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My Two Rock/Fender clean tone, PRESET+IR


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#1 JazzInc

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 01:38 AM

Ok, I've been REALLY enjoying Helix and after two days with it, I have found some killer tones. I do not regret selling my Axe. I want to share with you my favourite Fender/Two Rock clean I've made. A good IR really makes a lot of difference. So if you load this preset. Please make sure you also download the IR below and put it in position 15 of your IR presets.

Get a fender strat and tell me what you think!! Sounds great on my Focal professional monitors. Right click and download as:

NOTE ON SOME COMPUTERS, IT WILL SAVE THE PRESET AS .HLX.TXT. JUST DELETE THE .TXT PART AND YOU'RE DONE

http://www.familieas...eRevTwoRock.hlx

http://www.familieas...2M-R121-U67.wav


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#2 JazzInc

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 03:20 AM

There is no MP3 attached. That WAV file is the impulse response file you need to make the patchwork. Use the Helix software application to upload the patch in the impulse response file, make sure you put it in position 15.
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#3 JazzInc

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:21 AM

If you want more air and room, try this IR:


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#4 deltafit

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:23 AM

The link doesn't work dude


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#5 phil_m

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 05:16 AM

The link doesn't work dude

They aren't soundclips. One's a patch for the Helix, and the other is an IR file.


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#6 harpel

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 05:49 AM

sounds amazing, thanx  :)


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#7 cacibi

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 06:07 AM

When I dowloaded the Preset it had both a .hlx and .txt extension; I haven't tried it yet but - assume I need to clear the extra file extension.


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#8 JazzInc

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 06:10 AM

For those of you who want to hear it: I recorded the my new Variax Standard with upgraded Don Mare SuperSport pickups into the Helix (VDI input) using this patch with the last of the IRs I posted straight into Logic Pro on my Macbook. No editing! I have posted both the soundcloud and the original uncompressed wav. During the take, I switch from the magnetic Don Mare pickups to the Variax Firebird neck humbucker and Variax Les Paul Humbucker back to magnetics. I think it all sounds very impressive even though the playing is sloppy. This thing is addictive like nothing else was for me before. And I never got such a convincing recording of my electric guitar and amp without actually micing up my best Two Rock. Never got this far with my AxeFx2. 

 

I look forward to your feedback. Please keep in mind these are raw direct recordings with no post processing or EQing like you would do on an actual recording. 

 

https://soundcloud.c...variax-standard

http://www.familieas...ockCleanish.wav

 

And just for fun, here is a rough, unedited, un-eqed recording of my Variax Standard through VDI into my Line 6 Helix, straight into Logic Pro, no effects, no editing. I used a Taylor 314e Impulse Response that is floating around the net:

 

https://soundcloud.c...-taylor314ce-ir

http://www.familieas...lixAcoustic.wav


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#9 JazzInc

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:18 AM

Here is the link to the taylor IR.
https://drive.google...FJLQ241WTg/view
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#10 oehman

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:08 AM

Nice tone & playing!
What model did you use in the Variax for the Taylor IR?
If you use a Variax acoustic, doesn't it interfere with the Taylor IR?
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#11 bloodychoir

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 02:21 PM

I think that's what I'm hearing too, it sounds like the Variax acoustic with another layer of "body". That element of modelling on the Variax acoustics is very well done but it's where you also really hear the digital wok being done and I think within this IR it's exaggerated. Thanks very much for the demos! Excellent and revealing.
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#12 lance135

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 04:31 PM

Listened to the demo of the Variax and Fender/Two Rock patch, and I think it sounds both real and good. Thank you for posting.


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#13 cacibi

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 10:32 AM

Jazzinc- I'd really be interested to now where you got the IR you used in your preset.  Thanks!


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#14 JazzInc

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 01:56 AM

Jazzinc- I'd really be interested to now where you got the IR you used in your preset. Thanks!


Thanks. I actually made it myself mixing a bunch of IRs from redwirez. My favorite is the last one I posted with a bit of room mic mixed in. Feels very much like an amp in the room and works on many patches
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#15 amsdenj

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:41 AM

Jazzing, what is the purpose of the Studio Tube Pre amp model just before the US Deluxe Vib amp? Seems the preamp is running flat with no can, and I can't hear much difference with it on or off.

 

I also found it interesting that you put the mod, delay and reverb effects between the amp and speaker IR - meaning these are processed through the speaker instead of being applied after the speaker. I suppose the difference would be subtle, but do you have any thoughts on the pros and cons of putting effects before or after the speaker. Clearly this is very different than before or after the amp itself unless the amp is being run quite clean.

 

I'm experimenting with using a footswitch to change the voicing of the Fender amp to go from clean to a little dirty. I find Fender amps don't distort well, and it seems its because they have too much bass before the distortion creating a muddy/ratty intermodulation distortion that isn't pleasant. As the Drive goes up on these amps, the bass needs to go down. But just turning the bass doesn't seem to clean up the distortion they way I like. But referencing against S-Gear (which to me is the gold standard of digital amp design), I found that cutting the bass with a low cut filter somewhere around 140 to 200 Hz does wonders to clean up the Fender distortion. I'm creating a patch that maps my Drive footswitch to change the amp Dive control, and a Low and Hi Cut EQ to toggle the low cut between two values. Higher gain has higher low cut, lower gain is flat since the amp can handle the bass.

 

S-Gear uses channel and bass, mid and treble voicing switches to significantly change the voicing of the amp as distortion stages are added. I keeps the amp articulate and musical as distortion is increased. Helix can mimic that with EQ to simulate voicing changes linked to the Gain control for the amp.


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#16 cacibi

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 09:38 AM

Thanks. I actually made it myself mixing a bunch of IRs from redwirez. My favorite is the last one I posted with a bit of room mic mixed in. Feels very much like an amp in the room and works on many patches

 

Did you use the Redwirez mixIR2 software to do that?


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#17 JazzInc

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 10:24 AM

Actually, on my system there is a clear difference of adding the studio preamp, giving it a richer, thicker and smoother tone. However, I have found the putting it right after the amp sounds even better, and it takes some of the fizz away when you do any type of overdrive or pedals.

As for putting any time based pedals after the amp, but before the speaker, that's almost the same as putting it in the effects loop of an amp. Putting these sort of things before the amp and also before something like a tube screamer affects the way the tube screamer and amp work together

Did you use the Redwirez mixIR2 software to do that?

Yes!
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#18 amsdenj

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 01:16 PM

Thanks. I actually made it myself mixing a bunch of IRs from redwirez. My favorite is the last one I posted with a bit of room mic mixed in. Feels very much like an amp in the room and works on many patches

 

Well, your cabinet model has made it into my goto electric guitar sound - I had already chosen the same amp: US Deluxe Vib. That cabinet model takes away the overly bright fizz of the amp, fattens and warms up the tone nicely. Works great for Strat and Les Paul. Thanks for the excellent contribution.

 

Now I'd like to understand a bit better how to use the acoustic models. My understanding is that if we:

  1. take an impulse response from our acoustic guitars through the piezo pickup
  2. at the same time take another impulse response from a well placed mic on the same guitar
  3. somehow take the difference of these two impulse responses to
  4. create an impulse response that can be loaded into Helix that will translate the piezo tone to more closely match the acoustic tone of the instrument.

I know how to get the impulse response by using a rod to tap the body. I can use Logic Pro X's impulse utility program to capture the two impulse responses, but I don't know how to take their difference to create the translation IR. Anyone know how to do that?

 

I have a Variax 700 Acoustic that I really like. And it works well with Helix, it just needs a 6dB cut at 3.6kHz to warm it up. But I'd love to use a real acoustic, or get a closer representation of my mandolin which has a K&K pickup. Getting this to work would really increase the value of Helix.


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#19 cacibi

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 01:47 PM

I'll start by saying thanks for sharing that IR and for your responses.  That's the best the Helix has sounded so far (using your IR).

 

I downloaded the Redwirez software and I'm just wondering if you can talk about your workflow creating the mixed IR.  I can only use it in Garageband so I'm assuming you just use the amp model of choice, dry into the DAW track and then model the combined IR from there; but just kind of wondering how you setup up that DAW signal path for best results.  I don't want to get too much into cabinet choices, distances, combinations - unless you'd really like to share :-)  Seems like there is some good starting information in the app manual.

 

Many thanks


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#20 jaminjimlp

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 04:36 PM

I'll start by saying thanks for sharing that IR and for your responses.  That's the best the Helix has sounded so far (using your IR).
 
I downloaded the Redwirez software and I'm just wondering if you can talk about your workflow creating the mixed IR.  I can only use it in Garageband so I'm assuming you just use the amp model of choice, dry into the DAW track and then model the combined IR from there; but just kind of wondering how you setup up that DAW signal path for best results.  I don't want to get too much into cabinet choices, distances, combinations - unless you'd really like to share :-)  Seems like there is some good starting information in the app manual.
 
Many thanks


I'm not trying to hijack this thread I want to share some information about what you asked that may be helpful to you for mixing IR's and manipulating them in a DAW.... There's a fellow on another forum that helped me a lot with doing this and he does some things different I will post a link to one of his IR's he made and find where he explained what exactly he does and give link for it too.

http://line6.com/sup...with-the-helix/


Here is a thread with some IR's TLTD made and some explanation http://www.elevenrac...44389#Post44389
Can't find the other thread so I pm'd him.
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#21 cacibi

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 05:33 PM

Thanks for sharing. My only question, on that first thread you posted, is the sample rate. He describes setting it up as 24bit, 44.1k - but the Helix manual states 48k
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#22 jaminjimlp

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:03 PM

Yeah that was written for the EPSI which 24/44 is the maximum quality wav file it will run successfully I used ownhammer 96K files on the helix so whatever your DAW can do will work for you just really need to start out with an IR that is of the quality that you need I would not save it in a higher quality format bit lower I think would be acceptable. When I get a chance I will add it, thanks for pointing it out.
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#23 JazzInc

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 11:06 PM

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. I am glad to know that that IR translates well to other systems as well. Here are some tips to get you started into making your own. First off, you can read this manual on how to use the mixIR2 plugin: http://redwirez.com/...2UsersGuide.pdf

I used it with logic Pro and just started it as a plug-in on the channel strip. I never actually tested them out playing through the mixIR plugin in logic. I just used the export function on the mixIR2 plugin to create a dozen or so IRs and then uploaded them to helix so I could test them live while playing, using foot editing which is brilliant! Just hold the mode button for two seconds, select the IR and use the value plus in value minus buttons to switch through IRs while playing.

So get a bunch of your favorite speaker selections and favorite microphone selections and first, just try out unmixed IRs, to see how you like that sound. I made notes describing them as sounding mid-rangy or scooped or fizzy, etc. That way, when you start mixing them you know which ones work and which ones don't. And even which ones would combine well, by combining a mid range speaker IR with a scooped one.

In real life I would also combined speakers that match well, because there's no one guitar speaker that does it all. I really liked the Weber blue, the basket weave G 12 M 25, the Celestion blue, and the EVM 12.

As for microphones, to me, it always came down to the Royer R121 and the Neumann U67. Funny, because usually I also like the staple shure SM 57, but with these IRs, I didn't like it in any speaker combination.

Now to narrow down mic placement, most mics sound best at the CapEdge. Usually, you would start at a distance of one or 2 inches, but I have found that for my two mics of choice, they both sounded best at 0 inches. Nice and thick and no fizz. The Royer, being a ribbon mic should be placed at the cap, not the cap edge.

So now, you can discard 95% of the files that come with red wires. Just go to 24 bit 48 kHz, select the speakers you want to hear, and take these two mics/positions. That way you can just drive a lot of IRS without having to test all those positions, and distances.

When it comes to mixing, I mix 40% for both mics and then add 20% room mic of the favorite of those two speakers you're mixing.

Finally go to the redwirez EQ and add an 80hz high pass. Then you're done!!
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#24 cacibi

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 03:37 AM

Wow - thanks very much for that info.  I have to say - your ears and mine are on the same page with regard to mic selections, position and distance.


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#25 JazzInc

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 07:03 AM

You are very welcome! I am away for a trip this week, but I will be sharing some of my other patches as well next week after that. So, did you test drive a couple of redwirez then?
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#26 cacibi

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 07:09 AM

I have, have the Thiele with EV-12L from Ownhammer and a bunch from Redwirez.  I think I have a good selection now to start mixing.  Just need to solve a small DAW problem and then should be good to go.


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#27 JazzInc

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

I Would love to hear your best mix!

If anyone has a good IR of the scumback Scumnico I'd love to try it
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#28 cacibi

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 08:36 PM

Jazzinc - one follow up question. Are there any guidelines for the IR length? The MixIR2 manual talks about IR length for Fractal but that's kind of it.  I don't even know what the max length is for Helix - or if there is one, or if the IR is over - if it just truncates the wav file to the max length. I notice the Ownhammer IR's I have come in 200 or 500ms and I'm pretty sure I have loaded some of the 500ms IR's onto my Helix.  No issues that I noticed but again - maybe it just cuts them off at an earlier time.

 

Thanks


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#29 JazzInc

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 09:54 PM

You do not have to worry about the length of the IR. Both the Axe FX 2 and the helix truncate the responses at 2048 samples, which translates to 42 ms
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#30 cacibi

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 10:47 AM

Alright - I made my first combination IR today and thought I would just start off by doing the same cabinet with multiple microphones to see if I could give myself some better options for the stock cabinets.  In other words - trying to work up a better Twin cabinet for the Twin, Bassman cabinet for the Bassman...etc.  Before I get into combining cabs too much.

 

Anyway - hope to load it up tonight and give it a shot.  I'll post it if it's any good.


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#31 JazzInc

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 10:57 AM

Very cool! Enjoy the trip! Btw make sure you get the placement and distance right. Makes a lot of difference
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#32 diggerbarnz

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 03:45 PM

Ok, I've been REALLY enjoying Helix and after two days with it, I have found some killer tones. I do not regret selling my Axe. I want to share with you my favourite Fender/Two Rock clean I've made. A good IR really makes a lot of difference. So if you load this preset. Please make sure you also download the IR below and put it in position 15 of your IR presets.

Get a fender strat and tell me what you think!! Sounds great on my Focal professional monitors. Right click and download as:

NOTE ON SOME COMPUTERS, IT WILL SAVE THE PRESET AS .HLX.TXT. JUST DELETE THE .TXT PART AND YOU'RE DONE

http://www.familieas...eRevTwoRock.hlx

http://www.familieas...2M-R121-U67.wav

link for preset doesn't work


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#33 diggerbarnz

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 03:01 PM

haha - helps when I read...right click & save as...my bad


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#34 Bangha

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 12:29 AM

Lovely job JazzInc!


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#35 Dshow

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:38 PM

Thanks for the patch. I've made some adjustements to fit my setup (Playing with headphones) and chaned the IR - sounds great to me.


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#36 amsdenj

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 02:56 PM

Attached here.

Attached File  JOOSTALNICO-G12M-R121-U67.wav   8.09KB   215 downloads

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#37 zooey

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 03:49 PM

Thanks Jim.

 

Is this the same preset as the one in the Ultimate John Mayer preset thread? Or if not, do they both use the same IR? Or if not, do you have the IR that goes with the John Mayer one?

 

Thanks again.


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#38 JazzInc

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 11:52 PM

Thanks Jim.

 

Is this the same preset as the one in the Ultimate John Mayer preset thread? Or if not, do they both use the same IR? Or if not, do you have the IR that goes with the John Mayer one?

 

Thanks again.

 

Could you guys try these links? Here are all my presets. Mostly from a few months ago:

https://www.dropbox....sYSmU4-WXa?dl=0

 

Here are all my (custom) IRs to try. Many subtle variations to dial in a tone:

https://www.dropbox....-ByPGdFDfa?dl=0

 

 

Try the SRV and Fender Twin tones for the Mayer cleans


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#39 victorloher

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 04:33 PM

Thanks JazzInc.  I will give them a listen.  Thanks for sharing.

 

Vic


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#40 inveigle

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 08:10 AM

 

Could you guys try these links? Here are all my presets. Mostly from a few months ago:

https://www.dropbox....sYSmU4-WXa?dl=0

 

Here are all my (custom) IRs to try. Many subtle variations to dial in a tone:

https://www.dropbox....-ByPGdFDfa?dl=0

 

 

 

How will I know what IR to use with what preset? 


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