MartinDorr

The downloadable DT MIDI implementation guide might help too if you are trying to understand what the editors do or if you want to program your own MIDI controller.

Thanks for pulling this info in and it makes total sense that even in LVM the power amp is used (otherwise there would be nothing coming out of the speaker). I have more doubts about your second sentence 'It does not reduce the overall volume of the amp'. The DTs may still get pretty loud if you push them with LVM, but not as loud as if LVM is just off due to the scaled Master Volume. Appreciate the FAQ extract. I really should reread all the info available from Line 6.

That's interresting, actually quite unexpected, and makes me wonder how the transformer tap emulating a power amp really works.

I have read (and I think it makes sense to believe) that attenuators distort post preamp effects like delay, chorous and reverb. Depending on how (much) you use such effects you may be happy or can't stand it. As usual ... your milage varies based on what you do and want ... The latest HD update supporting Line 6 Link output signal attenuation via Master Volume may do the trick for you (while running the DT power amp at high volume settings). Obviously that's also not quite what a loud setup (when listened to or mic-ed) would produce. I think we can all agree that even if the amp would act the same the speakers would not because they simple do not move as much air and the electrical amp/speaker circuitry/connection has non-linear behavior. Despite of all that I think the HD/DT-25 is a good fit to what the original poster wants to do. Unless you already have both an HD and a DT and are unhappy I would not buy more equipment yet and simply try and see whether you can get happy with the smallest setup (and maximum sanity) possible. I can't judge whether the flexibility of the DT would be wasted for you ... I just love its sound (and I play mostly clean).

I am sure you are aware of using USB and stay in digital domain. What makes yo prefer to use analog in on the sound? Just curious?

In my experience the 'POD L6 to DT' scenario is pretty much "connect and forget". I would not blame L6 for allowing you to divert from the recommendations (use preamps in HD), default behavior (switch to an HD output mode that matches your DT), or the chosen factory defined preamps with cab sim enabled in the DT (if you do not use an amp in HD). It's all up to the user. You can take the 'use the default/recommended' route or mess with it as much as you like.

I would be interested where you read or heard that info. Can yo recall?

No real experience, just some recollection reading that the DT XLR out need to be treated like a MIC, i.e., the XLR on your L3m may not have the right input and is expecting a line level signal from a mixer. Just a thought.

I believe recent JTV updates may have removed the ability to select both factory and user modified models. Whether both are avalable may depend on the JTV FW one is running. If I remember right the change may have occurred when the capability to control HD parameters with the JTV tone control knob was added. I may be totally wrong though ;-( ...

It has little to do with likely AMPLIFi user's ears or taste but simply whether the featureset fits their bill. It's not for me (maybe yet) but I am pretty convinced it's attractive for many (including users that don't play guitar). Whether it catches more or less fire will drive whether we will see expanded versions that extend the target market. All new product lines are test baloons and geared to at least recoup a portion of the investment in case it turns into a failure. In my opinion this new concept is too far off the traditional advanced hobby, semi-pro, or similar needs driven user to support higher end features (and cost). If it finds solid footing in the lower end of the market, Line 6 can (and most likely will) expand whereever the money waves.

Good question. It seems that there are 4 presets on board and if you need more they may need to be loaded by the iOS app.

Right, but I think it is reasonable to assume that HD X FW updates for pre-AMPLIFi products will also be available for the non-X models because the non-X and X HW is so similar and it would 'cheap' for Line 6 to keep many users happy and motivated to buy a much better product later. On the other hand if they would ever do an AMPLIFi HD (X) with additional HD amps or similar improvements, I doubt those new features would necessarily also become available on existing HD / HD X products. But that's all just speculation. It's pretty clear from the feature set and marketing material that the current AMPLIFi products do not even attempt to cater to the needs of existing HD product users. And they may never ...

Just be happy that they did not replace the HD line of products (yet) and there is hope for a few more updates or the AMPLIFi HD with a Variax input, 1 or 2 effects loops, and a PA/Line 6 Link out ... ;-)

I have not done this, but the setup would be as if you have 2 totally separate signal paths through the Pod, i.e., guitar on input 1, mic on input 2, different effects/amps on path A for guitar and whatever you want to do with the Mic on path B, mixer panned hard left and right, etc. so that each one of the 2 stereo sub-channels has only the signal and processing of the guitar and the Mic. On USB you'd see the same: the guitar on 1 side and the Mic recording on the other. Your DAW will probably allow to treat each one as a single Mono input for recording on 2 mono tracks. I would not jump on my info and wait a little. There are probably later responses coming from people who have actually done this or something similar. Martin

Good advice on a couple things to double check, but I can't get to that for a while. Here is my experience to get you a bit more background (not intended to prove anything): In a nut shell I measured the output level behavior to study Drive and Channel Volume interaction for all preamp models, the Mid Focus amd Studio EQ, and a couple compressors and over drive blocks. What I think I found is that for all those blocks the input to output attenuation for any given setting is very consistent for any input and output peak levels as long as those (both) stay below -12dBFS. For example, if a given preamp setting causes a 10dB attenuation, the preamp model will do this independent from whether the input signal is -28dB or -22dB. BUT, it will do less and less if say the input level is -20, -18, or -16dB, and so on because the resulting output exceeds -12dBFS. If any clean output increasing setting is engaged so that the output peaks exceeds the -12dBFS limit the resulting peak output signal attenuation slowly starts to get reduced (relative to the input peaks) and RMS level increases (I'd guess due do extra harmonics of compression and later distortion). For the first couple dBs the effect is very slight in numbers but usually around -6dBFS there is a clear effect on the sound that most people will be able to hear (trained or not). I am not arguing that I have the full picture or that I am sure my meaurements are truly accurate. I used a looping sound sample from a Variax and measured via USB, i.e., no DA conversion in the HD involved. All dials as far as I can tell are set to 0dB attenuation in drivers and DAW. I used an Izotope Ozone 4 plugin and it reports peak and RMS dB in 0.1 increments down to -30dBFS and counts every single event of clipping, but these effects occur way before any clipping is reported. As I said in my post, the only model that seemed to break from that behavior was the mixer. I did not detect any compression or clipping untill its attenuation setting actually cause the output signal to clip. Appreciate your constructive feedback. It never hurts to review these kind of observations. There are just too many things that can go wrong or stay unnoticed. Hope I can reproduce and document a repeatable test case for anyone interested to try. Martin

I believe the guidance above is very important to keep in mind and I would in fact recommend a more conservative position. Based on my own measuring and sound checks I believe no peak signal level between HD models should ever exceed -12dBFS unless you are intentionally looking for some soft compression for those peaks that exceed the -12dBFS level. I can't be sure that this is true for all models but all the ones I measure seem to behave like that (compressors seem to be a bit more forgiving and additional compression kicks in for peaks above -8dBFS). The only exception I see so far seems to be the mixer and possibly the volume pedal (I did not measure the latter, it just sounds like it), i.e., if you put the mixer at the very end of the model chain you can push the peaks all the way close to 0dBFS w/o getting compression or distortion (at least not when measured via USB). In regard to the quoted post's advised peaks I think you're really ok as long as you can live with a little soft compression/clipping and I suspect the effect of any extra 3 dB peak won't be noticable by ear and only show up in high resolution measurements. Violating the guidance won't immediately result in digital clipping noise you can immediately hear unless you are really pushing into the -3dBFS range. But why live on the edge and get unintended soft compression/clipping that does not come from the modelled gear but internal HD signal level limits?

Life happens ... and is futile. Enjoy the ride

Have similar experience as 'innovine' although I think there is a bit more going on. Despite that general position, I think the Master Volume is a great new feature addition as it replaces all my trailing volume pedals that allow me to adjust easily to venue volume needs. Will scratch my plan to get an external pedal for dynamic volume or Wah (save $50 or more) and one gets essentially another effect slot if you used the Volume pedal like I did. That said I think there is a bit of a tone change when trading off Channel Volume with Master Volume. I did not expect that as I also thought Channel Volume does the same as Master Volume except on a different point in the signal chain after the amp. My current best guess is that Channel Volume does not act on the output of the preamp amp model but on the input to the preamp, i.e., it acts like a clean boost, and thus Channel Volume and Master Volume do not have the same effect even if there are no post amp effects (which would throw another wrench into the picture). Time for more experimentation. By the way, I also suspect that the preamp Drive setting is made available to the DT power amps and it impacts output volume on the DT. You can try this out by using USB to perfectly balance the preamp output signal for a number of same high gain amp type/tube/mode settings and then check volume when played through the DT. You will find some significant volume differences although the visible DT settings will not change at all and the input signal coming out of the different preamps is pretty much the same (use high resolution RMS and not peak metering to blance volume). Martin

It's not my favorite but I think support for Master Volume to attenuate output is highly underated and VERY useful to any DT or power Amp user. For me it essentially opened up another effect slot and freed the pedal for dynamic volume changes or as a wah pedal. Before I had a trailing volume pedal whenever possible to adjust tone volume to venue (basically set once during sound check). Now the Master Volume does that job and I no longer have to mess with adjusting tones, the guitar, or the DT when I need the pedal for dynamic tone shaping. It basically removed my long pushed out need to buy an extra pedal, i.e., saved me $50 or more and a bunch of adjustment hassle that occasionally goes wrong. Martin

Not saying you don't need the HD Pro, but most things including recording and home playing can be done with an HD500X (and cheaper ;-). I think as long as you just record with an HD device (Pro or 500) the builtin USB is just fine. If you think about recording multiple tracks at the same time combining a Pod with other sources you will probably need a suitable interface because many SW packages can really only handle 1 device for multi-track recording. But you can always add that later. I'd just carefully check whether the extra Pro features are really needed because the price dfference could pay for a fair bit of other things you may want. Enjoy

Interesting question and nice link. Never though of looking for stuff like that. It's always worth browsing here ;-)

The Furman AC-215A (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003PJ6NPO/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for about $125.- on Amazon works perfectly fine for me to drive both a DT25 and an HD500 and provide power isolation. I put it inside the back of my Combo.

I am a little confused about the point of your quotes (the second 2 do not apply to DT25s). I have a DT25 and there is only 1 12AX7 and it serves as a phase inverter and not as a preamp stage. I believe in the DT50 there are 2 of those tubes and one serves the same purpose while the other one is used as a boost stage in the poweramp section (the boost does not exist in the DT25 and there is no MIDI control for it either). In regard to the source of amp generated distortion you need to consider the amp type. Some get their distortion from the preamp section and others do get it from the power amp section. In other words, some will get it from the modelled preamp and others from the reamp power tube amp section. I believe Twins and Lux's get it from the preamp and they tend to sound pretty harsh when driven hard for this reason. Note, the reason is the preamp distortion and not the fact that the preamp is modeled. Haven't played much with real Fender amps, but I believe they do the same thing (modelled or not). As far as the original problem goes I think the provided advice should help pinpointing the source of the trouble. Unless grandinq hit the LVM switch by accident something seems broke.

Can you point me to your tone (someone is refering to it, but i can seem to see the file).

Nice improvement to my simple approach ;-). Will keep that in mind