for new customers and getting another couple of years out of technology they've already covered their R&D costs on.

 

More is more, at the end of the day; whether it's 20% more or 100% more is neither here nor there if you weren't already a 500 owner.


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#20 SiCantwell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:25 AM

I also feel that there is a chance there could be updates on the 500X that won't go to the 500 because of the different patch-file extensions. This seems to point to a future incompatibility between them (they seem to be compatible at the moment). 
.


Will 500X users be able to import their saved presets from the 500?
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